I don't know why she married him

[malaise]

All I know is that I wasn't marrying anyone who hit me - let alone who beat me up the way we saw on that video.
Please help me out.

Perhaps I have no understanding on these matters. I have never been abused or beaten.
I am not making any excuse for this violent scumbag, but was she forced to marry him?
Why did she marry him after that experience?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. It's possible that she felt he was all she deserved.

That she wasn't good enough for a truly good man.

I've read that women with low self-esteem often feel this way.

[WhiteTara]

26. And he beats that message into her daily.

He tells her that no one else would ever lover her at all.

[KittyWampus]

2. Malaise, it usually starts slow. The guy dictating who she can see, what she can eat.

It escalates.

There are "tells" which women usually ignore and even if a friend or family member tells them… they won't listen.

Cause they are experiencing the "joy of the moment". The intense feelings we get when something or someone is new.

[malaise]

7. But they were high school sweethearts

Nothing was new here. I am trying to understand what would make a woman marry a man after a beating like that. What joy is there in violence? Violence must have been part of that relationship for a long time.

Decades ago I lost two close friends when the boyfriend of the older one threw both of them out of a window in a New York hotel because she dared to end their relationship. She had endured years of violence despite all our advice and finally she broke it off in the presence of a male family friend and her sister. When the family friend left the room thinking everything was OK - he attacked them and killed them. There was no violence in her upbringing before she got involved with that scumbag. Then the coward jumped in front of the subway train in Brooklyn and committed suicide. One slap and it is time to say goodbye.

[Gormy Cuss]

70. The violence may have started even in high school.

It may be a very long pattern of abuse. We just don't know.

[PeaceNikki]

3. You can't understand if you've never been in an abusive cycle.

When you're abused, you start to believe them when they tell you are worthless and unwanted.

You believe them when they say they will hurt/kill you, themselves or your children if you leave.

You know that getting out will include a period of it being far worse before it gets better, and the idea of it being worse is paralyzing.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/09/living/rice-video-why-i-stayed/index.html?hpt=hp_bn11

[kelliekat44]

31. They had a child. Security for her and her child possible her thinking. nt

[catbyte]

4. I am guessing financial security. He had a $44M contract and she's pregnant.

Sad, whatever the reason.

[NYC_SKP]

5. I don't think we'll ever know. Nobody on DU knows, that's for certain.

If I had to make a guess, I'd guess that there's some attraction to professional athletes, but I don't know if it's the game, the looks, the income, the swagger, or what.

I was never interested in celebrity types, but I know some are.

Also, there may be some sense of security, as false as sense as it may be, that can be attractive.

I'll confess that I married the wrong woman for similar reasons, she had a stable career history and I had wanderlust, so I thought it made sense. It didn't last, but she left not me, and I was struck by her more than once but never struck back.

People are different, people are insecure, and people are drawn to other people in ways and for reasons you and I might never understand, malaise.

I'm glad to be me and I'm glad you're you, and that neither of us are now in such a violent relationship.

[malaise]

14. Like you I have avoided the celebrity types all my life

And yes people are drawn to each other for a wide variety of reasons but I still find tolerating violence hard to fathom.
I do know that it's hard to get away from abusers who are obsessed with a partner - but what has me scratching my head is why marry him.
To stop her from testifying against him is a reason a friend suggested but that would be his thinking not hers.
Why? Why? Why?

[justiceischeap]

6. There are probably as many reasons as there are

ways of asking why.

There have been several threads highlighting various reasons why the abused stay with their partners but I think it mostly comes down to low self-esteem because someone who values themselves is not going to stay. For some women it takes a long time to acquire that value, some never do.

[Sheldon Cooper]

8. Seriously? After the dozens of threads and posts explaining why women stay, you

still don't get it? The information is out there, if your mind is open to it. Look, it's okay if you could never picture yourself in such a situation, but I don't believe that you are completely incapable of understanding that others are not exactly like you.

[PeaceNikki]

9. this ^

[malaise]

10. No I still don't get it

I know lots of people are not like me - I just don't get why someone in a violent relationship would then marry the abuser. I am trying to understand it and it is very hard to process.

[PeaceNikki]

12. It's a dark place to be. There is a whole Twitter feed on it. Here are a few:

@ReIgniteRomance #whyIstayed I only knew how to live in the darkness of silence & secrets

@MasterPiece83 #WhyIStayed because hope is like quicksand when dealing with abuse. The more u hope he changes the deeper you sink into believing it

@boudoir_studio #whyistayed because you really DON'T know how bad it is until you get out of it. Love & support from others is needed to build up bravery.

@PeaceNikki You know leaving will include a period of being worse before it gets better & the idea of it being worse is paralyzing. #whyistayed

@dylanobrienfave Why are we asking women to explain #whyistayed & #WhyILeft? Shouldn't we be asking men why they abuse?


And a video you should watch if you really and truly are interested: http://www.ted.com/talks/leslie_morgan_steiner_why_domestic_violence_victims_don_t_leave?awesm=on.ted.com_Steiner&utm_source=t.co&utm_content=awesm-publisher&utm_medium=on.ted.com-static&utm_campaign=

[malaise]

17. But those women left eventually!

And I definitely want to know why men abuse women. I am not letting one of them off the hook but this is not some arranged marriage we're talking about

[PeaceNikki]

20. It can take years and years. And sometimes the light is completely out of sight.

[cwydro]

13. I don't get it either.

I think there is a lot at work here other than the "victim" mentality that Du embraces so wholeheartedly.

People do things for lots of reasons.

She was not married when that happened. She does not look like a woman who is cowed or afraid on a daily basis. She looks like a strong woman.

I will not presume to guess her reasons. But I don't have to. Because DU has already decided who she is, what she thinks, and why she does what she does.

[missingthebigdog]

76. Perhaps she CHOSE this

I know there are many, many reasons why people stay with partners who abuse them. Maybe they don't know better; maybe they are isolated, or have low self esteem, or don't have resources, or hope it will get better. Her reason could be any of these things.

Or maybe she is a strong, confident, otherwise sane person who, despite knowing the odds, and despite having the support and resources to leave, has chosen to stay. I do not agree with that choice, but believe that she has the right to make it.

[uppityperson]

29. It starts gradually and once it reaches that point, you are so isolated and emotionally manipulated

you feel you have no choice. You are nothing. You will have no one without him. You are lucky he still sees anything good about you.

I hid my bruises. I hid for the month it took my broken nose to heal. I compensated for my cracked ribs. When he threw me on the ground and stomped me for the sin of locking the car door as he tried to get at me for the sin of showing up at a party he was going to take me to and didn't? That scared me enough to tell and get help as I knew the next time I might die.

Why did I stay so long? Because I had no friends left. They were stupid, ugly, were not good enough for me, only he was good enough for me, and then the violent actions began, gradually building. His friends? They laughed as he told me how full of shit I was. I was full of shit, believing what he thought of me. Now I wonder why he would stay with me if he thought that little of me.

If I admitted what was happening, people would ask wtf was wrong with me to put up with it for so long (including me).

It starts gradually and can be extremely difficult to end.

[PeaceNikki]

33. .

And all the while, he isolates you from family and friends.

I'm so sorry.

[uppityperson]

36. Thank you, it was a long time ago and I am still pissed

I found him on facebook, sent a note saying "remember me?" and was immediately blocked. It was long ago, not a time when there was legal help. All this is bringing it back up, and trying to explain and educate that it is complicated.

Thank you Nikki

[PeaceNikki]

38. Yeah, me, too. coworkers engaged in an infuriating conversation about it today

Right in front of me. I wanted to scream and cry. People don't get it and I'm really fed up with the ones who don't even try and focus on what she can or should do. It's paralyzing. And dark. And cold and lonely.

[uppityperson]

40. thank you for speaking out

to you

[malaise]

48. I am trying

and I understand how hard it is to leave but cannot understand why she married him after that horrific violence

[PeaceNikki]

52. We don't know her specific reasons and may never. Many survivors are sharing their stories about why

they/we stayed. It's important to try to empathize and understand how dark and lonely it is. One thing I can say with 100% certainty is that that type of abuse *ALWAYS* goes hand in hand with serious emotional abuse. That's not speculation, it is a fact.

People who immediately assume it's money or stupidity are being seriously offensive and hurtful to all of us who have ever been abused more than once. I was married to an abuser for 9 long and dark years. Getting out was all I wanted but I knew I would have to leave everything I knew and loved: The home I made and bought with *my* money because his went up his nose or to the local liquor store, my friends, my job and take my son away from everything he ever knew. I had to move to another state or I knew he'd hurt me or my son. In retrospect, I wish I had done it years sooner, but it doesn't make me an idiot.

[malaise]

53. I will never call a victim of domestic violence an idiot

You were brave to move and you did.

I guess I will never know why she married him.

[PeaceNikki]

54. Thanks. Here's another really good piece on the topic. Take a few moments and read through it.

http://www.commdiginews.com/sports/why-janay-rice-and-other-domestic-violence-victims-dont-leave-18179/

[malaise]

39. Thanks for your input

and I am glad you got out alive

[raven mad]

66. Been there, uppityperson.

I got out, too, with a lot of loss. A lot.

I gave up literally everything, finally, just to get away from the constant pain. This was before DV was considered to be anything but a "family" issue. Then it wasn't, and when I sought police help? They were his friends, buddies from childhood.

I ran. It took me 15 years, but I finally ran.

[bettyellen]

60. I know what you mean- I cannot understand it on a visceral level. I was raised to stand up for

myself. I was raised to be able to handle independence and keep my distance from people who tried to control me of treated me with disrespect. I have had a lot of red flaggy dates with controlling dudes and never went back for more.

That said, I used to have an older (female) cousin who was my closest friend since teen years. We were roommates for a short time. She became more and more controlling and abusive- not hitting me, but trying to control how I spent my time, who I saw, even what I thought. I thought it was big sisterly at first, and we did have similar tastes, so it didn't seem that odd. I was raised that being a tight family was very important, and I had lost three siblings, and she sort of stepped in and became my sister.
A lot of my friends never liked her, and I made a million excuses for asshole behavior. But no one said what they really thought, that she was actually manipulating me in some very big ways. It took some ugly behavior for me to snap out of it, and realize I actually disliked her very much. Unbeknown to me, she once pimped me out to a big magazine editor so she could get coverage in his magazine. She had prodded me, bought me shots and pushed us together- she knew I was happy to sleep with him- and she told him I only would if she got her movie promoted. I had no fucking idea until the next morning when he told me she would get her story in his magazine now. He was disgusted when he realized I had no idea she'd made that deal with him. He told me she was a sicko to do that, and it took me a while, my brain still made excuses for her- but now I agree. I had to see a few big examples of what a sociopath she was (mainly to other people, because I started to stand my ground) in this new light- before I told her to fuck off. Just pimping me out like that wasn't enough. Weird, isn't it? I think a person often needs a few wake up calls to lose the love they had. I really do.
Strangely enough, my family pushed me for years to reconcile and made me feel guilty for dumping her too. They all gaslighted me as if she was a great girl. I never told anyone the pimping story, because they literally would not believe me. SHe was a world class manipulator, and tried to make me look like a crazy pants- to my own family. Sociopaths can do a LOT of damage.

[NYC_SKP]

27. What? Nobody here can speak for Janay Rice. Nobody lives in her skin.

William Ayers said something like, "Every person is an expert in their own experience".

Nobody here should really dare speak for Janay Rice, and those think they can prove, by doing so, that they know nothing about it.

Sure, there are certain commonalities among victims of spousal abuse, but there are always exceptions, too.

And, in any event, each person is a unique individual with complex experiences and influences.

[Cleita]

11. Maybe she loves him and thinks she can change him.

Many women make that mistake. They think they can turn lead into gold.

[Warpy]

21. Oxytocin. It lies to us worse than alcohol does

It's the hormone that makes us sloppily in love to the point like ignoring gigantic faults like knocking us out and dumping us on the sidewalk like garbage are commonplace. Our love will change him.

Yeah, right.

Instead of reading our girl children "The Beauty and the Beast," maybe we need to substitute "The Woman and the Snake."

[malaise]

24. I guess loving self more than a partner is the only solution

[bettyellen]

61. I think you might be onto something. My brother had a moment of clarity about that

(while he was involved in a cultish group, which I hated...but) and I thought it was really good for him to feel that way.
But he lost his connection to the group, and that understanding too, and slid further into alcoholism. That is his oxy now.
Some people hve to cling to something- and that is hard for me to understand.

[malaise]

65. You're right - some people have to cling to something

I know several people who jump from one obsession into another - religion, politics, drugs. Still when you think about it, it's hard to be strong on this messed up planet.

[bettyellen]

77. Yep and I am the opposite. If I feel anything is getting a grip on me, I step back from it.

So it's hard fro me to understand. But when I was writing to you about my cousin above, I remembered the enormous pressure my family put on me to stay good friends with her and it must be much the same for a lot of wives. And I used to be more of an anything goes to get along person when I was younger, but my cousin went to far and it changed me. The pressure went on for years, even though I was not making a big deal of it-I would stay cordial face to face and not impact family gatherings or anything. And then she went on a big campaign against me, turning my sister in law against me and my brothers against each other. If she can't have something, no one can! She and her Mom really made a shambles of my family. I'm so glad to have nothing to do with them.

[Blue_In_AK]

41. Indeed.

That's why I stayed in an abusive relationship for almost 20 years. I did love the guy, I still care about what happens to him, and he's the father of my youngest child. I would never wish him ill.

I keep telling people that relationships are complex and even the abuser is seldom one-dimensional. My ex had family-of-origin issues that I completely understood. It didn't make it okay for him to fly off the handle at me, but at least in my own case I knew it was his issue, not mine. I never felt worthless or helpless or any of those other victim-blaming descriptors that are being thrown around. I just cared about him, and I hoped he would change.

He didn't in time, and by then there was too much water under the bridge, our ways of dealing with each other had become too toxic, and we both realized it was time to call it quits. Our divorce was much more amicable than our marriage had been. He has never given me one bit of trouble since then.

I know this is just one example and my experience isn't the same as anyone else's, but the victim-shaming should stop. She has her own reasons for staying in the relationship that none of us know or should even speculate upon.

[malaise]

49. Thanks Blue_In_AK

[moriah]

15. Because abusers are highly manipulative.

I'm sure he knew all the right things to say to make her feel like it was her fault, that she was really truly lucky to have someone who loved her so much that when he got so angry or jealous he just couldn't control himself, that it'll be the last time, after all, he promised...

[rocktivity]

18. They've known each other since age 16, started dating in college

Last edited Wed Sep 10, 2014, 11:02 AM - Edit history (1)

have been living together, and had a daughter in 2012.

As for why she married him, take your pick:

Because she still loves him, and you don't leave people you love.

Because she doesn't have anywhere she wanted to go if she left him.

Because she doesn't want to be without a man -- any is better than none.

Because she doesn't want to be without a rich man.

Because she doesn't have the psychological energy or self-confidence to replace him if she left him.

Because she doesn't want to be alone with a child.

Because rejecting him would be tantamount to admitting that she was wrong to accept him.

A sympathy-generating legal maneuver: she has "obviously" forgiven him, therefore, there was no crime.

A divorce settlement-generating legal maneuver: now she's guaranteed to end up with half his fortune, at least.

Because she grew up with domestic violence.

Because ignorance is bliss.

Because denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

Because she's looking at it as an isolated incident and believes she can save him.

Because he told her he'd kill her if she left.

Because she KNOWS he would kill her if she left.

rocktivity

[malaise]

22. Thoughtful

Thanks rocktivity

[cwydro]

51. best post ever

[Sweet Freedom]

67. One more

Because he'd kill her and get away with it if she didn't.

[rocktivity]

69. Thought of that that late last night

and didn't add only because I had an 8AM appointment.


rocktivity

[Starry Messenger]

19. Stockholm syndrome.

http://counsellingresource.com/lib/therapy/self-help/stockholm/

[MoonRiver]

23. I wouldn't have done it either.

But maybe she saw her mother being abused and just thought this was "normal?" That is one possibility. There are many others, such as the possibility that she has incredibly low self-esteem, brought on by childhood abuse.

[malaise]

25. True

but her mother's generation did not have the support system that exists today for victims of domestic abuse and even then we know mothers who left with their children.

Something has to be done about patriarchal institutional support for violence against women - and religious institutions are part of the problem.

[MoonRiver]

37. Absolutely!

And the sick societal tolerance for men in sports who abuse has got to end. Sorry, apologies are NOT enough.

[malaise]

46. I agree

What I'd like is an investigation into steroid use and violence.

[MoonRiver]

47. That is definitely a huge problem, and source of violence against self and others

among athletes. But the sports docs feed them whatever it takes to WIN, ugh.

[malaise]

50. And that's a major problem

how does a game become more important than violence against women and children?
It's all about money - as usual.

[MoonRiver]

55. That attitude permeates this entire sick society.

High school kids can't even go to school later in the morning, which virtually ALL pediatricians say is in their best interests (so they can get more sleep) because that would interfere with after school sports!

[Blue_In_AK]

28. Maybe she loves him.

Stranger things have happened.

[Marrah_G]

30. It's pretty typical for a battered woman

A couple searches online for battered women should explain it for you.

[merrily]

32. Too many threads on this. Nowhere near enough asking why he hit her.

[DeadLetterOffice]

34. Oh goddess how I LOVE YOU.

[merrily]

44. Thank you.

[PeaceNikki]

35. Amen.

[uppityperson]

42. Let's see what happens here. I am on and off line today so can't guarentee fast reply

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025511219

[malaise]

43. He hit her because men get away with abusing women

every second of the day and men in high places in critical institutions give them a pass. Patriarchy facilitates male dominance and the abuse of women. Looks like the tide is changing at last.

[onecent]

45. Money? Security? (so she thought)

[DinahMoeHum]

56. Malaise, they have a 2-yr-old daughter together.

And while there's absolutely no excuse for the way he assaulted her, we, the public, have absolutely no idea whether there was a previous pattern of abuse OR if this was a one-time incident fueled by alcohol consumption.

We the public are NOT privy to EVERY part of their private life; we the public are only privy to what was caught on tape that night.

http://heavy.com/news/2014/02/ray-rice-fiancee-girlfriend-janay-palmer/

FYG, they first met many years ago while they were in different high schools: Ray in New Rochelle HS, and Janay in neighboring Mt Vernon HS. They had been going steady through his years at Rutgers and then while he was in the NFL.

Maybe money had something to do with it - but I severely doubt that Janay was in any way a "gold-digger". Maybe there were problems brewing where they couldn't handle that massive amount of $$$ in such a short time - and remember, Ray had signed on to a new massive contract in 2012 after his team won the Super Bowl.

Maybe the alcohol they allegedly consumed that night brought the matters to a head.

One thing's for sure, both of them damn well better be in counseling right now - not just for themselves, but for their daughter Rayven.

Given the fallout from all this, it's probably better for everybody concerned that Ray Rice is in a forced "time-out" from his NFL career. My guess is that it will be at least a year before the NFL re-instates him.

[ladyVet]

57. Unless she tells us, we likely will never know.

I stayed because of my children. Every book and article I read said divorce was horrible for children, that it would ruin their lives. By that point, I believed it. I believed our bad marriage was my fault, that him not loving me was my fault, that I was the worse mother ever.

I was lucky, I guess, in that I was not physically abused. A man I dated after I finally got a divorce asked me if the ex had ever beaten me. I said no, all my scars are on the inside. They hurt just as much. They damage just as much.

After the divorce, the ex told our sons that I left him just because I didn't want to be married any more. In a way, it was true, but once again it put the blame all on me. I finally broke down and told them what had been going on, about his continuous affairs while claiming to be a Christian; how he used to bring me to tears with his talk about the Rapture and how one day I would look around and he and the boys would be gone to Heaven. How I would go to Hell because I wouldn't be a "good" wife and go to church, because I wouldn't believe the crap he did. I used to wish I'd turn around and find him gone, because I was already in Hell, and it couldn't be much worse than this.

I left the Air Force, turning down a promotion and the opportunity to transfer into any job I wanted, because he threatened to take my children away from me and that I would never see them again, all because I would have to take a year's transfer to Korea without the family. And I knew he would do it, because his pastor and church would help him. They told me so, more than once.

I so distrust my ability to chose a good man that I refuse to ever date again. Those match making commercials about how the perfect one for me is out there? I always yell out that he'd better quit looking and settle for second-best, because I'm not interested.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

58. you dont get it because you dont want to get it

what a shitty holier than thou position.

[840high]

63. It was an honest question.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

71. LOL. unless you are malaise, i dont see quite how you can know that.

[malaise]

73. It was

[La Lioness Priyanka]

75. yes, and i stick by my statement, you are trying hard to not understand this

much like many people here try hard not to understand white privilege and other such things, no matter how many people explain it and no matter how clearly it is explained.

[Texasgal]

59. I hate to say this but seriously?

Do you have any idea what women of violent arrangements face? She has children by this man! She could be scared to death! This is a man that has money and influence.

Did you ever stop to think she may have nowhere else to go? That she has children with this man and is scared? How do we know that he hasn't threatened her more?

Disappointed because I generally enjoy your posts.

[840high]

62. She has no family?

[mackerel]

64. I read that they were childhood sweethearts. Conditioning when young.

[Bettie]

68. Domestic Abuse and Stockholm Syndrome have a lot in common

http://counsellingresource.com/lib/therapy/self-help/stockholm/

Excerpt from above article:
While the psychological condition in hostage situations became known as “Stockholm Syndrome” due to the publicity, the emotional “bonding” with captors was a familiar story in psychology. It had been recognized many years before and was found in studies of other hostage, prisoner, or abusive situations such as:

Abused Children
Battered/Abused Women
Prisoners of War
Cult Members
Incest Victims
Criminal Hostage Situations
Concentration Camp Prisoners
Controlling/Intimidating Relationships

In the final analysis, emotionally bonding with an abuser is actually a strategy for survival for victims of abuse and intimidation. The “Stockholm Syndrome” reaction in hostage and/or abuse situations is so well recognized at this time that police hostage negotiators no longer view it as unusual. In fact, it is often encouraged in crime situations as it improves the chances for survival of the hostages. On the down side, it also assures that the hostages experiencing “Stockholm Syndrome” will not be very cooperative during rescue or criminal prosecution. Local law enforcement personnel have long recognized this syndrome with battered women who fail to press charges, bail their battering husband/boyfriend out of jail, and even physically attack police officers when they arrive to rescue them from a violent assault.

[Katashi_itto]

72. sorry trashing..with climate change, a war looming...this is her problem

[pnwmom]

74. Maybe, from her experience growing up, she thinks all men are like that. n/t