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Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 02:10 PM Aug 2014

Police negotiate with drunk open carry white man who asked police to shoot him. No charges.

Edit: A Google search finds many links to the police dash and audio and video....at all the sites the video has been deleted.....

Edit 2-with a little help from my friends, found in the thread.


_________________________


http://latest.com/2014/06/should-he-be-charged-swat-team-responds-to-drunk-open-carry-activist-waving-gun-in-kalamazoo/

Should He Be Charged? SWAT Team Responds to Drunk, Open Carry Activist Waving Gun in Kalamazoo

"A rifle-toting Michigan man and open carry activist was walking around town drunk and shouting of revolution in early May. Still, he claims it was all within his Constitutional rights and authorities apparently agree.

Last month, Joseph Houseman was walking through Kalamazoo near a laundromat and gas station when he was stopped by police after several people called 911.

“I just want to talk to you. You’re walking around here scaring people, man,” Sgt. Sean Gordon is heard on the dash cam recording saying to Houseman.

After refusing to give his name or surrender his weapon, Houseman then tells police, “Why don’t you [expletive] shoot me?”

Shortly thereafter, the SWAT team arrives and a trained negotiator takes over the conversation with Houseman , who talked about police violence and an ‘imminent revolution’ during the sometimes tense encounter.

“He is exercising his open carry rights, however, he has certainly overextended them at this point,” a police officer is heard saying, pointing out that he was waving the weapon around, a violation of Michigan law which allows you to carry, but not brandish, weapons in public.

Houseman also told police that his profanity and threats were also his exercise of his First Amendment right to free speech."

..........................

Houseman is very much alive, good thing he was not carrying a steak knife or had his hands up.

His ruddy complexion probably helped also.




..........................

"Geik (police spokesman)said that while the man wasn't brandishing the rifle, he noted that the gun did not have a strap, which caused the man to hold the weapon in both hands and continue to "fidget" with it.

Tunji Ademodi, who works at the laundromat, said he couldn't believe when he heard the man shout obscenities at officers.

"He's just sitting there calling them all kind of pigs and F-U and this and that and grabbing himself," Ademodi said. "It was unreal."

Officers eventually convinced the man to set down his gun, upon which time it was seized. Geik said the man was informed he would have his weapon returned to him if he would agree to submit to a breathalyzer test, which he repeatedly refused.

"He was given the option to keep his rifle if he submitted to the PBT," Geik said. "He refused and basically told us to jam it.

He did not receive a citation, but Geik said he would be speaking further with the man tomorrow."

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2014/05/man_acting_irrationally_while.html

...............................

Description of encounter:

http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2014/06/dash_cam_footage_from_open_car.html#incart_related_stories

Dash cam footage with complete detailed transcript of conversation.


KDPS Sgt. Sean Gordon is the first officer to arrive. From the dash cam footage from his patrol car, his vehicle can be seen pulling into the Cork Street Laundry at 4:09 p.m. as Houseman walks east on the sidewalk along Cork Street. Houseman crosses the street diagonally toward the Auto Zone parking lot, and Gordon engages him in conversation.

Gordon: Hey partner, how you doing? Can you set that down real quick and talk to me?

Houseman: I'm not setting it down.

Gordon: Well you can't cross the street like that.

Houseman: Am I being detained?

Gordon: Yes, you are being detained right now. You crossed the street illegally. Place the weapon down on the ground please.

Houseman: I will not.

Gordon radios that it appears the man will not drop his rifle.

Gordon: "Look, you crossed the street illegally; I just want to talk to you. I just want to talk to you. You're walking around here scaring people, man.

A second Public Safety vehicle arrives just after 4:11 p.m. About a minute later, Gordon asks Houseman for his name. Houseman says he is "Joe Schmoe."

"Based on training and experience I know that this is a euphemism used as an alias and knew it was not correct," Gordon would later write in his report.

Houseman: I am free to go?

Gordon: "No, you're not free to go. Right now you're committing a crime of resisting and obstructing (for failing to identify himself after being stopped for jaywalking). Now you've stepped up to a misdemeanor crime.

Houseman: Why don't you (expletive) shoot me?





22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Police negotiate with drunk open carry white man who asked police to shoot him. No charges. (Original Post) Fred Sanders Aug 2014 OP
Were Mr. Houseman black, the only "negotiation" he'd get from SWAT BlueCaliDem Aug 2014 #1
local pd would have killed an Armed black man, long before swat got there, hell Heather MC Aug 2014 #18
That's, sadly, true. eom BlueCaliDem Aug 2014 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author logosoco Aug 2014 #2
I am trying to find the video, looks like the photos a video capture. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #3
The video is here: NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #5
Thank you so much! Freaking unbelievable how police treated this guy versus how St. Louis police Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #6
I saw that video. Couldn't stop crying after I heard the sound of the bullets. freshwest Aug 2014 #20
Amazing video... yuiyoshida Aug 2014 #17
It's like a real life parody (Except it's not funny) ck4829 Aug 2014 #4
white privilege? BobbyBoring Aug 2014 #7
There's no question mark needed. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #8
In all it's full blown video taped glory. His parents did not have to give him a teenage "talk"..... Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #9
Good police response. Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #10
I would not try it on a dare, for research or for a zillion dollars, drunk, sober, high or dumb. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #11
Me either Gormy Cuss Aug 2014 #14
right heaven05 Aug 2014 #21
Wow. secondvariety Aug 2014 #12
open carry WHITE man malaise Aug 2014 #13
Good thing he wasn't carrying a toy gun in a Target. ybbor Aug 2014 #15
Everyone who is surprised by this stand on your head... hifiguy Aug 2014 #16
Perhaps it is that Kalamazoo cops are not as thuggish as other cops? Killeroctopus Aug 2014 #19

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
1. Were Mr. Houseman black, the only "negotiation" he'd get from SWAT
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 02:13 PM
Aug 2014

would be riddled with bullets until he's dead.

America - land of the double standards.

Response to Fred Sanders (Original post)

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
6. Thank you so much! Freaking unbelievable how police treated this guy versus how St. Louis police
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 02:31 PM
Aug 2014

gunned down Taz Powell holding a steak knife. No attempt at all to negotiate, instant execution.

Kind of puts a lie to the whole canard of police had no choice......

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
20. I saw that video. Couldn't stop crying after I heard the sound of the bullets.
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 04:59 PM
Aug 2014

They could have backed up or got in the car the way Z-thug was told to do. The steak knife wasn't going to hurt them there. But no, they cut him down like a target. Black skin always is and it's past time for this to end. No more business as usual, America.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
10. Good police response.
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 02:55 PM
Aug 2014

Too bad all officers aren't this well trained.

Of course, it remains to be see if a POC wandering around drunk with a weapon etc. would have been accorded the same treatment.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
14. Me either
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 03:51 PM
Aug 2014

but back when I worked for LEOs while they drew their weapons with some regularity it was rare that they ever fired them.

Now nightsticks, those were used with great enthusiasm by some anti-social cops.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
21. right
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 05:09 PM
Aug 2014

who are you trying to fool. "It remains to be seen if a POC wandering around drunk with a weapon ect. would have been accorded the same treatment". The POC would be dead. Period.

 

Killeroctopus

(16 posts)
19. Perhaps it is that Kalamazoo cops are not as thuggish as other cops?
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 04:27 PM
Aug 2014
http://www.mlive.com/opinion/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2013/09/julie_mack_whites_blind_spot_a.html

In the video, Moore was quiet and polite. He handed over his driver's license and the officers as "sir." He had no police record. But he would not provide his cellphone number, questioning whether he was legally required to give that information. (In fact, he was not.)

Calling him "defiant," Moore was handcuffed, arrested and put in jail. The video captured a conversation between the two officers that made the reason for Moore's arrest more clear: The officers were looking for probable cause to search his car, and an arrest fit the bill.


After we reported on the ACLU study, I was talking with a white higher-up in Kalamazoo County's criminal justice system. He said the statistics should come as no surprise to anyone who spends time in Kalamazoo County courtrooms, where the number of black defendants outnumber whites, even though blacks are only 11 percent of the county population.


Not so much.
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