If Bernie Sanders runs for president, and does not run as a Democrat, there is no way he stands a

[still_one]

chance to win the general election. Even if he run as A Democrat and wins the nomination it will be all up hill fight

[bigdarryl]

1. Either way he doesn't stand a chance

The powers that be already has given the crown to Hillary

[wyldwolf]

5. I'll bet you said that in 2008.

[bigdarryl]

20. The difference in 2016 there is no one on the arise like Obama

I mean Sanders doesn't light up the room when he enters.

[daleanime]

6. and your good with that?

[BlueCaliDem]

11. Senator Sanders doesn't stand a chance because he's too liberal for America, generally.

It's got nothing to do with any "powers that be" crowning anyone. The American electorate is wary of any extremes in politics and would rather choose the "middle ground" for some mythical "balance".

But yes, I know. That wariness is frustrating.

[emulatorloo]

14. Dunno, there is this crazy thing known as "primary voters"

Didn't go so well for "crowned" Hillary in 08

[Generic Brad]

2. But that does not diminish the importance of his voice

If he helps steer the party or the electorate into a more liberal, socially conscious direction then he will have done a service to us all. There is a lot of value in that.

[emulatorloo]

13. Agreed, really hope he runs.

[MADem]

3. He won't win the nomination. He has no ground game, no national organization.

If he runs at all, it will be to "add to the discussion."

[daleanime]

8. I think you're wrong, but even if you're right....

that would be bad because?

[MADem]

16. Why are you characterizing my remarks?

If you're looking for a fight about what's "good" or "bad," I suggest you look elsewhere.

If he wants to run, he most certainly should. He first needs to decide if he wants to run as some flavor of independent, or as a Democrat.

If he wants to run as a Democrat, he needs to get off his ass and change his party affiliation. If he does it right before he files papers to run, the Democratic Party establishment will note that, and give his candidacy the attention and funding it deserves (which will be very little).

If he wants to run as an independent, he is past due for getting off his behind and putting together an exploratory team and trying to affiliate with other small parties (reform, Green, other "independent" actors) to try to develop a strategy for major primary states.

Elections are not won simply with "high falutin'" ideas, a steely gaze and a flag planted on the moral high ground. They're won with MONEY and lots of it. Now, we can argue all day about this, but that's a fact. Indeed, most people who care about the process would prefer to get money out of politics, subsidize it and create a level playing field, but that's not happening in the near term, either, so it's pointless to spit and fume about it for this election cycle.

Bottom Line: No money, no game. See Kucinich, Dennis, now of Fox News, for an example of that.

[daleanime]

22. First, my apologizes, I am not trying to "characterize" your remarks.....

or in anyway pick a fight. It appears that how you read my post and for that I am sorry.

Nor do we disagree about the fact that has things stand now, elections are all about money.


Now where we can have honest discussion is in our response to something we both seem to dislike, the open bribery of our government. I find nothing 'high falutin' about opposing the money machine. It's not a matter of 'the moral high ground', it's a matter of survival.

[MADem]

23. I didn't say there was anything "high falutin'" about opposing the money machine.

My thoughts in using that term were on the lines of "Mister Smith Goes to Washington" type issues. The money machine gets in the way of a lot of that stuff, certainly, because the lobbyists do have a way of getting their points across--with donations. Money talks.

As for talking about the open bribery of our government (again, a separate issue from that "moral high ground" I was referring to--my frame of reference was the Democratic party platform, in opposition to the anti-choice, anti-equality, anti-fair pay GOP one), you could start that conversation here in GD, and it might take off, or it might sink like a stone, depending on which topic is on fire today or tomorrow--GD is very fickle--or, for a slower conversation that might not be so fast paced and could last for weeks or even months as people stumble upon it, there's the under-utilized Election Reform Group, which is found under the Government and Elections group header. Perhaps in the run up to 2016 we'll see those subgroups get a bit more of a workout.

[riqster]

4. He can influence the platform if he gets enough delegates.

[morningfog]

7. He can influence the platform by participating on the debate.

[riqster]

10. True. But if he runs as a dem he could get even more clout.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. He'll probably get my vote either way.

[taught_me_patience]

12. He doesn't stand a chance period.

He's there to get into the debates and make a little noise for a couple of months.

[Nitram]

15. If Sanders runs as an independent...

...he will Ralph Nader the Democratic candidate and the Republican will win. Even if it's Mitt again.

[MADem]

17. No he won't.

Look at how many people here stuffed him under the bus when they figured out that a Jewish guy who spent some of his young adulthood on a kibbutz just might cast a vote on the Hill to benefit Israel? And if you think he'll capture the Jewish vote, think again--the idea is to WIN the White House, not fall on one's sword and make some sort of dramatic, pointless "gesture" and put a wingnut in the Oval Office. It's not identity politics with that demographic--it's all about winning.

[Cleita]

19. He has stated his purpose more than once.

He wants to be in the primaries to pull the debate among the other candidates to the left. He really doesn't intend on winning. I think though to do that he would have to run as a Democrat.

[conservaphobe]

18. Bernie isn't stupid enough to cost the Democrats the White House.

Some of his most ardent supporters might be stupid enough or spiteful enough to want him to do it, but not Bernie.

I predict he will mount a Democratic primary challenge and drop out of the election upon defeat.

[still_one]

21. I agree, and most of the posts seem to have a full appreciation of the reality of the situation

[MADem]

24. I think you've nailed down his motive. The man has ideals but he's also pragmatic in practice.

I don't know if he'll go so far as to switch parties, and run as a Dem, though. That said, I'm certainly not ruling it out.

He kind of likes his "Indy" cred. He'd need some help getting on enough ballots as an Indy to qualify for participation in the debates, certainly.