Why are DUers buying into this crap about Iran from the corporate media?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

On another thread in LBN, I see people making jokes about Iran being upset that yet another U.S. aircraft carrier is moving into the Persian Gulf.

Look I know the Iranian government is oppressive to their own people, but they have not actually attacked anyone, nor do they seem ready to do so. Iran is arming up because it's surrounded on all sides by a country that considers it part of the axis of evil--along with Iraq and North Korea, and we all know what happened to Iraq.

(And who cares what Ahmadinejab says? His powers are limited, and he is term-limited out in 2013.)

If China started building up military bases in Canada and Mexico and sent aircraft carriers to the Caribbean, Atlantic, and Pacific coasts, wouldn't we be nervous?

The U.S. has troops in Iraq (no, they aren't all gone yet), Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Uzbekistan as well as carriers in the Persian Gulf. According to my world map, that amounts to SURROUNDED.

And if they didn't have oil, no one would even notice them, just as the corporate media paid no attention to the Taliban in Afghanistan until after they rejected the proposal to put an oil pipeline across their territory.

After all the disastrous and downright evil things the U.S. has done in Iraq and Afghanistan (torture of prisoners, extraordinary rendition without due process, rocket attacks on entire villages to kill one guy), why is ANYONE on DU apparently spoiling for a fight with Iran?

[Lawlbringer]

1. I haven't seen many around here

who applaud the sabre rattling. I can't even remember the last time someone posted news on the "conflict" and didn't add a measure of sarcasm along with it.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

3. Take a look at this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101493133

[xchrom]

2. imagine what DU's reaction would be if boooosh were still pretzeldent. nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. Right, they'd be outraged

Years ago, I heard Jimmy Carter speak, and when someone asked him why he wasn't more aggressive in getting the hostages back, he replied that he had consulted experts on Iranian culture, who had told him that in that culture, anyone who backs down against a direct public threat loses face. He therefore switched to behind-the-scenes negotiations through third countries, with the added warning (not public, but through channels) that he would bomb Tehran if the hostages were harmed.

Note that none of the hostages were harmed. In fact, when one of them began developing strange neurological symptoms, the Iranians sent him home, not wanting to risk his dying in their custody. (He turned out to have multiple sclerosis.)

What is happening now looks like a direct provocation on the part of the U.S. It's as if they're deliberately trying to poke that particular hornet's nest so as to give the military-industrial complex an excuse to make more money.

This will not end well for either side.

[polly7]

17. It's not like there isn't plenty of history to go by.

&feature=player_embedded#!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

21. This should be an OP!

Most Americans don't know any of this stuff.

[RZM]

31. How does Desert One fit into that? n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

8. Yep!

[bullwinkle428]

4. It's pathetic. It's almost a kind of "willful Alzheimer's", if you will, when looking at our

(incredibly) recent past history of war in the Middle East.

[malaise]

5. No n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

6. rec.

[Dragonfli]

9. The ones that buy the crap are diverse, there are those that need to be led and so

will believe whatever their chosen leader asks them to, there are Neo-cons re-branded as Neo-libs posing as "New Democrats" that are leading them off their neo-con cliff.

There are also the uneducated clueless and the trolls.


Take your pick from all of the above.

nice to see you around

[Lydia Leftcoast]

10. Likewise, I'm sure

[teddy51]

11. Excellent post in a layout of reality! n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

12. For those who need help in seeing Iranian people as human beings,

I suggest the following media:

Rick Steves' travel special on Iran

The following movies made in Iran:

A Time for Drunken Horses--Kurds living on the border between Iran and Iraq
The Circle--the plight of women in Iran, told in a character-to-character "Slacker"-type narrative
The Lizard--a comedy about an escaped prisoner who poses as a mullah
Gabbeh--a romantic drama told in flashbacks centered on a Gabbeh rug

[teddy51]

13. Yep, I watched the program with Rick Steve's and it was very good. n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. Yes, he said that he regretted not doing something similar in Iraq

before 2003.

[gratuitous]

24. As I recall, someone did a little travelogue on Iraq pre-invasion

That person got savaged by a blood-thirsty, flag-waving media, eager for slaughter in Iraq. One of the comments (besides the usual jingoism about being insufficiently supportive of the troops) was how the footage made Iraqis seem like ordinary human beings, who went about their day and their business just like regular people.

As to your original point about why people (regardless of politics) seem blasé about the prospects of another imperial invasion, the short answer is that advertising works, and we are constantly inundated with ads extolling the wonders and virtues of invading Iran and putting things to right. We haven't yet gotten to the point where the Wise Men of Washington begin telling us about all the "lessons learned" in Iraq and Afghanistan, and how this time it's going to be different, oh boy, just you wait and see.

That will be the time to either start getting really nervous, or resign ourselves to the fait about to be accomplied.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. That's the last thing warmongers want

I had a high school classmate who was a red-hot Cold Warrior. He'd be a freeper nowadays if he were still alive.

Our world history teacher showed a documentary about everyday life in the Soviet Union. It showed things like children on the first day of school, people commuting to work on the subway, people working at various jobs, and a wedding reception with a lot of drinking and dancing.

Afterwards, I heard him complaining to the teacher: "They're trying to wipe us off the face of the earth, and you go and show a film about (whiny, satirical voice) how nice the Russian people are!"

[MisterP]

45. then again, it's not like Bush, Obama, Cheney, Clinton, etc., etc. would suddenly realize how human

their targets were

I'm afraid the only thing he could do is go to like Basra or Abadan and say, "Goodness, there's so little oil here!"

[sendero]

16. I have no problem seeing them as human beings..

.. however, having a close friend who came here (from Iran) when he was 10, his assessment of what the GOVERNMENT HAS DONE and IS CAPABLE OF differs vastly from yours.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

20. But who was belligerent first?

That's the question.

I have no quarrel with those who cite that government's terrible human rights record.

The Iranian people have already made moves to throw off that system. Left to themselves, they will eventually succeed.

However, if the U.S. attacks Iran, I have no doubt that all those young people who demonstrated against the government will fight back against the foreign invader. Unlike the Iraqis, they are mostly of the same ethnic group and variety of Islam.

[sendero]

36. Don't get me wrong.

.... I am not for carrying out military action against Iran at this time. And I agree, Iran is one of those cases of which history is littered in which the government's actions don't remotely reflect the will of the citizens. Hell,even here in the USA they don't.

Now, if I had intelligence (with some credibility, which rules out the CIA and the like) that said they had created a nuke and a long range delivery device, well I don't know. Things would get tough. Because I fundamentally believe the Iranian govt is bat shit insane.

[uponit7771]

27. The US can cast a stone on how terrible it can be?!

[sabrina 1]

41. If he was living under the Shah, his assessment is shared by many Iranians.

[polly7]

28. Here is a lecture by Rick Steve's on Brasscheck TV, I'm not sure if it's the one you're thinking of

but it's excellent, imo.

US businessman visits Iran

http://www.brasschecktv.com/videos/iranus-sabre-rattling/us-businessman-visits-iran.html

[Lydia Leftcoast]

30. It's not, but it's the same general idea

It gives background on the filming of the program that was shown on PBS a couple of years ago.

[polly7]

32. Ty, I'll have to look up the PBS program and watch it, I bet it was good. nt.

[ancianita]

37. Please add the latest movie, "The Separation." It is amazing. Beautiful.

I now understand Sharia courts because of it.

[quinnox]

14. there are many who also seem to think the drones are a wonderful

tool to kill people too, or that the US has a right to kill anyone in any country if they suspect they are terrorist, or see no problem with the reducing of civil liberties and privacy in the name of security. The patriotism propaganda fools some folks, especially when a Democrat is president which makes it harder to think independently in terms of the way you do and other progressives/liberals do.

[Egalitarian Thug]

18. They've been laying the groundwork for this since reagan.

It's been accelerated for the last decade and your observation about DU members spoiling for a fight just shows how effective it has been.
K&R

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. Yes, and I've noticed in the last few years that stories about human rights abuses in Iran

have picked up.

This is ominous, because the same thing happened with stories about Iraq and Afghanistan before those invasions.

[Egalitarian Thug]

47. If you can, bet money on it, and then tell me where so I can lay some $$ down, too.

Those "Hajji mother-fuckers" are siting on OUR OIL! We must kill them and take it!

Disclaimer; The preceding statement in no way reflects my opinion or belief. But this next punch has been telegraphed, mailed, texted, and twittered for years and if this President refuses to invade, the next one will.

[Snake Alchemist]

19. You're either with us or you're against us. nt

[Octafish]

22. Same reason so many bought into the shit about September 11...

...and Afghanistan...and Iraq...and Congo...and wherever they want to steal the oil and grab the natural resources:

If it was on TV, it's gotta be true.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. I have a bad feeling about this one

that if this turns into a war, it will be the one in which our establishment bit off more than it could chew.

It will have major blowback, perhaps in turning world opinion against the U.S. so sharply that they will actually do something about it.

[Octafish]

33. Precisely the same feelings here.

If anything will make Russia, India and China become BFF again, it's us attacking Iran. The blowback will be tremendous and felt from Tehran to Tel Aviv to Washington and all the points where the breeze will carry the radioactive fallout.

Maybe that's what the satanic global elite wants. They'll crawl out from under their secure, undisclosed locations and join their surviving brethren, the cockroaches.

PS: Hey, Agent Mike! We're both patriots who love our country, etc etc etc. The thing is, we also don't like our nation being run off the cliff by fascist warmonger gangsters.

[Zalatix]

23. Yeah not too long ago I believed Iran was building up a nuclear weapons program

Now I demand some hard evidence. The MIC can't be effin' trusted. Iran's not going to launch any nukes, even an idiot can see that wouldn't end well for them.

If they've got something evil cooking then hit them with another Stuxnet and be done with it.

[eridani]

46. Crappy idea. It got loose in cyberspace

Which means that hundreds of thousands of hackers are now working it over, many with maliciious intent.

[Zalatix]

50. A crappy idea, but bound to happen at some point.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

34. Erect bogeyman. Wave flag. Send in the assassins, drones, bombers. Demand more money for the MIC.

Works every time.

[Uncle Joe]

35. The built up fear of Iran promoted by the corporate media is ridiculous to the point of absurdity.

What if the worst were to happen and Iran built or obtained nuclear weapons, what are they going to do with them?

We stood up to the Soviet Union for near half a century and they had thousands of nukes, now Iran may or may not develop or build one within the next couple of decades.

How many times could we nuke that nation out of existence if they started throwing nukes around, a thousand, two thousand?

Their government may be crazy but they're not insane.

Thanks for the thread, Lydia Leftcoast.

[ancianita]

39. One thing mainstream media don't tell Americans -- Google Maps shows

that Iran is literally surrounded by US and NATO allied military bases. You can find and count them yourself. Months ago I counted 42. I had to do it several times in order to believe my eyes. Now, it takes more work to find them on Google. But they're there. Nothing is likely to be going in or out of that country that the US and NATO allies don't know about. Just the spreading of that one fact could turn the temperature way down on the bullshit discourse that media are trying to promote. One reason that fact hasn't gotten public visibility is probably because it could shut any public discussion down altogether. Then, for the first time without public approval, the military would just have to proceed with the bold-faced program it and Big Oil have been trying to run for decades, anyway.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. Yes, I see the U.S. or one of its allies more likely to nuke Iran than

Last edited Fri Apr 13, 2012, 03:36 PM - Edit history (1)

the other way around.

[pasto76]

38. troops are OUT of iraq

any that remain are state department/embassy related. Can put up a hell of a defensive fight, but hardly occupiers any longer.

[Typical NYC Lib]

40. This one ain't!

Rec

[blackspade]

42. No clue.

The Iranian boogyman is such a farce.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. Americans are astoundingly ignorant of the histories and cultures of other countries

And so many of them don't want to know. That's what gets me.

As a former foreign language teacher who planned cultural activities and tried to arrange interactions with foreign students, I was deeply frustrated at how many college students, supposedly the upper 1/3 in intelligence, told me that foreign movies were "boring," reading about foreign countries was "boring," foreign students were "boring." It was as if "boring" was their catch-all phrase for "I don't know about this and I don't want to know."

Back when my high school hosted foreign exchange students, the questions that not only students but local adults would ask were embarrassing. "Do you have stores in Japan?" "Do you have cars in Norway?" "Do you have doctors in Argentina?" "Have you ever seen a kangaroo?" (This to an Austrian exchange student).

A friend of mine expatriated in Japan (not a DUer) said that among his vast extended family, the most conservative people were the ones who rarely left their home country and had no desire to. In his family, the people who had traveled and especially lived overseas were the farthest left.

I see the same thing in my own family. The left and right orientations are in direct proportion to experience outside one's comfort zone. Lately, there has been research to show that liberalism correlates with intellectual curiosity and a desire for novelty.

[slipslidingaway]

48. knr nt

[bvar22]

49. DURec. Deja Vu all over again.

Being surrounded by hostile forces with a reputation for asking questions later tends to produce radical governments.
I can understand WHY a large number of Iranians might want a BOMB.
Historically, the US does NOT attack countries with Nuclear weapons.


Herman Goering said it best, and you can currently observe this process at work (even on DU) with the target being Iran.

"Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship."

"...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."--- Herman Goering, Spandau Prison, 1946

"But the most brilliant propaganda technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. Here, as so often in this world, persistence is the first and most important requirement for success.".

----volume 1, chapter 6 of Mein Kampf (1925)

Can you hear the Drums?
I can.


[font size=4 color=firebrick]
If you're not FOR the WAR in Vietnam Afghanistan Iraq Libya IRAN,
you're WITH The Communists AlQaeda The Terrorists Saddam Qaddafi The Ayatollahs!!![/font]

Thanks, Lydia.
Good to see ya.



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
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[EFerrari]

51. Kick