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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDuck Dynasty’s Robertson and ISIS: Both will kill you if you don’t convert to their religion.
http://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2014/09/03/duck-dynastys-robertson-and-isis-both-will-kill-you-if-you-dont-convert-to-their-religion/Both have said it straight out, Gentle Reader, so this is not Cranky hyperbole. Lets start with Ducky Daddy , OK? He said this to Sean Hannity just yesterday: Im just saying either convert them or kill them. Theres video at the link if you dont believe it.
ISIS, the Too Crazy even for Al-Quaida Brigade, kill people from other religions. And they have been doing it. Hopefully, Duckie Boy and his faux-redneck crew of TeaVangelicals arent doing THIS in their swamps (yet):
As previously reported, ISIS gave villagers the choice of converting to Islam or facing death. Everyone in the village, whose name is also spelled Kocho, chose conversion. Everyone, that is, except their sheikh.
The one mans refusal was enough to push ISIS militants over the edge, Reuters reports. After looting the village, they loaded the men into buses and took them to the middle of the desert, where they shot them.
That, Cranky Nation, is exactly what Christians like Phil Robertson will do if they can take over. Itll be Kiss the Cross or be kissed by a sword. Oh, and you had better be the RIGHT kind of Christian: Presbyterians are considered just as Hellbound as Moslems to crazy f***ers like the Ducksters, so this writers head would be rolling down the street, too. Likely yours would as well.
Its time and past time to remind our country that we ALL have freedom of religion. Nobody should be threatened with death because of their faith. NOBODY. Nowhere. Never. Phil Robertson should take his Bin Laden Beard overseas and join ISIS. The murderous lunatic would fit right in.
Heck, he could star in the next video as he beheads a journalist. Even better propaganda value than a cowardly Brit who is too scared to take his mask off while killing bound, unarmed infidels.
Source material at the link.
Initech
(100,076 posts)Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)100% mortality rate.
Owl
(3,642 posts)N_E_1 for Tennis
(9,727 posts)Different god.
Just amazing he doesn't get it!
riqster
(13,986 posts)See how logical?
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)advocate beheadings, they do advocate a return to stonings per Leviticus.
I don't really see any difference when you get right down to it.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Yep, still dead.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Thanks in advance.
riqster
(13,986 posts)But I am sure you know that.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)cannot distinguish simple bigotry from actual murderous behavior and intent.
You know full well that the Duck Dynasty clowns aren't going to kill anyone. You just
can't handle that someone else IS killing people.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Ask any Huguenot, Jewish, Moslem, Roma, Gay, Black person.....hell, many people from many groups about ignoring the danger presented by people who utter violent threats.
When those threats are met by responses of "awwww, he doesn't really mean it", bad things happen.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)which you know with 99.99% certainty is complete and utter fucking horseshit.
That was the discussion. Meanwhile ISIS IS killing people. Proudly, actively, publicly.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Nor is it based on any evidence. Just your assumption.
My family history has taught me not to be so blasé.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)And show them the video you have, which is evidently similar to the actual ISIS videos.
Rest easy, sport. I know you don't have any video, because you are worried that a yokel
television monkey is going to start killing people. You claim this because you are evidently among
a group of people so disquieted by ISIS killing in the name of Islam (or at least their interpretation
of it) that you simply have to lump loudmouthed Christians in as well.
Until you have video of American Christians killing actual people on video with messages directly mocking
President Obama, you are speaking rectally. And that is a simple matter of fact. DD clowns are free to
say anything, but that pales in comparison to what ISIS IS ACTUALLY DOING, AND WOULD HAPPILY DO TO
YOU AND ME.
riqster
(13,986 posts)If it materializes, you will be shocked. But you shouldn't be.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)I live in the real world that can disdain zealous Christians while being concerned about ISIS. If you don't, that's your lookout.
riqster
(13,986 posts)One word, Dreamer: "Crusades".
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Crusades?
Haha haha haha haha
Thanks for the laugh.
riqster
(13,986 posts)But then, if it's Christian holy killings, why....that never happens, and even if it did, it was a longlonglong time ago, and it could never evereverever happen now? Right?
Ermmmmm...wrong. Northern Ireland, Christians killing Christians. Not so long ago.
Operation Iraqi Liberation, a number of PNAC types casting it as a crusade against Islsm. People including those among the White House and Pentagon staffs.
Christians can be just as evil as ISIS. History proves it.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)to stonings per Leviticus. And these days whenever you hear a public figure wanting to put religion into government, they are very likely a Christian Reconstructionist.
They don't want people to know what they are really about, but they do have a very dark agenda.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Reter
(2,188 posts)Big difference. They deserve to die before they kill again.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)ISIS and Robertson exist in different conditions - ISIS exists in a place beyond the possibility of law controlling their actions, Robertson does not.
Put Robertson in a lawless scenario. strip the possibility of legal punishment for his actions. What happens?
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Try to understand this: ISIS IS KILLING PEOPLE BY BEHEADING. ON VIDEO. WARNING THE PRESIDENT. MOCKING THE PRESIDENT. THREATENING MORE.
What you THINK someone would do in a completely made-up and stupid scenario has no bearing on anything. Not to mention that ISIS is killing people indiscriminately, whereas the DD clown IS TALKING ABOUT KILLING ISIS MEMBERS.
Are you defending ISIS by claiming someone here would do the same thing? If so, that's stupid. Are you claiming that the DD morons are murderous thugs looking for a chance to kill people on tape? If so, that's also stupid. It's possible to say that you don't like something without lumping it together with other things you don't like just so no one can call you inconsistent. Jesus.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)I'm saying that without laws that would punish them, I think these fundie freaks would be taking action that mirror the fundie freaks out on northwest iraq. Not that they ARE doing so, but that the same mentality is present.The same gay-hating, war-mongering, my-god-trumps-your-life outlook on reality, he same paranoia that anyone who dares believe differently is out to "get them," etc.
Basically the only barrier between these kooks deciding they need to saw off a few heads of their own, is the well-placed fear that htey will be caught and punished for doing so.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Got it.
And you KNOW this because...well...you just do.
Oh, and ONLY the Duck Dynasty guys would go on this murderous rampage if only murder was legal. Wow...a whole criminal
justice system erected to guard against the murderous intentions of one family. We are so lucky someone caught on.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Robertson's position isn't that ISIS should die for doing all the horrible things they've done. Rather they should die if they didn't convert to his religion. convert them or kill them.
Now I guess that kind of outlook is fine with you. Why else would you be defending a gigantic homophobe who recommends marriage to a fourteen year old because the bible says so who is talking about killing people (albeit in this instance bad people) if they don't convert to his religion.
But it bothers me greatly. And it's a pretty common refrain from all stripes of religious fundamentalists, this call to inflict violence to ensure their own religious dominance. And in every situation where these sort of people manage to find a niche away from the law or below its radar, they engage in the most grotesque sort of abuses they can, in hte name of that religion of theirs.
So yes, I think, in the absence of laws to punish him for it, Phil Robertson would be killing "infidels," stoning gays, and fucking little girls to his heart's content. and no, not just him and his family, but a very broad swath of people in this nation, adherents of fundamentalist, freakshow versions of whatever cockamamie religion they follow. They keep telling us that this is the shit htye want, maybe we ought to get it through our heads that maybe that's actually what they want.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)So I assume in this Purge Paradise of yours, you'd kill me.
Look: ISIS is murdering thousands of people. We don't really have time to play patty-cake pretend about what would happen if there were no laws.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)The point continues to be un-gotten, and with a vengeance.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)Since that's, you know, what the man SAID.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)(I suspect intentionally deceptive).
What he actually said was that ISIS - specifically ISIS, not anyone else - should be killed or converted to Christianity.
riqster
(13,986 posts)At no time did he specifically exclude other varieties of non-Fundagelical Christians.
He said it in a conversation about ISIS, but did not specifically restrict it to them.
MADem
(135,425 posts)It's comparing assholes to murderers, and there is a difference.
One is all talk, no walk, and the other have sharp knives and are using them.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)I didn't see that coming.
So we should be thankful for that info.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I "deliberately" eschewed them (like I paid attention before that) when they started acting like crazed asswipes and their "empire" lost a fortune, aren't I a bandwagoneer!
Why is anyone giving those cretins the time of day, I wonder?
I think the best reaction to anything they say is "Who cares what YOU think?"
riqster
(13,986 posts)Idiotic, lemming-esque, stupid people, yes. Teabaggers. Fundagelical loons.
But enough of them following a fake redneck pied piper is not a risk to brush off.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I'll just point and mock...as needed!
riqster
(13,986 posts)Give them the right leader, and they can be lethal.
Mockery is good. Mockery alone is not always enough. When the talk turns to murder, a line is crossed.
MADem
(135,425 posts)As the article notes, when they were on their game, they were as popular as TRADING SPACES (aka CHANGING ROOMS in UK). Who even remembers that show anymore?
To everything there is a season, and I smell rotten duck.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Don't discount the destructive potential of a bunch of heavily-armed, easily-gulled nitwits. 8.5 million of them watched just one episode.
Walk around rural America and see how many bits and bobs of DD merchandise you see. Observe the class warfare aspect of the show and its marketing campaigns.
And then consider the "patriarch" and his calls for intolerance, hatred, and revolution.
Those "nobodies" can fuck America's shit right up if all we do is play into their manipulators's hands by sneering.
MADem
(135,425 posts)They can't give it away!
Sneering takes too much psychic energy. I think IGNORING is the way to go...!
"Trading Spaces" after all....
riqster
(13,986 posts)Trust me, I live there.
Efilroft Sul
(3,579 posts)That way, I can tell who's the American extremist and who's the Islamic extremist when the gunfight happens.
riqster
(13,986 posts)sakabatou
(42,152 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)Assuming he's harmless is not a good idea.
A related rant: http://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2012/04/18/they-tell-us-what-they-will-do-but-we-dont-believe-them/
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)The person who wrote this clearly wants to trick the reader into thinking that Robertson was threatening non-Christians in general.
In fact, he was talking specifically about ways of dealing with ISIS. I don't agree with his inclusion of "convert them" as an option - I think the only way of dealing with ISIS will be to kill at least some of them, and I think religious coercion is both contemptible and pointless - but he wasn't saying what the writer wants to mislead you into thinking.
riqster
(13,986 posts)It is unwise to minimize such hate speech.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)And - although you wouldn't know it from reading the OP - they are the only people Robertson was talking about killing or converting.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Threatening to kill members of ISIS is not acting like them; threatening to force them to convert, while several steps further in that direction than I'm comfortable with, is not acting like them either.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Ideally not all of them - if they can be persuaded to surrender and/or back down, great - but I think a good deal of military force would probably be needed to achieve that.
That's not to say I necessarily favour all-out war against ISIS, but the only reasons I don't are the risk of innocent civilians being killed in the crossfire, the risk of decent soldiers on the other side being killed by them, and the financial cost, not the fact that people who have chosen to take up arms to fight for ISIS would be killed.
Now, in fairness, Robertson does appear to be saying that we should kill or forcibly convert all members of ISIS, take-no-prisoners, and I think that that is unethically & illegally (and impractically) bloodthirsty. But it's a long, long way from advocating killing innocent people.
riqster
(13,986 posts)An unsafe assumption, based on his past utterances on the topic of Islam.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)He may also *think* that we should forcibly kill or convert other people as well.
But what he said was fairly explicitly that we should deal harshly with "this group", in a discussion of ISIS.
840high
(17,196 posts)Catherine Vincent
(34,490 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)are one of the main reasons why many Americans have been scared away from religion. It's a shame, too, because there are some good parts of each religion, and most people of faith do not behave like this. At least with me and every other faith-minded person I know, we basically live and let live. As long as a person isn't bothering anyone else, who cares what he or she believes? But people like Phil "Rubber Ducky" Robertson and the Isis crowd give all of religion a bad name and fail miserably in properly following the teachings of their respective religions. All these fundamentalists want to do is control people's lives and berate you if you don't believe like how they do.
riqster
(13,986 posts)AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)In some areas easily disprove it by implying that someone with an obvious hero worship going on from masses of people will not find out some day that one of those adoring fans might just cross the line of what would be in most circles criminal behavior...
How many times has violence against fellow human beings for no other reason beyond differences being pronounced evil or unworthy stated to be truth by a person another almost comes to worship occurred?
Far too many too count.....
Regardless of whether the Duck matriarch would actually kill another person that he obviously stated on camera that he would do, to the worshiper, it has and could easily become a call to arms that another will hear loud and clear and act upon right or wrong in another's eyes...
It is not wise to ignore this loud mouth, nor is it the first time he preached hate against others is nothing more than his so called Gods name....
In retrospect he is no better than the one that swings the sword, his hands would be stained with the same blood another could spill in his name....
riqster
(13,986 posts)samsingh
(17,598 posts)isn't true religion where there is freedom to choose?
riqster
(13,986 posts)Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)and that's cool, but Robertson says he'd convert OR kill them, and that's evil or something.
Weird.
So since I haven't seen any howling about what Biden said, I assume that KILLING ISIS is just fine.
But CONVERTING THEM? Why, that's just WRONG, MISTER!!
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)It does not change the fact that the Duck Matriarch loudly and without filter stated he would Kill another if he could not change his religious beliefs.
And since I have no doubt of your true intelligence, you cannot ignore that people have been murdered and or beaten as well as mentally abused all because someone that another admired heard them preach at one time or another that someone that either looks different, acts different or lives their life differently than what's another considers the norm is undeserving as well as evil which can be the only belief needed to so blatantly hurt another..
Being aware of factual history and filtered non-fictional accounts should encourage any and all of humanity to beware of repeating obvious past horrors, it's too bad that for the most part humans would much rather revel in the fly by night so called historical non fictional accounts that continue to be available and labeled as fact.....
In my mind, he easily fits the bill of those reveling on the false narrative, more than likely because of his own criminal past which his belief helps him to feel as if it has all been forgiven...
For the most part humanity is more than riddled with the self serving....
As far as Bin Laden, I still and cannot help but question much of the rhetoric, after all it is not even hidden that our country not only trained him but aided in arming him and his followers as well...
Such knowledge makes especially difficult to demand true justice considering all involved.
One more thing, far too many Americans believe all Muslims to be the very essence of evil incarnate and act accordingly when they run into those that freely express their Personell religious beliefs....Ducks words only enforce the hate, fear and mistrust of those they simply just do not have the mindset or patience to understand ...
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)is that the guy pretty clearly said he would like to kill ISIS. Not "everyone." Not the Americans
of his choosing. Not you. Not me. But ISIS.
Yeah, that's what he said. I know you don't like him, I don't care for him either, but it doesn't change
the fact that he was talking about killing or converting ISIS.
(I know, I know...this realization is so disappointing that you just HAVE to say, well...well...well...he'd kill
Americans if he only COULD! But that's not the argument, and I don't really even accept that.)
What you think about the silly-assed DD crew is worthless compared to what ISIS is actually, actively doing
now. What you THINK someone will do doesn't mean a damned thing compared to what someone else is
ACTUALLY doing.
If you have video of American Christofascists (or whatever the sexy name for them is) beheading random people
for show, please link to it. Otherwise GMAFB.
riqster
(13,986 posts)In a world of dreams, perhaps one can afford to pretend that violent speech does not lead to violent actions.
Those of us who are awake know better.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Yet it doesn't.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Ergo, they concern me.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)Their loved ones were killed because people like you (and John McCain, and others) once went out of their way to pretend that the nascent ISIL weren't all that bad, really, they wouldn't actually do bad evil things, and even if they did, why they would never do them to us.
You want to keep it from happening again? Wipe ISIL from the face of the Earth, AND stamp out the next gang of theological mass murderers BEFORE they repeat the crimes of the past.
Those who will not learn from the mistakes of history are fated to repeat them.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)You use the appearance of being obtuse as a debating tool. Not the first time I have encountered it. Nor are you the best at it.
However, you have served a valuable purpose here: by demonstrating your lack of a rebuttal, you helped strengthen my case. And by not presenting a cogent counter-argument (hint: ROFL smilies are not cogent theses) you further demonstrate the utter lack of refutation available to you.
Plus, hey, the post count got bumped up by your "efforts". Sweet dreams, Dreamer. Here's hoping that when you eventually awaken, reality is not too bad of a shock for you.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)You said Phil wants to kill non converters. You're kind of full of it.
riqster
(13,986 posts)He said so. On camera. Tape rolling. Link provided for your edification and verification.
I'm kinda not at all full of it. But then, I'm not the one who is dreaming here.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)And I know you know it.
ISIS will kill you. Duck Dynasty wants you to buy their crap. Learn the difference.
riqster
(13,986 posts)You accused me of wanting to murder DD. I called BS on that.
This response of yours covers another subthread.
How do you expect me to take someone seriously when they can't even keep track of their own thoughts?
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)Far too many of his adoring fans heard and loudly "I'd kill those daggum Muslims if they refuse to change!" Now that my friend is the sad reality that for the most part the ones that adore Granddaddy Duck hear only what they want to hear, I should know, I know a lot of them personally .its a precarious friendship I have with many, in many instances their obvious personnel prejudices leave them with an almost childlike thought process.....
And why in the world would you think I hate a man I do not even personally know, I distrust his politics after hearing him preach his views, hate? A very strong word that does not yet apply as you have stated, a bunch of fake hillbilly good ole boys that I personally feel if it wasn't so profitable would eagerly shave off those ratty beards....
I don't need a video to realize what could happen, history is a marvelous and excellent guide to aid in figuring such out...
I truly hope they find the "individual" guilty of those horrific crimes but as history has taught the guilty of such high profile political crimes usually don't have to pay the price, I hope on this case more innocents do not find they are the ones paying for another's crime..
Our own violent history has taught us much, anyone regardless of nationality, race or gender can be and has been guilty if equally horrific crimes, some even worse...
I can name cases if you'd like, hate crimes, many many, that have occurred simply because another denounced one as sick and or evil or both and did not deserve mercy, some made sure they never received it...
riqster
(13,986 posts)Last edited Wed Sep 3, 2014, 08:14 PM - Edit history (1)
Phil Robertson also advocates the practice of statuatory rape: marrying girls who are well below the age of consent. Girls of 14, maybe 15. True, yes?
Phil Robertson also DID have sex with and marry a very young teenaged girl.
So I think we can say that this man DOES ACT UPON THE WORDS HE UTTERS. He has done so, and that is a matter of historical record.
C'mon people, wake up. You think Christians can't be evil monsters? Gimme a friggin' break.
AuntPatsy
(9,904 posts)Point being, he is quite capable of violence and rage as well as hate.....
WORDS matter, actions come later more often then not, i wonder why we have peace bonds issued? Perhaps because even the law realizes that such is needed even without having to show proof of intent via video access....
Cleita
(75,480 posts)To Phil Robertson's credit though, he hasn't beheaded anyone yet...that we know of.
riqster
(13,986 posts)...the more likely he'll be to take that as approval. Hannity and his cohort are helping to create a zeitgeist of Fundagelical violence.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)riqster
(13,986 posts)"Christians" aren't bad, "Muslims" aren't bad. Broad characterizations like that are specious at best and defamatory at worst.
But when someone uses the rhetoric of their "enemy" as Ducky did, he should be called out for hypocrisy and violent incitement. Faith be hanged, Robertson purposes killing those who will not convert to his faith.
Just like ISIL. The only difference is, DD hasn't killed anybody yet.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)He said he wanted to kill ISIS.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Have a nice time in your dream world, Dreamer.
Dreamer Tatum
(10,926 posts)Which is not as provocative as your misleading OP, but of course you can't admit fault now. There's too much work to do now, what with preventing the Duck Dynasty Crusade.
I get it, trust me. It is hard to say a word against Islamistswithout feeling the need to lump in Christians, even though Christians aren't doing squat. Calling it like it is requires courage. It's ok to not have any, but that not license to make up your own facts.
riqster
(13,986 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)in desert storm. Mainly politicians making their tours. All talk and ready to wet their pants at the first sign of trouble. As for ISIS, bunch of gangbangers with a talent for theatrics. Kill the financiers for example, say Prince Bandar.
Make it clear if you handle ISIS money you are a viable target.
Watch how fast they dry up.
riqster
(13,986 posts)I can eat them, enjoy them, AND be cognizant of risk.