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TNLib

(1,819 posts)
Sat Aug 9, 2014, 11:25 AM Aug 2014

I find it infuriating that so many conservatives blame Obama for the current Iraq crisis

These same people supported Bush and the invasion of Iraq. What did they think would happen! Now they want to put the blame on Obama. I find it absolutely infuriating.

Children are getting their heads cut off and they want to blame the president. I wish these people would look in the mirror and face their own fucking ignorance.

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I find it infuriating that so many conservatives blame Obama for the current Iraq crisis (Original Post) TNLib Aug 2014 OP
Plus our job isn't to impose or form a central government in Iraq. That's their job, responsibility. pinto Aug 2014 #1
Obama just ruined our argument against the right-wing.. politicman Aug 2014 #2
The conservatives have ruined a lot of things... ljm2002 Aug 2014 #8
agreed roscoeroscoe Aug 2014 #3
The republicans are full of it jamzrockz Aug 2014 #4
It's to be expected. LuvNewcastle Aug 2014 #5
i find it infuriating that the media is playing the same fucking game. spanone Aug 2014 #6
Yes, they are. Igel Aug 2014 #7

pinto

(106,886 posts)
1. Plus our job isn't to impose or form a central government in Iraq. That's their job, responsibility.
Sat Aug 9, 2014, 11:42 AM
Aug 2014

Obama was clear this morning that Iraq forming an inclusive representative government was critical to an Iraqi led solution. That's the vacuum that exists, imo.

 

politicman

(710 posts)
2. Obama just ruined our argument against the right-wing..
Sat Aug 9, 2014, 11:42 AM
Aug 2014

Its pretty hard to argue against Conservatives for their opinion when the president said that American forces needed to come back home and Iraqi's needed to sort their own problems, ONLY for the president to go back on his word and use military intervention in Iraq.

Conservatives say that the president should never have brought troops homes even if the Iraqi's wanted them out, because in the right wing opinion Iraq was not capable of keeping order, AND with Obama using military intervention again to help the Iraqi government and the Kurds as well, how can one argue against their opinion.

We liberals know that Iraqi government would not sign a SOFA and so the troops all had to come back home, BUT the right-wing doesn't see it that way, they argue that the Iraqi government should not have been listened to as the Iraqi government was not yet capable of holding the territory the U.S handed it, AND with Obama giving them the ammunition for the argument by authorizing military intervention, their argument has merit.

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
8. The conservatives have ruined a lot of things...
Sat Aug 9, 2014, 01:54 PM
Aug 2014

...and Iraq is first and foremost on that list.

As for our argument against the right-wing: anything they have to say at this point is 100% irrelevant and should be discarded like the smelly, stinky garbage that it is.

The fact that you will sit here and try and defend their argument is disgusting. THEY HAVE NO LEGITIMATE ARGUMENT ON THE TOPIC OF IRAQ. NONE. ZIP. NADA.

Obama has chosen to act with both humanitarian aid and air strikes. He is keeping boots off the ground. Now I don't claim to know what the right action is here -- but NO WAY will I EVER blame Obama for this mess, nor for his measured response here.

It's not that I am enthusiastically supporting this action either. But neither is it a case where I am disappointed in his response. He is trying to respond to a situation where a whole ethnic group will be slaughtered by the ISIS/ISIL/IS/whatever-the-hell-they're-called-this-week unless WE DO SOMETHING. The Iraqi army is incapable in this instance; Turkey is unwilling. That leaves us -- to try and contain the spreading chaos that OUR COUNTRY INSTIGATED.

I'm sorry -- I can't stop shouting. Your claim that the conservatives have any legitimate argument here is truly stupid if not worse.

 

jamzrockz

(1,333 posts)
4. The republicans are full of it
Sat Aug 9, 2014, 11:50 AM
Aug 2014

The biggest reason the middle east is destabilized is because of the pro democracy supporting we encouraged during the so called Arab spring and the republicans supported Obama every step of the way. If anything, they wanted him to meddle more to bomb more and to invade. Libya right now is a shit country that has jihadists fighting in the streets of Tripoli and Bush never bombed it. These jihadists were emboldend because of the US support of their fights to remove dictators in those countries sorta like the same thing that happened in Iraq with regime change.

But yes, Obama only have himself to blame for going along with the neocons in Washington. His anti war stance was a big factor in his first election and if he had stuck to that, all this wouldn't have happened.

LuvNewcastle

(16,858 posts)
5. It's to be expected.
Sat Aug 9, 2014, 12:01 PM
Aug 2014

Never let a good tragedy go to waste. We know whose fault it is, but they have to give the public an alternative view that benefits them in this election year. I'm not clear on what Obama's goal is, but I hope that it accomplishes something or it could really hurt us this fall.

Igel

(35,359 posts)
7. Yes, they are.
Sat Aug 9, 2014, 01:03 PM
Aug 2014

We were good at it, and now others are playing it. The scum.

Consider it blowback. If the rule is "the last person to touch it is 100% responsible for it," which was damned convenient from 2001-2008, then the rule gets less and less palatable after 1/20/2009. I mean, take the withdrawal of forces from Iraq. It was entirely Bush II's doing. He negotiated--well, his people negotiated--the agreement and he signed it. It was convenient for Obama to try to negotiate some continuing troop presence, but when he failed to push hard enough or bargain appropriately it was a good "promise kept." It was a proud moment to get the last US troops out of Iraq, and one that Obama took credit for.

Then, years later, there were complaints this had happened. Suddenly the proud claim vanished and around the edges it was "Bush's fault for signing that status of forces agreement." Now you hear both claims--people who want to give Obama credit for complying with the agreement and people who want to spare Obama any responsibility for complying with the agreement. You posture enough and you have to be Houdini to get out of the cramped space.

Since this is spill-over from Syria (which was in part spill-over from N. Africa), plus tensions because al-Maliki was demoted in importance in the "pivot to Asia" and claims that exiting Iraq was a political triumph, that particular blame-game is suddenly highly unpopular now that N. Africa, Syria, and neglecting Iraq turned out to be problematic.

But it was always a political game because accuracy and reality tends to be not quite so convenient, and it's a bad game when it's played for political game with people and countries as game pieces. It doesn't matter who plays it. Still, it was one we liked ... for a while.

Tunisia was lucky. Or, rather, had a fairly wise interim government. Tribalism started to tear the country apart, and the interim government bailed from the whole tribal-recrimination/favoritism game. It tried not to play favorites, to get past coast/inland, conservative/liberal, and tribal divisions to address perceived grievances and wrongs in an fair-minded if not perfect way. So it avoided the fate of Lebanon, Syria, Libya, and even Egypt which was less riven by differences than the media would have you believe. (In fact, in many ways, Tamarrod and many "seculars" in Egypt played the same game. Maximize blame and differences in order to divide society, solidify your own support, and thereby get power--even when it hurts the country instead of fostering it's prosperity. That's how a society dies, not how it thrives.)

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