Holy Shit! Jan Brewer actually signed it. Life now begins 2 weeks before conception in Arizona.

[11 Bravo]

That's right, boys and girls. In Arizona Mr. Sperm doesn't even have to encounter Ms. Egg in order for Arizona Repugs to insert themselves into a woman's reproductive process. According to the law that Brewer signed, gestational age now is deemed to have begun on the first day of the last menstrual period of a pregnant woman. Abso-fucking-lutely IMPOSSIBLE, you say? Nope. In Arizona if you become pregnant, then by law it happened two weeks before you actually had intercourse.
You can't make this shit up.

[teddy51]

1. Can you say "Drop Dead Crazy"? I think these Repugs have been out in the sun to long. n/t

[Initech]

30. "Off the deep end" doesn't even begin to describe their insane behavior.

I don't even think bat shit fucking crazy does either - this is a whole new level of insanity. I've come to define republicanism lately as.a "glorious lack of empathy" and it's been showing.

[K Gardner]

79. "Legislating Vaginal Outcomes", as Michael Steele said. n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

2. Is this from the Onion?

WTF is wrong with that state?

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Nope, the Onion is becoming less and less out there

which is telling.

[Curmudgeoness]

11. Sadly, the Onion can't make this shit up.

Things are getting so insane that they can't come up with farces that are as outrageous as real life.

I wish it was a joke.

[pokerfan]

20. Poe's Law

"Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of fundamentalism that someone won't mistake for the real thing."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. And for all of us who were non believers...

I will stop now.

[bananas]

9. Next will be arrests for child endangerment - for people who aren't pregnant yet.

Because even though they aren't pregnant, legally, they are.

[spanone]

5. masturbation will soon be a criminal offense

[aquart]

6. Wasn't this on the Daily Show last night?

[bananas]

7. It was. nt

[Electric Monk]

59. Yes. Link here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002555811

[Mister Ed]

8. Okay, help me figure out the legal ramifications here...

so, umm...if life legally begins with the twinkle in Dad's eye, then, umm...what if he wears sunglasses? Could he be charged with infanticide?

Just wondering.

[nolabear]

10. What's really possible is that Mom could be charged with all kinds of things.

Drugs in her system? Risky behavior (like skiing, sky diving, getting a ticket for speeding)? It's getting just TOO damned Margaret Atwood around here for me.

[Curmudgeoness]

14. I assume what they are getting at is...

if anyone wants an abortion, the fetus will be deemed older than it is---meaning that the first trimester would end earlier than it should.

And yes, one day soon we will be living The Handmaiden's Tale. And I thought that book was really out there.

[robinlynne]

16. that makes sense. methinks you are correct.

[Curmudgeoness]

19. I just did some research....

the bill limits abortions to only up to 20 weeks after conception. So when you add that additional couple of weeks, they are cutting the time even more.

http://www.wildcat.arizona.edu/index.php/article/2012/04/legislature_bans_abortions_20_weeks_after_conception

Or, since there are a few bills on this same topic, this could be a separate one....but they all go hand in hand.

[joshcryer]

43. Here's the lesgislation (and Guttmacher on all states as of April 1st):

Guttmacher: http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_OAL.pdf

The new legislation: http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/50leg/2r/summary/h.hb2036_concurrefusememo.doc.htm

Looks like Guttmacher needs an update.

Fortunately "life of the woman" remains intact, which doctors may use their discretion.

[MattBaggins]

96. But their own law doesn't do what they think it does then

They need to check their own word choices.

Conception still does not equal ovulation even if they claim that is when life starts.

[Curmudgeoness]

114. No kidding! And it gets worse.

Their definition of when conception occurs is the first day of the last menstral cycle. This means that they are saying conception happens BEFORE ovulation even occurs. Incredible.

[GeorgeGist]

69. Sense ...

is in the eye of the beholder. Methinks the govt of Arizona is nonsense.

[robinlynne]

95. worse than nonsense.

[11 Bravo]

17. You are exactly right. The entire rationale for the law was to shorten the length ...

of the first trimester; thus making any medical diagnosis indicating the need for a therapeutic abortion more difficult to arrive at, while at the same time making access to a legal abortion more difficult to obtain.

[Mimosa]

35. Same here.

I used to think The Handmaiden's Tale was over the top. No longer.

[DirkGently]

61. We've gone Under the Rainbow.

[Marrah_G]

53. This is freaking me out

[Waros]

127. Wow!

Don't worry. People who are "freaking out" are never asked for their opinions.

[lapislzi]

91. While I don't believe that was the intent of the legislation,

There is every possibility, likelihood, even, that it will be abused in this manner.

Really, all they wanted to do was to shave another 2 weeks off the 20-week abortion ban. The law makes you 20 weeks when you're really only 18 or even less.

Medically unsound, sheer idiocy.

[malaise]

12. That woman is batshit crazy

She should be institutionalized

[Waros]

125. What?

Tell everyone that cares or voted for you, what you think. Talk is easy!

[Waros]

126. Smart!

Thats an intelligent comment w/o any backing or follow up. What's you're history, education, backround?

[malaise]

130. Enjoy your stay

and remember to let me know your favorite flowers.

[LisaL]

13. Now every woman can be just a little bit pregnant in AZ.

[freshwest]

45. I'll move my post-menopausal self there and ask for benefits. Immaculate conception, here I come!

[Waros]

128. Little bit?

You define it. Know it all, genius!!!

[damyank913]

15. I wonder when rational thought begins?

Maybe never?

[muntrv]

18. So, spanking the monkey will be considered murder?

[-..__...]

55. New campaign...

send her cum encrusted paper towels and dare her to extradite the person on murder chargers.

On second thought... don't use jism (The Feds/USPS frowns upon sending hazardous/infectious materials through the mail... especially to politicians).

Use dried yogurt instead.

[lastlib]

105. ...and it can be identified thru DNA...

[Beartracks]

107. No, no, no, of course not!

SPERM can be replaced!

Go ahead and waste 'em, boys; we'll make more!

================

[Odin2005]

21. The heat down there must fry people's brain cells.

[Scurrilous]

22. ...

[Waros]

129. Ego!

You of course know the answers up north.

[frankroberts]

23. every sperm is sacred

[longship]

72. Damn! Too slow. That was gonna be my post

BTW, every sperm is sacred.

[Glimmer of Hope]

24. How can this be!

Does not compute.

[eyeofnewt]

25. what?

Where are Republican women? Why can't they stand up just once? This isn't even about agreeing or disagreeing with abortion, it's plain crazy and stupid! I'd be ashamed to proclaim this as fair, decent or rational.....or try to cloak it in religion.

[atreides1]

71. It was a Republican woman who introduced this bill

It was the bat shit crazy voters who put these people in office...all based on their fear of that black man in the White House...the people of Arizona are now under religious laws disguised as keeping women safe...

[joshcryer]

26. Amazing. Truly amazing.

Kinda debating my move to AZ.

[anti-alec]

31. Don't...

Until the BS crazy goes away, you'd be stuck in red hell.

[joshcryer]

32. I'll be living in a really rural area without anyone around though...

...I dunno.

[lunasun]

44. sounds even scarier to me

[Cleita]

27. Why can't Arizonans get rid of that wacky, old woman?

Really, don't they have some kind of recall laws?

[joshcryer]

33. I can't believe Obama or the Dems think they can flip that batshit state!

[emulatorloo]

48. They could with GOTV. Not every person who lives there is nuts.

[Safetykitten]

98. They can't. It's insane to think they can.

[Confusious]

60. You assume people want to get rid of her

Arizona is run by Phoenix. What they say goes for pretty much the state. If their wacky asses want her, they get her.

[Cleita]

64. You'd think fifty percent of them would want to,

that is women who will be adversely affected by this.

[Confusious]

102. Even the NAZIs had jews that helped them

So no matter how bad it gets, there will always be boot lickers.

[bluedigger]

28. Can I legally change my birthday then?

I never liked my Zodiac sign.

[RevStPatrick]

36. Does that mean I'm a Libra now...

...instead of a Scorpio?
But I don't WANNA be a Libra!!!
I LIKE being a Scorpio!!!

[mikeytherat]

85. If I was in Arizona, I'd become a Libra.

But I like being a Scorpio.

mikey_the_rat

[elias7]

29. If you're confused about the basis of those 2 weeks, here's why...

A normal pregnancy lasts 280 days from your LNMP (last normal menstrual period) which is about 266 days from conception to birth. The first two weeks of your pregnancy includes the time of your period, ovulation and fertilization. Conception occurs approximately 14 - 16 days after the first day of your last menstrual period.

Since the date of conception is not always known and can vary between women, the date of LNMP is known by most women so doctors use this date as a starting point for pregnancy. From your LNMP they will add 280 days and this will give your Estimated Due Date. In general, all doctors agree that pregnancies, when using the LNMP dating technique, average approximately 280 days or 40 weeks.

[joshcryer]

38. It still has a high margin of error.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/703501_2

Leave it to the Republicans to make law based on antiquated dating methods (which no doubt were useful 200 years ago, but these days? OK).

[Pathwalker]

93. So....does that mean I've been pregnant since June 13, 1993?

The date of my last period?

[Posteritatis]

113. Watch out, I hear the 76th trimester is a doozy. (nt)

[HeiressofBickworth]

112. Repubs using fuzzy math again

When 280 days LNMP is used for calculation, it is a result of additional days being added only for calculation purposes. An actual pregnancy still takes only 266 days.

If that's the case, then the AZ law should be ADDING days, not reducing actual time. So the law allowing abortion should read 22 weeks, not 20, since they want to calculate from LNMP.

[DeeJay]

34. So then who is the father?

[Tikki]

37. Every woman in AZ needs to go to their local Social Security office...

each menstrual cycle and file for Social Security numbers for their potentials and also
take out life insurance policies for each of their possibilities.



Tikki

[jillan]

39. And there is no war on women! Now they want my menstrual charts.

I want to see a law passed that men have to report every time they masturbated and wasted perfectly good sperm.

[cbayer]

115. There was a great piece by Steven Colbert on this. I think it was Wednesday.

[Jello Biafra]

40. The census numbers are skewed now as a result......n/t

[JoePhilly]

41. Cool, now I can retire 9 months earlier than I planned to, right?

[Confusious]

62. Sure, if you die

Don't want no gub'ment teat sucking worthless eaters.

Now has anyone seen my social security check and Medicaid medication?

[LibDemAlways]

42. I wish they would take an interest in the

well being of a baby after birth. Once a newborn takes a breath, they cease to care.

[Mendocino]

121. If you want the GOP to care,

then you better crawl back into the womb.

[derby378]

46. Why this hasn't been shouted from the rooftops as a warning to the nation is beyond me

O Arizona, how far you have fallen.

Ginny and I had so many happy memories of the Grand Canyon. Now I don't know when I can ever go back.

[Gregorian]

47. Does that mean I have to have a prescription in order to masturbate?

It's a shame that brains are so underrated.

[canuckledragger]

49. shouldn't this be grounds to have her removed from office

for psychiatric reasons or such?

I mean..this flies right in the face of proven science..is dementia setting in early or something?

[mysuzuki2]

50. And in related news; tomorrow she will sign a bill establishing the

value of pi as an even 3 to make math easier.

[mbuch64]

51. Bigger picture

This is what the right will use to outlaw the birth control pill. One state at a time
the tea party/taliban is gunning for our rights.
We better stand up and be loud and uncompromising with these people.
This can not be allowed to happen in our country.

[Iris]

116. With the help of ALEC and Corporate America

Fascism, anyone?

[Marrah_G]

52. umm wtf? seriously, wtf?

I feel like I fell down the rabbit hole.....

[-..__...]

54. Ya'know...

sometimes I wonder if they actually believe this shit, or just do it out of spite/create a shit storm/force a Supreme Court case (the Internet porn bill as another recent example).

There's a method to their madness and I'm betting on the latter.

[liberalhistorian]

75. I'm almost afraid to ask this, but what

was the internet porn bill?

[-..__...]

89. My mistake...

it's a bill that would prohibit certain language/speech on the Internet...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/04/arizona-bill-criminalize-online-speech_n_1404038.html

[Justice wanted]

56. You would THINK Jan being a FEMALE that she would fully understand what this law does to her

gender and to her DAUGHTERS and GRANDDAUGHTERS!!!

No the B****** just threw all females under the fuckin train after she tied their hands.


This basically outlaws contraception and could possibly make miscarriages something to be looked into. Didn't know you where pregnant went had beer/drink with friends only to find out a week later you are with child than something happens --oh let's say nature correcting itself and now you are in trouble because your friend puts a picture of you having a drink when you thought you weren't pregnant.


(OR am I wrong?)

[SammyWinstonJack]

92. I actually would worry about that happening.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

110. This just outlawed having a period, essentially, though.

Because periods slough off eggs, sometimes fertilized eggs. This also outlaws miscarriages. I don't even think they understand the SCIENCE behind pregnancy.
Next women are going to go to jail for having the wrong gender.

[Justice wanted]

111. That's what I was just thinking last night.

[benld74]

57. It AIN'T even EFFIN possible! YET rethugs make a law agin it!

[The Wizard]

58. She really has to

give up smoking crack.

[felix_numinous]

63. Enforcing this shit is going to be a nightmare

but these idiots do not think things through. These people are certifiably insane and have to be stopped--young girls are going to die because this ruling.

[Cleita]

65. I'm hoping the women of Arizona will go out of their way to make

sure it will be a nightmare to enforce.

[Egalitarian Thug]

66. I just spent the day with a long time friend from AZ. He has always been

a hard core capitalists, Libertarian type (I always think of Penn Gillette when I think of him) and so we have always enjoyed very spirited debates when we get together.

So anyway, as always the topic of politics arose and I have never seen him so visibly change, I swear he looked like a balloon deflating. He is just at his wits end. He literally has no idea what happened, the whole party has gone insane, "what the hell are they thinking?", the Democrats are going to take back the House and increase their majority in the Senate, and best of all, "Thug, you're right. I can't even try to defend this shit any more".

Now remember, this is a man for whom the system has worked beautifully.
My only concern is that now he may well register as a Democrat (which explains a lot of the stuff I see written here).

[Iliyah]

67. Then I will say

OUTLAW ORAL SEX!

[TheKentuckian]

68. Way past absolutely batshit

but often absurdity impresses certain points where facts and well constructed arguments can find no fertile soil.

It might seem like all hell is breaking loose and maybe it is but the tendency to overplay the hand when all eyes are on the table is strong with them.

This is just the kind of stupid that acts like WD40 on a long stuck gear and once the light comes on, it seldom goes back out. Before it is said and done, I bet quite a few with two brain cells to rub together will come to a very different outlook than they have now, they may never get all the way to where some are but there will be some backing off the plate and even some walking away.

[Doctor_J]

70. AZ also is on the leading edge of the far right guns laws

you are looking at the near future of the whole country unless we start shooting back at some point.

[glinda]

73. k & R n/t

[Kablooie]

74. Doesn't a woman carry all the eggs she will ever have at birth?

Then I move that they should make conception start at the birth of the woman.

[liberalhistorian]

76. Shhhhh! Don't be giving

these bataloons any ideas now!!!! At this point, I wouldn't put ANYTHING past them anymore!

[burrowowl]

78. Very Good!

[Jim Lane]

101. Sort of, but it's a little more complicated.

According to Wikipedia -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oogenesis#Human_Oogenesis -- the process of generating primary oocytes is completed before or shortly after birth. These primary oocytes aren't yet viable ova, however. Further biological processes are necessary, which don't begin until puberty.

The science in the Wikipedia article is daunting, but it may mean that your suggestion needs to be modified. Conception shouldn't start when the woman is born, but only when she reaches puberty.

[libodem]

77. This is small government?

How?

[Gemini Cat]

80. Wow. Just wow.

She really hates women.

[Zoeisright]

81. There are many states I will no longer visit.

Arizona, Texas, and Florida being the top three. For exactly theses reasons. I will not give money to mouth-breathers who are mean, cruel, stupid, nosy, and ignorant.

[Joe the Liberal]

82. Just gettin that big Gub'mint off your back....

Republicans, getting the government off your back and sticking it in your uterus.

[Beartracks]

108. If I could rec this, I would. n/t

[NuttyFluffers]

83. does that mean women are aborting every month from menstruation?

i think it does, because it's a life in potential, right?

oooh! does that also make men forced to fertilize ovulating women so as to avert women from unconsciously aborting life?

oh my, arizona is spiraling into exciting parallel universe territory. fascinating.

[Quantess]

84. What if you have irregular periods

and your last menstrual period was 6 months ago, yet you discover you are pregnant? It happens.

[Namvet67]

86. The Arizona state flag needs to be changed to one identical to whatever the taliban's is

[kdmorris]

87. The definition of gestational age was not made up by the Arizona senate

And it's not just in Arizona. If you become pregnant ANYWHERE that has relatively good medical care, then you are considered to have been pregnant two weeks before conception.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestational_age

Women who go through IVF know that this is how the gestational age will be determined and it's standard practice, when moving to an OB from the reproductive endocrinologist, to just count back 14 days from the day of retrieval, even if that's not really the day of your last menstrual period. Because this practice has been around forever (all of my daughters' gestational ages were calculated from the first day of the last menstrual period in the 1980s, 1990s).

They are just further using that definition to limit the amount of time a woman can get an abortion - EVEN if she knows exactly when she got pregnant. Considering all of the other offensive bullshit in this amendment (forced ultrasounds, minors requiring consent, no abortions after 12 week gestational age) it's surprising that this one line in the bill is what everyone is upset about.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/50leg/2r/adopted/s.2036jud.pdf

[BlueIris]

88. Uglyville.

Location: Arizona.

Freaks. Freaks, every one of them.

[hifiguy]

90. The whirring sound you hear is

Barry Goldwater, spinning dervish-like in his grave.

"Today’s so-called ‘conservatives’ don’t even know what the word means. They think I’ve turned liberal because I believe a woman has a right to an abortion. That’s a decision that’s up to the pregnant woman, not up to the pope or some do-gooders or the Religious Right. It’s not a conservative issue at all" - Barry Goldwater

[KansDem]

94. What does this mean for one's tax return?

Can another "dependent" be claimed if a man and woman think they're going to have sex in a couple of weeks?

This needs answered right away. April 15 is only two days away!

[Safetykitten]

97. Great moments in history. "Janet, come to DC. Really, how nutty can they be without you?"

[99Forever]

99. Why do you hate unborn babies...

... and how dare you question gawd's will? Gawd intended for women to be incubators to be used at the will and control of men. Geezuz said so in the Babble, which id gawd's own words! Are you one of those Leftie Commies or what?



^^^(Just in case it's needed)^^^

[Rozlee]

118. Understand your sarcasm.

I've always found the bible singularly lacking in compassion for both the pregnant mother and the unborn. Witness the death sentence Tamar got in Genesis when patriarch, Judah, discovered her pregnant out of wedlock. No waiting until the bab(ies) were born, just immediate death by burning. Lucky for Tamar, she outed Judah as the father. And the Prophet Hosea ordered Israelis to kill the Samarian pregnant women; "rip open their bellies" and "dash their little ones' heads against rocks." Not to mention the ordeal of Sotah, or the drinking of Bitter Waters, to make a woman abort if her husband accused her of being pregnant by another man's child. Horrible book. Every time someone calls it "The Good Book" I feel like hurling green pea soup.

[deacon]

100. This now makes all women in AZ pregnant! lol

[tanyev]

103. You'd think Arizona of all places would be concerned about anchor embryos.

[Swede Atlanta]

104. I think............

this law is to punish all the women that didn't put out for those fat, old, white legislators at the um-pah convention in Phoenix last year. "That'll show em" not to let us fool around on our wives (possibly multiple wives).

[Beartracks]

106. So... An eye-twinkle is constitutionally protected in AZ?

Oh, look ----> <--- This couple can now claim an Arizona state tax deduction because they're getting ready to have sex!

============================

[MoonRiver]

109. No words!

[veness]

117. This may be an absurdity to shift attention...

....from so many important issues.

[pink-o]

119. So women get Big Govt in our wombs...and yet, if you want to carry a gun to work in Missouri...

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/bill-to-bar-employer-bias-against-gun-owners-gets-ok/article_b1352fe5-d418-54cb-a8df-626428565de7.html

[caseymoz]

120. Funny, but no laughing matter.

I'm sure 300 years from now they'll be laughing. However, right now, if you're pro-choice and laughing instead of outraged, you're stupid.

The pro-choice, pro-reproductive rights people are in retreat now, and they'd better change strategies fast. What's so sad here is, the Pro-choicers have squandered a winning position (just as NORML did in the '70s) because from NARAL on down, they were afraid, yes, afraid, to find their message and stick with it.

MY ADVICE TO FELLOW PRO-CHOICERS:

What I suggest is: stop accusing the other side of misogyny or chauvinism. Yes, it is their actual the motive. They show it repeatedly with their proposals and with Freudian Gaffs. However, socially and politically, accusing them of it is a loser, because misogyny appears to be mostly an unconscious motive. Therefore, by definition, Anti-choicers can neither acknowledge it as their main drive, nor change it without serious psychiatric treatment. Moreover, since they don't see that motive in themselves, it means other people often can't see it either. So their arguments will have sway with the populace if the message is simple enough and follow principles of propaganda.

Stop deconstructing anti-choicer motives. This gains nothing except accolades from other Pro-choicers.

Instead, we have to start meeting and beating Anti-choicer's propaganda with a simple counter-argument. Here it is: a zygote is a child, not a person. A fetus is not a child not a person. Say that enough and point to this simple evidence: You take a fetus out of the womb, it dies. You put a child back in the womb, the child dies. You could follow it with things like: if the fetus were a person, your duty would be to rescue it from the womb, because if its a person, the one of the worst prisons you could imaginable.

You could say other things to counter the religious argument. Such as, "God is not going to punish our nation for abortion." He hasn't done it to any other nation.

And keep it as basic and simple as their slogan: "Life begins at conception." As nonsensical as that statement is, it follows the rules of propaganda, that is: it's simple, and they repeat it year after year. Over time, unopposed, it has gained converts and rallied them.

You might cite scientific evidence when you actually debate, because the science is on the our side, but remember keep the basic message simple and just repeat it. That's what's important.

You can't do anything against their unconscious motives, but you can disarm them by attacking the conscious rationalizations. Misogyny can't gain a foothold without a conscious cover story like protecting "the sanctity of life." Stay on topic. Start trying to meet and beat Anti-choicers own arguments.

All is not lost yet, but sheesh, we've lost so much. Pro-choicers: get your act together. Start taking responsibility for a socio-political contest that is yours to lose.

As it is, if I were a young woman, I would leave Arizona, and Oklahoma. I suggest hetero- and bisexual women do this in protest. Definitely, don't have sex with men in states passing laws like theirs. That will at least keep the issue in the forefront.

[Devil_Fish]

122. This is great, Women should all move to AZ and take out 12 Life insurance policies a year.

12 dependents a year on your taxes.

Just about any female can qualify for food stamps now!

Out laws should look out, they kill a woman who isn't menstraiting, thats double homocide right there.

Do they have car pool lanes in AZ?

[Generic Brad]

123. Saying it does not make it so

Where are the sane voters in Arizona?

[Waros]

124. Ok?

You know the answer? She has to deal with it, so easy to criticize. Tell us about life, when it begins, how its to be dealt with, what state ordained u their spokesperon?