South Carolina Prosecutors Say Stand Your Ground Doesn’t Apply To Victims Of Domestic Violence

[babylonsister]

South Carolina Prosecutors Say Stand Your Ground Doesn’t Apply To Victims Of Domestic Violence

by Nicole Flatow
Posted on October 14, 2014 at 2:56 pm


South Carolina is one of more than 20 states that has passed an expansive Stand Your Ground law authorizing individuals to use deadly force in self-defense. The law has been used to protect a man who killed an innocent bystander while pointing his gun at several teens he called “women thugs.” But prosecutors in Charleston are drawing the line at domestic violence.

In the cases of women who claim they feared for their lives when confronted with violent intimate abusers, prosecutors say the Stand Your Ground law shouldn’t apply.

“(The Legislature’s) intent … was to provide law-abiding citizens greater protections from external threats in the form of intruders and attackers,” prosecutor Culver Kidd told the Post and Courier. “We believe that applying the statute so that its reach into our homes and personal relationships is inconsistent with (its) wording and intent.”

Most recently, Kidd raised this argument in vigorously pursuing a murder case against Whitlee Jones, whose screams for help as her boyfriend pulled her down the street by her hair prompted a neighbor to call the cops during a 2012 altercation. When the officer arrived that night, the argument had already ended and Jones had fled the scene. While she was out, Jones decided to leave her boyfriend, Eric Lee, and went back to the house to pack up her things. She didn’t even know the police officer had been there earlier that night, her lawyer Mary Ford explained. She packed a knife to protect herself, and as she exited the house, she says Lee attacked her and she stabbed Lee once in defense. He died, although Jones says she did not intend to kill him.

snip//

The Post and Courier, which originally reported prosecutors’ position, has been doing a series on domestic violence over the past few months, in which it found that women are dying at a rate of one every 12 days from domestic abuse in South Carolina, a state “awash in guns, saddled with ineffective laws and lacking enough shelters for the battered … a state where the deck is stacked against women trapped in the cycle of abuse.” More than 70 percent of those who kill their spouse had “multiple prior arrests on those charges” and the majority spent just days in jail.

more...

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/10/14/3579407/south-carolina-prosecutors-say-stand-your-ground-doesnt-apply-to-victims-of-domestic-violence/

[The Magistrate]

1. Inconceivable, Ma'am

Literally: I cannot imagine what is going through the mind of a man, of an official, who is able to say and evidently believe this.

[babylonsister]

2. I hear you, my friend, and am appalled. Seems inhuman to me. nt

[csziggy]

4. They really don't consider women citizens

That's why they can claim that the law doesn't apply to them. If they thought they could get away with it, they would apply the same standards to minorities.

These are nasty, evil people.

[freshwest]

8. True. This has always been their view.

[littlemissmartypants]

68. Excellent point And it is true. We're not citizens.

Unfortunately, until the ERA or something else specifies under the law that, we ARE, we are less than. Less than, many things hinge on our citizen status. We need to get real about this and stop kidding ourselves.

I am ready to kick but* and take names with our so called public servants on this topic. Let's see some commitment and accountability. I want this is my lifetime. One hundred years is too long to be waiting.



Any takers?

Love, Peace and the Righteous Fight!

~ littlemissmartypants 🙅

[riqster]

27. Just so. Tenthers don't accept women's suffrage, much less equality.

Bastards. Antediluvian BASTARDS.

[Ken Burch]

41. It's pretty much "Stand Your Ground is for men only...and by 'men' I mean 'white men'".

The idea is that white men have the right to fear the world and defend themselves from attack, but nobody ELSE does(because, as these people see it, everyone else has it coming).

[FourScore]

67. Bingo! n/t

[kairos12]

42. Makes me wonder if these "officials" are worried about their spouse standing their ground on them.

[TDale313]

3. Truly sickening.

[Mnemosyne]

5. Absolutely disgusting. nt

[bullwinkle428]

6. Why don't they just come out and say it only applies to white males.

[jen63]

9. It sure would make them look less stupid wouldn't it?

[stevenleser]

15. You beat me to it. + infinity

[uponit7771]

26. +1

[Hassin Bin Sober]

39. +1

[BrotherIvan]

43. ^^This!^^

[burrowowl]

61. You nailed it!

[Skittles]

65. paranoid white males

[Solly Mack]

7. Damn.

K&R

Fucked up.

[aikoaiko]

10. Good thing prosecutors aren't the final authority on when SYG applies.

Court hearing should take care of this.

And I should note that this is why SYG laws were enacted -- to help protect real victims of unprovoked violence or threat of violence be spared prosecution from zealous prosecutors.

[FSogol]

11. No discussion of SYG should be complete w/o reminding everyone that Jeb Bush was a major

proponent of SYG laws. This should disqualify his eventual Presidential run.

[hifiguy]

32. Hell's bells his LAST NAME should serve as a

presumptive and irrefutable disqualifier.

[blkmusclmachine]

44. Didn't know that about ol' Jeb. But not surprised. No, not at all.

[justiceischeap]

12. So even if a woman isn't living with her abuser

and comes into her home illegally and threatens her, because there's a history of DV, Stand Your Ground, according to them, shouldn't apply?

What they're really implying is that it's okay for white people to shoot and kill black people.

[malthaussen]

13. Tell me again how there's no war on women.

This is appalling.

-- Mal

[theHandpuppet]

17. +1000

The longest war in human history is the one waged against women.

[etherealtruth]

28. Though I have questioned SYG as it appears to apply to one subset of folk "allowed" to SYG

This once again reaffirms the view that assaulting a "loved one" or family member "really isn't assault' ....

[stevenleser]

14. Wish I could say I was surprised. SYG is for white, straight, men to shoot "the other" where

"the other" is anyone other than a white, straight, man.

[hifiguy]

33. +1

And don't think it wasn't intended as such from the beginning.

[stevenleser]

38. Agreed. No accident AT ALL. nt

[heaven05]

16. not surprising

given the level(s) of fear a certain segment of the male population has toward the opposite gender and the call for equality. Not surprising at all.

[yardwork]

18. Disgusting. /nt

[Bad Thoughts]

19. Essentially: no castle, no doctrine. eom

[Lee-Lee]

20. By the letter of the law

She left a violent altercation, did not report it, armed herself and returned to the situation.

No, SYG doesn't apply and shouldn't. Had she stopped or shot him in the initial fight it would. She left and willfully returned to the situation after arming herself- that changes it all.

Inagine if it were a rapist. If you kill a rapist in your home as they assault you SYG rightfully applies. If you run to your neighbors house, see he is still in the house, grab a knife and go stab him because you want to get your cell phone from the home then it is murder.

What she shou have done is call the police and report what had happened, then get a police escort to retrieve her things. We did that with women and men almost every shift when I worked as a deputy.

Anyone claiming SYG should apply clearly doesn't understand the law. You can't leave a violent situation, arm yourself, then return to the situation and claim to be standing your ground.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

25. article implies SYG generally is inapplicable to women in abusive relationships.

In the cases of women who claim they feared for their lives when confronted with violent intimate abusers, prosecutors say the Stand Your Ground law shouldn’t apply.

“(The Legislature’s) intent … was to provide law-abiding citizens greater protections from external threats in the form of intruders and attackers,” prosecutor Culver Kidd told the Post and Courier. “We believe that applying the statute so that its reach into our homes and personal relationships is inconsistent with (its) wording and intent.”

Not just this case where she went back to the house to get her belongings.

[stevenleser]

37. Yep. +1 nt

[The Jungle 1]

50. Really?

She lived there. It was her home and castle.

So you are telling me I am not allowed to return to my home after any altercation?
She returned to HER castle.
If a new fight started and she was armed then so what good for her. It was a new fight and she defended herself in her home!!!!

Yes if a rapist is in my castle I want the right to go back and defend my castle and my family. Are you telling me a husband couldn't arm himself and go back and defend his wife or his property?
No sir, if you agree with the castle doctrine then you must agree with EVERYONE'S right to defend their home and property.

I am no lawyer but your argument is lame.

[redruddyred]

51. you may have a point, were it true that the cops actually gave a shit

which they don't.

no one hurt anyone in the marissa alexander case. she shot the ceiling. that's a faulty metaphor.

[1StrongBlackMan]

21. Wait ...

Just reading the segment from the page ... Am I to gather that, people can shoot a stranger because you are afraid of them with no reason for being so, other than the voices in your head ... But you CAN'T shoot someone because you are afraid of them BECAUSE they have a history of being violent toward you?

SC NEEDS MORE FEMALE PROSECUTORS! And failing that, more prosecutors interested in seeing justice served than seeing a political agenda served.

[BobbyBoring]

22. A woman is killed every 12 days?

WTF is wrong with these backwards added pukes?

[redruddyred]

52. because current policing methods don't work.

cops don't understand the cycle of abuse, or the psychology of the abuser.

[blackspade]

59. Cops don't understand shit, period.

[tblue37]

71. Considering that cops have a high rate of abusers among their

number, I suspect they understand the cycle of abuse just fine.

[Takket]

23. how do these people sleep at night?

When you fight for a law giving people the right to kill another person without making any reasonable attempt to retreat (stand your ground), but at the same time try top make sure that law doesn't apply to women being abused.... how do you sleep at night? How do you go to be satisfied when THAT is what you are fighting for? You are going out of your way to make sure abused women stay that way... is this something to be proud of? I.... can't even process it, it makes me sick.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

24. ^ n/t

[Jenoch]

29. Will someone please explain the last sentence in the OP to me?

"More than 70 percent of those who kill their spouse had “multiple prior arrests on those charges” and the majority spent just days in jail."

This sentence says that 70% of those who kill their spouse had been arrested for killing their spouse multiple times prior to the last time they killed their spouse and the majority of those 70% who killed their spouse only spent days in jail.


Writing and editing sure is not what it used to be.

[babylonsister]

35. Since that's not possible,

I imagine TP meant 70% of them had been arrested numerous times for domestic abuse prior to killing their spouses with no real punishment meted out.

But you knew that.

[Jenoch]

36. You even got it wrong.

Your sentence says the person abused was arrested numerous times in 70% of domestic abuse cases.

[babylonsister]

40. No, dear, you're reading

into it what you want. 70% of 'them' arrested due to domestic abuse...that would not be the person abused.

Whatever. I just got home from work, am pooped, and the wordsmith in me cares not; it's the story that's important.

[Jenoch]

57. The problem is that the subject of the sentence

is 'them' and then the reference to killing. In both the OP and your post, the 'them' is referencing the killer, who is the victim of the domestic assault and yet the 70% figure is also referencing the killer. The syntax is wrong.

[redruddyred]

54. the problem isn't punishment, rather scaring these guys enough to keep them from

bothering these women again. because clearly what we're doing now is not working.

some people have mentioned that marissa alexander acted provocatively, but it's possible that she also didn't want to become another statistic.

[lark]

30. South Carolina protect women?

Heavens no, those good ole' boys can't have that. Stand your ground is only for white men to be able to kill any minority (including a woman) with impunity.

Fucking assholes! They make me sick!!

[n2doc]

31. There was a detailed article on SC's problems dealing with domestic violence a while back

see
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016100501

[strawberries]

34. now I have heard it all

probably the only time I could support such a law too. I am beside myself

[blkmusclmachine]

45. How much longer can it be until the Republican Party pushes for women wearing burqas,

and "submitting" to their husbands or fathers or brothers or the State, or some other responsible male chaperone, just like "Jesus" wants women to do???


GOP to America: Theocracy Now! Theocracy Forever!

[ileus]

46. "prosecutor" his job is to make anyone a criminal...it's what he does.

I have a feeling the defense feels differently, like many here do.

I'd also venture to say most voters also agree that SYG applies inside the home against any aggressor.

Always refuse to be an easy victim.

[blackspade]

60. That should be ...

persecutor then.

[Sheldon Cooper]

47. Very telling:

“We believe that applying the statute so that its reach into our homes and personal relationships is inconsistent with (its) wording and intent.”

(emphasis added)

They want to continue to abuse their domestic partners without fear of SYG getting in their way. I wonder if he realizes how revealing this is.

[redruddyred]

55. how much you wanna bet that

he's the kind of guy who thinks marital rape is a load of phooey.

[Sheldon Cooper]

56. Exactly.

[Darb]

48. Good Gawd, how vulcan shameless can you get?

There is no depth that will not be reached. We need some movement or some leader to take on this delusion that has taken hold of nearly half our population. Something has to be done.

[AndyTiedye]

49. The Legislature's Intent with SWG was to Declare Open Season on Minorities

and the prosecutors there are following that intent quite faithfully.

Seems like a good argument could be made in Federal court to throw the SYG laws out on that basis.

[sammy750]

53. The Law should be written so it is clear who and what is covered.

Most readers know that Republicans and Conservatives don't support women or their rights. We see that is the many bills passed against women and their rights. A women being attack by a boyfriend or husband is an attack, it is a non issue. Prosecutors should not be allowed by the courts or judges to decide how the law is interpreted The Judge is in charge, not the prosecutor, so judges stand up for the rights and the lives of women. Don't let a woman hater prosecutor get away with this. Women stand up for your rights. Protest and fill the halls of Justice until you get attention and changes. Stand up for your rights.
Also voting smart and defeating Republicans and those against rights and freedoms for women need not to be elected. Vote wise women.

[blackspade]

58. Kidd sounds like an abusing prick protecting himself.

I wonder if things would have been different if Whitlee Jones had used a gun instead of a knife?
Would the NRA stepped in to help her out?

[jeffrey_pdx]

62. Obviously horrible

But it makes me think of Trayvon Martin.

You're a teenager, you go to the store to buy some snacks, a man you don't know, who outweighs you by a lot accosts you with a loaded gun. You defend yourself. And he was standing his ground?

[MontyPow]

63. I think it should be taken one step further and used

As a defense for abortion.

[bvf]

64. What the fuck? n/t

[IronLionZion]

66. while pointing his gun at several teens he called “women thugs.”

I'm curious about these women thugs. Does anyone have more info?

[jwirr]

69. Let's try that one out on the SCOTUS.

[AverageJoe90]

70. Culver Kidd is a corrupt piece of shit, no doubt.

Too bad it's not likely this guy will be held to account for that, though, at least not in the nearfuture, anyway.