Is Hillary unelectable?

[gyroscope]

she turns off progressives and is despised by the right.

in other words, she doesn't inspire the youth and progressive/liberal vote like Obama did. but she does inspire conservative voters to go out and vote for their candidate due to their deep historical hatred for the Clintons. a double negative.

besides that is the likability factor. she is just not a likeable person, isn't warm or personable and can't deliver a great speech. so there's also that. when I think of HC the term Ice Queen always comes to mind.

[MohRokTah]

1. No. eom

[spanone]

2. your opinions are not facts

[gyroscope]

4. Yes they are my opinions

as is yours.

[winter is coming]

3. No, but she's not inevitable, either. n/t

[Egnever]

21. /end thread

[Cali_Democrat]

5. According to the numbers, she doesn't turn off progressives

Sure, there are some folks on the left who are turned off by her, but liberal Dems support her at higher rates than conservative Dems.

[DarthDem]

6. LOL

Thanks for distilling things down for us. I was not aware she turned off liberals.

[hack89]

7. No. She is popular and can win nt

[NRaleighLiberal]

8. It's more complex than that - for me, anyway.

Mostly, you've just posted your opinions.

[BainsBane]

9. We have a real election now: Midterms

There is no Presidential election now and we have no candidates.
I see all this talk about Clinton as suppressing Democratic turnout and paving the way for GOP victory THIS November.
While that is not the purpose of many who post such threads, it is the effect.

This endless fixation on the presidency is absurd. No wonder the GOP is able to wield power while receiving a minority of the vote. Too many Democrats are entirely disinterested in how power is actually wielded in this country and seem anxious to surrender power at the congressional and state level, which controls redistricting. It's like people are dedicated to making themselves as politically irrelevant as possible by focusing on the one race they have the least control over. In the meantime, the GOP gains further control of state legislatures, increases their presence in the House and has a good chance of gaining the senate, and few here show the slightest interest in the current election.

[AdHocSolver]

16. This! ^^ Trying to inject reality into political discussion on DU is very difficult.

When commenting on political strategy or discussing real economics, it feels like one is conversing with a wall.

While Republican talking points often range from stupid to plain crazy, they get serious when election time comes around, they get out the vote, and they often win.

Then Democrats blame their loss on the fact that the opposition has more money to spend. That is going to be true for many elections. If all it takes is a lot of money, the one percent is going to win most elections.

The Democrats better come out with a better strategy to get out the vote that doesn't rely on a lot of money, or it won't matter who runs in 2016.

Moreover, Democrats better spend more thought and energy on winning state and local races, or it won't matter who wins the Presidency in 2016.

[Egnever]

23. Well said.

[davidpdx]

32. Good point

If we don't pick up seats in 2014 and in 2016 a Democrat in the White House isn't going to do a hell of a lot. We need to have a majority in the House plus a bit of cushion (maybe 230ish) and 60 in the Senate by 2016.* The other thing is winning back more of the governor's seats that we lost in 2010 (Florida, Michigan, Pennsylvania, etc).

*-I honestly don't see both happening this year. The best we can hope for is holding on to the Senate and picking up a few seats in the House at least moving us in the right direction.

[BillZBubb]

10. She is electable, but it won't be a cakewalk.

The degree of difficulty depends on who the right wing opposition turns out to be. That could well encourage unhappy progressives back into the fold.

Sure we can list her deficiencies of which there several. But she has assets too which make her a credible and possibly formidable candidate.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. If she's counting on my, or my wife's vote, she is.

[kcjohn1]

12. Hillary can't get out the vote

It is going to be difficult environment for Democrats. 8 years Obama with at best neutral economic climate low information voters will lean towards "new" ideas.

Repubs voters will be motivated. Obama was great politician and got out the vote (especially African Americans). Going to be difficult to replicate that and Hillary is unlikely to get out the vote.

The key will be making clear distinction from whatever crazy candidate Republican put up. Clinton oozies establishment. Biggest danger is that your average democratic voter is disillusioned. For all of Obama's faults in governing the guy is great campaigner. I don't think Hillary has it in her to overcome the many challenges she will go up against.

[gyroscope]

13. I agree

BO is not a great president. But he was a great campaigner, knows how to deliver a great campaign speech and is likable. In that sense, he's a lot like Bill Clinton when he was president. Hillary doesn't have any of those things going for her.

As far as I can tell she only has the name recognition.

[woo me with science]

14. I don't vote for Third Way corporatists and warmongers.

I hope we find a better candidate and can avoid having to test whether the rest of America will.

[pnwmom]

15. If she turns off progressives, why is she so popular in progressive New York?

Both in the state and even more in the city?

[customerserviceguy]

22. She's done a lot of favors

for the right people in NY.

[pnwmom]

24. That doesn't explain why she's so popular with progressive voters in NYC and state. n/t

[customerserviceguy]

25. She ran two campaigns in NY State

and won them both. Clearly, she's figured out how to get support here.

Part of that is the deals she's made, both since the Clinton Administration, and at the end of it. The rest is just that Republicons don't resonate well here, especially the ones that would have any support outside of NY/NJ. Christie might do well here, but since he's anathema to any Repuke outside the Northeast, he's not going anywhere. So, Hillary is the natural choice of people who have already voted for her twice.

[pnwmom]

26. Polls across the country put her popularity close to 80% with Democratic voters.

It's only the Dems at the extremes on either end who don't like her.

DU isn't very representative of Dems in general.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

44. Maybe "she did favors" for all 80% percent of them./NT

[kcjohn1]

27. polls

Well Schumer got as much votes and win by greater margin NY. Does that make hero of progressives?

This early in the cycle polls are all about name recognition. Let's see her popularity after regerous campaign.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. No. It's shows he's a winner, at least on the field he chooses to play on./NT

[pnwmom]

49. Her popularity will absolutely go down. But there is no one yet who appears even close. n/t

[NanceGreggs]

17. Interesting stuff ...

"she turns off progressives.

Any links to anything showing that to be remotely true - other than a link to a DU thread?

"she doesn't inspire the youth and progressive/liberal vote" Hate to be a pest, but -- link to some solid info on this, please?

"she does inspire conservative voters to go out and vote for their candidate" That's got to be an interesting set of poll results - can you cite one or two?

"she is just not a likeable person, isn't warm or personable and can't deliver a great speech."

Do you have any stats to back that up as being a widely-held opinin - I mean stats that don't come down to an on-line FOX-News poll. or some other such source?

TIA!

[AgingAmerican]

18. Was that a question

or a speech?

[Warren DeMontague]

19. Absolutely not. In fact, I think she could very well be our strongest potential candidate for '16.

Whether I support her in the primaries or not will probably have more to do with stances on issues and how well she makes the case, assuming she runs... But i do believe she is a connected and seasoned player of the game who has tons of name recognition and has already had several kitchens worth of sinks thrown at her, and come through.

So should she win the primaries, I believe she will be a formidable candidate.

[customerserviceguy]

20. No

She's electable enough.

[blkmusclmachine]

28. What's NOT to like: Queen Blue Dog, Third Way acolyte, "New" DEM, Ms. Triangulation, "dead broke,"

criticizer of Prez. Obama, wanna-be War Hawk, ...

This isn't the '90s anymore ...

[eridani]

29. Not sure. Obama lending her his campaign team would be a plus

Being tone-deaf is a minus. Name recognition is a plus, as is association with the comparatively prosperous nineties.

[still_one]

30. hmmm, so you speak for all progressives

[still_one]

31. not by those on DU who feel like you do, but for most of the Democrats and populous, yes

[quaker bill]

33. compared to what?

First thing, any candidate with a (D) will be despised by the right. nothing could be less relevant, conservatives show up and will show up regardless of who we nominate. Rumors to the contrary, they even came out for Mitt.

Can Hillary bring out the youth and minority vote? I think so, probably not quite in the way BHO did, but a lot of young women will vote to make a woman president.

Would I choose a different candidate? sure.

I think if republicans run the right candidate, they could beat Hillary. It is however very unlikely they would ever nominate a candidate capable of this.

[Laelth]

34. Hillary Clinton is very electable, imo.

Of course, I think the Democratic nominee will win in 2016 no matter whom we nominate, so "electable" isn't exactly saying much.

-Laelth

[B Calm]

35. I really don't understand why she would turn off republicans, sorry I can't call them conservatives!

The LAST thing republicans should be called is conservative!

[JaydenD]

36. Ice Queen is a ridiculous thing to call her.

It smacks of sexism if you ask me. Ice = cold = frigid = a woman who you don't like that becomes sexless and undesirable. A low insult to give to a woman that has been used since forever.

Hillary has so much not going for her, and you have mentioned some of those things without making any reference to gender, there is no need to resort to that sort of thing.

[FSogol]

39. +1 Totally agree. n/t

[earthside]

57. I don't know about that.

I rarely hear a woman called a 'cold fish' -- mostly that is an idiom used for a man who is distant, unfeeling, usually ruthless.

'Ice queen' seems to me to be an idiomatic equivalency ... although an ice queen is usually thought of as more attractive than the image of a cold, dead fish.

As to 'ice queen' fitting Hillary Clinton, well, that is a subjective call and perhaps political hyperbole, but that's what makes political rhetoric and debate so interesting.

[Gothmog]

37. No

[FSogol]

38. Why don't we have a primary or something and see what the party thinks?

We could have other people run and everyone could vote for their favorite choice! We could have debates and campaign appearances drawn out over a year (after the midterms which are much more important)! It would be totally cool!

:insert rainbows and unicorns here:

[DonCoquixote]

40. even I would not say she was

but she is not as inevitable as many would think. She is Vulnerable to GOP assualts, especially if they can produce someone who can play the part of "compassionate conservative" or "Libertarian."

Granted, we know Paul Ryan cannot play those parts as well as Rand Paul or Jeb could. However, Rand Paul CAN get out the red meat GOP types who, unlike we Democrats, will glady walk over Broken Glass to get their person in, as opposed to the fact that we refuse to unfiy even for the best of reasons.

[FSogol]

41. Aw man, not another day of this f'ing Rand Paul crap.

Rand Paul and his father, Ron are extremely unpopular with the Republican base and the GOP major donors. Aside from 2-4 weeks during the primaries when he gets some 2nd place wins, Rand will be treated like a joke. His only appeal is to some gullible 20-somethings who lack basic political experience and seem to have an overly heavy web presence. Women and minorities will not vote for Rand.

[sufrommich]

42. " Ice Queen"

Women running for office should always be warm and huggable,preferably sexy if they can pull it off.

[gyroscope]

48. In the case of Hillary

I think the term is more than appropriate. as is backstabber. it has nothing to do with her gender but her actions. considering how she ran such an ugly negative campaign in the 2008 primaries.

and her unprecedented harsh criticism of a sitting democratic president in her own party is quite shocking...and cold-blooded.

[pampango]

43. Obama barely beat her in 2008 and he proved to be quite electable. She is not unbeatable but

she is certainly not unelectable.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. "Ice Queen" sounds kind of sexist to me. /NT

[Orsino]

47. Clinton is inevitable.

She didn't have quite the novelty appeal of an Obama, but people love her. There will be no one to mount a significant challenge this tome around.

[ieoeja]

50. Iowa is not Clinton friendly. New Hampshire is Sanders' back yard.

If she runs she is in serious danger of starting 0-2. If that happens, people will view her as yesterday's news and a no longer a viable candidate. Doubly so among Democrats. Reagan may have finally won the Republican nomination after losing repeatedly before that. But progressives don't care much for re-treads.

So, no, Hillary may not be electable.

Another thing to remember is that it is very difficult to get the Democratic nomination if African-Americans don't like you. Democratic opponents are going to have a field day reminding people of her frequent dust-ups with Obama when she was supposed to be serving him as Secretary of State. And she hasn't done herself any favors trashing him for not having "a policy" on national security.

Actually, after reminding myself of that little fact, I move her from "may" be unelectable to "probably" unelectable. I just don't see any way she could possibly win the Democratic primary.

[Rex]

51. Of course not!

[tridim]

52. Hillary isn't running in November. Who cares. nt

[Rex]

53. Seriously all this BS talk...and the Rand posts...garbage in garbage out.

We should be focusing on House/Senate races...not this crap. IMO.

[muriel_volestrangler]

55. Have you ever bothered looking for a poll about 2016?

I think you ought to, before bringing such Creative Speculation as this OP here. GD is reality-based.

[earthside]

56. She might be.

As a Clinton candidacy gets closer or more possible, I am detecting a distinct lack of enthusiasm for her among average voters I know and amongst dedicated progressives.

I only see a keenness for Hillary among establishment party hack types and among those eager for a female nominee (who think the nomination belongs only to Hillary and no other Democratic woman).

Bernie Sanders or Brian Schwietzer or Martin O'Malley or Amy Klobuchar -- which ever alternative candidate can come across as fresh, bold, courageous, progressive and as a fighter for the working folks will win the nomination, in my opinion.

That being said, I really think that Hillary will probably not run ... frankly she sounds more tried and less engaged than Bernie Sanders who is six years old than her.

But we will know in the next couple of weeks. When they are released, just look at the possible candidates and their schedules from Labor Day until November 4; if Hillary isn't on the stump or has a light schedule campaigning for Democratic candidates across the nation, well, that will likely mean she is not running.

So, is Hillary Clinton unelectable? She might be ... for the nomination there just may not be sufficient enthusiasm for her.

If she got the nomination, well, it certainly depends upon who the Repuglicans chose ... and they might still nominate an 'acceptable' candidate (although I don't know who that could be); or she could be the most wrong choice if we get into another war or we have another economic crash.

Nevertheless, Clinton's hawkishness, her ties with Wall Street, her cattle futures deal, her undistinguished tenure as Secretary of State, her occasional political tone deafness, her riding on Bill's popularity ... well, those are big factors that may make her election much harder even against some of the Repuglican radicals.