Freaking wow! The thinking of the neo-Nazis in Ukraine

[malaise]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis
<snip>
"I have nothing against Russian nationalists, or a great Russia," said Dmitry, as we sped through the dark Mariupol night in a pick-up truck, a machine gunner positioned in the back. "But Putin's not even a Russian. Putin's a Jew."

Dmitry – which he said is not his real name – is a native of east Ukraine and a member of the Azov battalion, a volunteer grouping that has been doing much of the frontline fighting in Ukraine's war with pro-Russian separatists.

The Azov, one of many volunteer brigades to fight alongside the Ukrainian army in the east of the country, has developed a reputation for its fearlessness in battle.

But there is an increasing worry that while the Azov and other volunteer battalions might be Ukraine's most potent and reliable force on the battlefield against the separatists, they also pose the most serious threat to the Ukrainian government, and perhaps even the state, when the conflict in the east is over. The Azov causes particular concern due to the far-right, even neo-Nazi leanings of many of its members.

[newfie11]

1. Is this the people the US wants to support? Nt

[tridim]

4. I support the Ukrainians, not the neo-Nazi idiots.

It's not that hard to understand.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

6. The Azov Battallion is a fully private militia unafilliated with the government.

While there are disturbing neo-Nazi leanings amongst some of its members, they are a relatively small group.

Yes. Unfortunately there are neo-Nazis in this world. Everywhere. Including Ukraine. And the US. And Russia. And amongst the pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine's east.

It's silly to think of the pro-Russian separatist movement in the east as a fight against fascism or neo-Nazi ideology. Just see how quickly one of the pro-Russian apologists cites to the Vineyard of the Saker blog without a whiff of irony.

[stevenleser]

2. We Jews are touched regarding this sudden interest in anti-semitism in Eastern Europe.

It has always been there. It's worse in Russia.

However, it smacks of disingenuous-ness when a sudden interest like this happens to coincide with the ideology some seem desperate to push.

[HERVEPA]

3. You nailed it Steven!

[geek tragedy]

10. Especially when they link to Holocaust

denial and white supremacists.

[geek tragedy]

5. Mild stuff compared to the stuff

found at the blog of choice of our resident Putinistas, a Christo-fascist site called the vineyard saker.

Also, Russia sponsors the biggest Neo-Nazi parties, e.g. Jobbik, in Eastern Europe.

[edhopper]

7. You convinced me

this man, who doesn't even give his real name, who is part of an unaffiliated group in East Ukraine, MUST speak for the entire country of Ukraine. I mean, doesn't Clive Bundy speak for all Americans?

The Russian apologists here are getting desperate.

[meMeMEEEE]

8. good article

'..not everyone in the Azov battalion thinks like Dmitry..'
'..The Azov are a minority among the Ukrainian forces'

some guy(s) in some unit of the Ukrainian army is a Nazi
freaking wow indeed

[edhopper]

9. It's not even the Ukraine army

it's a non-affiliated militia.

[Bad Thoughts]

11. The enemy of my enemy is NOT my friend

The fact that there are antisemites among a group of Ukrainian nationalists neither condemns Ukrainian nationalism as a whole or exhonerates Russian actions in eastern Ukraine. Russia has deep social problems not just with antisemitism, but with xenophobia and racism in general. Indeed, members of Putin's party have been recorded making such statements. Putin's support for Netanyahu cannot be seen as a general amnity with Jews around the world, but a condoning of methods that Putin would use himself.

Moreover, I despise when people use my ethnicity, whether as a Jew or as Latino, as a their political tool. You may oppose antisemitism in Ukraine, but you cannot use that to bend my political values to your ends.

[edhopper]

12. The "freaking Wow"

is that the OP thought this was a big, game changing story and not a piece of Pro-Putin propaganda.

[Dems to Win]

13. If my govt unleashed the Azov battalion on my town, damn straight I'd fight back

The Azov fly the flag of Hitler's SS, the wolf symbol.

I would never, ever, agree to be part of that country again.

DUers can type all kinds of eloquent posts saying that Ukraine's govt is just a bit fascist, but they are probably not going to convince the people of eastern Ukraine.

I don't want my government arming fascist brigades anywhere.

ETA a quote from another Guardian article:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/08/donetsk-pro-russia-rebels-ukrainian-junta

In Donetsk, there was anger and resolution among the 1,500-strong crowd who had gathered at the rally.

"We loved Ukraine until they started bombing us, now we can never go back there," said Zinaida, a 58-year-old local. "They are fascists and they have your support. We read that you have Scotland wanting to secede there. Why don't you send your tanks there and destroy them instead of sending them here? We will be part of Russia now and will never go back to those fascists."

[meMeMEEEE]

14. You won't

If your town gets occupied by a combination of Russian military, mercs from Chechnya and local armed thugs (which is what happened to Donetsk), who would then loot and burn the place (Donbass Area and Metro incidents) and harass the locals (like Iryna Dovgan, that's the activist referenced in your article) you would either leave the place or hope for the Gov to send in the troops, Azov or not

Glad you gave the special emphasis to Zinaida's quote, she seems to be under the impression that the UK tanks are in the area, kind of undermines her to ability to adequately assess the situation in terms of who the real fascists are

[geek tragedy]

15. imagine that, in an area controlled by armed Russian killers, people

speak out in favor of Russia.