Days later, officials preparing to clean inside the apartment where Ebola relatives are confined.

[pnwmom]

Last edited Thu Oct 2, 2014, 05:52 PM - Edit history (3)

The relatives have been put under strict quarantine, with a guard at the door, since there were multiple violations of a request for them to stay inside.

Why wasn't this apartment secured and cleaned immediately upon Duncan's diagnosis?

When were Duncan's belongings bagged up? How long did family members have to live surrounded by his contaminated things?

EDIT TO ADD: Duncan's relatives had to do the bagging themselves, obviously without any safety gear. Unbelievable.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/nation_world/20141002_ap_d611ba9369d7407587aaee873fc25778.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - Texas health officials have ordered four close family members of the Ebola patient in Dallas to stay in their home, and they've posted law enforcement outside to be sure.

SNIP

Texas officials are delivering groceries to the home and are preparing to have it professionally cleaned.

Dallas County Judge Clay Jenkins said the Ebola patient's belongings and clothes and household trash, possibly including his sheets, are bagged inside the house so the family members cannot come into contact with them until they are removed.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ebola-patients-family-ordered-stay-inside-leave/story?id=25912405

The family of the Texas Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan have been ordered to stay in their home after violating official's initial request not to leave.

"There were violations of the request to not leave their premises," Dallas judge Clay Jenkins said of the breach that prompted the Texas Department of State Health Services to order the quarantine.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/03/us/dallas-ebola-case-thomas-duncan-contacts.html?_r=0

But even as the orders were being issued, there were concerns about the conditions in the home where they were being ordered to stay.

The woman who was hosting Mr. Duncan told CNN that she had been with him the first time he sought treatment at the hospital and that she had twice told workers there he had been in Liberia. Still they sent him back with only some antibiotics to the apartment, where the woman was staying with one of her children and two nephews.

Over the next two days, Mr. Duncan began sweating profusely and had diarrhea. His sweaty sheets were still on the bed on Thursday morning, the woman said. She put the towels he used in a bag but said she did not know what to do with them.

The woman, whom CNN did not identify by name, said she had no symptoms of the disease.

[morningfog]

1. I read an article that as of today or perhaps yesterday, the sheets on the bed were Duncan sweated

profusely were still on the bed!

That is just unfathomable. I can understand them needing to be closely monitored, but to keep them trapped where Duncan was obviously very sick is unconscionable. I don't see how the family will come out without at least a couple of them infected.

[Louisiana1976]

3. Iwouldn't be surprised if any of them were infected.

[FSogol]

5. How long does that virus live outside the human body?

As long as no one comes in contact with the waste perhaps it is not a major problem.
Remember, it is not airborne. Maybe leaving the sheets was the safest move.

[tammywammy]

10. I heard a dr on the radio today talk

The example was if there was blood on a table. He said as long as the blood is wet the virus would be alive. But once it dried the virus would die.

[FSogol]

12. I suspected that. Thanks.

Surfaces like the hand rest on a plane or stair railing wouldn't be contagious long, but sheets might be. Best not to disturb them until they can be taken care of professionally.

[kestrel91316]

42. CDC says Ebola virus can survive up to 2-5 days in fluid or dried secretions.

[SidDithers]

11. Maybe handling sheets with live virus is more dangerous...

than letting the sheets dry, and disposing of dead virus.



Sid

[FSogol]

13. Sure, but how does that further FUD?

[morningfog]

21. I think that is true. But leaving someone exposed

to that until it becomes safe does not seem logical.

[kestrel91316]

43. Nobody is being forced to have contact with those sheets. If they lay on them, they are just stupid.

They need to stay put so as to minimize tracking their filthy, virus-laden shoes everywhere.

I have no sympathy for people who promise to stay isolated and then immediately break that promise. Repeatedly. I think they should be deported at the end of 21 days.

[uppityperson]

46. you have shown such compassion during this event, it amazes me. eom

[kestrel91316]

56. Zero compassion for people who act with criminal irresponsibility.

I'll save my compassion for THEIR victims.

In public health emergencies, you can't be coddling idiots. They'll kill a lot of people before they're done. I think Typhoid Mary got treated just the way she should have.

[uppityperson]

58. You mean these victims, forced to stay there with their "filthy, virus-laden shoes"? Compassion for

them you mean? Odd how you show compassion for these victims by insulting them.

[pnwmom]

53. They are being forced to remain in an apartment full of live Ebola virus.

The haz-mat team should have been called in the first day to clean up the environment. Instead, they didn't even clean the ambulance for two days.

[kestrel91316]

57. They have already been exposed. As long as they dont lay on those dirty sheets or use those dirty

towels they are at ever-decreasing risk from the environment.

Though I do think Texas should have whisked them off to an isolation lockdown at the hospital or jail once they tried to split.

[pnwmom]

59. The degree of exposure matters, too. So continuing exposure increases the risk.

And how can the residents have been left to do the clean up themselves?

The hospital has devoted a whole ward to isolating Duncan. They could have put the family in another section of the ward (since the CDC says it's enough to put these patients in private rooms.)

Putting them in jail could lead to a public health disaster. Think about it. What if a family member suddenly became sick while in jail?

[morningfog]

60. WTF? You're going off the deep end.

What else did Duncan leave in the house? What other soiled sheets? Vomit and feces? A house quarantine in a house of someone who was violently I'll is inhumane.

Their shoes are the least if our concern.

[kestrel91316]

62. I'm very angry. My own life was once endangered by people who failed to follow

public health recommendations regarding a deadly disease (along with 21 other people's lives). I have NO patience for people who lie, interfere, disobey, and otherwise show a complete lack of concern for other people's lives.

They are recklessly endangering others.

[morningfog]

75. No ones life was put in danger by them leaving

the house when not symptomatic. Their lives however were in danger being forced to stay in a house with soiled sheets.

Unless they left the house throwing the soiled sheets and buckets of vomit at people, no ones life was put in danger.

Do you even know that they aren't citizens?

[kestrel91316]

78. They could at any time develop symptoms and become a danger to the

public. What makes you think that you are better qualified to make these calls than public health?

I don't know that they aren't citizens. IF THEY ARE NOT, they should be deported for showing callous disregard for other people's safety ad lives. If they are, well, citizenship can be revoked, so they need to stop with the criminal negligence thing.

I'm not being unreasonable. All I expect is that people treat others with the same respect and consideration they want shown to them. It starts, in this case, with NOT promising to stay isolated and then repeatedly breaking that promise.

[Sparhawk60]

91. Agree

They acted very self centered and what should be a very isolated case now has the potential to get bigger.

[pnwmom]

52. They should have had a haz-mat team in there to remove the sheets and clean up the apartment.

Instead, they let one of the women do the bagging herself, and are now making the family sit in the apartment -- with the bags still not disposed of, and the apartment still not properly cleaned.

They know how to do this kind of clean-up. They did it in the airplanes used to transport the other victims. They just haven't bothered in this case.

[Avalux]

18. Here you go:

EBOLA SURVIVAL OUTSIDE HOST:

Filoviruses have been reported capable to survive for weeks in blood and can also survive on contaminated surfaces, particularly at low temperatures (4°C). One study could not recover any Ebolavirus from experimentally contaminated surfaces (plastic, metal or glass) at room temperature. In another study, Ebolavirus dried onto glass, polymeric silicone rubber, or painted aluminum alloy is able to survive in the dark for several hours under ambient conditions (between 20 and 25C and 30–40% relative humidity) (amount of virus reduced to 37% after 15.4 hours), but is less stable than some other viral hemorrhagic fevers (Lassa). When dried in tissue culture media onto glass and stored at 4 °C, Zaire ebolavirus survived for over 50 days. This information is based on experimental findings only and not based on observations in nature. This information is intended to be used to support local risk assessments in a laboratory setting.

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php

[seabeyond]

24. that sounds to me like, anything in the apartment, once dried, died.

there are some perfect conditions that allow to live longer, but those conditions would not be the apartment.

[Duer 157099]

71. The fridge keeps things at 4 degrees

So, if he handled anything that was subsequently returned to the fridge...

[kestrel91316]

44. Proteinaceous debris is very good at helping microbes to survive hostile environments when dry.

[Aerows]

61. So dirty dishes he ate out of

would probably remain viral, or if he missed while using the toilet and got some on the toilet seat it would probably be infectious?

[kestrel91316]

64. I wouldn't touch them for a week other than to soak with bleach. Bleach will kill it PDQ.

But yeah, filthy filthy filthy.

[Aerows]

68. God help us I hope the family

is composed of good housekeepers, but judging by the fact that the bed sheets stayed on ... I'm not overly optimistic.

I wouldn't be waiting for somebody to disinfect the place, I'd have bleach and cleaning products deployed the second an ambulance was called.

[kestrel91316]

69. Yeah. I'm not sure they would have even had the sense to stay off that bed.

These are people who immediately and repeatedly did the opposite of what the public health team told them to do.

[AverageJoe90]

2. Better a little late than never at all, I suppose.

Still not quite adequate, though. These people really should have been quarantined right away, and swiftly detained the moment they tried to break out.

[shraby]

4. I see this is due to the orders of the Texas Health Officials. What's the matter with Texas anyway?

First their hospital staff drops the ball and sends an Ebola carrier back out on the street, now their Health officials didn't bother to have the apartment cleaned, but quarantined people in it anyway.
People living in Dallas should be raising hell about the whole screw up.

[misterhighwasted]

6. Some are trying to raise hell but they are given the standard.."Not to worry, its not airborn."

So full of their own non-stinking shit.
I do not get it.

[Dont call me Shirley]

29. Same thing that's the matter with Kansas. Privatization of everything.

[ecstatic]

7. Unbelievable. Cruel and unfair. And perhaps racist?

Some of his family members may have dodged contamination up until the point when Duncan was diagnosed, but they might be infected now as a result of being forced to stay inside a highly contaminated home. This confirms my doubts about how things are being handled. I realize that defending "state of the art" healthcare system is a coping mechanism for some, and that's fine, but I prefer to stay grounded in reality.

[xocet]

39. Why do you hate our greatness? Everyone knows the US is by far the greatest country in the world...

and that that greatness trickles down by default to every aspect of American life. In this particular instance, Ebola will easily be contained by the extraordinarily competent, highly skilled paragons of managerial excellence and personal freedom that festoon the highest and lowest echelons of that bastion of the exultation of individual merit that is otherwise known as Texas.

Seriously, why do you hate our freedoms?

[misterhighwasted]

8. Anderson Cooper did an interview with Duncan's girlfriend. It airs tonight.

She said she's been sleeping on the sofa & avoiding his bed since the sheets were still on it.
Said the CDC people were suppose to be there today to clean but hadn't shown up as of this morning.

[cwydro]

15. I saw that too.

Really was mishandled.

[etherealtruth]

9. WTF?

That's all I have .... i can't fathom this level of incompetence (from the very beginning)

[KittyWampus]

20. I didn't even have a "wtf". My mouth just dropped open.

[nashville_brook]

14. wondering if anyone has info RE surfaces/universal precautions?

something that's bothering me is that this isn't supposed to spread via air b/c it takes a larger amount of body fluid -- a "droplet" -- to be contagious.

but then are surfaces an issue?

sure it's not likely for someone to vomit or bleed in your mouth. but, having contact with the medical waste or contagious surfaces seems like it would still be a problem. like, if Mr. Duncan was vomiting in the ER, then any of the materials used to clean up the mess would be biohazards, for sure.

Likewise, if you're on an airplane you're not in danger if the person coughs and you're sitting two rows up. But if you sit in the sick person's seat on the next flight, and contact a droplet (where they covered their mouth with their hand and then put it on the arm rest) -- would that be an issue?

not trying to look for ways to panic, rather I'm imagining that it's likely our health and safety depend on minimum wage workers like janitors and housekeeping -- and that while we're getting healthcare workers up to speed it's also probably important to be training these professionals.

But i have little faith that that is happening.

[Avalux]

19. Here's some reallly good info.

It's a pathogen safety datasheet from Canada, very comprehensive and concise.

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/lab-bio/res/psds-ftss/ebola-eng.php

[TheVisitor]

22. Hmmm?

Ebolavirus has been isolated from semen 61 to 82 days after the onset of illness, and transmission through semen has occurred 7 weeks after clinical recovery

wait, what? so it can be transferred 7 weeks after recovery through sex? or, am i reading this wrong?

[Avalux]

23. You are not reading it wrong.

Even if a person recovers from Ebola, the virus is still present in their semen, and can be transmitted through unprotected sex.

[TheVisitor]

25. wow...

that could be a huge issue after initial containment... so what about women, is their vaginal fluid contagious also?

so technically kent brantly is still contagious by his semen?

[Avalux]

28. They haven't done studies on vaginal fluid, but it would contain virus.

And I would say that Kent Brantly could possibly transmit the virus to his wife via unprotected sex.

[elehhhhna]

35. the news covered this when brantley was released.

[kestrel91316]

45. Recovered victims of Ebola become sexual transmitters of it for up to 3 months. Yep. Fun, huh?

[Aerows]

63. My fun meter

is going off of the charts.

[kestrel91316]

66. Indeed. And the people saying it's not even as dangerous as the flu make me want to

[nashville_brook]

65. yes -- very helpful, thank you!

[seabeyond]

16. the public, us, are just learning. for ex: i read in this thread, once blood dries kills the ebola.

sheets sweat stained, then once dry is it safer to handle?

i personally do not know enough about the disease at this point, to point the finger as imcompetent or not. i think as we continue to learn about the disease, and different situations with the disease, people, we will have a better idea.

the four people harboring the man at their house, were aware from the get go, and hopefully, took the precautions. limiting him to one area. maybe close door to it, until cleaned. whatever. what i do know, is we do not know all we need to for judgment.

[kestrel91316]

47. Pure unadulterated virus dried on glass dies almost immediately. Bodily fluids contaminated with

ebola remain infectious even when dried, for 2 and possibly up to 5 days. Per CDC.

Proteinaceous debris, as we call it, is a great protective layer. When we clean cages in veterinary hospitals, first we clean and clean to get all the dirt off. And then we clean one more time to disinfect. We use Roccal-D in my place. Bleach is too corrosive for general use but I will use it for certain tough pathogens like fungal spores or feline coronavirus.

[LostInAnomie]

17. Good. Take every precaution possible.

If these people were going to be exposed, they would have already have been exposed. Keep them shut up tigjt in there and by all means do not let them out. That is the point of a quarantine.

Plus, if the news I have been reading is correct, they probably knew Duncan had been exposed and facilitated his coming to the US. If that's true, we shouldn't do them any special favors.

[Mariana]

70. One of "them" is 13 years old.

Please do explain why you think this child is responsible for this situation.

[LostInAnomie]

72. Is the virus this kid many be infected with any less deadly...

... because they're 13? Will the people they could potentially infect bleed from their eyes, vomit up blood, or shit out their intestines less because they caught it from a 13yo?

It sucks members of their family probably knowingly put them in this situatuion, but you can't unring a bell. They should be quarantined until we know they aren't infected.

[Mariana]

73. Absolutely they should be quarantined.

They should not be shut up with contaminated materials - even if YOU think they deserve it.

[LostInAnomie]

74. Right... because they'll catch double Ebola if they stay.

If they were going to be infected they probably already are. Moving them and sending people in there to clean the area only puts more people at risk.

[Purveyor]

26. We're from the goverment and we are here to help...my ass! eom

[xocet]

41. Rather: We're here from the government of Texas and....Wait, why are we here again? n/t

[840high]

77. My feelings exactly.

[misterhighwasted]

27. Bet it would be cleaned up if they lived in a wealthy neighborhood.

A city the size of Dallas & there's no effing hazmat?

[ColesCountyDem]

30. There are private companies who are well-trained in bio-hazard clean up, but the don't come cheaply.

Texas being Texas, someone is probably trying to figure out how to hire some homeless street person for $5/hr. cash to do the work.

[elehhhhna]

36. they also cut corners and haven't trained their people.

[FloriTexan]

33. This hospital is in a wealthy part of Dallas, very wealthy...

But its also very crowded and lots of mixed use development apartments and rail service runs through there.

[grasswire]

37. sanje gupta (CNN) said there were no private companies willing to do..

....this clean up. Authorities were having trouble finding a crew.

[riverwalker]

31. unbelievable

I watched the press conference, they said they had trouble finding a contractor to clean his belongings. In full HazMat suits probably.
Yet, I bet the hospital staff, before his diagnosis was confirmed, like the housekeepers cleaned up the vomit, blood and urine, risking their lives for $8.00 an hour.
We can't even contain E.Coli when it runs rampant in hospitals and nursing homes. We are trusting ignorant corporate hospital CEO's, who only care for the bottom line, to contain this.

[FloriTexan]

32. The latest reporting from this afternoon...

3 more students from another school in Richardson Texas (different ISD) were pulled out of class today. No symptoms.

No one has cleaned the apartment yet because no cleaning companies want to do it out of contamination concerns.

All this from one guy who, whatever his reasoning, knew he was exposed to ebola, chose to travel, chose not to be treated immediately upon arrival, lied on the forms to get him on the plane, then said they told the hospital he was from Liberia but nothing else, apparently.

It should also be noted that Governor Perry did not expand medicare in Texas and did not join Obamacare. I've had a few procedures at this very Presby Hospital and it is a good hospital. I'm just glad he did not go to Parkland where many indigent and non-insureds go.

The son of this carrier said he had to call the CDC, but if that's true, why did the first responders not know it was possible ebola. I have so many questions now.

This is the biggest clusterfuck I've seen in a long time. This is how it will spread and it will happen again. Complacency at its worst.

[pnwmom]

34. The relative only called the CDC after the hospital sent him home on the 25th.

(First reports were the 26th, but now they're saying the 25th.)

But if by "first responders," you're referring to the ambulance crew on the 28th, that's a very good question. Did anyone tell them to prepare for a likely Ebola patient?

[kestrel91316]

49. That nephew, Josephus Weeks, is a HERO. He is the only one in this picture that knew WTF was going

on and he got very worried at the mishandling and called CDC to scream bloody murder. That's what got the folks in Dallas to wake up and handle him properly.

[JimDandy]

38. The call to the CDC was made during the second request for

emergency help. The report I saw said it was Mr. Duncan's nephew that called the CDC.

Interesting that he lied about Ebola exposure on a travel form.

[kestrel91316]

48. Federal guidelines call for immediate isolation of all with direct contact with the victim.

My guess is, Texas public health said "nah, you can go to school, you look fine", and then CDC came in and said "HOLY CRAP, get those kids into isolation NOW!!!" And then had a serious talk with the morons at Texas public health.

[LostInAnomie]

51. It sounds more and more like he and his family...

... knew he had been exposed to Ebola and were completely indifferent to the lives that he put at risk. It aslo sounds like he was trying to avoid criminal liability when he went to the hospital the first time or else he would have said something.

[WinkyDink]

40. "multiple violations of a request for them to stay inside." OK. And "sweaty"? Try also blood-/

vomit-/feces-/urine-soaked.

[kestrel91316]

50. I vote for deportation of those folks at the end of 21 days.

"You don't want to obey the health department, and in doing so jeopardize the lives of everyone in the US potentially? Get out of the US right now."

[Aerows]

67. It's not PC

but amen to that!

[uppityperson]

81. They should have been moved to a clean quarantine, not detained in a contaminated house.

[janlyn]

54. I could be wrong,

but it seems to me that even though our authorities claim that the US is fully prepared if the virus makes it to the states, it doesn't seem that is the case.
I was worried about how well all the different agencies would communicate in a case like this, and it seems I might have had a reason to worry.
If they are confused over something as simple as who will handle the bio waste, we might need to rethink how prepared we really are!

[Lars39]

55. CDC needs their own clean up crews.....it should never be left up to the individual states.

[valerief]

76. I know why. Texas. nt

[Bosonic]

79. Sanitizing crew turned away at Ebola patient's residence in Dallas

Sanitizing crew turned away at Ebola patient's residence in Dallas

(CNN) -- Four days after a man was diagnosed with Ebola in Dallas, the apartment where he stayed has not been sanitized, a cleaning crew contracted to do the job said. Four other people are still living there.

Thomas Eric Duncan became the first person diagnosed with Ebola on American soil when he was hospitalized this week after arrival from Liberia.

His partner and her family are in isolation at the apartment, which still has the sheets and towels used by Duncan.

...

As concerns grow over how many people he may have exposed to the deadly virus, a plan to sanitize the apartment was delayed late Thursday.

Brad Smith of the Cleaning Guys, the company hired to sanitize the apartment, said they do not have the proper permits to transport hazardous waste on Texas highways.

Smith said authorities sent them away late Thursday before they entered the apartment and told them to come back with proper permits. It's unclear how long that will take.

"The permit is being processed through DOT (Department of Transportation) because it is a special permit," Smith said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/03/health/ebola-us/index.html

[uppityperson]

80. It is good they will do it right, but, and a huge but, the rest pf the people quarantined there

need to be in a place that is not contaminated. WTF is the state doing, leaving them in there?

[pnwmom]

82. I strongly agree. I can't believe the state has trapped them inside that contaminated apartment.

It's inexcusable.

[uppityperson]

84. The best I hope for is they bagged up all the worst contaminated stuff, linens, etc

That would help a lot, but still, it is inexcusible, inhumane, probably in some way illegal to keep them in contaminated quarters. But hey, Rick Perry and all that crap.

[pnwmom]

86. You know who did whatever bagging was done?

The woman relative. Of course.

[uppityperson]

87. Or the young man who called the CDC. I am not assuming anything. nt

[pnwmom]

88. I'm not assuming this. The girlfriend said she was the one who bagged his things.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/ebola/11137110/Quarantined-girlfriend-of-US-Ebola-victim-says-sheets-are-still-on-bed.html

The girlfriend of America's first Ebola patient has been quarantined in their home with three other people where the sheets and towels he used have still not been removed.

The woman, who gave her name as Louise, spoke to CNN journalist Anderson Cooper by phone from inside the apartment she shared with Thomas Eric Duncan.

She told Mr Cooper the sheets that Mr Duncan had slept on were still on the bed they had shared.
She was avoiding the bed and sleeping in the living room instead. She told CNN: "I don't know what to do."

SNIP

She had placed towels used by Mr Duncan in a plastic bag but they were still in the apartment. She had also used bleach to clean the apartment.

[uppityperson]

89. Ah, thank you. I hadn't read they bagged stuff, am glad to hear that.

[pnwmom]

90. But not his dirty sheets. They're still on the bed. Maybe she was afraid to handle them.

[pnwmom]

83. One more stupid snafu that shouldn't have happened.

But they'll keep telling us how prepared they are.

Except for when they aren't.

[uppityperson]

85. I suspect this is a learning experience for many communities, hospitals, etc.