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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHealthcare professionals all over the country are screaming from the roof tops
they have not been sufficiently trained on precautions for ebola and that the protective equipment they are provided is not sufficient.
Please listen to them. They know.
It doesn't matter if the CDC tells everyone in this country that every single hospital can safely handle a contamination.
They cannot. The proof for that is in TX and from the voices of nurses all over this country!
This is not a panicked post, but a call for some god damned common sense.
Stop blaming nurses, and stop sticking one heads in the sand that it is just one hospital. This country needs to get a handle on this asap. We are not prepared.
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kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)responsible for every failure in that hospital.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)They aren't infallible. That much is quite apparent. But there is no call to disband the CDC.
Those would be your sarcastic words.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)But we all know the RW wants the entire federal government disbanded except for the military and spies.
And plenty of folks right here on DU are blaming Frieden personally and the entire CDC for the gross professional incompetence of everyone in charge of protocols or supervising staff at that hospital.
former9thward
(32,006 posts)Without knowing a single fact about how she got the disease. He wanted to make sure nothing was coming back on him so blame the person on the bottom.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)If this is true he needs to accept his role although no one may have been infected he needs to explain why anyone would give the OK if as he claims they should not have allowed her to fly commercial
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)For whatever small number of imperfections the CDC may have been accountable for, Frieden and company have been doing their best to do their job. This is NOT the time for ANYONE to resign.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Not saying he should be fired but the CDC dropped the ball on this by assuming the hospital staff was competent in something that it's blatantly clear the management didn't have the slightest clue about.
sinkingfeeling
(51,457 posts)from taking it over.
DhhD
(4,695 posts)gas so the demand will be greater here, driving the price for gasoline UP.
And he is doing this on the dime of the Texas Taxpayers. He is getting job training for his new line of work, Lobbyist for Big Oil and Gas.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)AND ownership in every hospital in all 50 States?
DU'ers need to get a grip and understand what the CDC can and cannot do.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)It would have been nice if the CDC had sent someone really familiar with the protocols to oversee the care of the single Ebola patient in the country, that rather obviously did not happen.
Just the fact that the hospital diagnosed Duncan with some sort of flu and then sent him home with antibiotics that would be totally ineffective against the flu should have raised huge red warning flags that care there was not the best.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)were of the highest order. They lied.
Now CDC will have to officially verify this at every single hospital in the country that wants to legally operate an isolation ward.
Stupid, evil fuckers run the hospitals down there, apparently.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Maybe even in all of them, it wouldn't surprise me one bit.
cali
(114,904 posts)up as the hospital had screwed up so badly initially with Duncan.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)above criticism. Any criticism will be considered criticism of the President which is very close to treason. Just sayin'.
Tweedy
(628 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 15, 2014, 10:07 PM - Edit history (1)
Cdc was there within hours of notification Mr. Duncan tested positive for Ebola. Cdc did not know hospital sent him home first until they arrived. Cdc did not know they held him against protocols for 2 days while waiting for test results before they were informed. Cdc is good, but not omnipotent.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)prepared. Do you believe them? We haven't gotten off to a god start. This situation might be an aberration or a symptom of a coming disaster.
We have treated infectious people in this country for years. This hospital screwed up from the beginning. Hospitals screw up every day, unfortunately. It just does not get wall to wall media coverage. I assume they have learned the tragic lesson and that risk managers everywhere are screaming bloody murder making certain their hospitals can cope, their workers are trained and everyone understands and has read the protocols.
Tweedy
(628 posts)Last edited Thu Oct 16, 2014, 01:28 AM - Edit history (1)
The problems happened before the cdc got there. The cdc was fast-- within hours. We need our hospitals to read, follow and train on protocols. We need the state agencies regulating hospitals to make certain this happens. We could have the cdc take over every hospital, but goodness knows that won't be happening any time soon.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Because I haven't read anything that would indicate that to be the case.
Tweedy
(628 posts)I'm saying they arrived within hours of notification of positive diagnosis, which was reported at the time. [link:http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/health/2014/09/29/dallas-presbytarian|
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Was the CDC overseeing the care of Mr Duncan?
Because if they weren't doing so then the CDC were making a rash and unwarranted assumption, that the hospital was competent to care for an Ebola patient when no one there had ever so much as seen such a patient.
Tweedy
(628 posts)I answered your question. Ask yourself this, if we have 5723 hospitals in this country and 15,000 cdc workers (many of whom work overseas) what happens if an actual epidemic hits this country? If the cdc has to oversee care in every hospital, we are in real trouble. Hospitals deal with the strange, the unknown and the new often. This is part of what a hospital needs to be able to do. Anyway, cdc will be overseeing all treatment now. Though this solution is not an answer should an outbreak, or goodness forbid, an epidemic hits.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)He was assuring the public that US was ready and every hospital in US could do it.
Which is clearly not the case.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)seems like a salesman to me.
grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Is it the implication that only the CDC can give wholesale training to every hospital in the country?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]
boston bean
(36,221 posts)They are not.
And they need to be. And the CDC is not an infallible institution, it is becoming more and more clear that their standards for precautions in the US are not sufficient as they are reviewing them and will most likely revise them.
I don't blame the CDC for anything, but they should not be stating untruths to calm the public. They now know that every single hospital in the US is not ready and able to contain this if it comes through their doors.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)Randy Schilts wrote about that back in 1987 in his book about AIDS, And The Band Played On.
CDC did not want to deal with a "gay" disease, and unfortunately Ebola is seen as an African disease.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)I'll have to pick up that book. I know a few months ago someone provided a link to the book "The Hot Zone" by Richard Preston and I even though I had read it a couple of times before, I was really struck this time by how the CDC conducted itself with regards to Ebola Reston. I guess I don't understand why you wouldn't want to err on the side of caution. There is NOTHING to be gained by apathy in these circumstances, and a lot to lose.
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)And lots in there about how Fauci and a French scientist fought over the credit for identifying the virus, much ego and political wrangling ensued while people continued to die.
Just finished re-reading the Hot Zone and now am reading The Cobra, by Preston, another book about deadly viruses.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It kind of helps keep this particular episode in perspective.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)effort to follow them is the problem.
Otherwise, where are the sick nurses in Atlanta or Nebraska?
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)How do you think the nurses at Dallas Presbyterian feel when they turn on the tv and see healthcare personnel in Nebraska and Emory suited up in hazmat suits? Why do you think they were putting tape around their necks?
Some folks screwed up BIG TIME at Dallas Pres, but the CDC guidelines are still woefully inadequate.
Again, hospital staff in Nebraska and Atlanta are working in units rated for level 4 bio - the best physical environment, the best equipment, the best PPE (personal protective equipment), and the best training in the world. Furthermore, they actually DRILL for events like this so proper precautions are fresh in the minds.
Dorian Gray
(13,493 posts)and Duncan should have been sent there, immediately, for treatment.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)In particular they overrated the management of the hospital, most of what went wrong there can be laid at the feet of management.
liberalmuse
(18,672 posts)They skimped on safety to save money, and they really need to answer for this. The sad thing is, for-profit systems are notorious for gambling, and are willing to take risks on human lives and safety if in the end it means they can maximize profits. A few nurses and a half dozen already sick patients are disposable commodities to people of this mindset.
sdfernando
(4,935 posts)I mentioned to my roomie that this really is a failure of our "for profit health care system" This guy goes into the hospital, has no insurance so they do what they always do now with is figuratively to give them some pain meds and send them on their way so they don't get stuck with big unpaid bills...I mean there is no profit in that!
ladyVet
(1,587 posts)'Cause you know, we're all gonna die from that.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)
liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)same as last year, because two years ago I ended up flat on my ass in the hospital and damn near died from it despite being fairly young and healthy, and my husband and son became very ill, too. And so did many members of our then-community, with some deaths. So an epic fail if you're trying to claim that the flu is harmless and there's no need to worry about it. EPIC fail.
Response to liberalhistorian (Reply #17)
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Ilsa
(61,695 posts)about vaccines that have saved millions of lives. Any proof, or is it just, "I read this bullshit on the internet the other day and want to stink up things up"?
Response to Ilsa (Reply #73)
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uppityperson
(115,677 posts)liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)The flu commonly knocks down quite healthy people, the state of their immune system has nothing to do with it. I've known people younger and healthier to be knocked down by it, my doctor said it was far more common than you'd think, which is one reason it's so dangerous. No, the vaccine does not (and cannot) cover all the hundreds of strains of flu, but it does cover the strains that are predicted to be the common ones for the particular flu season. I have no freaking idea where you got your ridiculous, irresponsible statement that the vaccines reduce the effectiveness of the immune system by half, but it is nothing but ignorant fear-mongering bullshit, the kind that ignorant fear-mongering anti-vaxxer idiots would put out that endangers so many innocent people. I haven't even had a cold in the two years since I've been getting the shot, and it's greatly reduced the incidents of serious flu, as well as the flu in general, in my state.
ohnoyoudidnt
(1,858 posts)require them to get flu shots
enki23
(7,788 posts)And every year.
TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)Yeah, I've seen that here before in a reply to me.
Emory and Nebraska are among the 4 hospitals with bio level 4 treatment units. Best trained personnel in the world for containment of diseases like Ebola. Best facilities. Best personal protective equipment.
I would bet a thousand dollars that they are wearing biohazard suits compared to the crap that the nurses at Dallas Presbyterian were wearing.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)You can look at the photos to see that.
They were also well trained on how to use PPEs and how to take them off.
CDC guidelines appear to be bare minimum and not adequate.
And hospital in TX apparently made a mess of trying to follow them.
CrispyQ
(36,464 posts)the nurses were given a website address to go to. That is how corporate America trains people nowadays - give you a website to go to.
I am a computer programmer & yes, I read a lot about how to code, but where I really learned about programming was by doing it. The corporos are going to kill us all in their endless pursuit of profit above all else.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)
frylock
(34,825 posts)
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)"...but where I really learned about programming was by doing it...."
Yeap, the end of learning is DOING not reading... this is the way I've learned computer engineering
ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)
irisblue
(32,975 posts)have no idea what the differences are.
liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)the hospital, but I have yet to hear any blame thrown at the nurses, which would be utterly disgusting if that is the case. The nurses are the ones who've been trying to get that particular hospital to handle infectious medical waste properly for a long time, as apparently they have not been doing so. Hospital administrators (aka profit-driven bean counters) are the ones who refused the nurses' pleas to put Duncan in isolation instead of out in the hall for hours, and they are the ones who told nurses who complained about not having proper clothing and equipment to "put medical tape on their necks" and the like. The fucking profit-driven bean counters in our for-profit, profit-before-people, profit-uber-alles health care system are largely to blame, along with a heaping side dish of denial and naivety from the CDC.
mcar
(42,331 posts)How much pressure were those nurses under to finish up quickly to see more patients or do more paperwork?
I don't blame them or the CDC. I think the hospital administration needs investigating.
Tumbulu
(6,278 posts)their staff and other patients? Where is OSHA on this?
They left him in the hallway??????
Why wasn't he transferred to a Biohazarrd 4 unit?
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)"In terms of appropriate PPE, OSHA suggests coveralls, gloves, head coverings, foot coverings, face shields and vented goggles. A Tyvek full-body coverall with elastic wrists, attached hood and booties, combined with nitrile gloves and ANSI-compliant face shield and goggles are specific examples of the PPE OSHA suggests."
Now, that's from an industrial catalog.
Here's part of what OSHA has to say:
Employers must transport contaminated clothing in sealed, impermeable bags or other closed impermeable containers bearing appropriate labels. (See the hazard communication section elsewhere in this publication for label requirements.)
The competent person must examine employee worksuits at least once per work shift for rips or tears. Rips or tears found while an employee is working must be mended or the worksuit replaced immediately.
For this class of asbestos work, the requirements are as follows:
Employers must create a decontamination area adjacent to and connected with the regulated area.
Workers must enter and exit the regulated area through the decontamination area.
The decontamination area must include an equipment room, shower area, and clean room in series and comply with the following:
Equipment room must have impermeable, labeled bags and containers to store and dispose of contaminated protective equipment.
Shower area must be adjacent to both the equipment and clean rooms, unless work is performed outdoors or this arrangement is not feasible (in either case, employers must ensure that employees remove asbestos contamination from their worksuits in the equipment room using a HEPA vacuum before proceeding to a shower not adjacent to the work area or remove their contaminated worksuits in the equipment room, don clean worksuits, and proceed to a shower not adjacent to the work area).
Clean room must have a locker or appropriate storage container for each employee.
Employers must transport contaminated clothing in sealed, impermeable bags or other closed impermeable containers bearing appropriate labels. (See the hazard communication section elsewhere in this publication for label requirements.)
The competent person must examine employee worksuits at least once per work shift for rips or tears. Rips or tears found while an employee is working must be mended or the worksuit replaced immediately.
What are the hygiene-related requirements for employees performing Class I asbestos work involving more than 25 linear feet or 10 square feet of thermal system insulation or surfacing ACM or PACM?
For this class of asbestos work, the requirements are as follows:
Employers must create a decontamination area adjacent to and connected with the regulated area.
Workers must enter and exit the regulated area through the decontamination area.
The decontamination area must include an equipment room, shower area, and clean room in series and comply with the following:
Equipment room must have impermeable, labeled bags and containers to store and dispose of contaminated protective equipment.
Shower area must be adjacent to both the equipment and clean rooms, unless work is performed outdoors or this arrangement is not feasible (in either case, employers must ensure that employees remove asbestos contamination from their worksuits in the equipment room using a HEPA vacuum before proceeding to a shower not adjacent to the work area or remove their contaminated worksuits in the equipment room, don clean worksuits, and proceed to a shower not adjacent to the work area).
Clean room must have a locker or appropriate storage container for each employee.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1002&pid=5668443
Elsewhere, OSHA requires that people be trained in the use of personal protective equipment and respirators before using them.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)..and the companies that regularly perform these tasks have it pretty much down to a science.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Most people in these jobs are doing heavy labor and have limited educations. Proper protection isn't rocket science. Take a look at this posting and see what looks familiar.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025673615#post1
Tommymac
(7,263 posts)This would be the game breaker for an October surprise.
Demand Congress get their butts back to DC and approve his nominee for Surgeon General. Put the blame on them as to why there is no leadership developing and coordinating processes on a Federal level.
Using this, along with the 'Republican Cuts Kill' meme, we can still take control of the elections - but only if it is done NOW.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)That is the responsibility of the Centers for DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION.
Tommymac
(7,263 posts)and advise and help the President set the Executive Branch policy re Medical issues.
They coordinate efforts and help the different groups (such as the CDC, a Federal organization) prepare proper procedures.
They help the public understand the Medical policies that have been set.
Something that has not been done for years since the NRA and the rethugs blocked President Obama's appointee.
Leadership in a crisis is vital. Without it the center will not hold.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)hedgehog
(36,286 posts)having procedures in place. As it happens, while any hospital in the country should be able to treat someone with a contagious disease, many (most?) fall down on the job.
Check out the CDC recommendations regarding MRSA
http://www.cdc.gov/mrsa/
The CDC can only advise; it can not force hospitals to follow recommended procedures.
underpants
(182,803 posts)
arikara
(5,562 posts)here in BC, when the mr was treated by the hospital as if he had MRSA (he did not... but that's another story and yet another gong show) I was absolutely appalled at their protocols. Its no wonder contagious diseases are rampant in the hospitals.
Nurses gowned and masked to go into his room, one standing outside the door charting, I got reprimanded when I nearly touched the chart to point something out. Me in and out of his room with no gown or mask. Doctors breezing in and out with no gown or mask. He was in for surgery and they had to specially decontaminate the surgical room after, which was probably a really good thing anyhow. He spent a couple days in an isolation room, some nurses gowned before they went in, some, especially the night shift didn't bother. No doctors ever bothered. Yet a food server was sent home to change because she entered his room with no gown and mask. They gowned and masked Hubby and the porter who wheeled him down the hall to the x ray, then he was released as soon the xray was taken. So he changed into his street clothes and just walked out after days of this bizarre form of infection control.
Heaven help them if there is an outbreak of something where somebody is actually contagious. Canada's solution at this point is to take a traveller's temperature if they appear sick when they get off the plane.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)a health clinic in a small community that is probably not at risk but one can never know. I asked if they were ready if they needed to be. Her answer was - not that I know of - we have received a few things but have not been told to do anything special to prepare.
In our community most people do not go to the hospital for help but come to the clinics in town. Does anyone know if CDC is working with clinics?
vi5
(13,305 posts)I personally don't know enough either way to cast a judgment.
But the people just reflexively defending the CDC, in what seems like an attempt to absolve the president of any, even tangential connection to anything involving this are as always, laughable and delusional.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)vi5
(13,305 posts)I never said that. But the fact that before anyone actually gets any of the facts, just saying "Oh, it's not the CDC's fault!!!!!" means you're more concerned about PR for the president than what is best for the country, and ultimately no better than the idiots screaming that it's all the President's fault.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)Kinda adolescent ...
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I think the problem this tragedy is exposing will take a cultural shift to resolve.
A large part of my J-O-B is resolving issues of Organizational Dysfunction. In each case, I must ask hours, days or even weeks of questions to get truthful answers to what REALLY happened that led to the break-down ... instead, I routinely get half-truths and flat out lies.
Our culture, especially in the business sector, is not one of responsibility ... rather than, acknowledging a problem and our role in that problem, we automatically go into denial and blame shifting, both of which forestalls arriving at a solution.
Ironically, if we were to affect a cultural shift to responsibility, most of the problems we face, would be short work.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I think that's a warranted assumption given the business climate these days, at least for people on the bottom of the organizational chart such as nurses anyway.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)and so sad.
This culture stifles the risk-taking, essential to innovation and discovery; while, building false pictures of what, actually, is ... resulting in solutions that do not address the problem.
I have, long, toyed with the idea of writing a book ... it's premise: when organizations punish "honest" mistakes, the organization is in a death spiral. For example, I have seen in the Government that the most risk-adverse individual of competence, rises to the top of the organization. Why? Because they know that one "mistake" (bad result) means their career is dead. Therefore, they never take risks that could possibly lead to a bad result. On the other hand, in the private sector, a bad result/mistake isn't (wasn't) necessarily a career killer ... so long as the mistake was recognized early and measures put in place to minimize the damage. This calls for the decision-maker to have the confidence that acknowledging, and being able to honestly explain HOW they arrived at, the mistake will go unpunished.
OhioChick
(23,218 posts)DesMoinesDem
(1,569 posts)All healthcare workers in blue states are experts on Ebola.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)could safely handle a patient who comes to the ER and is already sick from Ebola. I also know how the units are set up, and I don't think any of them could do it either.
VA_Jill
(9,971 posts)If this woman can do it with nothing but gloves, a rain coat, rubber boots, stockings and trash bags, plus rigorous hand washing.......WTF, America? Get with the program! http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/health/ebola-fatu-family
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)grahamhgreen
(15,741 posts)infected in TX, with hospitals and nurses that far exceed their African counterparts, it's easy to imagine that Africa may fall prey to this virus in a major way.
QUESTIONS:
How much ebola were they exposed to?
Did a a significant amount of bodily fluids touch their skin, or was it transmitted by tiny drops or droplets in the air?
IE, just how infectious is it?
deutsey
(20,166 posts)Duncan was suspected of having Ebola when he was admitted to a hospital isolation unit Sept. 28, and he developed projectile vomiting and explosive diarrhea later that day, according to medical records his family turned over to The Associated Press.
But workers at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas did not abandon their gowns and scrubs for hazmat suits until tests came back positive for Ebola about 2 p.m. on Sept. 30, according to details of the records released by AP.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025669722
deutsey
(20,166 posts)saying the same thing.
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/10/15/as_second_dallas_nurse_diagnosed_with
Rex
(65,616 posts)viruses.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)i would suggest we're not prepared for any really dangerous outbreak...
sP
Rex
(65,616 posts)Maybe it is the severity of ebola that has so many worried. Just seems like we handle viruses on a daily basis and do pretty good, also since there is no cure yet for ebola. I guess what it boils down to is we are prepared for a dangerous outbreak, just not of the ebola kind.
ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)it kills thousands every year and while not as 'interesting' as ebola it is still largely uncontrolled. the other fun stuff is things like MRSA that is found from time to time IN hospitals. people go in for something minor and end up getting limbs cut off due to the lack of hygiene within the hospital walls.
ebola should be easier to control than the flu... much easier... but it is obvious the Keystone Cops are running the show.
sP
Aerows
(39,961 posts)my local county hospital isn't prepared to handle a rabies exposure case. That's a fatal as it gets in humans, and is unfortunately all too prevalent.
I had to go a county over (50 miles) away to get the shots.
You think they are prepared for Ebola if they can't even treat rabies exposure?
deutsey
(20,166 posts)KAREN HIGGINS: Well, I think that, again, it was a perfect storm. It was set up. That, you know, the hospital says, "We are ready for infection," well, we are ready for infection, we’re just not ready for this kind of infection. We were not ready for Ebola, and we were not ready with the precautions that are actually needed to isolate these patients. And it’s really, you know, frustrating, and we are angry. We put everybody at risk when we don’t do things right. And they did not do things right. They did not do the proper training, which is the biggest piece to this. If you train nurses, if you train healthcare workers, not only to be able to pinpoint that somebody has that disease, but to pinpoint that you can isolate them and put them on precautions and do everything you possibly can, wearing precautions to take care of that patient, this would not have happened. And it did happen.
And as I said, you know, we’re hearing from nurses across the country that, you know what, it would be the same scenario, that they’re not doing enough training, that there is a level of infectious disease that we’ve always done training for, but not to this level. And if we’re going to see the possibility of having another patient that has Ebola in another hospital, we have to up the game. We need to be able to take care of that patient way beyond the level that we have our normal training at. And, you know, we need the guidance—not just the guidance, we need a standard of practice so that if we know, from this point on, in every hospital, and not just accept the fact that they keep saying we’re prepared, but we need to mandate that they have a certain level of care, that they have a certain—you know, a level of equipment that is the safest equipment we can use, but that we’re also invested in doing one-on-one training, that we’re doing it one to one, that we are repeating the training, that we are doing drills, that we are doing everything we possibly can, not only to protect those that are taking care of that patient, but to make sure that this never happens again and that somebody else gets infected inside of a hospital because they were taking care of somebody.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)couldn't handle rabies exposure. I had to go a county over to get the shots. You think they could handle Ebola? I doubt the hospital that I went to a county over could handle it, either. Staffing. Every damn hospital in the state has cut staff to the bone - that leads to accidents, distraction and missing important information. All in the quest for more and more profit.
I doubt I am alone in having an inadequately equipped hospital, either.
rustydog
(9,186 posts)We are being educated. I am a trainer in donning protective gear in biologic attacks...It is the same with Ebola.
Now, what you need are frequent drills so staff REMEMBER what they have been trained to do. PROTOCOLS have to be followed. If you do not follow protocol, you are harming yourself and your institution.
You need negative pressure rooms house the patients. You need a spotter to observe you donning protective gear to ensure you have done it correctly. you need the spotter to make sure your disrobing is done incorrect sequence so you don't contaminate yourself.
I wish people here would stop spreading the panic over TWO cases of Ebola. My god you're doing the work of Fox news for them.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Those in poorer states don't have that privilege.
redruddyred
(1,615 posts)and even if it did we couldn't fund it.
it's not that I live in a poor state, it's that I live with poor people. and we, as a nation, have decided that poor people don't deserve proper healthcare.
there is no reason for panic about anything, ever, but I can't help but feel that these scientists who tell us that there is no danger of an outbreak in the US have no idea what the reality of healthcare is like for 50% of americans (ie nonexistent).
or so it was. obamacare may have been just in time.
redruddyred
(1,615 posts)been in and out of them for the last couple of years and even the best ones inspire no better than frustration. is reform too much to hope for?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)The indifference to the concerns of - not to mention the outright blaming of - front line health care workers in this country, the overworked, underpaid people who will be putting their LIVES on the line to treat the steady importation of ebola patients that the "experts" have told us they don't intend to do a damn productive thing to restrict... It's appalling.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)Best practices of Nebraska Medicine (their new name) and Emory. I know from the news stories that UNMC has practiced these protocols for months for that just-in-case moment that finally took place.
One entity that has been deathly (the pun wasn't intended, but it is pertinent) quiet on this that I'd really like to hear from: Fort Detrick
Since you seem to have some knowledge (or at least strong opinions), I'd pose this to you: Emory and Nebraska medicine have handled this (so far - knock wood) without a hiccup. Without getting into a blame game, why did things go so wrong at Texas Presbyterian?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)First and foremost, emory and nebraska knew it was coming, and presumably were prepared in advance for a level 4 pathogen.
Did you notice that plane they flew Brantly, etc. back to the US on? Couldn't miss it- charcoal colored lear jet lookin' thing, was all over the news. That's a plane that is specially outfitted to handle a level 4 pathogen.
Oh, wait, did I say "a" plane? I meant, "the".. Know how many other planes on the planet are designed to safely carry a patient with a level 4 pathogen? None.
Treating this like it's no big deal is a recipe for trouble. Despite months of being told ebola would melt in the presence of our unassailable 1st world health care system, it isn't. We need to stop letting visa holders in from the center of the epidemic until there is a vaccine or treatment, period.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)Emory is down the street (just about literally) from the CDC
UNMC/Nebraska Medicine is the closest teaching hospital to Stratcom, one of the most sensitive military targets in the US, and a presumtive first strike target of a N/B/C attack.
I would presume (or at least hope) that Johns Hopkins would be prepared for such an eventuality, given that Fort Detrik (the home or our biological weaponry masterminds and specimins) is an hour or so down the road. As I said, I'd love to hear what they have to say about this.
We should all be thankful that we do live in a nation with very good overall basic sanitation and public health. One of the beauties of our market economy is that while there may only be one Level 4 pathogen air ambulance at the moment, others will emerge quickly if needed.
Having said that, nothing suceeds like prevention and preparation, so I hope that every hospital is rehearsing for this, and acquiring the knowhow and gear they need just-in-case. If we are to keep accepting West Africans, we need them limited to a single port of ntry, and we need to keep them in some sort of isolation until we can verify they are disease free. Not accepting them is another very viable option.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)It seems pretty basic public health stuff. This is not something that we should expect the run of the mill ERs to handle, if someone shows up vomiting and with 104.
And i will say that nothing about restricting entry into this country implies or should imply not feeling it necessary to throw resources into solving the problem there... Actually i believe having to deal with cases here, even a small stream of importations and clusters, will be more likely to take the west's eye off the ball over there.
As far as the failures of the free market, the fact that we probably could have had a vaccine years ago had the profit motive been there, sort of speaks for itself. Now we have to play catch-up.
judesedit
(4,438 posts)Just like the voted against more funding for additional security at Benghazi......then they blame everybody but themselves for the outcomes.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)...is that the CDC initially said that the nurses were contaminated because they did not follow proper protocol.
However, we discover that these nurses were never given proper equipment or garments to protect themselves. They were taping their gowns together to fend off projectile vomit!
Then, these nurses were thrown under the bus.
And after this poor nurse was unwittingly infected with Ebola and got on a plane, she was heavily criticized by the CDC. Now we come to find out that she called the CDC several times and was told to fly. They cleared her!!
This is an outrage! These nurses are suffering with a deadly virus! They are the scapegoats. It is an abomination. And it is intentional, because the government will find a scapegoat before they admit to wrongdoings. And they will filter their lies through the media and destroy anyone who can serve as a convenient patsy.
This is really sick!! I am glad to see these nurses and their unions speaking out.
These nurses are on the front lines daily, facing this threat and they are vulnerable because they aren't trained or given the proper protective equipment. Then, when they are infected--because of the incompetence of others---they get to suffer with the worst disease on the planet and face their own deaths, while being scapegoated.
Fuck that!
Tumbulu
(6,278 posts)I want the hospital admin prosecuted as well for negligence.
world wide wally
(21,743 posts)The scariest words in the English language?
moniss
(4,242 posts)I recommend everybody to watch the movie " The Hospital" with George C. Scott. It was a Paddy Chayefsky movie. It gives a true insight into what really goes on. Also check out HBO for the series "Getting On" which might appear to seem over the top about convalescent care but I assure you it is dead on the money.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)greymattermom
(5,754 posts)Ebola requires BSL-4 facilities. There are only 4, including Emory and Nebraska. Also, many nurses work as traveling nurses, including my nephew, an ER nurse. They stay 3 months at one location then move on. If one of them got infected, they would spread the disease to a new location quickly and would expose ER patients, the poor and the injured.
tiptonic
(765 posts)This could be the big one. I know, lets cut taxes and cut the budget. That will fix everything.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)rtracey
(2,062 posts)Perhaps if we would have done what the CDC suggested and requested in early 2014, and applied resources to combat the Ebola in Western Africa, from the on-set, we wouldn't be in this situation.
Nurses are professional, or hopefully are. I don't blame any medical practitioners, but they should have known, with months of Ebola talk, that there was a possibility that a case may arrive in their facility.
Things like this are going to happen and will continue to happen. Complacency will get the best of anyone. AIDS, TB, FLU, other infectious diseases are still very prevalent in our society, and we need to deal with these also...
I read this yesterday and totally agree....
"Our Privatized Healthcare System is the Problem, Our Issue with Making Everything a Political Issue is the Problem, The Profit Instead of Caring About People over Profits and Revenue is the Problem, the President himself is not the Problem --- our ENTIRE SYSTEM is the issue.
We should have helped the West African Nations when this outbreak occurred in late 2013-2014. The fact that we did not use the vast resources of the USA to help, is the problem!"