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G_j

(40,367 posts)
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:04 PM Oct 2014

Is Bernie Sanders really all there is? Lessons from Pat Robertson’s insurgency

Last edited Sat Oct 4, 2014, 05:19 PM - Edit history (2)

To start, I don't believe in using the word "unelectable" barring some legal issue in play. It is too often attached to people in hopes it will become a self fullfilling prophecy. Personally, I refuse to call any good candidate unelectable. Describe the obstacles they must overcome.

http://www.salon.com/2014/10/04/is_bernie_sanders_really_all_there_is_lessons_from_pat_robertsons_insurgency/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


Pat Robertson in 1988, Bernie Sanders in 2014 (Credit: AP/Peter Southwick/Reuters/Jonathan Ernst)

SATURDAY, OCT 4, 2014 08:00 AM EDT

Is Bernie Sanders really all there is? Lessons from Pat Robertson’s insurgency

If Warren sits 2016 out, an unelectable longshot may be liberals' only hope. Let's take a lesson from Pat Robertson

PAUL ROSENBERG

With the 2016 elections still two years away, and Elizabeth Warren saying that she will not run, the most likely challenger on the left appears to Bernie Sanders, the independent Vermont socialist, re-elected with 71 percent of the vote in 2012, who caucuses with the Democrats. Forget the White House, some critics would say: Sanders doesn’t even have a shot at giving Hillary a strong primary challenge, should he choose to run as a Democrat, so why bother?

The answer is easy: 1988. That year, not one, but two long-shot outsider primary campaigns had profound impacts on American politics: Jesse Jackson on the left, and Pat Robertson on the right. As Sanders actively tests the waters, the question of just how to make the most of the opportunity is both timely and important.

“It’s unlikely that Senator Sanders would win the presidential election in 2016,” said Darcy Burner, former executive director of the House Progressive Caucus. But, she added quickly, “A Bernie Sanders run could make a big difference in terms of changing the national conversation if it’s done right, and if the activists on the left focus on it.

“One of the key tactics the political status quo uses to maintain the existing balance of power is to distract people with false binary choices about key problems facing the country. For instance: should we cut Social Security now or later?” Burner said. “People assume that because those are the choices they hear, then those must be the only choices. This tactic is used across every policy area.”

For years, along these same lines, the Progressive Caucus has developed a People’s Budget, solidly aligned with supermajority views of the American people — protecting Social Security and Medicare, for example — which the donor-class-dominated political media routinely ignores, even though those budgets have also done a better job of bringing budget deficits down than the various more prominent proposals. Sanders has been the one consistent voice in the Senate supporting the People’s Budget — a strong indication of what Burner sees in his potential candidacy.

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Is Bernie Sanders really all there is? Lessons from Pat Robertson’s insurgency (Original Post) G_j Oct 2014 OP
Bernie will have a difficult time getting the socialist title away from his name. Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #1
Because he's a socialist? Octafish Oct 2014 #2
Facts are facts, this is how he describes himself, it is not a winning path. Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #3
It has greater acceptablity today than at any time since Socialists could get elected in parts... Chan790 Oct 2014 #10
Bernie has taken this label, there are not enough Socialist to win elections, Many do not agree Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #11
I always thought socialism was pro-worker, G_j Oct 2014 #12
Let me say it like this, I am proworker, I am not socialist. Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #13
though, I could pretty much guarentee his policies G_j Oct 2014 #16
Sure I am in the 99%, in fact in , the lower end of the 90% but don't feel advanced education Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #19
Opposed to public schools? H2O Man Oct 2014 #24
I did not say anything about public schools of which is paid by the property taxes in my state. Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #36
Public schools, like H2O Man Oct 2014 #38
Allow me to state this again, I pay property taxes for schools K-12, I pay road taxes in the price Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #40
Fifty years ago people could afford to pay for their own college. The system has made that liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #43
We have the same problem with paying for others tutions and cost of education. The rest of Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #45
Socialism is not anti-work. Anyone who thinks they are is misinformed. liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #42
Definition Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #46
Do you have a link to support "greater acceptability"? Socialism still has negative connotations. Tarheel_Dem Oct 2014 #18
I'd have to look for it... Chan790 Oct 2014 #26
The word is anathema to some, but Bernie talks straight and what he says is not only the thought JDPriestly Oct 2014 #14
After reading the OP Salon article... ReRe Oct 2014 #22
Me too. JDPriestly Oct 2014 #23
Yes! JDPriestly Oct 2014 #35
He describes himself as a DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST. FlatStanley Oct 2014 #17
If you have to explain that, you're already at a huge disadvantage. It's like the ACA.... Tarheel_Dem Oct 2014 #25
Democrats are always called socialists, communists, fascists. FlatStanley Oct 2014 #31
Au contraire MannyGoldstein Oct 2014 #4
Read the article again: It's not about winning, it's about changing the dialogue! LongTomH Oct 2014 #6
Robertson actually won Spirochete Oct 2014 #9
Because it clearly has hurt him in the past hootinholler Oct 2014 #7
He's a Democratic Socialist. NOT.THE.SAME.THING. FlatStanley Oct 2014 #15
Especially for the closed minded conservatives. They look no farther than labels. nm rhett o rick Oct 2014 #21
I'd rather embrace it LWolf Oct 2014 #30
Finally, a Democrat speaks on DemocraticUnderground. FlatStanley Oct 2014 #32
I don't care. neverforget Oct 2014 #44
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Oct 2014 #5
The writing is way below what I expect from Salon hootinholler Oct 2014 #8
There is yet another reason for encouraging challengers to Hillary. JDPriestly Oct 2014 #20
I approve of Bernie no matter which fucking label comes after his name. JEB Oct 2014 #27
+1 flying rabbit Oct 2014 #34
me too. liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #41
And this is one of the reasons we continue with the status quo Marrah_G Oct 2014 #28
He may have a point, the 1988 election featured two of the blandest, most charisma challenged tularetom Oct 2014 #29
I heard my 19 yr old daughter bring his name up the other day and I had never even mentioned liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #33
Bernie Sanders giving pro-Clinton Democrat ‘nightmares’ G_j Oct 2014 #37
K&R liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #39

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
1. Bernie will have a difficult time getting the socialist title away from his name.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:49 PM
Oct 2014

It will be a campaign killer for him.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
2. Because he's a socialist?
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:54 PM
Oct 2014

A bit of socialism may be what America and the planet need, seeing how the fascism has benefited the ownership class to the point they own most about everything and the money.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
10. It has greater acceptablity today than at any time since Socialists could get elected in parts...
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 05:15 PM
Oct 2014

of the US. I really do not think it's the impediment that some people want to make it out to be...I think I'd rather be accused of being a socialist like Sanders than in the pocket of Wall St. like Clinton.

Can he win? Probably not, but he can work to make Socialist not a dirty word. He can change the dialogue. He can make Clinton stake out positions that are not in line with big business and the DLC in order to secure the nomination. He can do a lot of good by running.

He can also make it a lot easier for other Socialists to win elsewhere and in the future.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
11. Bernie has taken this label, there are not enough Socialist to win elections, Many do not agree
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 05:53 PM
Oct 2014

with their positions. I read lots of post complaining about others having money and read others complaining about the takers. My position is somewhere in the middle, I have worked hard in my life and still work, it is good for the soul.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
19. Sure I am in the 99%, in fact in , the lower end of the 90% but don't feel advanced education
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 06:24 PM
Oct 2014

should be free, there are student loan programs available and have been for years. If I want a home I go out and purchase the home of my choice and ability but I still have to pay for the home so off to work I go.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
36. I did not say anything about public schools of which is paid by the property taxes in my state.
Sun Oct 5, 2014, 12:33 PM
Oct 2014

Advanced education such as college, etc is subsidized in many needs input of funds for the ones receiving the service. Normally it is an education which in turn can provide employment in the future. As I said if I purchase a home with a loan then I can choose to live in the home while I am paying, should I be able to live in the home for free?

H2O Man

(73,558 posts)
38. Public schools, like
Sun Oct 5, 2014, 04:28 PM
Oct 2014

public streets and highways, are socialism in action. I was curious, since you stated that you aren't a socialist (and seem to have some negative beliefs about socialism) if you opposed the two most obvious examples in our society.

Your statement on housing is, at very best, a weak attempt at a red herring. As I'm not prone to being easily distracted, my response to that bit of nonsense is to say that I'm always willing to have a serious discussion.

That said, I'm curious if you, based upon principle, have avoided public schools and public streets and highways?

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
40. Allow me to state this again, I pay property taxes for schools K-12, I pay road taxes in the price
Sun Oct 5, 2014, 10:49 PM
Oct 2014

of gas, I do not think it is not my responsibility to pay for someone else's college, etc education. There are loan programs available to those who qualify, a loan which is not my responsibility to pay for others. Your statement attempting to label the social programs on public schools and roads and do not accept my example of purchasing a home and paying the loan myself is not nonsense, I have stated my point several times. I will not change my opinion on paying for college, etc education of others. BTW, I also pay property taxes towards the colleges and universities in my area, the rest needs to be absorbed by those receiving a possible degree.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
43. Fifty years ago people could afford to pay for their own college. The system has made that
Sun Oct 5, 2014, 11:43 PM
Oct 2014

impossible. Wages are suppressed, cost of living and cost of education are through the roof. People would be happy to pay for their own college education if the system allowed for it.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
45. We have the same problem with paying for others tutions and cost of education. The rest of
Mon Oct 6, 2014, 12:04 AM
Oct 2014

us are not making much money, have a high cost of living, our wages are suppressed also.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
46. Definition
Mon Oct 6, 2014, 12:13 AM
Oct 2014

1.Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
26. I'd have to look for it...
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 09:29 PM
Oct 2014

but it was a survey within the last year that said for the first time post-New-Deal the word "Socialist" had a higher approve than disapprove rate (with both trailing neutral)...and scored better than perceptions of "Tea Party"

It definitely has negative connotations, but so do "liberal" and "conservative". We're living in a polarized political era.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
14. The word is anathema to some, but Bernie talks straight and what he says is not only the thought
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 06:07 PM
Oct 2014

of most Americans but makes good common sense.

The Kochs were/are libertarians. What their candidates say is far from the thought of most Americans and makes no sense at all.

Let Bernie Sanders talk. Let him run. The point in the OP Is that we need to enrich the political conversation in the US with alternative ideas. We are pretty much at the end of the conservative era. The conservatives had run out of new ideas already in 2008. And they haven't come up with any new solutions to our problems in the interim.

Let Bernie Sanders be heard. Let the best man or woman win.

Let's don't assume the primaries are over before they have begun.

ReRe

(10,597 posts)
22. After reading the OP Salon article...
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 07:38 PM
Oct 2014

... I hope, if Bernie is going to run (as a Democrat) that he introduces a book which explains his vision for America on the same day he throws his towel in the ring. I have high hopes.

 

FlatStanley

(327 posts)
17. He describes himself as a DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 06:10 PM
Oct 2014

You know what. I'm really tired of the diaper soilers here. Learn the facts and then spread the damn truth.

EVERY DEMOCRAT is painted as a god damned socialist.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,234 posts)
25. If you have to explain that, you're already at a huge disadvantage. It's like the ACA....
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 09:21 PM
Oct 2014

people overwhelmingly approve of the various pieces of it, but call it "Obamacare", and approval drops 25%-30%. Sadly, in public opinion, if you're explaining, you're losing. If Bernie has to start out explaining that he's a "Democratic" Socialist, and expecting people to differentiate, he's of no use nationally.

 

FlatStanley

(327 posts)
31. Democrats are always called socialists, communists, fascists.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 10:22 PM
Oct 2014

Libruls. Who gives a rat's ass. Embrace every epithet they throw. Just please STOP COWERING IN THE CORNER.

I am so sick of it.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
6. Read the article again: It's not about winning, it's about changing the dialogue!
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 04:55 PM
Oct 2014

Neither Crazy Pat Robertson or Jesse Jackson had a snowball's chance in Hell of winning; but, they changed the whole debate in their respective parties.

Spirochete

(5,264 posts)
9. Robertson actually won
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 05:10 PM
Oct 2014

the primaries in this state, IIRC. Only state he got. Might just have been Democrats playing around, though.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
7. Because it clearly has hurt him in the past
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 05:08 PM
Oct 2014


The people who will be upset by the socialism cry and hubris wouldn't vote for Bernie anyway. The rest of us understand that Lennin and Stalin didn't really implement socialism.

hootinholler

(26,449 posts)
8. The writing is way below what I expect from Salon
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 05:10 PM
Oct 2014

But if you can get past it, and the negative waves, there are valid points made.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
20. There is yet another reason for encouraging challengers to Hillary.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 06:25 PM
Oct 2014

We do not know what will happen to Hillary in the next couple of years. Goes for the other possible candidates also. We do not know what scandals might emerge, what family or health issues, maybe even personal interests that might dissuade this or that candidate from running.

At this time it looks like Hillary will run, but that is not set in stone.

Hillary, Bernie and Elizabeth are all in their mid- to late 60s at the least. I've been there. You ng people can set a course and then have to change it. That problem is even more common among people in their 60s and 70s. So, let's let them all run and see who wins. A primary is a test not only of ideas but of personality and character. I think that we should see which of the potential contenders passes the test and gets the most votes.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
28. And this is one of the reasons we continue with the status quo
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 09:36 PM
Oct 2014

The party leaders choose who we are going to vote for. They simply will never support anyone too far left that might effect their ability to continue working for the corporations. They "let" us pick between a couple candidates they approve of and we fall for it every election.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
29. He may have a point, the 1988 election featured two of the blandest, most charisma challenged
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 09:45 PM
Oct 2014

candidates to ever be nominated for president by the major parties.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
33. I heard my 19 yr old daughter bring his name up the other day and I had never even mentioned
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 10:27 PM
Oct 2014

him to her before. The young people are talking about him on social media. He could become huge very quickly if the young people take to social media about him.

G_j

(40,367 posts)
37. Bernie Sanders giving pro-Clinton Democrat ‘nightmares’
Sun Oct 5, 2014, 03:48 PM
Oct 2014
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-giving-pro-clinton-democrat-nightmares?cid=sm_m_main_1_20141005_32895216

By Alex Seitz-Wald
Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders is pressing ahead with a potential White House bid, returning to Iowa and New Hampshire this week for more events in the early presidential states.

He’ll be in Davenport, Iowa, on Saturday for a meeting with local activists on the economy, before heading to Iowa City on Sunday to headline the Johnson County Democratic Party barbecue. That night, he keynotes a meeting of Iowa Citizen Action Network in Coralville.

On Friday, he heads to New Hampshire for a town hall meeting with students at the University of New Hampshire in Durham.

While most dismiss Sanders’ chances, even some supporting Hillary Clinton are concerned he could find unexpected success against the more establishment Democrat.

“I have nightmares that someone like a Bernie Saunders will catch fire and cause trouble for Hillary Clinton. People sometimes ignore who the most electable candidate is and which candidate is best prepared to lead the country in favor of the fun of being a contrarian in the moment,” said one pro-Clinton Democratic operative, who asked to remain anonymous to speak candidly.

Bill Gluba, the mayor of Davenport and a longtime Iowa Democratic activist who got onboard early with Barack Obama in 2008, has met with Sanders this year and said there’s “a real hunger” among the grassroots for a candidate willing to take on Wall Street and the 1%.

“He’s about the only one really clearly speaking to the real issues,” said Gluba, who has not yet committed to anyone.

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