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Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 10:30 AM Sep 2014

So Glenn Greenwald is allowed to openly campaign for political candidates now?

Last edited Mon Sep 15, 2014, 07:03 PM - Edit history (1)



UPDATE: I didn't anticipate there being so much meat on this bone...

But let's be real: If ANY other big-name journalist shilled this hard (appearing in person, no less) for a political candidate (who just happens to be a friend of his) and intentionally sat on a story for over a YEAR until a time that it would have the biggest benefit for a friend, Greenwald (and all of DU) would lose his fucking mind...He'd write 10 columns in a week screeching about how that person was bought-and-paid for, and a disgrace to the profession for such flagrant sucking up to power...This stunt Greenwald pulled was a new low in dirty-trick cowardly yellow journalism, and we all know it...

So, because I still don't have an answer, for the millionth time I must ask: Why is Glenn Greenwald allowed to get away with it? What gives him free reign to constantly disregard any semblance of conscious for journalistic professionalism, truthful reporting, writing standards, objectivity and compromising conflicts of interest? All this time why has he be able to simultaneously ridicule journalists who adhere to the 'old' rules AND mercilessly condemn them on the rare occasion that they break those rules??
(For the record, I did ask Greenwald these questions on Twitter, and he put me on mute)

The man is a living contradiction, and his enablers are only pushing him closer to the cliff's edge...After the unquestioned success of this test case in Auckland, don't delude yourselves by believing for a minute that he and Snowden aren't planning to torpedo the Dem nominee in '16 with an "October surprise", especially if Rand is the GOP challenger...You read it here first...
107 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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So Glenn Greenwald is allowed to openly campaign for political candidates now? (Original Post) Blue_Tires Sep 2014 OP
Why not? Is he a charity? nt GliderGuider Sep 2014 #1
He's allowed treestar Sep 2014 #2
Has he ever claimed to be disinterested? GliderGuider Sep 2014 #3
"Advocacy journalism" is just some bullshit marketing term Greenwald invented Blue_Tires Sep 2014 #6
............... marmar Sep 2014 #12
It's distinguishable from propaganda, why? treestar Sep 2014 #84
Ida Tarbell helped bring down John D. Rockefeller, Sr. and Standard Oil. WorseBeforeBetter Sep 2014 #94
Too many of them think they are going to be treestar Sep 2014 #98
To what are you specifically referring? WorseBeforeBetter Sep 2014 #100
you're wrong. nt La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #16
Greenwald invented advocacy journalism like Gore invented the internet! Lol! sabrina 1 Sep 2014 #48
You forget Caretha Sep 2014 #78
Bullshit. Fawke Em Sep 2014 #96
That is the key, and why most journalist NEVER indicate who they will support still_one Sep 2014 #18
Then 234 other journalists and hard newspeople are also biased... riderinthestorm Sep 2014 #24
I dont understand, did Greenwald openly campaign for someone? randys1 Sep 2014 #31
You know, that's a good question. I just ASSumed, the OP was factual riderinthestorm Sep 2014 #33
He can do what he wants, but to compare him to rank and file journalists would make zero randys1 Sep 2014 #39
What exactly is he doing? Do you know what the OP is about? riderinthestorm Sep 2014 #40
No, assume he is supporting Rand Paul but not sure randys1 Sep 2014 #41
So you don't even know and are just assuming its shit?! riderinthestorm Sep 2014 #43
No, my only reason to respond was to point out how ridiculous it would be to compare randys1 Sep 2014 #46
If you think it's Rand Paul, you've bought into the anti-Greenwald propaganda... it's this Luminous Animal Sep 2014 #44
No. I don't see why any journalist needs to interpret things for us treestar Sep 2014 #85
Went out the window when the Fairness Doctrine did. JimDandy Sep 2014 #77
Who does he think he is--a corporation?!1!! pinboy3niner Sep 2014 #4
Why would he not be? MineralMan Sep 2014 #5
Who is he supporting? djean111 Sep 2014 #7
Apparently not the OP's preferred candidate in some race. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Sep 2014 #28
My guess is Not Hillary, but ya never know djean111 Sep 2014 #30
I am curious also. No one seems to answer and there are no links. rurallib Sep 2014 #29
Why wouldn't he be? CentralMass Sep 2014 #8
Yes. n/t Autumn Sep 2014 #9
And? So? marmar Sep 2014 #10
No, the BOG should citizen arrest him now! bobduca Sep 2014 #11
+1 Warren Stupidity Sep 2014 #26
Lol. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2014 #27
He has been weighed in the BOG and found wanting! QC Sep 2014 #35
LOL m-lekktor Sep 2014 #53
Is your moniker Dutch for "Delicious" or something like that? 2banon Sep 2014 #70
haha. nope. there is a "dark electro"/ industrial band named m-lekktor Sep 2014 #73
Hee, hee. "lekker" means delicious, yummy, tasty etc. 2banon Sep 2014 #92
heh heh heh Capt. Obvious Sep 2014 #56
Throw him in the pond! What else floats in water? leftstreet Sep 2014 #64
stupid comment treestar Sep 2014 #86
BOG BOG BOG BOG bobduca Sep 2014 #87
It seems quite logical for the BOG not to like Glenn treestar Sep 2014 #88
I'm in the library's quiet room and I LOL'd. WorseBeforeBetter Sep 2014 #95
Shocking isn't it? Sometimes they even vote too!!,11!! riderinthestorm Sep 2014 #13
Allowed? AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #14
Link? Context? Old socks? randome Sep 2014 #15
and so what if he is? are you really mad about that or are you just using that as an excuse La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #17
I think the argument is most journalists do not openly advocate a particular candidate to portray still_one Sep 2014 #19
Many actually do openly campaign including giving a lot of cash riderinthestorm Sep 2014 #21
Important information, thank you.. 2banon Sep 2014 #71
i still dont believe that this is why we are mad at him. we are mad at him for exposing Obama La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #22
"The emperor has no clothes" has never been a popular observation... nt GliderGuider Sep 2014 #25
I choose Option #2. n/t QC Sep 2014 #23
Why would anyone be mad about Glenn "exposing" whatever? treestar Sep 2014 #89
because a lot of democrats are. prior to his exposing this info, i didnt see any thread about La Lioness Priyanka Sep 2014 #90
In the tradition of muckrakers. Downwinder Sep 2014 #20
Why wouldn't he be? Iggo Sep 2014 #32
Nobody seems to know what you're talking about. Le Taz Hot Sep 2014 #34
*Allowed* hahaha!!! Luminous Animal Sep 2014 #36
Blue Tires admits it -- last night's thread... grasswire Sep 2014 #37
for your convenience, here's the text of that OP grasswire Sep 2014 #38
As I suspected. Blue Tires has nothing. Luminous Animal Sep 2014 #42
My brain just died. WilliamPitt Sep 2014 #45
I lulz'd KG Sep 2014 #47
Sure, and we are allowed to judge him on the choice and what the choice means regarding stevenleser Sep 2014 #49
Do your research, journalist Leser, before you assume. This is about New Zealand politics. Luminous Animal Sep 2014 #50
So you are going to tell me he is not for Rand Paul? nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #52
do you have any links with references demonstrating that Glenn Greenwald is supporting Rand Paul? Douglas Carpenter Sep 2014 #58
I'll do a Fox News google search and see what I can come up with. Luminous Animal Sep 2014 #59
Excellent. Let us know. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #60
Oh wait, here's your boy now... stevenleser Sep 2014 #61
You were alerted, I voted to leave it alone. NYC_SKP Sep 2014 #76
Irony is lost on Foxy Steve LondonReign2 Sep 2014 #62
Well, if a Greenwald fanboy slams me for appearing on Fox, turnabout is fair play, no? nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #63
You really need to quit when you are behind LondonReign2 Sep 2014 #65
I'm not behind. The exchange went over your head. nt stevenleser Sep 2014 #66
Those keen journalist skills of yours are amazing LondonReign2 Sep 2014 #67
You keep swatting at me like a blindfolded 2 year old at a pinata 10 feet in the air. stevenleser Sep 2014 #68
How about New Zealand anyway? LondonReign2 Sep 2014 #69
I really don't care if you appear on fox news. I was referring to your level of Luminous Animal Sep 2014 #82
How do you know? Do you have any links? pnwmom Sep 2014 #104
The word "Aukland" is a big hint. Luminous Animal Sep 2014 #105
Who is Mr Greenwald now openly campaigning for? I have no idea what your are referring to. Douglas Carpenter Sep 2014 #51
I suppose anyone is allowed to campaign for political candidates! LeftishBrit Sep 2014 #54
So Blue Tires just makes an assertion & doesn't back it up w/evidence? Demit Sep 2014 #55
spaghetti against the wall! grasswire Sep 2014 #57
Kim Dotcom is not a candidate. He can't be one because he is not a NZ citizen. Luminous Animal Sep 2014 #72
Rush Holt's a good progressive. It was annoying seeing people get excited about Chathamization Sep 2014 #83
Got a link? All I see is an acusation with nothing to back it up. Autumn Sep 2014 #74
I know. Just imagine if Dan Rather had spoke at a political fundraiser in Texas in 2001, hughee99 Sep 2014 #75
! Luminous Animal Sep 2014 #81
R#1 & K for, am I *really* the #1 R for this?!1 n/t UTUSN Sep 2014 #79
Y2k ftw ======D bobduca Sep 2014 #80
Does it really annoy you that much that he spoke against the centre-right NZ PM? muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #91
Yes! We should all support John Key! Now! Fuck the new Zealanders and their pathetic djean111 Sep 2014 #102
Epilogue: Blue_Tires Sep 2014 #93
And this makes you happy? Electric Monk Sep 2014 #99
The important thing here, of course, is not the New Zealanders, silly, it is that Greenwald is djean111 Sep 2014 #101
So, you're agreeing with George Bush's Assistant Secretary at the DHS? muriel_volestrangler Sep 2014 #106
Division on the civil society side allows right winger austerity to win. From your link: freshwest Sep 2014 #107
Of course he's allowed Blue_In_AK Sep 2014 #97
advocacy journalist--that's what Glennzilla has always claimed to be librechik Sep 2014 #103

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
6. "Advocacy journalism" is just some bullshit marketing term Greenwald invented
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 10:33 AM
Sep 2014

to pave the way for stunts like last night...

marmar

(77,081 posts)
12. ...............
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 10:39 AM
Sep 2014

Advocacy journalism is a genre of journalism that intentionally and transparently adopts a non-objective viewpoint, usually for some social or political purpose. Because it is intended to be factual, it is distinguished from propaganda. It is also distinct from instances of media bias and failures of objectivity in media outlets, since the bias is intended.

Traditionally, advocacy and criticism are restricted to editorial and op-ed pages, which are clearly distinguished in the publication and in the organization's internal structure. News reports are intended to be objective and unbiased. In contrast, advocacy journalists have an opinion about the story they are writing. For example, that political corruption should be punished, that more environmentally friendly practices should be adopted by consumers, or that a government policy will be harmful to business interests and should not be adopted. This may be evident in small ways, such as tone or facial expression, or large ways, such as the selection of facts and opinions presented.

Some advocacy journalists reject that the traditional ideal of objectivity is possible in practice, either generally, or due to the presence of corporate sponsors in advertising. Some feel that the public interest is better served by a diversity of media outlets with a variety of transparent points of view, or that advocacy journalism serves a similar role to muckrakers or whistleblowers.

....(snip)....

The Crisis, the official magazine of the NAACP, was founded in 1910. It describes itself as inheriting the tradition of advocacy journalism from Freedom's Journal, [3], which began in 1827 as "the first African-American owned and operated newspaper published in the United States."[4]

Muckrakers are often claimed as the professional ancestors of modern advocacy journalists; for example: Nellie Bly, Ida M. Tarbell, Lincoln Steffens, Upton Sinclair, George Seldes, and I.F. Stone.

French newspapers Libération, Charlie Hebdo, Le Canard Enchaîné and L'Humanité all recuse what they consider pseudo-objective journalism for a purposeful explicitly political stance on events. They oppose Le Monde neutral style, which doesn't impede it, according to those critics, from dissimulating various events or from abstaining to speak about certain subjects. On the other side, a newspaper like Le Figaro clearly assumes its conservative stance and pool of readers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advocacy_journalism


treestar

(82,383 posts)
84. It's distinguishable from propaganda, why?
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 08:02 AM
Sep 2014

What's the point of "advocacy journalism?" No one needs a journalist to tell them what to think. Give people the facts and let them make up their own minds. Why does this control freak want to tell them how to think?

WorseBeforeBetter

(11,441 posts)
94. Ida Tarbell helped bring down John D. Rockefeller, Sr. and Standard Oil.
Sun Sep 21, 2014, 04:52 PM
Sep 2014

THAT, to you, is propaganda?



Upton Sinclair also comes to mind. Propaganda, indeed.

WorseBeforeBetter

(11,441 posts)
100. To what are you specifically referring?
Mon Sep 22, 2014, 01:23 PM
Sep 2014

NSA over-reach? It is indeed about Greenwald. And you. And me. And anyone who is wired.

The public will either reject it, or accept it (like with Tarbell and Sinclair). And considering the right-wing's control of *traditional* media, one would think a DUer would applaud intrusive right-wing policy being exposed.

 

Caretha

(2,737 posts)
78. You forget
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 08:43 PM
Sep 2014

many newspapers during all elections throw their support to candidates. They proclaim it and write editorials on why they believe the candidate they support would be best.

I'm having a hard time understanding your faux "outrage" on a common occurrence. Also, your emphasizing your disapproval by putting your whole post in bold, is very disagreeable to read, and makes me prejudiced against you.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
24. Then 234 other journalists and hard newspeople are also biased...
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 11:16 AM
Sep 2014
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/09/media-professionals-and-journalists-donate/

Of course the vast majority give to Democrats, even as we bemoan how far right the news media is....

So what was that about "objectivity?"

Methinks this is really another lame attempt by those still mad at Greenwald for exposing the NSA bullshit.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
31. I dont understand, did Greenwald openly campaign for someone?
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 11:36 AM
Sep 2014

To openly shout "Vote for this person because I am"

vs

donating money to a candidate and not opening your mouth about it, ever...


Are different?

Surely?

But I dont know what Greenwald did or for who, I googled and didnt see it

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
33. You know, that's a good question. I just ASSumed, the OP was factual
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 11:44 AM
Sep 2014

I just hunted around a bit too and can't find anything....

Weird. The OP just made this up?

randys1

(16,286 posts)
39. He can do what he wants, but to compare him to rank and file journalists would make zero
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 12:18 PM
Sep 2014

sense.

Rank and file are not actively doing the shit he is doing, right or wrong.

Reporting is one thing, advocating for a position is another.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
46. No, my only reason to respond was to point out how ridiculous it would be to compare
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 12:48 PM
Sep 2014

rank and file journalists making a donation to the outspoken, LOUD and opinionated Greenwald

If you had not made that comment I would not be responding at all, but when I see stuff like that I have to respond.

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
44. If you think it's Rand Paul, you've bought into the anti-Greenwald propaganda... it's this
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 12:44 PM
Sep 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025538835

Greenwald, Dotcom, Snowden and Assange take on 'adolescent' (NZ Prime Minister) John Key

treestar

(82,383 posts)
85. No. I don't see why any journalist needs to interpret things for us
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 08:04 AM
Sep 2014

Why the attempt to influence people's opinion by the same people giving the facts?

It immediately leads me to think they are likely leaving out inconvenient facts.

I don't need Glenn to tell me what to think of the surveillance issues. Why is he so hot to tell me? And he exaggerates, so there goes his credibility about whether he's reporting on anything that might question his position.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
77. Went out the window when the Fairness Doctrine did.
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 08:15 PM
Sep 2014

So we got David Gregory unabashedly dancing with Karl Rove. I'm sure everyone could pick their favorite example of a journalist lacking political objectivity. If Greenwald is doing it too...'Meh' .

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
28. Apparently not the OP's preferred candidate in some race.
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 11:23 AM
Sep 2014

But yes, I'm somewhat curious as to whom specifically.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
70. Is your moniker Dutch for "Delicious" or something like that?
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 05:01 PM
Sep 2014

Everytime I see it, I've been wondering.. like: "mmm, yummy" ???

m-lekktor

(3,675 posts)
73. haha. nope. there is a "dark electro"/ industrial band named
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 07:53 PM
Sep 2014

c-lekktor I listen to on occasion so when I was trying to think up a screen name when i joined i chose a variation of that because i was listening to them at the time and i couldn't think of anything else! i used the letter m for no reason instead of the letter c ! also, the band is from Mexico and i am uncertain why they chose the name!

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
92. Hee, hee. "lekker" means delicious, yummy, tasty etc.
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 03:25 PM
Sep 2014

thanks for solving the mystery of your moniker cuz then it forced me to get the correct spelling from google translate. My young granddaughters are fluent in both Dutch, and English, and some Spanish.

They always say "mmm Lekker!" to treats and such. I'm familiar with a few words, but the spelling? forget about it!

treestar

(82,383 posts)
88. It seems quite logical for the BOG not to like Glenn
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 01:37 PM
Sep 2014

Persons who support and approve of a POTUS aren't going to agree with people who don't like him much. What's odd about that? No BOGGER has ever said he should be arrested. That's silly.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
13. Shocking isn't it? Sometimes they even vote too!!,11!!
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 10:44 AM
Sep 2014

How dare they??

Some even donate to campaigns (gasp!)

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
15. Link? Context? Old socks?
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 10:47 AM
Sep 2014

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
17. and so what if he is? are you really mad about that or are you just using that as an excuse
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 10:48 AM
Sep 2014

to continue to be mad about his exposing the level of NSA spying on american people while a democrat is in office?

still_one

(92,216 posts)
19. I think the argument is most journalists do not openly advocate a particular candidate to portray
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 10:51 AM
Sep 2014

objectivity

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
21. Many actually do openly campaign including giving a lot of cash
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 11:11 AM
Sep 2014

(Since most of us believe its more important to watch where the money is)

Hayes is one of 235 people who identified themselves on government documents as journalists, or as working for news organizations, who together have donated more than $469,900 to federal political candidates, committees and parties during the 2010 election cycle, a Center for Responsive Politics analysis indicates.

People identifying themselves as working for hard news outlets such as the Washington Post, the New York Times, the New York Post, News Corp., Vanity Fair and Reuters are among the listed donors. Also listed are employees from outlets offering lighter fare — ESPN, Vogue – or community news. Some have donated thousands of dollars.

The average contribution per person identified is eight times Hayes’ amount, and because of some big-spending media professionals, that number is slightly skewed upwards — with the median amount donated coming in at $500. Sixty-five percent of all identified donations went to Democrats, the Center’s research indicates.

To download an itemized spreadsheet of self-identified journalists and other people working for news organizations, click here: Media Donations 091410.xls


http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/09/media-professionals-and-journalists-donate/

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
71. Important information, thank you..
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 05:48 PM
Sep 2014

Thanks for your time and the labor you spent on contributing this information... maybe it should have it's own thread, maybe it might get broader attention. one brain at a time...

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
22. i still dont believe that this is why we are mad at him. we are mad at him for exposing Obama
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 11:14 AM
Sep 2014

as one who does not necessarily believe in transparency in government.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
89. Why would anyone be mad about Glenn "exposing" whatever?
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 01:38 PM
Sep 2014

He editorializes and we merely disagreed with him.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
90. because a lot of democrats are. prior to his exposing this info, i didnt see any thread about
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 01:47 PM
Sep 2014

greenwald.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
38. for your convenience, here's the text of that OP
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 12:18 PM
Sep 2014
Trying to tip the polls a week before the election??

http://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefano/leakers-vs-key#1asjq5k

And exactly HOW much money did Kim Dotcom shell out to bring this circus to town? Once upon a time wasn't the purpose of this entire stunt supposed to only expose illegal domestic surveillance in the United States??

If GG is planning some "big reveal" during the town hall, you all do realize he has crossed into some really distasteful territory, right?? And since when is Snowden writing op-eds for The Intercept??

Yeah, yeah, I know, I know...I'm just a hater with a vendetta against Glenn Greenwald...We've been through this a thousand times before, so let's just skip it this time; because these are serious questions...


To be honest, I'm glad to see GG take such an interest in foreign affairs...Now he has no excuses whatsoever when I question his indifference about what's been going on in Brazil, Russia a

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
65. You really need to quit when you are behind
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 04:54 PM
Sep 2014

The utter in ability to ever admit you might be just the teensiest bit wrong is amusing

1) The OP has NOTHING to do with Rand Paul or even the United States
2) Slamming Greenwald for appearing on Fox? Hilarious

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
67. Those keen journalist skills of yours are amazing
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 04:57 PM
Sep 2014

Frothing at the mere mention of Greenwald's name, not realizing this isn't even about the US or the Paul's, slamming Greenwald for being on Fox. You're awesome

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
68. You keep swatting at me like a blindfolded 2 year old at a pinata 10 feet in the air.
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 04:59 PM
Sep 2014

Its not working.

LeftishBrit

(41,208 posts)
54. I suppose anyone is allowed to campaign for political candidates!
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 01:14 PM
Sep 2014

With a few exceptions - those that come to mind are representatives of charitable organizations, and members of Britain's Royal Family! So far as I know, Greenwald is neither of those things - so why would he not be allowed to? It may be that he's campaigning for someone awful (who is it?); but that's a separate issue.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
57. spaghetti against the wall!
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 02:48 PM
Sep 2014

And if the OP doesn't get enough traction in GD, other OPs are started elsewhere!

Luminous Animal

(27,310 posts)
72. Kim Dotcom is not a candidate. He can't be one because he is not a NZ citizen.
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 07:41 PM
Sep 2014

But, Greenwald did endorse Democratic candidate Rush Holt for Senate.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
75. I know. Just imagine if Dan Rather had spoke at a political fundraiser in Texas in 2001,
Mon Sep 15, 2014, 08:05 PM
Sep 2014

the furor it would have created.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
91. Does it really annoy you that much that he spoke against the centre-right NZ PM?
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 03:52 PM
Sep 2014
Dotcom has been drawing large, enthusiastic crowds on the campaign trail, even as he fights extradition attempts by the U.S. on racketeering charges over his now-shuttered file-sharing site Megaupload. He can't run for office because he's not a New Zealand citizen, but he has poured more than 3 million New Zealand dollars ($2.44 million) into a small party that is on target to win two or three of the 120 seats in the Parliament when the nation goes to the polls Saturday.

The Internet Mana party is attracting younger voters by promising to deliver free higher education, cut the price of Internet access, fight mass surveillance, decriminalize marijuana and protect native dolphins. But Dotcom may fall short of one of his main goals: getting center-right Prime Minister John Key voted out of office.

Polls indicate that Key remains popular and is likely to win a third three-year term, though that would be in jeopardy if opposition parties such as Dotcom's gain more than half the parliamentary seats and form a coalition.
...
Dotcom founded the Internet Party, which in May joined forces with the Mana Movement, a party rooted in giving indigenous Maori a political voice and fighting for the rights of the poor.

http://www.toptechnews.com/article/index.php?story_id=1000034M5CMC

This is what you find so repulsive? That Greenwald openly prefers that party over the centre-right government involved in NSA surveillance?
 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
102. Yes! We should all support John Key! Now! Fuck the new Zealanders and their pathetic
Mon Sep 22, 2014, 01:28 PM
Sep 2014

expectations of privacy!

 

Electric Monk

(13,869 posts)
99. And this makes you happy?
Sun Sep 21, 2014, 05:12 PM
Sep 2014
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140915/06175828518/snowden-greenwald-reveal-pm-john-key-lied-about-kiwi-mass-surveillance-key-hits-back-calling-greenwald-loser.shtml

Greenwald delivered on his half of the bargain with a detailed look at how the NSA was relying on New Zealand to change its laws to further legalize GCSB domestic surveillance. Greenwald got a further assist from Ed Snowden himself who wrote about how he regularly had access to New Zealanders' metadata, collected by the GCSB.

(snip)

Greenwald's piece further details how the NSA was pushing New Zealand to pass a new law last year to finalize the full legalization of this kind of surveillance, noting that the legal change was considered the final blockade on such a program. As we noted last year, while most of the world was passing laws to cut back on domestic surveillance, New Zealand was actually passing a law to expand those powers. While that bill was being debated, New Zealand Prime Minister John Key insisted that it was not enabling broad new domestic surveillance options, even though it was pretty clear from the text of the law.

more...
 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
101. The important thing here, of course, is not the New Zealanders, silly, it is that Greenwald is
Mon Sep 22, 2014, 01:27 PM
Sep 2014

perceived to have failed. Don't you understand ad hominem politics?

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
107. Division on the civil society side allows right winger austerity to win. From your link:
Sat Sep 27, 2014, 02:20 PM
Sep 2014
Meanwhile, Dotcom’s Internet Party bombed, even costing its tiny ally the only seat it held in Parliament.

I look at the end results, not the shiny libertarian promises used on liberals and progressives who may not realize they're no longer either. They consider themselves to have evolved, swayed by the anti-government message so much, they forgot that government is in need of their assistance to protect social equality.

Which the libertarians do not, as they are consumed with the rights of those who have historically been elevated above those who are struggling for survival.

Whiteness, NSA Spying and the Irony of Racial Privilege

http://www.timwise.org/2013/06/whiteness-nsa-spying-and-the-irony-of-racial-privilege/

Libertarians brush women's rights to the side as well:

Years ago, after listening to AJ rant on TSA groping, I tuned in, hoping to hear a rant as the GOP passed the law on trans-vaginal ultrasounds in TX. I had a faint hope the 'freedom and liberty' Libertarian crowd might stand up and protest this being mandated by the fascist government in TX:



Hey, don't like being groped at the airport? Try some real groping.

Mandated for daring to ask for a legal procedure. You will be billed for it as well, despite your not wanting it to be done. There you go, little ladies, we know what's best for you.

'Just close your eyes and think of... Liberty? Freedom? Privacy rights?'


No fourth amendment for you, sweetie.

The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, along with requiring any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the writ of assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, in the American Revolution. Search and seizure (including arrest) should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer, who has sworn by it. The Fourth Amendment applies to the states by way of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

Paul Ryan has promised that the GOP will repeal the Fourteenth Amendment along with its clause for Equal Protection under the law and Birthright Citizenship, when they get enough red states to do it through state conventions. I call it a 'clear and present danger' to life and liberty, because it's apparent in the 'hands on' fascism being enacted state by state by the GOP, that females need that old Fourteenth.

But instead on the day I tuned in, he was cheering the Ron Paul GOP/Teas/Libertarians calling into his show who'd worked to pass the ultrasound bill and abortion restrictions in Oklahoma, urging them to get it passed in every state, just as ALEC and the fundies want. Fortunately, It was later ruled unConstitutional in OK.

And there's not a peep from him on this, perhaps he doesn't believe women have a right to protest what's being done to them, their rights to be 'secure in their own bodies,' doesn't matter?

And police grabbing a peaceful woman exercising her Constitutional right to be there, not interfering except for having a rebellious mind in public since 'you don't need no thought control' when hands will do the job, legally 'petitioning government to listen to their grievances' isn't going to be called 'oppression'?

Animal Farm. All animals are created equal. But some animals are more equal than others. All your uteri are belong to us.

http://metamorphosis.democraticunderground.com/1014519458#post12

The end result will be a Koch Kingdom in place, and I guess that's not an offense to some. But it it to me, as I've seen their plans for me and my life. And they will silence Warren if the GOP control the Senate, but some aren't looking to the end result:

“We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”

“We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”


They have gotten just about every thing on their list, playing to all sides who don't understand the world the Koch brothers are forcing on us piecemeal. They are positioned to finish the task. Not voting for Warren's party is a vote to let them have it all:

BERNIE SANDERS Uncovers 1980 Koch Agenda- "What Do the Koch Brothers Want?"

What else do the Koch brothers want?


In 1980, David Koch ran as the Libertarian Party’s vice-presidential candidate in 1980.

Let’s take a look at the 1980 Libertarian Party platform.

Here are just a few excerpts of the Libertarian Party platform that David Koch ran on in 1980:

“We urge the repeal of federal campaign finance laws, and the immediate abolition of the despotic Federal Election Commission.”

“We favor the abolition of Medicare and Medicaid programs.”

“We oppose any compulsory insurance or tax-supported plan to provide health services, including those which finance abortion services.”

“We also favor the deregulation of the medical insurance industry.”

“We favor the repeal of the fraudulent, virtually bankrupt, and increasingly oppressive Social Security system. Pending that repeal, participation in Social Security should be made voluntary.”

“We propose the abolition of the governmental Postal Service. The present system, in addition to being inefficient, encourages governmental surveillance of private correspondence. Pending abolition, we call for an end to the monopoly system and for allowing free competition in all aspects of postal service.”

“We oppose all personal and corporate income taxation, including capital gains taxes.”

“We support the eventual repeal of all taxation.”

“As an interim measure, all criminal and civil sanctions against tax evasion should be terminated immediately.”

“We support repeal of all law which impede the ability of any person to find employment, such as minimum wage laws.”

“We advocate the complete separation of education and State. Government schools lead to the indoctrination of children and interfere with the free choice of individuals. Government ownership, operation, regulation, and subsidy of schools and colleges should be ended.”

“We condemn compulsory education laws … and we call for the immediate repeal of such laws.”

“We support the repeal of all taxes on the income or property of private schools, whether profit or non-profit.”

“We support the abolition of the Environmental Protection Agency.”

“We support abolition of the Department of Energy.”

“We call for the dissolution of all government agencies concerned with transportation, including the Department of Transportation.”

“We demand the return of America's railroad system to private ownership. We call for the privatization of the public roads and national highway system.”

“We specifically oppose laws requiring an individual to buy or use so-called "self-protection" equipment such as safety belts, air bags, or crash helmets.”

“We advocate the abolition of the Federal Aviation Administration.”

“We advocate the abolition of the Food and Drug Administration.”

“We support an end to all subsidies for child-bearing built into our present laws, including all welfare plans and the provision of tax-supported services for children.”

“We oppose all government welfare, relief projects, and ‘aid to the poor’ programs. All these government programs are privacy-invading, paternalistic, demeaning, and inefficient. The proper source of help for such persons is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals.”

“We call for the privatization of the inland waterways, and of the distribution system that brings water to industry, agriculture and households.”

“We call for the repeal of the Occupational Safety and Health Act.”

“We call for the abolition of the Consumer Product Safety Commission.”

“We support the repeal of all state usury laws.”

In other words, the agenda of the Koch brothers is not only to defund Obamacare. The agenda of the Koch brothers is to repeal every major piece of legislation that has been signed into law over the past 80 years that has protected the middle class, the elderly, the children, the sick, and the most vulnerable in this country...

Tomorrow it will be Social Security, ending Medicare as we know it, repealing the minimum wage. It seems to me that the Koch brothers will not be content until they get everything they believe they are entitled to.

Our great nation can no longer be hijacked by right-wing billionaires like the Koch brothers.

For the sake of our children and our grandchildren, for the sake of our economy, we have got to let democracy prevail.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024806298

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/koch-brothers

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a7980koch

to kpete:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024806298

We've heard these memes for years, Americans have come to believe this is how it has to be. It's the recipe for neo-feudalism.

Another explanation of this here:

How Freedom Became Tyranny

Rightwing libertarians have turned “freedom” into an excuse for greed and exploitation.

George Monbiot - December 19, 2011

Freedom: who could object? Yet this word is now used to justify a thousand forms of exploitation. Throughout the rightwing press and blogosphere, among thinktanks and governments, the word excuses every assault on the lives of the poor, every form of inequality and intrusion to which the 1% subject us. How did libertarianism, once a noble impulse, become synonymous with injustice?

In the name of freedom – freedom from regulation – the banks were permitted to wreck the economy. In the name of freedom, taxes for the super-rich are cut. In the name of freedom, companies lobby to drop the minimum wage and raise working hours. In the same cause, US insurers lobby Congress to thwart effective public healthcare; the government rips up our planning laws; big business trashes the biosphere. This is the freedom of the powerful to exploit the weak, the rich to exploit the poor.

Right-wing libertarianism recognises few legitimate constraints on the power to act, regardless of the impact on the lives of others. In the UK it is forcefully promoted by groups like the TaxPayers’ Alliance, the Adam Smith Institute, the Institute of Economic Affairs and Policy Exchange. Their conception of freedom looks to me like nothing but a justification for greed.

So why have we been been so slow to challenge this concept of liberty? I believe that one of the reasons is as follows. The great political conflict of our age – between neocons and the millionaires and corporations they support on one side and social justice campaigners and environmentalists on the other – has been mischaracterised as a clash between negative and positive freedoms.


More at the link about the meaning of positive and negative freedoms and how the word is being used against us:

http://www.monbiot.com/2011/12/19/how-freedom-became-tyranny/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025591549#post1

So the Libertarian brand is the kiss of death for any of those who will affected. For others, it's 'Meh.'

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
97. Of course he's allowed
Sun Sep 21, 2014, 04:56 PM
Sep 2014

I don't think he's ever claimed not to have opinions, and it's not like he's on NBC Nightly News or anything.

librechik

(30,674 posts)
103. advocacy journalist--that's what Glennzilla has always claimed to be
Mon Sep 22, 2014, 01:35 PM
Sep 2014

It's not like he's Chuck todd, pretending to be absolutely unbiased. He tells everyone up front where he's coming from.

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