General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWe flew back from London Saturday, and our flight had a lot of folks from Sierra Leone
I must admit it made me afraid... They had SO much luggage it was clear they were not planning to go home soon. I do not blame them, had I been there and had I the money I would have left Sierra Leone myself. That said, the fact a couple of these folks were coughing and congested has left us feeling a bit paranoid.... : (
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)Symptoms of Ebola include
Fever (greater than 38.6°C or 101.5°F)
Severe headache
Muscle pain
Weakness
Diarrhea
Vomiting
Abdominal (stomach) pain
Unexplained hemorrhage (bleeding or bruising)
Symptoms may appear anywhere from 2 to 21 days after exposure to Ebola, but the average is 8 to 10 days.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Then it evolves into a full blown flu.
I know cold symptoms are not ebola, but flu symptoms are similar. Did our flight companions have ebola? No idea.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)go to hospital and get quarantined
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)congested, (coming from one of the hot zones) were allowed to board. RIDICULOUS and STUPIDLY crazy!!
peacebird
(14,195 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)me, too.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)I seriously can't blame anybody for being concerned right now; I know I'd be on guard if somebody next to me was having that problem regardless of what they looked like. So don't worry about it too much.
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)and I don't see anything racist about them. I would probably have the same concerns, but unless they sneezed right in your face, you could not have contracted ebola, if they were even exposed to it and were infectious
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,620 posts)This is a direct quote from an article about Ebola. Here's the link for the rest: http://qz.com/273972/stay-calm-and-carry-on-why-its-nearly-impossible-for-ebola-to-spread-in-the-us/
Ebolas not airborne. It can only be spread through bodily fluids. The virus spreads when blood, semen, urine, vomit, feces, or other bodily fluids of an infected person come into contact with someone elses mucus membranes.
And its not just any infected personits a symptomatic infected person. People can only catch ebola from someone actually exhibiting symptoms. Those include vomiting, diarrhea, and, in some cases, hemorrhaging of mucus membranes, such as nose, nail beds and eyesin other words, pretty hard to miss.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Here's an article that tries to break down what is airborne transmission and what is "aerosol" transmission, where if you are close enough to a person where they cough on you "droplets" that are large enough for the disease to live long enough before they get in contact with you, especially in areas like your eyes, etc. on your face, then you could catch it.
http://virologydownunder.blogspot.com/2014/08/ebola-virus-may-be-spread-by-droplets.html
It might be smart for airlines to have passengers from those areas not sitting next to those passengers that aren't travelling together to minimize the chance a cough of phlegm or something like that infecting someone else.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,620 posts)There is so much hysteria that surrounds this disease that I am trying to inject a little rationality. And I do not include you in the hysteria, just to be clear.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... what is risky and what is not risky being near someone with Ebola. I think it's important that what some people think is "airborne" may not be the clinical term for it, and they might think that aerosol transmission through droplets is not hazardous, which it sounds like it is.
I think we should not panic and think that it is as bad as what seemed to be a deadly home made DNA targeting virus that was targeted to kill someone through airborne means in the last episode of the new tv series Scorpion on Monday night that had them set off a fire sprinkler in a mall to have it "flushed" out of the air before infecting the target of the bio attack, but people need to look at the details here. That one seemed a lot more "airborne" than Ebola is, and probably shouldn't panic people in to thinking that this might be how it spreads here.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,620 posts)And you know people do seem to believe any old TV show with faulty science before they'll believe the CDC or other professional body. The truth needs to get out there and it needs to be super clear.
Hutzpa
(11,461 posts)because the goal is to create pandemonium across the board if possible.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)But if someone had Ebola and was coughing (and sometimes viruses make asthmatics cough), they could put droplets of saliva into the air and someone within 3 feet could be exposed.
In other words, someone sitting next to a coughing Ebola patient on a plane could be exposed. And an Ebola patient could cough, even if it wasn't a standard feature of the disease.
enid602
(8,620 posts)They could have a card placed over one of the seats to distinguish between the ebola and non ebola sections
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)a cough or sneeze. In fact, during the outbreak before this one, in Uganda in 2012, the infection was from primates to pigs. The scientists couldn't, at first, figure out how the infection was transmitted to the pigs. The figured out that the infection was AIRBORNE placing 4 piglets that had been inoculated with Ebola Zaire in a room with 4 cynomolgus macaques. They were separated by wire cages to prevent direct contact. Guess what? Within a few days, the piglets started to become sick. However, pigs only get respiratory illness with a fever. It DOES NOT kill them & 9 days after infection, the piggies were recovering....HOWEVER, within 4 days after placement in the room with the inoculated pigs, 2 of the MONKEYS were sick and 4 days later, the other 2 were sick.
Because there was NO DIRECT CONTACT and in fact, after examination, the evidence in the lungs of the macaques showed the the virus was INHALED!! The scariest part of all is that this was Ebola Zaire which has a 90% MORTALITY RATE! The scientist said that they don't believe that the virus is airborne, it's VERY easily transmitted via droplets from "SNEEZING, COUGHING or any other thing that causes ejection of droplets of saliva, mucus etc. The human beings were infected by infected piggies who got the virus from airborne droplets and fomites, from fruit that they were eating, contaminated with the virus and dropped to the ground by the macaques. the pigs ate the dropped pieces of fruit AND also inhaled droplets from the infected macaques.
NOW, in 1989, there was a REALLY scarey outbreak of a simian haemorrhagic fever,( EBOLA is just the most well known one but they're are many), in RESTON VIRGINIA that spread through the cynomolgus macaques, (crab eating macaques) that had been imported FROM THE PHILIPINES!! It was ACCIDENTLY discovered during a microscopic examination of tissue samples. We dodged a bullet because although because although an animal handler cut himself DURING a necropsy but NEVER got sick. LUCKILY, Ebola Reston has VERY low pathogenicity in humans, is, it doesn't make US sick. However, ALL the monkeys were euthanised and incinerated and the lab was STERILISED....using EXTREME methods.
So, YES, It freaks me out because this is a virus that seems to be able to, like so many other RNA viruses to MUTATE and the fact that there are PROVEN cases where there was transmitted through exhaled droplets, that while not truly airborne transmission, might as well be for the poor schmuck who happens to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
If there was little to no chance of INHALING infected droplets, do you REALLY think that they would be observing such strict infection prevention using MASKS, GOGGLES, SUITS, TWO OF MORE PAIR OF GLOVES & SHOE COVERS, that are taped closed at the wrists and ankles AND then sprayed down with BLEACH? Though most Ebolaviruses aren't as infectious and transmissible as influenza, to say that there is NO chance of infection via sneezing and coughing. NOT true... PERIOD.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)before they are allowed to leave the impacted countries. If they show a fever, they are banned from flight and isolated.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)they check them when they depart from the affected countries, but not when they land.
Personally, I think that is a mistake. They should be checked at both ends so if a fever developed during the flight they can start monitoring immediately.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)You don't know if temperatures were checked. They don't use thermometers.
Using an infra red camera, the temperature of everyone in a crowd can be checked in an instant.
In some airports, this is more obvious than in others.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)There were blog posts from foreigners who were put in hospitals for quarantine because they were sick.
I flew into Sydney at that time and there was a non-obtrusive little desk in the gangway to customs with a couple of guys staring at a monitor.
I looked back at is as I passed, and it was IR video of the hallway, and they were looking for warm faces.
BooScout
(10,406 posts)It will drop your temperature to normal.........yes it will even drop the temperature of a fevered victim of Ebola. If those such as patient zero in the US want to 'escape' to the west then they can and will.
madokie
(51,076 posts)and one thing stands out to me like a sore thumb. The bold text part. Especially the last sentence
Sierra Leone (Listeni/sɪˈɛərə lɪˈoʊni, -lɪˈoʊn/),[5] officially the Republic of Sierra Leone, is a country in West Africa. Sierra Leone has a tropical climate, with a diverse environment ranging from savannah to rainforests. Sierra Leone has a total area of 71,740 km2 (27,699 sq mi)[6] and with an estimated population of 6 million (2011 United Nations estimate).[7][8] Freetown is the capital, largest city, and its economic and political centre. The country is divided into four geographical regions: the Northern Province, Eastern Province, Southern Province and the Western Area; which are further divided into fourteen districts.
About sixteen ethnic groups inhabit Sierra Leone, each with its own language and custom. The two largest and most influential are the Temne and the Mende.[9] The Temne are predominantly found in the north of the country, while the Mende are predominant in the south-east. Sierra Leone is a predominantly Muslim country,[10][11][12] though with an influential Christian minority. Sierra Leone is regarded as one of the most religiously tolerant nations in the world. Muslims and Christians collaborate and interact with each other peacefully. Religious violence is very rare in the country.
Sierra Leone has relied on mining, especially diamonds, for its economic base. It is also among the largest producers of titanium and bauxite, a major producer of gold, and has one of the world's largest deposits of rutile. Sierra Leone is home to the third-largest natural harbour in the world. Despite exploitation of this natural wealth, 70% of its people live in poverty.[13]
Sierra Leone became independent in 1961. Government corruption and mismanagement of the country's natural resources contributed to the Sierra Leone Civil War (1991 to 2002), which over more than a decade devastated the country. It left more than 50,000 people dead, much of the country's infrastructure destroyed, and over two million people displaced as refugees in neighbouring countries.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)Make sure the airline has your contact phone number.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Well done.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Africa on our flight. And I felt bad that I would be concerned by having African citizens on the flight. It worried me because the fact that I would notice/care about folks from Sierra Leone on my flight made me unhappy.... Has the TV coverage created me panic? Or is my concern grounded in fact?
Louisiana1976
(3,962 posts)Lefta Dissenter
(6,622 posts)and I totally understand your concern. The facts indicate that you are at virtually no risk as a result of that flight, but hell, fear isn't that rational. Once you're three weeks out from the flight, symptom free, you'll be able to rest easy.
840high
(17,196 posts)meant for you.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)You are right.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Just calm down, okay? Some people are just feeling a little panicky right now.....no need to jump to wild conclusions, is all I'm saying.
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)you think she knows shit about virology, etc? she does.
uppityperson
(115,677 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Even more reason to be ashamed of making such unfounded and broad generalizations based on race and nationality.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)The animals need you.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)disrupters and obvious RW trolls. If you know what I mean.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)I am trying to think of some rational reason why you would say something like this.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Hutzpa
(11,461 posts)or maybe ostracize a class of people.
Number23
(24,544 posts)this even further makes it even worse.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)Turborama
(22,109 posts)...the passengers on your plane were originally flying from Africa?
Seems like a rather odd route to take, Sierra Leone > UK > USA.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Turborama
(22,109 posts)I'm still interested to know how the OP found out the people on the plane were from Sierra Leone and were flying to the US from there via London.
TheVisitor
(173 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)And unless you shared a drink with them, got bled on, or otherwise came into contact with their bodily fluids, you don't really have much to worry about.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)And any time someone walks thru the plane to the bathroom they touch the backs of seats, the touch the handles, they touch stuff in the bathroom. Does the sweat (or stuff on their hands after they wipe their noses) contain the virus? How long does it live on these surfaces? Is the virus in the droplets they spray out when sneezing? I do not know....
snooper2
(30,151 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)brooklynite
(94,571 posts)Third world travelers will frequently pack large amount of luggage to bring things to family members.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Please read this:
http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Take what you want from it but it is a valid point from the poster's perspective.
thanks
locks
(2,012 posts)The American citizen who was working in the government of Liberia knew first-hand how bad the health system is in Liberia. When his sister died of ebola he tried to find a way to go anywhere he knew would have better health care, so he left the hospital and flew to Lagos, Nigeria. He went to a doctor and did not tell him he had ebola, then to a Lagos hospital. He died soon after he got there, soon afteras did the doctor and two nurses. One infected person traveled to Port Harcourt. If he had been in a village ebola might have been stopped there. TWENTY ONE MILLION people live in Lagos, FOUR MILLION in Port Harcourt. Thankfully, Nigeria has a public health system better than Liberia; the CDC and USAID helped them to set it up. CDC sent a team to Lagos and Port Harcourt to work out protocols and screening at airports, and seaports. The contact workers had to locate more than 3000 people to monitor. In two weeks they kept the virus from spreading, large numbers of people did not try to leave the country and only eight people died.
Reading what his wife tried to tell people was heartbreaking. "He was so afraid because he knew his country's health system couldn't save him." Liberia was just coming out of a terrible war, trying to build back their public health system with one doctor and a few healthcare workers for FOUR million people, and ebola has overwhelmed and collapsed what they had. Now people are dying from all the diseases other than ebola there for lack of health care. Do we honestly know what we would do? And who can we blame?
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Is there a compelling reason to allow folks fron Sierra Leone in the country right now?
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...that just leave me shaking my head.
This thread, contrasted with the "how did that nice, civilized NBC cameraman possibly get Ebola" threads, makes me want to change my password to this place...and promptly forget it.
JI7
(89,249 posts)lunasun
(21,646 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)you knew it. Thanks.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)uppityperson
(115,677 posts)NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Now we're all doomed
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)Back in the early 90's.....