Ferguson: With So Many Guns in America, Police Are Trained to Live in Fear

[DanTex]

The fatal shooting of Michael Brown, an 18-year-old African American, by a white police officer has sparked protests and outrage in the small town of Ferguson, Missouri. It has also touched off debates throughout the United States on racial harassment by the police and the increasing militarization of ordinary law enforcement after 9/11. Those conversations are important ones for Americans to have. Lost in the discussion, however, has been the role guns played in creating the environment of hostility between police and communities like Ferguson.

The problems of racial harassment and police militarization are exacerbated by the fact that America has a heavily-armed civilian population. While there are no official totals, there are an estimated 320 million guns in the United States, approximately one per person. It is often said that America has a gun culture, one that some celebrate and others bemoan. Whatever one's personal views about guns, there is no denying their presence in every American city, from Philadelphia to Ferguson. Nor should we fail to recognize the profound impact this has on law enforcement.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/adam-winkler/ferguson-guns-america-police-fear_b_5688750.html

It's been pointed out in other threads that police shootings are very rare in other countries with sensible gun laws. They also have very few George Zimmerman type incidents, and also much lower rates of homicide and gun violence. Obviously, gun control is not the only issue here -- race has a lot to do with it. But the fact that many people are walking around with guns makes everyone more afraid, and makes shootings by both police and by civilians much more likely.

[DanTex]

3. LOL. Welcome to DU.

[MineralMan]

5. Good luck with that point of view here.

[MineralMan]

9. No, it's not all good. You're way off on the wrong track.

Seeya!

[cyberswede]

10. ...

[Orrex]

13. The sheer subtlety of your screen name is commendable.

[Xipe Totec]

2. America has a heavily-armed white civilian population

A little wrinkle in the argument there.

[DanTex]

7. Like I said, guns aren't the only issue. Obviously, race is a key here.

But there's no denying that a heavily armed population causes both civilians and police to fear that the other guy might have a gun, and be quicker to resort to lethal force.

[jwirr]

11. Yes, I don't think it was black Ameirca or any other minority group who has been pushing for the lax

gun laws we have now. That is not to deny that some black people have guns but they are not out there marching with them that I can see.

[hack89]

22. The black community has more than its fair share

judging from the incredible amounts of gun violence their communities endure on a daily basis.

[Xipe Totec]

26. Fair share? Like this?

[hack89]

27. No. Handguns mainly

and usually out of sight.

[Marr]

4. A lot of cops are, in my experience, right-wing cowards.

I've heard them justify a hell of a lot on the statement that they "felt threatened". If you scare that easily, maybe you should just fix copy machines or something.

[KeepItReal]

6. In 2013, cops in Ferguson stopped 4600 black people. Only 9 had a firearm.

That's 0.2%

Not buying that everyone has a weapon mess.

[DanTex]

12. There's no excuse for racism and police brutality.

There's also no denying that lots of people walking around with guns cause both police and other civilians to be more afraid that the other guy might be armed.

[KeepItReal]

15. Armed Caucasians get way more deference and respect from LEOs

Than my unarmed, Black, male, self.

[DanTex]

17. I agree absolutely.

But I also thing that some police officers probably fear that black males like yourself might be carrying a gun, much more so than they would in say, England, where basically nobody has a gun.

[MineralMan]

14. I don't see that in play in Ferguson at all.

What I see is racism, pure and simple. Just go see how hard it is to find a black-owned gun shop. The RKBA folks like their guns, but pretty much only in white hands.

Consider the Bundy incident. Now, there were some people with guns. They stood down law enforcement. I don't think gun ownership has anything to do with Ferguson.

[DanTex]

16. Probably not this particular incident. But the general problem of police shootings, yes.

The think about gun proliferation is that, contrary to the NRA talking point, the guns don't just stay in the hands of "good guys". The ease with which anyone can get a gun in this country means that a lot of criminals of any race are armed, much more so than in other countries.

In England, for example, most police don't even carry guns because they don't need them. In Germany, police shot something like 90 bullets during an entire year. I agree that guns did not play a direct role in this incident, but in the overall situation of police shootings, I think it is a big factor.

[MineralMan]

18. You don't see a lot of black people or other minorities

carrying firearms, especially in the southern states. Not tolerated by police. The Ferguson cops weren't worried about that.

[DanTex]

20. Criminals of all races often carry guns.

The police sees a young black male, racially profiles him, assumes he is some kind of criminal or gang member. In the US, that frequently means armed with a gun. In other countries, that would generally mean armed with a knife. Big difference.

Like I said, I agree about Ferguson.

[stone space]

29. Militarization of the polce is not...

...a phenomena restricted solely to Fergusen.

There has been an militarization of both the public and the police.

The citizens of Fergusen would have to deal with that fact even if there were zero guns in Fergusen.

Most of your considerations are assuming that the militarization of the police in Fergusen is a purely local matter. It is not.

We need to face up to the fact that the militarization of the police is intimately tied to the militarization of the public. (And the police are going to win that arms race, except in very rare isolated instances where their being outgunned only serves to point out the "need" for further militarization of the police.)

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if the flooding of this country with weapons is consciously and intentionally done in order to help enable the militarization of the police.

Racism will be a major factor regardless, but how that racism is expressed will depend on how much military hardware is available.

[dilby]

19. Except cops always shoot the unarmed people and rarely the armed ones.

I think it's their fear of guns that keep them from shooting.

[Politicalboi]

21. Very predictable

And we all pay the price so "some" can save the world with their gun.

[Dont call me Shirley]

23. Police were beginning formal training in the late 80's

to fear the public; way before the gun collecting frenzy we've been in since 2001.

[pintobean]

24. Nothing indicates that Wilson thought Brown was armed.

Nothing I've seen anyway. Everyone wants to try to tie their pet issue to this shooting and its aftermath.

[DanTex]

25. Like I said, in this case probably not.

But in the larger scheme of police violence, guns are absolutely part of the story. In countries with sensible gun laws, you don't get nearly as many police shootings.

[951-Riverside]

30. There is no "but". Stop trying to justify killing or seriously injuring unarmed people

Most of the people these police thugs gun down arent armed with firearms and when they are armed like at Bundy ranch these police thugs tuck tail and RUN.

You can't blame people for being freaked out when they see cops killing handcuffed people like Oscar Grant in Oakland, Beating and strangling Kelly Thomas to death in Fullerton, Beating the shit out of an old man Jay Walking in NYC, Strangling that poor man in NYC to death and Pointing guns at Media in Furguson.

By the way, I don't own guns, I don't like guns, I don't like being around them and I've never held one.

NONE OF THESE PEOPLE POSED ANY THREAT TO POLICE!

GUN CONTROL AND POLICE ABUSE ARE TWO VASTLY DIFFERENT ISSUES!

THERE IS NO GOD DAMN EXCUSE FOR HOW THE POLICE HAVE BEEN BEHAVING OVER THE PAST DECADE.

[DanTex]

32. There's no excuse for racism and police brutality.

But gun control and police shootings are related. In the UK most cops don't carry guns. A recent OP pointed out the Belgium just had their first lethal police shooting in their entire history. In Germany, the police fired a total of about 90 shots in an entire year. Stuff like this is much more rare in countries with sensible gun laws. This isn't an excuse, but there is a connection.

[Matrosov]

28. Militarized police is hardly surprising when..

..our civilians are also militarized. There are few things to which law enforcement has access that civilians cannot own as well.

Helmets and body armor? Legal for civilian ownership and use.
Semi-automatic assault rifles? Legal for civilian ownership and use.
Semi-automatic sniper rifles? Legal for civilian ownership and use.
Anti-material sniper rifles? Legal for civilian ownership and use.

[hifiguy]

31. Damn, I missed the troll.

Must have been a good one.

[Taitertots]

33. The police culture of paranoia/cowardice has nothing to do with gun control laws

It is just a quaint excuse for systemic human rights abuses.

[Fred Sanders]

34. You get it. The mass media shies away from it. The police would agree with you I think.

Add Kaz Powell to the mountain of truth.

Very kicked.