The Ferguson "robbery" incident report has some problems.

[Moosepoop]

I know it doesn't matter whether Mike Brown stole any cigars or not, and that even if he did it doesn't justify his being killed. That is not in dispute, and not the point of this post.

He did, in fact, take some cigarillos, according to Dorian Johnson's attorney.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/ferguson-police-name-michael-brown

“We see that there’s tape, that they claim they got a tape that shows there was some sort of strong-armed robbery,” said Freeman Bosley, Johnson’s attorney. “We need to see that tape, my client did tell us and told the FBI that they went into the store. He told FBI that [Brown] did take cigarillos. He told that to the DOJ and the St. Louis County Police.”

So this post isn't arguing whether he took some cigarillos. This is about the trumping up of the allegations against him after the fact, and after his death.

The incident report contradicts itself -- it's like the officer(s) involved in writing it up were in such a rush to make the story fit the narrative, they got rather sloppy.

At the very beginning of the report, it lists the stolen property as "1.00 BOX OF SWISHER SWEETS CIGARS" with a total value of $48.99. It also indicates that the stolen property has not been recovered. (Did they not recover the cigars at the scene of the shooting?)

Having spent years working in a store that sells most of the Swisher line of products, I'm familiar with their items. First, it wasn't "cigars" that were taken, it was "cigarillos." A small difference, perhaps, but a police report should be accurate as to the item(s) taken. Even though "cigars" may have been the initial impression, a bit of follow-up as to the exact merchandise would have been called for. They came up with a price -- why not the actual name of the item?
Anyway, a box of Swisher Sweets cigarillos retailing for $48.99 would most certainly have been this -- a 50 ct. box (or 60 ct. if it were one of the special buy boxes):



The cigarillos are 4 7/8 inches long, so adding for the thickness of the container itself, the box is just over 5" long, slightly less wide, and a couple of inches deep. This is the box seen in the store video being handed from Mike Brown to Dorian Johnson, and then placed by Johnson back onto the counter.

When Mike Brown pulls away from the counter with objects in his hands, this box is one of them, but he puts it back onto the counter. He drops some things still in his hands, bends down and picks them up, and transfers those in his left hand to his right, so that all of them are in his right hand.

The items in his hand are not large count boxes -- they are longer, narrower, and thinner than the boxed cigarillos. They slide around in his hands and end up sticking out of each side of his right hand. The video is grainy, but I believe that what is in his hand are these:



Resealable foil pouches containg 2 cigarillos each, retailing anywhere from 99 cents to $1.29, depending on the preprinted pricing from the manufacturer. The cigarillos are the same 4 7/8" long, but the pouches they are in are considerably longer/taller than the 50-60 ct. box. There's a lot of room at each end, at the top for the resealable "zipper" and at the bottom for the Surgeon General's warning in black text on white background. These are probably more like 6-7" long, going by memory, though I can't say for certain as I no longer work at the store and can't measure them.

Mike Brown has his encounter with the employee, and leaves with a handful of these pouches, I believe. He certainly did NOT have a 50 ct. box in his hand. He had smaller, more individually packaged items, whether they were the Swisher foil pouches or something else. You can see him in the video with the box in his hands, but then putting it back on the counter before bending to pick up the smaller items that he leaves with.

So... in the incident report, it first says that the stolen property is a box worth $48.99. But later in the report, when an officer is detailing what he was told by the employees, he relates the story that Dorian Johnson put the box back on the counter, then Mike Brown "reached across the counter and grabbed numerous packs of Swisher Sweets and turned to leave the store." It goes into the altercation with the employee at the door, and then states that Brown "exited with the cigars."

OK... so, now the police officer himself has typed out that the box was put on the counter, and that "numerous packs" of Swisher Sweets are what was taken. Then WHY is the stolen property still listed as a BOX worth $48.99?

When he gets to detailing what the video supposedly shows, the officer typing that up states that after Johnson put the box back onto the counter, "Brown turns away from the counter with another box of Swisher Sweet cigars and walks towards the exit door." And then "Brown, still holding a box [of] Swisher Sweets in his hand..."



Now, wait a minute. Did the police report not already say that it was "packs" that were taken, while the box was returned to the counter? Then how on earth does the video show Brown with "another box" rather than the "packs"? Well, it doesn't. It clearly shows individual packs or pouches in his hand, not a largish square box, and this was verified earlier in the report. And yet... it is now typed out that the video shows something that it does not. And the stolen property remains listed as a $48.99 box of cigars rather than a handful of 99 cent to $1.29 or so cigarillos.

There's some contradictions there. And it's obvious that the video shows packs or pouches, not a box. This is some really sloppy patching together of a story, and there doesn't seem to be much concern for facts or accuracy. Yet it was released to the press in this sorry condition.

Just thought I'd throw this out there, as it's been bugging me since the incident report and video came out, and I hadn't seen it mentioned by anyone yet.

[djean111]

1. Maybe there is some sort of dollar threshold they wanted to reach?

[JJChambers]

2. Felony theft is going to be way more than 48.99. The robbery is what makes it

a felony charge. Not the dollar amount.

[Moosepoop]

3. I don't think it was about reaching a legal threshold.

They know they can't charge him, one of them already killed him. I think it was more about making a "good" story with which to smear him as much as possible, to impugn him so as to somehow vindicate their fellow officer. Yes, he pilfered some cigarillos, and yes, he did push the employee who tried to stop him from leaving. But there's some trumping up going on, more for public opinion (future jury for the cop?) than for reaching a certain level of charge for legal means. Just the term "strong-arm robbery" is enough to color people's opinions, and "backing it up" with official-sounding incident reports and a video is just better theater, if done right. But they did a really bad job of it, IMO.

[VanillaRhapsody]

4. according to the story the friend that was with Mike told.....Mike handed him the Swisher's

before it got ugly.....

[Moosepoop]

5. He did. And the friend put the box back onto the counter.

THEN Mike grabbed the packs, and the box (or a different one).

If you watch closely, in the video you can see Mike pull back from the counter with things in his hands, and one of them is a box of Swishers, but he sets that down on the counter and bends down to pick up the packs, then goes to the door.

[easychoice]

6. Heres Mr. Brown in action.

USA today,good video:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2014/08/15/michael-brown-police-shooting-ferguson/14129809/

[WolverineDG]

38. they're moving pretty slowly

for people who allegedly stole something.

[easychoice]

40. Anything they can do to muddy the waters and "P.R."/polish up theKKKop

I didn't see anything on the video that rose to the level of a death penalty,
Besides that the cop that killed him didn't even know about it.

I live in Seattle ,We are under D.O.J. supervision here.Same bunch of Super Christian Racists,different city.

[Iggo]

7. And then Darren Wilson murdered him in the street.

[Moosepoop]

8. Indeed. n/t

[cstanleytech]

12. He hasnt been convicted yet of murder.

That aside for the moment I am wondering did the cruiser not have video camera? I mean surely that would help resolve some of the unanswered questions or did the police "lose" the video for it?

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. Ferguson has 18 cruisers, and 2 cameras provided by DOJ...the dashcams have not been installed

Ferguson PD claims installation costs $3,000 each and they don't have the funds. The dashcams (for only two of their 18 cars, mind you) collect dust in the station.

[cstanleytech]

27. How long have the cameras been gathering dust?

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. Months, at the very least

They were provided by DOJ "this year."

[cstanleytech]

32. You would think cameras would be mandatory by now for police cruisers. nt

[8 track mind]

30. Three grand to install a camera?

Horseshit. Pure 100% horseshit. That police department is spewing horseshit.

I install this stuff for a living. I can install that system myself in 5 hours, fully weatherproofed, fully functional, and ready to go in 5 hours for about $500. That's an installation that i will stand behind and i will even go so far as to wage a bet with forfeiture of six months worth of pay, that it will last and be as reliable as a claw hammer. This is an insanely anal install with absolute attention to detail. I strive for 100% reliability in our statewide radio system and the installs for all of the vehicles we use. I don't take this lightly.

$3000? No. If you are installing a light bar, console, radios, PA/Siren, Wig-Wags for the headlights (alternating headlight flashers), an electrical accessory timer (shuts the power off to the gear after two hours of the key being turned off), a cage, and a shotgun lock, well then yes. That takes a while to do, and you have to do a bit of planning so it goes smoothly. If you are working on the same type of vehicle over and over, the install time starts to get shorter.

If it takes you 3 grand to install a camera, your installers are high or incredibly stupid.

On edit: I will state that the law enforcement i work with are park rangers. Our screening process for them is very rigid. We want rangers who are people friendly. They are what i wish lawmen everywhere would be like: fair. You really, I mean REALLY have to screw up badly to get a ticket out of them. The enforcement actions they deal with are vandalizing the parks, drunk driving, and enforcement of our burn bans (no charcoal grills during the summer months. Gas grills are welcomed and encouraged).

If WE can do it on a low end, non-federal assisted state budget, they can damn sure do it on a federally assisted budget.

[alcibiades_mystery]

35. Oh, I stated the figure they mentioned because it's ridiculous

Thank you for fleshing out just how absurd their statement is!

[Iggo]

36. He may never be convicted. That doesn't change what happened.

Darren Wilson murdered Mike Brown.

[savalez]

23. Thats the real story here...

Forget the cigars or cigarillos or whatever. The thing is the kid is dead and was shot by a cop multiple times on a street full of witnesses that say his hands were up and it was cold blooded murder. WTF.

[etherealtruth]

55. That is the story that matters

[barbtries]

9. i hope the Dept of Justice is looking at the police dept

for obstruction.

[Half-Century Man]

10. As I see it, they are going for the old tried and true method.

The point isn't whether or not young Mr. Brown stole $1.00 or $100.00 of stuff. The point to make is he stole. The killing was a righteous shoot because he crossed the line. By looking at this video, everyone could tell he would just move on to bigger and more violent crimes.
Any and every minor criminal act is the foreshadowing of murders yet to come.

This is an example of white privilege as used by law enforcement. That this person is a member of those persons; worded to ward off questions and accusations of racism. Make the those criminals, not persons of African heritage.

There is a similar tactic used to vilify the poor and disenfranchised, lets call it wealth privilege as used by police. As it is applied to more than just minorities, it is harder to get away with.

[savalez]

15. Exactly

I'd add when a "blah" person does it they "all" did it. Wait until a "blah" person shoots up a movie theater or an elementary school full of kids. What can we expect then? Concentration camps?

[Half-Century Man]

19. The problem they have

is everyone is on to the Tried and True. Too many know it's bullshit.

[savalez]

20. I hope so.

[ALBliberal]

11. Chain of evidence

The problem is they shot this kid down within minutes? Of this shoplift. At their own admission not connected to killing. Left him to bleed out and die. Where are the cigars? The police killed him AND obviously are covering up. Dear Lord will they have the physical cigars that are in question at the end of the day? In a weird way the police screwups work in their favor. Tragic.

[Cha]

13. Thank you for pointing out the huge discrepancies, Moosepoop. Like the sign says..

[Half-Century Man]

21. The Fergunson police need

actual policemen, not some old school racist with a badge.

I spoke in anger. I didn't mean to stereotype people named Bubba.

[Cha]

25. Yes, you're exactly right, Half-Century Man..

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. Absolutely correct...the price tag on the report bothered me as well

Great analysis. He appears to have grabbed perhaps $6 worth of two packs.

He definitely did not walk out with a $50 box of cigars.

That will come out.

[targetpractice]

17. Aren't Swisher Sweets for rolling blunts?

Nobody I know buys them to smoke out of the package. Not that this matters, but I'm sure this contention will be made by Fox talking heads at some point.

[Moosepoop]

43. Sometimes. Not always.

Cigarillos, whether Swisher or any other brand, have been used to roll blunts. But they are also smoked by many people, young and old, out of the package as they were meant to be smoked.

Once upon a time, emptying the contents of a cigar or cigarillo was the way to acquire a cigar wrap to roll marijuana in. But nowadays there are many brands of "blunt wraps" out there which are simply the cigar wraps themselves with nothing in them, ready to go. Zig Zag was first with them, but now there are many, many brands available. Some are very inexpensive, costing less than the cigarillos as there's no tobacco in them.

Most people who want a cigar wrap now simply buy the wraps. They can be purchased singly, or in 2 and 3 packs also. Why bother with the added expense of cigarillos and the added messy step of emptying them out, when you can just buy the empty wraps themselves for less?

You're right in that the contention of Brown using the cigarillos for rolling blunts will be made in this case, in fact it already has been. I've seen it a lot in the comments to articles about the case. But it's not necessarily true.

[targetpractice]

53. I appreciate your thoughtful reply...

I went back to my only source of knowledge about this subject... He said the same as you... Also, that Swisher Sweets blunts can add a sweeter flavor to an inferior product.

I fear there will be a whole bunch of discussion about this as a red herring in this case... just like Skittles and Arizona Iced Tea were in Trayvon Martin's murder.

I hope the toxicology report does not add fuel to this fire.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

18. Nice work as it shows you just can't find competent racists anymore....

I guess because "racist" and "stupid" are synonymous.

[alcibiades_mystery]

22. He pulled a carton holding a bunch of 2 packs (2 for 99 cents) off the counter

A bunch fell on the floor.

He put the carton back on the counter and grabbed a bunch off the floor.

That's what he had in his hands - maybe 5 or 6 2 packs.

There was also a confrontation at the counter itself. Was he being ID'd for the cigarillos? We know he didn't have a driver's license, so maybe he had no ID. Is that what this whole mess is about? And worse, maybe he actually put money down on the counter and walked out with a bunch of 2 packs? Maybe the beef wasn't that he didn't pay for the cigars, but that he didn't have ID to buy them?



Did he leave money on the counter for those cigarillos?

[winter is coming]

24. Wonder why we haven't seen video from the customer-at-the-counter angle? n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. Indeed

[enigmatic]

29. Really great question

Was this about being refused the cigarillos because of no ID? And like the other poster, I wonder what the other cameras in the store caught the whole thing at different angles.

[WolverineDG]

39. He certainly was taking his time about "stealing" those things, wasn't he?

taking the time to pick them up off the floor & all.

[fishwax]

41. very leisurely

[Moosepoop]

44. You're right!

It WAS a carton of the foil packs -- I had mistaken the carton for the square box, but it was the display carton for the packs. I had to watch the video again and then go "DUH!!" I should have recognized it!! LOL Thanks for clearing that up for me -- that explains all the foil packs landing on the floor. The video is so choppy I missed that!

As to the confrontation at the counter... he did have a driver's license, but it was expired. His driver's license number is listed on the police report, along with the "expired" status, so either he had it on him that day, or the police came up with the info later and added it to the report.

Even if he had it on him at the store, he may have been refused the sale because by law it has to be with a VALID license or ID. It can't be expired, even though it still has the person's picture and age on it. I've had to refuse many a sale to young people who I couldn't be sure were old enough without ID, and whose ID then turned out to be expired. Once it's asked for, if the ID isn't produced and isn't valid, the sale cannot go through without putting the cashier and the store at legal risk. And they do conduct stings by sending young people in just to see if they can catch you at it.

Another thing about the video -- when the guys first walk in, before the cashier arrives, Brown goes straight up to the counter and puts something on it with each hand. He appears to place two things onto the counter, but they can't be seen due to the camera angle. Then he walks off for a few seconds, then goes back and waits at the counter with his hands behind his back until the cashier gets there.

I've been wondering what it was that he put there? ID and cash? Did he have his ID and money ready when he walked in, only to have to wait a minute for the cashier, who then perhaps told him no because the ID was expired?

You and I have been thinking a lot alike.

[alcibiades_mystery]

46. Not a drivers license...he had a learners permit, expired

Not surprising, as he probably got it when he was 15 or 16. He never had a drivers license.

I'm guessing this was a dispute over ID.

Might be wrong, but your post is dead on and very interesting!

[Moosepoop]

49. Learner's permit does make more sense.

I was wondering how his license was already expired at the age of 18. I was just going by the "license number" aspect of the incident report. That'll teach me to go by ANYTHING in that report!!

[alcibiades_mystery]

50. Without being too pedantic (too late, I know!) the incident report lists it as a permit under TYPE

PDF page 4: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/08/15/ferguson-police-report.pdf

Expired 9/18/2013. Technically, he was supposed to have returned it within 184 days of its expiration - one more crime for this THUG!

[Moosepoop]

52. That went right by me!

Even though it was right there, staring me in the face!! Time for bed. LOL

[ReRe]

31. I thought the same thing!

I did try to read the report all the way through (it was a mess of redactions), but I relied more on the video when it comes to what he actually had in his hand. It most certainly WAS NOT a box of anything. It looked more like potato chips or peanuts or something in a small shiny bag sticking out of both sides of his hand.

Ferguson Police Dept did this because they probably do it all the fucking time and get away with it, Mp. Bunch of numbskulls, every single one of them. Right from the top...I hope that COP goes to jail for a long time. No telling what they are going to find when they start looking through the files in that place and matching them up to court proceedings.

Thank you for bringing this up. I totally agree with your assessment!

K&R

[Z_California]

33. Not to be a Debbie Downer but...

...can we please stop talking about this? Because then it's like we're implying it matters.

Cops routinely carry out summary executions of unarmed human beings. Ferguson may be an opportunity to get some action. As long as we're giving their bullshit character assassination campaign the respect of this discussion and analysis, we're losing the war.

[Moosepoop]

45. I respectfully disagree.

Calling bullshit on the character assassination is not giving it respect.

Quietly allowing it to go unaddressed would be giving it respect that it doesn't deserve.

[MFM008]

34. having worked with a PD in my past

They are going for a maximum charge so this homicide looks more justifiable.

[indivisibleman]

37. I think this is a really great observation

This video should have never been released. It is now released and become part of the conversation. The video proves that he nor his friend took a box of Swishers that day. Further proof that this police department doesn't know what it is doing. The store called in a complaint and they are going to just believe the guy without going there and checking it out?
Then they keep referring to this as a strong arm robbery when they only have the word of the cashier as to it being a robbery. There was a dispute obviously but did the police ever go to the store, check the video, check the cash register for what was paid for the transaction, interview the cashier, etc? No. So there wasn't even a case built to justify its release.
This excuse that they had to release it is BS as it was and still is an unconfirmed complaint.
It was released for purposes of character assassination. They did much the same thing with Travon Martin. He's black, he committed a crime, he's a thug, he went for the gun, the shooter (Darren Wilson or George Zimmerman) feared for his life, the shooting was justified. It is such a sickening script.

[cleduc]

54. "The video proves that he nor his friend took a box of Swishers that day."

I do not agree.

Dorian Johnson admitted to Mike taking the cigarillos
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/darren-wilson-identified-killed-18-year-old-michael-brown-article-1.1904539

Freeman Bosley, a former St. Louis mayor and the lawyer for Brown’s friend, 22-year-old Dorian Johnson, confirmed the slain teen took the cigars.

“My client did tell us — and told the FBI — that they went into the store,” Bosley said on MSNBC. “He told the FBI that he did take cigarillos. He told that to the DOJ and the St. Louis County Police.”

Not a good thing for him if he lied to the police, DOJ and FBI.

And there's little motive for him to lie about that. He wasn't seen stealing nor assaulting the store employees.

and in this post, Dorian Johnson says when describing the event that led to the shooting:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5404451

2:40 "Mike's hands were filled with cigarillos. His hands were not free. His hands were filled"
Later on in the interview, at 5:11, during the altercation at the cruiser, Dorian says Mike passed the cigarillos ("hold these&quot he had to Dorian to free Mike's hands.

That's important because some accounts suggest the officer stopped originally because of the jaywalking but the officer figured out not long afterwards that these two may have been involved with the recent robbery of cigars. From Dorian's account, it's not unreasonable to accept the notion that the cigarillos were plainly visible.

And the police confirmed they recovered the cigarillos from that crime scene, that they alleged matched what was claimed to have been stolen. Those are likely to have Mike's fingerprints and DNA on them.

Now this is only "important" for the shooting IF Wilson claims what Chief Jaskson said - that he'd heard the radio report and saw the cigarillos in Brown's hands which caused him to back up his cruiser and reengage. If that's what happened, I don't see the Civil Rights issue prevailing in this particular case. And I don't think it and the subsequent altercation at the cruiser automatically provides Wilson with the right to blow the young man away.

[indivisibleman]

57. maybe he stole the two-pack cigarillos but

the box of swishers is clearly placed back on the counter and they walk out without them.
And now that the owner of Ferguson Market states that they never called the police to report a robbery where do you suppose they received information as to what was stolen?

[MohRokTah]

42. ALLEGED robbery.

I don't blame you for not insuring you reminded everybody these are only allegations.

The media sure as shit isn't.

[Moosepoop]

47. I DID put the word "robbery" in quotation marks.

That was my way of saying "alleged."

[MohRokTah]

51. .

[0rganism]

56. they'll polish it up in time for the trial

of that i have no doubt. i would be shocked if there were not dozens of legal professionals (including at least a few from the local DA's office) scrutinizing every aspect of this case on behalf of the FPD right now, coming up with a highly consistent cop-specific account of events that every member of the FPD will have committed to memory by this time next week. then, when the trial begins, the police will publicize the generalized version of this account, and it will stand up to any amount of mass media probing. anyone who can't remember their lines (chief Jackson comes to mind) will be strangely absent from the nightly news shows. Hell, the city of Ferguson has already hired an all-white PR squad to take care of that.

i predict an easy acquittal for Wilson, regardless of how sloppy and inconsistent the initial reports may be.