In our society, it is more acceptable to hit a child than to hit a partner

[cali]

even if you cause bleeding, bruising and welts- as long as you are a parent, grandparent or guardian of said child. That's what we learned this week, and that's just the way it is.

Time to change that.

[Iggo]

1. Absolutely.

Sickening, but true.

[Adam051188]

2. we have a society?

i operate under the parameters of the u.s.a. being a loose coalition of individualists each understood to be exclusively interested in his or her own personal acquisition of mutually recognized status symbols so that the individual may attain the great american goal of feeling superior to the individual's recognized peers of similar economic standing.

[treestar]

3. Discipline being allowed, you mean

Though it can't go too far. Here's my state's statute (which is probably model code)

§ 468 Justification — Use of force by persons with special responsibility for care, discipline or safety of others.

The use of force upon or toward the person of another is justifiable if it is reasonable and moderate and:

(1) The defendant is the parent, guardian, foster parent, legal custodian or other person similarly responsible for the general care and supervision of a child, or a person acting at the request of a parent, guardian, foster parent, legal custodian or other responsible person, and:

a. The force is used for the purpose of safeguarding or promoting the welfare of the child, including the prevention or punishment of misconduct; and

b. The force used is intended to benefit the child, or for the special purposes listed in paragraphs (2)a., (3)a., (4)a., (5), (6) and (7) of this section. The size, age, condition of the child, location of the force and the strength and duration of the force shall be factors considered in determining whether the force used is reasonable and moderate; but

c. The force shall not be justified if it includes, but is not limited to, any of the following: Throwing the child, kicking, burning, cutting, striking with a closed fist, interfering with breathing, use of or threatened use of a deadly weapon, prolonged deprivation of sustenance or medication, or doing any other act that is likely to cause or does cause physical injury, disfigurement, mental distress, unnecessary degradation or substantial risk of serious physical injury or death; or

(2) The defendant is a teacher or a person otherwise entrusted with the care or supervision of a child for a special purpose, and:

a. The defendant believes the force used is necessary to further the special purpose, including the maintenance of reasonable discipline in a school, class or other group, and that the use of force is consistent with the welfare of the child; and

b. The degree of force, if it had been used by the parent, guardian, foster parent or legal custodian of the child, would be justifiable under paragraph (1)a. and b. of this section and not enumerated under paragraph (1)c. of this section; or


You have a point - this would not be an available defense for someone who hit their adult partner.

[pnwmom]

22. That law effectively prohibits physical discipline, because it prohibits

"any other act that is limey to cause . . . mental distress."

Any act of corporal punishment causes mental distress. That is at least half the point -- to instill fear and powerlessness.

[Kalidurga]

4. Neither is acceptable

in fact having been abused and having witnessed abuse I will say in my experience it is worse witnessing abuse. I had nightmares from watching my mom get beat up by my dad. I might have been bruised from a vigorous whooping and I know that has caused permanent issues, but I am fairly certain it's watching my mom get beaten that has caused the greater issues and the worst nightmares.

If anyone in any household is abused in this way we need to separate the perp from the entire family. I don't advocate counseling in most cases, if in the rare case the perp can be reformed maybe. But, it's a very unlikely thing. We don't make people live with other people that victimize them why do we do this with children and adults that have been abused?

[cali]

9. I disagree.

Having been abused and having witnessed abuse, I'd never say one is worse than the other.

[Kalidurga]

13. I think you are most likely right

but, I remember the terror a lot more vividly from what I saw done to other people. Then that can go back to minimizing being a victim, but totally empathizing with other victims.

[pnwmom]

23. But maybe what really happened

is that you were so overwhelmed by your personal experience that your mind succeeded in suppressing most of the memory, but will allow you to remember it happening to other people.

[Wait Wut]

5. I'm glad everyone else is catching on.

I've been saying this for decades. Now, if everyone could focus on the kids that don't have famous parents, we're on the way to healing some very broken babies. But, just like everything else, it will be forgotten in a week or two.

Remember, most abused/neglected children don't talk about it. It is getting better. Teachers, doctors, etc. are required to report suspected abuse. But, a lot of abusive parents are experts at hiding the truth and teaching their children to lie. We need to start at the very top, with all parents.

"My parents did it" is not an excuse. There is no excuse.

[randys1]

6. George Carlin had a great routine called "Child Worship"

Jerry Seinfeld is actually doing a routine on this now too, likely from his own real life experiences.

Seems maybe we go one way or the other often in this country, extremes.

Either we cant imagine ever touching a child for any reason as to discipline (the position I have taken as I have grown older) or there is the "hands on" approach, excuse the pun.

Hitting a kid is too easy, solves nothing usually, disciplining without physical interaction is the hard road and likely the most effective ultimately.

[demmiblue]

7. I have been sickened by some of the responses that I have heard and read regarding this issue.

And, yes, we need to change that. It is not going to be easy... I didn't realize how entrenched this acceptance of abuse really was.

My heart aches for those children who suffer abuse from the people who are supposed to love them the most.

[NYC_SKP]

8. And it's even more acceptable to kill a stranger in another country and different culture.

Hell, we hire kids to do that.

[cali]

10. different issues. n/t

[TBF]

11. I think it is all connected -

it is in the interest of the folks ruling this oligarchy to keep people obedient. Then they will follow orders like the constant killing of people in other countries ... this starts with physical abuse sanctioned by folks in power (politicians, church leaders etc). We need a very complacent, obedient (and I'd argue marginally intelligent) mass of folks in order to carry on the goals of this MIC. That I think is what we are seeing.

[HereSince1628]

12. Yes, time to change THAT. What part of an adult beating a FOUR YEAR OLD until he bleeds

in his genitals NEEDS more explanation????????????????????????????????????????????????

[MerryBlooms]

14. What's surprised me here on DU,

is how many people we have here, proud they are violent with children.
It's goddamn shameful.
Bragging about hitting your children is fucking sick. Hitting a little person whose bones aren't even completely developed or solid, who has ZERO control of their environment... DISGUSTING BEYOND BELIEF

[Maedhros]

15. It's a cultural behavior handed down from parent to child.

My mother had many stories of how her father had a set of horse reins hanging on a post that he would use to whip the children. She grew up in Depression-Era Kansas, and in the 70's in Central Oregon she had a leather belt hanging by the door that she would use to whip us.

I haven't carried on the tradition.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

16. No, I see people actually debating the issue both ways

It's sickening. Both are wrong. Period.

[etherealtruth]

17. UN Convention on the Rights of a Child

https://treaties.un.org/Pages/ViewDetails.aspx?mtdsg_no=IV-11&chapter=4&lang=en

Interesting that only two countries have not ratified .... us and Somolia

[Autumn]

18. I was spanked as a child, my children range from 43 to 26

they have never been spanked or even so much as having thier hands smacked. I wouldn't even ground them because I realized the first time I did that it was harder on me than it was on them. Children respond to reason and logic.

[moriah]

25. Eh, grounding me from privileges did teach me lessons. Never ran up Mom's phone bill again.

I missed my BBS, man. It was my only social life as a homeschooled teen. When she took away my modem for two weeks, I was one miserable kid. FAR more miserable than after the one time she spanked me that I've discussed here before.

But most of the time, I didn't disobey, and she didn't place unfair restrictions. Considering she was able to homeschool me while being a single parent, and I always had my work done when she came home... along with a meal on the table and laundry done.... We'd go over my lessons and my correspondence classes, do any tests that the correspondence classes required, etc, in the evenings.

At that time, I actually had no curfew. After lessons were done, I could go out with my friends as late as I wanted. Even though she didn't require it, I knew it made her feel better, so I still always called her before 10 if I wasn't home by then to let her know where I was and when I would be home. (There was a live-action RPG that I played with some friends on Friday nights that sometimes ran until 2 or 3 AM, and since I talked to all of them through the computer, it meant I was pretty much cut off from all contact when she grounded me from the modem.)

All that was required is that I did my work and chores on time, and didn't do stupid shit like run up the phone bill.

[stupidicus]

19. my parents taught me many valuable lessons

on what not to do as they did, and that was one of them.

[deafskeptic]

20. Yes, and that ticks me off. And yes, that needs to be changed big time. n/t

[cali]

21. kick. True on DU as well.

[cwydro]

24. Kick. nt