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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPutin is on the march; ISIL is at Turkey's borders. I am beginning to think Hillary...
Hillary, often accused here of being "hawkish" and unforgiven by some for -- well, being a Clinton (despite everything the Big Dog has done for us all, both in and out of office) -- has a sturdy Democratic record in many domestic policy areas. She intentionally built up her foreign policy creds via the Senate committees she served on, and then by accepting the post of Secretary of State. That much is known.
Who else do we have in the running, including on the Fantasy Team -- especially on the Fantasy Team, that has those kinds of foreign policy creds?
It's all well and good to work for peace, to pray for it, to wish for it. Diplomacy is a subtle game, and a long one. God knows we need diplomats, and I hope our next president understands that as well as our current one does. Not every problem is a nail requiring a hammer -- unless it is.
But sometimes The World does not co-operate. The current situation is as bad as anything I've seen in my lifetime, and I was born during the Truman administration. Other countries must be persuaded to step up and do the job they also pledged to do; the US may be "the indispensable nation," but we can't be the only one.
So, in the face of an undeclared Democratic field for 2016, and in the face of entities outside our borders who really lust for war and can't be ignored, I've been thinking about the allegedly hawkish Hillary. My husband put it pretty well a couple of nights ago: When it comes to facing up to Putin, I think I'd want Hillary and Bill Clinton on our side.
Those who want to can pull out their flamethrowers. Otherwise, I'd be interested in a rational point of view.
Hekate
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)At least i hope so.
Hekate
(90,829 posts)I see her as a highly intelligent person and supremely rational, both traits I like when harnessed to Democratic principles. She wouldn't be perfect, but those who know me know that I will go for "good enough" any day.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I hope people give her a chance.
Hekate
(90,829 posts)JEB
(4,748 posts)delrem
(9,688 posts)coming immediately after her "R2P Libya" movement, brought unbounded peace and prosperity to the region as compared to before. My heart just gurgles in delight! I'm sure a President H. Clinton would bring much more of that kind of peace and goodwill to the world and I anticipate the day!
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Hekate
(90,829 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)in making the world more peaceful, in your opinion?
Over all, between her time in the Senate or her time as SoS, did her actions help or harm more people abroad?
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Hekate
(90,829 posts)I'd like to know -- I really would.
Putin is obviously nostalgic for the old saber-rattling days. Tell me he's not, and I'll laugh in your face. ISIL is not a nation, but a dispersed gang of thugs who really want us there in person so they can kill us. And there's more.
Under the circs, I think the dogs of war have been unleashed and not by Obama.
Now what?
eridani
(51,907 posts)Let's turf him out and let them take over.
Hekate
(90,829 posts)I'm too tired for irony tonight, so if that's it I'm missing the point.
Putin is an old USSR/KGB man. The US may have future proxy wars with the former Soviets, but I don't see direct action, ever. Sanctions, yes. Negotiations on some things, yes. But...
eridani
(51,907 posts)Ever since the collapse of the old Soviet Union, the US and NATO have proceeded to surround Russia with hostile military bases, after having promised not to expand NATO. It doesn't matter who is in charge--they'll be pushed by powerful factions in Russia not to put up with this.
Hekate
(90,829 posts)sendero
(28,552 posts).... from Bill who did so much for us, we got:
"free" no reciprocity trade with China
ending of "welfare as we know it"
NAFTA
signing the repleal of Glass-Stegall (impossible to overstate the damage from that one)
signing of the Commodity Fututes Modernization Act (set the stage for the current shadow banking system killing our economy)
the tripling of H1B visas
So what GOOD did we get from the "big dog"? Because I'll bet you anything it is no where near the bad. Yes we had a booming economy while Bill was president. He had little to do with it, it was driven by technology. Bill Clinton did more to set the stage for our currently fucked up economy that ANYONE. So enjoy your smug "fantasy".
CK_John
(10,005 posts)jumping the gun.
Then WWIII. If you don't smell the scent of war, your lucky.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Hillary (along with Power and Rice)--what a stupid clusterfuck. Obama should have overridden her and listened to Biden. If that's her foreign policy instincts....no fucking thanks.
sheshe2
(83,929 posts)However I admire Hillary. She pushed for diplomacy as national security. She went a long way to repaired America's image in the world. The one that Bushco did their best to obliterate.
Several more weeks to 2014! Then I will discuss 2016 at length with you.
Thanks for the thread, Hekate. So good to see you back again.
GeorgeGist
(25,323 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)cwydro
(51,308 posts)saying she would start wars.
Wow, look we are now...And Hillary is not president.
Maven
(10,533 posts)If only he'd been in Congress at the time. Except now he's relying on it to start a new war!
Cha
(297,723 posts)have to do.. when the bush-cheney bunch opened that big ol can of worms in the ME back on March 20, 2003.
Look who else Supports attacking ISIS with Airstrikes.. Jimmy Carter, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren all well respected leaders, have access and know a hellava lot more about this than those on the internet who can't grasp this isn't being run by the bush-cheney neocon crowd.
"I think we need to attack ISIS. I'm really concerned about them."
"Is the bombing of ISIS justified? I say yes. And I hope President Obama has every possible success in getting allies to join with us, some with ground troops effected inside Syria."
FrodosPet http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5566788
Bernie stands with the President on this "Enormously complicated issue".. as he calls it. He disagrees with staying out of ISIS like some around are clamoring on about.
As he stated it's an "International effort" and guess what.. "they have to put money in it too."
Hartman and he talked about one republiCon saying.. they'll "blast him if it doesn't work and ask why he didn't do it sooner if it does." Sounds like a familiar whine.
Senators Warren and Sanders are on board with the President..
FrodosPet http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5527989
Sen. Elizabeth Warren says she supports President Obama's decision to authorize airstrikes in Iraq
BOSTON Warning against a new U.S. war in Iraq, U.S. Sen. Elizabeth Warren on Friday stood by President Barack Obamas decision to authorize targeted airstrikes to help defend Americans in Erbil, Iraq, and provide aid to a religious minority taking refuge in the Sinjar mountains.
Its a complicated situation right now in Iraq and the president has taken very targeted actions to provide humanitarian relief that the Iraqi government requested, and to protect American citizens, Warren told reporters. But like the president I believe that any solution in Iraq is going to be a negotiated solution, not a military solution. We do not want to be pulled into another war in Iraq.
Senator Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., said she supports president Barack Obama's decision to authorize new airstrikes in Iraq but cautioned against U.S. involvement in a new war in the Middle East.
http://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2014/08/sen_elizabeth_warren_warns_abo.html
Yeah, and "Hillary is not president".. thank goodness.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,241 posts)Cha
(297,723 posts)hell with the facts.
Notice how Bernie says "they have to put money in it too." in the Vid. If you don't have time to see that.. I've put it into quotes in the post. That kinda blows their.. "Bernie and Elizabeth aren't funding Obama's War" headline and meme. Bernie obviously wants other countries to put in Money for the Airstrikes against ISIS, too.. Oooops.
Tarheell
Hekate
(90,829 posts)Mahalo nui, Cha.
Cha
(297,723 posts)the propaganda.. " ..starting a war". ..yeah right.
Maven
(10,533 posts)Please stop posting this drivel in every thread in an effort to misrepresent their position.
They have been consistent in their support for INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION to address this issue, not a unilateral bombing campaign, land war or arming Syrian Rebels.
Cha
(297,723 posts)"In a statement, Sen. Sanders said, The United States is not the only country on Earth with an air force. While I support President Obamas decision to use airstrikes to protect the lives of thousands of innocent people of the Yazidi minority, the U.S. should not have to act alone militarily in this crisis. ISIS is a danger to the entire region and to the world. The international community must work with the U.S.
http://www.politicususa.com/2014/08/13/sounding-presidential-candidate-bernie-sanders-u-s-act-iraq.html
Leyla @MiamiLib
Follow
The French Did For President Obama What They Refused To Do For Bush http://nydn.us/1tz28Oy
#p2 #tcot #uniteblue #teaparty #gop #lnyhbt
8:43 AM - 23 Sep 2014
Au revoir, ISIS fighters: French jets kill dozens of jihadists,...
The French did for President Obama on Friday what they refused to do for his predecessor they joined the fight in Iraq.
New York Daily News @NYDailyNews
72 Retweets 20 favorites
http://theobamadiary.com/2014/09/23/a-tweet-or-two-125/
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Or, were they to build up her Badasss creds?
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)right?
Cha
(297,723 posts)I am not thinking "Hillary-2016" at all.
Things can change, of course.. anyway I'll see how I feel in 2016. Right now it's all about 2014 Midterms and getting President Obama some more Dems who can hopefully help him and our country to move forward.
Hekate
(90,829 posts)My ballot's not filled in for 2016 yet, either.
I should know better than to look for a reasoned discussion in GD by this time anyway.... Too much reflexive hatred aimed at Dems.
Cha
(297,723 posts)that because I respect you.
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,241 posts)gets underway. The world's on fire, and as much as we say we don't want to be involved, Americans don't like being seen as uncertain when it comes to foreign policy. A few months ago, the country was anti-interventionist, and all it took was some sadistic assholes killing a couple of our own to bring out the hawk in the American public. Go figure.
mazzarro
(3,450 posts)Was Nuland not a GWBush holdover? Does Hilliary's "foreign policy" creds include the decision to keep Nuland and other holdovers at the State and other departs where they will continue their support for Bush's policies?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)opine on "holdovers."
cali
(114,904 posts)safety net, education, infrastructure and ever encroaching corporate influence and control over the political system than I am about Putin or ISIS.
Hillary is your fantasy. she's more like my nightmare.
djean111
(14,255 posts)My nightmare too.
You are not the only one who misses my point. My question, explicitly stated, is regarding the warmongers manifesting themselves beyond our borders and has nothing to do with Hillary being my "fantasy."
My issue is that whether I want it to be so or not, it is so. What I want more than anything in the world is for my government to behave rationally, compassionately, and Constitutionally on the things I care most about, which are exactly what you named.
What I see happening in real life is that not only are the GOP and other RW elements continuing to make good on their oath to oppose everything Obama stands for regardless of who it hurts, but that forces beyond our borders are actively doing everything in their power to suck us into the vortex of violence that Obama has done what he can to extract us from. In the Mideast this is the legacy of Bush-Cheney, lest we forget, and like Frankenstein's monster now has a life of its own. Putin's aggression is another matter that must be dealt with. China is casting greedy and challenging eyes at a variety of Pacific islands, in case you are not aware of that.
I don't see how this is the fault of Obama, but he will have to do something about all of it -- and so will whoever we elect in 2016. Diplomacy may very likely not be enough. It will divert attention and funds from domestic issues.
Here at DU the two most popular non-candidates for 2016 are Warren and Sanders. They won't win a national election, which is why I call them the Fantasy Team. However here they are so popular that others need not apply, or so it seems. Hillary only gets mentioned so she can be bashed, but oddly enough the favorite knock on her is that she is a hawk. I think we're heading for more war (pushed from outside, never mind Mad McCain) than we can even imagine, and I seriously wonder who we've got on the Democratic side who can step up to that challenge. The so-called hawk?
It's been on my mind. Probably I should have waited another month and a half before posting the OP, but I doubt the response would have differed much. There is a level of Clinton-hatred here at DU that rivals that of the RW poison that has been leveled at both Hillary and Bill for over 20 years. It's kind of pathetic -- I used to be able to come here for actual discussions, but never mind.
cali
(114,904 posts)President Obama has in many ways, followed a corporate template. Hillary, I believe would do so even more, and the corporate template is thoroughly entwined with all manner of things that run contrary to the issues you think important.
I don't expect government to act compassionately or rationally as long as corporate influence and control are so prevalent.
I don't think Bernie can win a national election and Warren isn't running. I hope Bernie runs- as a democrat- to broaden the discussion on issues. I hope someone other than hillary runs who is viable. We'll see.
I think Hillary is on the wrong side of too many issues to earn my vote. I also think that she keeps doing stuff that leads to the antipathy so many here have for her. Not to mention her history- and I'm not just referring to her vote on the IWR.
I also think that though she may well get the nomination, it won't be a stroll.
Erose999
(5,624 posts)about income inequality, privacy and civil liberties, education policy, climate change, and protecting the safety net.
Hillary is my dead last choice out of the 2016 Democratic contenders.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,323 posts)Will join Putin if She is not elected?