The Fast Food Protesters Never Will See A $15 An Hour Wage And Not Even A Wage Raise.

[TheMastersNemesis]

I believe their is little chance for even a raise for fast food workers or any other low income workers. Too many American workers will not go out on a political limb to support them. And the entire capitalistic system is against higher wages. Corporations, the GOP, Chamber of Commerce, billionaires and their allies will make sure NOTHING will ever get done.

The political landscape is such that is does not look like their is any way to break the gridlock. And the upcoming election does not look like it will change the mix of Congress to allow any movement. The polls seem to indicate the American people will not make the right choices to get rid of a lot of GOPPERS. And these same candidate vow that they will go in the opposite direction where workers are concerned.

To add to that most of the law enforcement community is in the pocket of the business establishment. So they will make sure these demonstrators are handled. All you have to do is look at how the Occupy movement was handled and treated. We are right back to the pre union period before the Depression when it comes to workers' rights.

It will be a cold day in hell before anyone sees a raise when the GOP is determined that wages and benefits will go the other way.

[BlueJazz]

1. The most common talk I've heard lately on the subject is the old "we need to do this in increments"

What this really means is: We'll raise the minimum pay so slowly that the workers will be forever "spinning their wheels".

By the time the MW reaches 15.00...you guessed it...that 15 bucks will be worth 7.75 in todays buying power.
Another version of a capitalistic shell game..

[Orsino]

10. That's good, perhaps.

It's a step up from "we don't need to do this," at least. I'm glad that coordinated protest can still make that much happen.

[Orrex]

2. I got into a heated argument with a coworker about this

In the end, he said "this is the only thing I'm Republican about," and he scoffed at the idea that McDonalds workers should get $15.

I tried to explain to him that his arguing against a higher minimum wage is an arguing that he should also be paid less, but he simply wouldn't see it.


Damn frustrating.

[justabob]

3. so we should all just stfu?

By your logic, why bother with this site or the democratic party at all? The game is rigged and we will never get what we want so.....What? Should we all change jerseys and cheer for the other side since they are winning?

[daredtowork]

5. I think he's just expressing his demoralization. nt.

[TheMastersNemesis]

9. Not At All - Should RAISE More Hell

[daredtowork]

4. Some strange compartmentalization is going on

Somebody was trying to point it out in a thread when they brought up how much more attention a cute elephant got over the issue of slavery.

Other people have noticed a strong desensitization to horror stories - and of course there is always "compassion fatigue".

I actually worry every time there is some successful big effort focused to help people after a particular disaster because the energy put into that seems to exhaust the political will for systemic change.

When it comes to poverty or justice issues, people almost seem to be squeezing their eyes shut and plugging their fingers in their ears. During the merchant-sponsored Sit/Lie sidewalk campaign in my city it became apparent that people told themselves convenient, self-serving stories to support inaction: that the beggars were all scammers "working a corner", that kids were begging as a "weekend lifestyle" to get drug money, etc. The worst lie of all was that there were "resources" to help homeless people, but they were just being stubborn in refusing them. The merchants hired a para-police force of "Ambassadors" who would help get homeless people to these (non-existing) resources if the laws were passed: actually these "green shirts" just (illegally) push people who look too poor off of public sidewalks.

People don't want to hear truths that are too complicated. They don't want to hear about problems that are too hard to solve. If someone complains, it's so much easier to reduce the problem to that one disgruntled "complainer" and refuse to acknowledge the underlying policy problem.

I totally agree this is how Occupy fell apart as well. I was there at marches when various "leaders" attempted to hijack the gathered crowd, refusing to acknowledge the one unifying issue that had actually brought people together - widespread economic injustice.

To all those young radicals who want to create a better world out there: you can start by lending your support - even just an up-vote - to posts about economic injustice instead of just funny memes and kitteh videos. Leaving those posts without attention is the same as saying those issues have no public support.

[JCMach1]

6. And I bet the same sorts of musings were posted about the 40 hr. week...

Nothing happens if no one ever tries...

[taught_me_patience]

7. I don't know a single person outside of DU that thinks minimum should be $15/hr

I pretty much only hang with liberals in a very liberal city. This is a complete and utter pipe dream.

[HughBeaumont]

11. It has to rise. $7.25/hr is an immoral insult.

Not only that, keeping it where it is (or even more hilariously, if you listen to the Anarcho-capitalists of the world, lowering or eliminating it) is just plain bad Capitalism, bordering on re-branded Feudalism.

The minimum wage has lost value over time:



Not to mention that 40% of American workers make less than the inflation-adjusted minimum wage of 1968:

http://crooksandliars.com/dave-johnson/40-americans-now-make-less-1968

Read what Baker wrote again. The minimum wage would be $16.50 an hour -- $33,000 a year -- if it had kept up with the growth of productivity since 1968. To put the effect of this a different way, 40% of Americans now make less than the 1968 minimum wage, had the minimum wage kept pace with productivity gains.

To put this even another way, the average American's living standard would be much, much higher today if wages had not decoupled from productivity gains - with the gains all going to the 1% instead of being shared by We, the People. If wages had kept pace we wouldn't feel the terrible squeeze that everyone in the middle class is feeling. (Never mind what has happened to those below the middle class.)

This is one more way to understand the effect of income and wealth inequality on each of us. The 1%/99% thing is real. When you hear that the 6 Walmart heirs have more wealth than 1/3 (or more) of all Americans combined, it is real. When you hear that the people on the Forbes list of the 400 wealthiest Americans have more wealth than half of all Americans combined, it is real.

[taught_me_patience]

12. I'm not saying it shouldn't be raised at all

I think $9-$10 would be pretty fair. However, tying minimum wage to productivity growth is crazy. Productivity has been driven by the high end and technology. One person with a master's degree and a personal computer can do the work of 20 mathematicians and a super-computer in 1980. Robotics and computers have revolutionized manufacturing productivity. Productivity of a waiter... little change since 1968.

[whatthehey]

15. Is it the minimum wage jobs that increased productivity?

I'm all in favor of increasing the minimum wage, but tying it to productivity is the wrong horse. The vast majority of productivity gains were from people working with better automation and more integrated IT. The folks like janitors and fast food workers and retail front line staff where minimum wage predominates rarely even deploy those productivity gains, let alone generate them. The last major productivity shift in a customary min wage job was computerized POS cash registers that became the norm at least a whole generation ago.

Yes by the way I'm well aware that exceptions exist, and that even the most unskilled worker may come into contact with things that enhance productivity like RF devices, but taken as a whole the minimum wage labor force is behind the curve in productivity gains, and certainly had little to no part in bringing them about.

There are many arguments to raise the minimum wage. Welfare savings, increased consumer spending due to higher marginal propensity to consume for low income folks, higher tax revenue, minimal current inflation risk with record cash hoarding, and that's before we get to the qualitative stuff like basic economic justice, encouraging legitimate work, and human dignity. Productivity just tees up valid objections and irrelevancies.

[HughBeaumont]

21. Uh, the person writing the article tied it to productivity, not me.

At the VERY least, minimum wage needs to be 11 to 12 dollars an hour, which really isn't THAT unreasonable by any stretch in 2014. $15 an hour is pie-in-the-sky that's not happening with the laissez-fail-loving GOP Congress, swaths of them wanting to lower or eliminate the minimum wage entirely.

Moreover, America as a whole needs to get off of this 1980s thinking that $11 to $12 an hour is some extravagant wage. It's NOT. It wasn't an adequate wage in 1995 and it definitely isn't now. The fact that there are degreed professionals making only 13 to 15 an hour that hem and haw about this illustrates an even greater problem of severe underpayment in America.

I wonder if America as a whole needs to look at another problem brought about by 34 years of laissez-fail: That it made the "BERGER FLEEPER JAWRBS" the new blue collar work thanks to wholesale corporate greed that saw a lion's share of manufacturing/industry/factory jobs flee to "right-to-fire" non-union climes and third-world slavestates? Or even better, when you DO "supersize your skill set, haw haw", you have not only substantial debt that even $11-$12 an hour couldn't even begin to pay for, but you're coming out to the worst job market in decades and competing with low-cost overseas competition that have the same skillset that you have?

[whatthehey]

22. uh, I responded to the article without naming you.

Again I believe the min wage should be increased substantially. I just disagree with using productivity to support that.

[marions ghost]

18. That graph shows very clearly...

Reagan Era.

[Capt. Obvious]

13. How many of you very liberal friends in a very liberal city that have this view

make min wage?

[taught_me_patience]

14. I own a coffee shop and employ people at minimum wage

Even my employees don't think minimum wage should be $15/hr.

[Samantha]

8. If the general public on the workers' side boycotted fast food eateries

that would be a big help. What would prompt these companies to raise their workers' wages would be when they start to see a huge drop in their incoming revenues over boycotts.

Sam

[whatthehey]

16. Well that would help the minimum wage employees lose even that wage first.

I'm nobody's idea of Gordon Gekko, but even I wouldn't employ people with nothing to do, and even I can see a problem with "Revenue down big time? Increase labor costs!" as a business strategy.

Positive reinforcement and targeted action may work better. Send back the torn-up Sam's card with a picture of your new Costco card and a note why. I don't know enough about QSRs to know if there is an analog.

[marions ghost]

19. If that's the owner's response it has to be risked

because you can't change anything otherwise. Most owners don't want declining business because they know that's a snowball going downhill....so together the workers have power.

These workers need a union. And we need to support that.

[librechik]

17. There is little memory left of the long, BLOODY battle it took for basic worker rights in the US

It won't be any easier to take them back once they are removed.

I'm afraid we are going to have to try very hard in solidarity to make any progress in this area. Management and owners are more powerful than ever. It might not even be possible nowadays, as the OP says. The opponent is truly ruthless and has many citizens bamboozled to be on their side!

trying not to be too pessimistic, but the fascistic cycle seems inevitable, in history. We're there now--we just don't have all the acting out of the elites yet. That will grow and suffocate us, like Pompeii

[Aerows]

20. CEO wages increased by 300% in the last ten years.

That would make minimum wage at $22/hr. But the blessed by all that is Holy Job Creators cannot survive on their minimal pay without having to sell a yacht.

Let's have restrictive abortion laws so that there is a constant influx of low paid labor, desperate for a job, instead of this greedy horrible workforce of hundreds of thousands demanding an increase in wages.

If they wanted better wages, they should have been born to the right family©.

Every dollar that is donated to a worker that shouldn't even get paid that much should be considered a gift.