So this 2nd nurse was told not to fly and uh well she flew anyway

[npk]

Fucking unbelievable.

[LisaL]

1. People do a lot of things they are told not to do.

As we all have seen.
Mr. Duncan claimed he wasn't in contact with anyone sick.
People put in voluntary quarantine were seen out and about.
And the nurse flew to another state, then flew back (already with a fever).

[snagglepuss]

116. True but unlike Duncan she is a nurse and American and has health insurance.

If she was told not to fly but did anway she should be charged.

[kelliekat44]

124. That's not what she said. She said she called the CDC and they said it was ok to fly? WTF? nt

[WinkyDink]

140. She might be lying. But even so, she knew her situation and, as a nurse, as a human being, should

not have tried to use the CDC like a kid getting permission from Dad, when Dad doesn't really know the whole story.

[WinkyDink]

139. People commit actual crimes, too. But this defiant action was particularly unconscionable.

[elehhhhna]

2. with a fever per new cdc info

true aashole, she is. And now her mom is flying commerciaL to Dallas. Stupid
Fycking idiots.

[B2G]

4. And her mom will now get on a plane to Atlanta

since she's being transferred to Emory.

[ecstatic]

14. Where are you hearing this? Did Amber already have direct contact with her mom? nt

[B2G]

16. Yes, she was visiting her family in Ohio. nt

[LisaL]

18. I presume she was in contact with mother while visiting her family in OH.

Now her mother is apparently flying all over the place.
Shouldn't mother be in quarantine somewhere?

[ecstatic]

30. This is crazy! I'm picturing how my family would have handled things

if, while I was visiting from out of town, we learned that there was a protocol breach and one of my coworkers was officially diagnosed with ebola. They would have insisted that I stay my ass there and they would have called the CDC the second my temperature started to spike. Sending me on my way via plane wouldn't have happened. What were they thinking?!

[LisaL]

7. Why is mother even flying to Dallas, when this nurse is being transferred to Emory?

We can't do voluntary quarantines, clearly people don't listen.
They should be put under mandatory quarantines, and arrested if they break them.
Then put in a isolated jail cell.

[B2G]

15. From what I read, she was on a plane

before they announced she was being transferred to Emory. So that's now 2 filghts.

[LisaL]

20. Why hasn't she been put in quarantine?

[B2G]

21. Because that would make too much sense.

[LisaL]

23. Of course.

Silly me.

[LisaL]

86. Where the hell is that mother now?

Should we contact someone and tell them to look for her?
Mother is a direct contact.
A person who was in contact with the first nurse is in isolation in the hospital.
On the other hand, mother is reportedly flying somewhere.
That makes me very nervous.

[upaloopa]

78. I remember people saying that about HIV victims.

Let's build camps and put all the aids patients in them.

Body fluids remember. It is not an air born disease.

[Ms. Toad]

80. Ebola is easier to transmit than HIV.

In the very short lifespan one has ebola, each individual is expected to transmit it (on average) to 2 individuals. HIV - with a far longer lifespan with the disease, each individual is expected to transmit it (on average) to 4 individuals.

Because the average lifespan of an individual with HIV/AIDS is well more than double the average lifespan of an individual with ebola, that tells you that it is far easier to transmit ebola than it is to transmit HIV/AIDS, even though both have similar means of transmission.

[upaloopa]

81. If you are including Ebola in Africa that is different than ebola

here.

[Ms. Toad]

88. Really?

Seems Mr. Duncan already hit his average of 2.

And I have no idea why you would suggest ebola in Africa is different than here, since we now have the first case here that may rapidly create a new, higher, reproduction rate for here .... Once we have experience, we may well find it is different - and I would not be surprised to find it is worse because people in Africa are far less likely to hop on planes and spread it rapidly about the country. Not to mention that most facilities here have zero experience dealing with Ebola here - whereas in Africa they at least have experience (at least in disease recognition, if not effective transmission precautions).

Only time will tell - but for now what we have to go on is a reproduction rate (R2) based on the experience in Africa, and patient 0 in the US with his own personal reproduction rate of at least R2.

[upaloopa]

90. Well in a village with Ebola people don't take the

proper precautions and they handle the dead body thus more are infected by one patient which ups the average.
And an average needs more than Duncan to calculate.

[Ms. Toad]

93. That's kind of my point.

Your contention was that it is different here. ALL we have to go on is what it is where ebola is prevalent. And that is R2.

There are factors which make it likely to be lower (handling dead bodies more carefully, for one)
There are factors which make it likely to be higher (non-recognition of a disease virtually no one has seen, scores more care providers coming into contact with each patient (I can't imagine 70 care providers in Africa), prevalence of travel to far flung places), and the superiority complex of those providing care - which breeds carelessness (that we're not Africa; of course we can contain it) to name four.

Only time will tell. But for now, what we have is R2 over a very short period of time (ebola) v. R4 (over decades). Not only a theoretical R2, but patient 0 who has already infected 2, and may well be established to have infected more than 2 in his very short illness. That makes ebola much more contagious, so the quarantine concerns regarding HIV/AIDS are quite different - based on what we currently know - than concerns about what is needed to contain ebola, even though the mechanism of transmission is similar.

[upaloopa]

95. Maybe go to Madow blog she explained it better than I ever can

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/dr-daniel-bausch-answers-8-ebola-questions

“I don’t foresee the worst-case scenario – you know, having tens or hundreds of thousands of cases of Ebola in the United States – that’s extremely unlikely.”Dr. Daniel Bausch, Ebola expert

[Ms. Toad]

108. None of that contradicts anything I've said.

(Aside from which it was written when we were still smugly self-satisfied that we were too sophisticated for transmission to take place here).

My point is that the HIV/AIDS situation, in which each patient transmitted the disease to an average of 4 contacts over a couple of decades of living with the disease is not comparable to this situation, because ebola is much more easily transmitted - as evidenced by the fact than in a space of 2 weeks or so each patient infects 2 new individuals (on average).

In other words - it takes an HIV/AIDS patient half of the couple of decades (or more) s/he lives with HIV/AIDS, on average, to infect the same number of individuals which the ebola patient 0 has infected in 2 weeks. That is because despite the similarity in transmission modes, ebola is easier to catch than HIV/AIDS.

Granted, it is nowhere near as easily transmitted as chicken pox, or SARS, or any number of other diseases (which the blog uses to make the point of the low risk of catching ebola). But those diseases are not the one you chose to compare it to - and it is easier to transmit than HIV/AIDS.

[upaloopa]

111. Fine. We have nothing to fear from Ebola

That is my story and I stick to it.
Now we have MSNBC and Shep Smith on Fox saying so.
This is all media hype.

[snagglepuss]

117. What makes it virulent is the massive amount of virus in an infected person and needs only to land

on a tiny cut or someone with it on theri hands to rub their eye.

[boomer55]

37. which means she was contagious.

[B2G]

3. With a fever

She knowingly flew with a fever.

After having cared for an ebola patient who died.

What the holy fuck was she thinking.

And aren't all of those HCWs who are self monitoring on a no-fly list?

[RiffRandell]

63. The only medical experience I have is taking care of my

kids when they are sick and being a caregiver to my husband during his battle with cancer.

I just told him it seems I have more knowledge/common sense than some of the staff at THP with degrees in the medical field.

I mean, I think the fact that Duncan recently returned from Liberia would have been an important piece of information that should have been passed on during his first visit to the hospital.

After being exposed, having a fever and flying anyway is downright stupid and/or selfish. I don't care if it was 99.5.

If I were her it would have crossed my mind that I might be infected and called the people that were supposed to be monitoring me and expressed my concerns, not gotten on a commercial flight.

[notadmblnd]

73. if she survives, she should be charged with a crime

this is a health care worker who damn well knows better.

[Warpy]

5. The passenger who flew into Nigeria sick with it

didn't infect his seat mates.

He did infect the person who helped him off the plane.

Nigeria acted very aggressively to contain the infection.

Ebola requires close, physical contact. That is why it's deadly to nurses who work at hospitals where cost cutting is king and suits know nothing about the job nurses do.

[LisaL]

9. She is a medical professional.

Doesn't she supposed to know better?
Furthermore, if one person with Ebola didn't infect other people on the plane, we can not assume that nobody with Ebola would infect other people on the plane.

[Warpy]

25. You really don't get it

She needed to stay home. If there wasn't a compelling reason for her to travel like a family member in intensive care or a funeral, she's likely to face charges of one description or another and possibly the loss of her license.

She wasn't sick when she flew. People who aren't sick don't spread the infection, which lives in vomit and diarrhea and blood. It doesn't live on surfaces and sunlight kills it. Sneezing and coughing don't spread it. Close physical contact is required.

Remember, Mr. Duncan's family has so far been negative and they occupied the same living space when he was very sick with it. It's not an easy virus to catch unless one is in close physical contact with a person who is sick, not simply exposed and not yet sick.

[LisaL]

29. She already has symptoms when she flew back to Dallas.

She had a fever, which is a first symptom of Ebola.
So it's a lie that she was not symptomatic.

[Baitball Blogger]

38. Actually, sneezing carries droplets which do qualify as bodily fluids.

I believe there was an update that pointed out that sneezing was a concern.

[Warpy]

56. Ebola is not.an.upper.respiratory.virus

Contaminated body fluids are blood, vomit and diarrhea. While the virus is present in sweat and saliva, no transmission from either sweat or saliva has been documented. Transmission has occurred from semen up to 3 months after recovery from the disease, and from breast milk for several weeks after recovery.

The problem is that when it hits, it hits very quickly. People go from a slight headache to deathly ill in hours, which is why people with known exposure should not fly.

She probably believed that her coworker had broken (inadequate) protocol. She probably believed that (inadequate) protocol protected her and the headache was unconnected.

[Baitball Blogger]

58. Edited to get WHO's exact comments.

Last edited Wed Oct 15, 2014, 06:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Common sense and observation tell us that spread of the virus via coughing or sneezing is rare, if it happens at all. Epidemiological data emerging from the outbreak are not consistent with the pattern of spread seen with airborne viruses, like those that cause measles and chickenpox, or the airborne bacterium that causes tuberculosis.

Theoretically, wet and bigger droplets from a heavily infected individual, who has respiratory symptoms caused by other conditions or who vomits violently, could transmit the virus – over a short distance – to another nearby person.

This could happen when virus-laden heavy droplets are directly propelled, by coughing or sneezing (which does not mean airborne transmission) onto the mucus membranes or skin with cuts or abrasions of another person.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/06-october-2014/en/

[SidDithers]

62. globalresearch...

Sid

[Baitball Blogger]

94. Is it bad?

I'll delete it if you think it's an unreliable source. I thought they were seeking information that the mainstream media were censoring.

[SidDithers]

101. It ain't good...

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Globalresearch.ca

If there's another source, you may want to consider editing your OP.



Sid

[Baitball Blogger]

103. I went directly to WHO.

Thanks!

[Baitball Blogger]

102. I found the original WHO statements and linked to their website.

Let me know if this is still problematic.

[SidDithers]

105. Thanks...

I hate directing any traffic towards the rense / Alex Jones / globalresearch / whale.to / type conspiracy sites.

Cheers,
Sid

[Baitball Blogger]

106. Oh! Double thank you. n/t

[Warpy]

68. Still, no documented transmission

It's not an upper respiratory virus, although virus is present in saliva. Virus is present in saliva with HIV, too, but it's an incredibly inefficient way to transmit the virus.

The virus is fragile and has a very limited lifespan outside the human body. Sunlight kills it, as does UV-D. A contaminated surface would have to be freshly contaminated with blood, vomit, or diarrhea. You wouldn't want to touch it in any case.

[Baitball Blogger]

136. No argument here.

[Warpy]

137. I'm looking at the HIV model

It was theoretically possible there, too, but it has yet to happen. It scared the hell out of non medical people until they got tired of being scared.

Oral transmission occurred when both people had bleeding gums or other dental problems.

[Baitball Blogger]

138. The unease will be erased over time.

At least with Ebola we have forty years of information to work with, so we'll accept this fact sooner.

[Drahthaardogs]

99. CDC info states that saliva may or may not have a sufficient viral load

in the late stages of infection to infect other people.

It is, as of yet, not proven one way or another.

[Baitball Blogger]

100. I found the direct info from WHO.

Common sense and observation tell us that spread of the virus via coughing or sneezing is rare, if it happens at all. Epidemiological data emerging from the outbreak are not consistent with the pattern of spread seen with airborne viruses, like those that cause measles and chickenpox, or the airborne bacterium that causes tuberculosis.

Theoretically, wet and bigger droplets from a heavily infected individual, who has respiratory symptoms caused by other conditions or who vomits violently, could transmit the virus – over a short distance – to another nearby person.

This could happen when virus-laden heavy droplets are directly propelled, by coughing or sneezing (which does not mean airborne transmission) onto the mucus membranes or skin with cuts or abrasions of another person.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/06-october-2014/en/

[Warpy]

135. There is no documented case of transmission through upper respiratory fluids

Transmission has come from emesis, feces, blood, semen, breast milk, and one case of spray during the decontamination procedure. The nurse/doctor and the man using the hose were protected. The camera man was not.

As yet, sneezing is a "well, maybe, but not yet."

[ecstatic]

50. That's not entirely true. Researchers "do not know" if asymptomatic

ebola carriers are contagious. They say it's unlikely based on decades old research that covered isolated, small outbreaks. But this outbreak is obviously not small or isolated. It's unprecedented. Also, ebola is now in a new environment--the United States.

[LisaL]

54. And she was symptomatic already.

[TorchTheWitch]

133. another mistake the CDC made

They did not offer any quarantine protocols for any of the hospital workers that were in direct contact with Mr. Duncan though they have with other people with far less contact. The CDC erroneously believed that their inadequate protocol was so perfect that none of the workers would possibly become infected.

The CDC is THE authority on infectious disease, preparedness and containment. Since the CDC did not offer ANY quarantine measures for those workers that cared for Mr. Duncan there is no reason for those people to believe that they needed to take them. Though I personally wouldn't have believed that I'd been sufficiently protected while caring for Mr. Duncan and would not have traveled personally putting myself in a voluntary quarantine, I'm not the one being schooled by the CDC or accustomed to doing so.

The average health care professional is NOT schooled in BSL-4 infection since so very few in the country are. The average health care professional never comes into contact with such patients or their samples. This is the CDC's job... to provide correct information, protocols, guidelines, etc. for any infectious disease. The entire health care system including all it's workers are accustomed and directed that the CDC is THE authority and for anything they don't know to get their direction from them. That's what she did, and that's what she was SUPPOSED to do.

[B2G]

10. Duncan wasn't symptomatic

She was.

[countryjake]

91. Liberian-American Patrick Sawyer, which is who Warpy is referring to...

was so sick on July 20 during his flight from Monrovia to Lagos, that he needed to be helped off that plane. He passed out right there in the Nigerian airport and died from Ebola on July 24. His traveling companion, who helped him while he was vomiting during the flight and continued to assist him off the plane into the concourse where he collapsed, came down with the disease in August, and subsequently infected several Nigerian healthcare workers, but he, himself, recovered.

No one else on the flights he took to get from Liberia to Nigeria caught Ebola.

Patrick Sawyer's sister had died of Ebola in Liberia two weeks before he died in Nigeria.

[Warpy]

134. He sure as hell was in that apartment

after the hospital turned him away with some antibiotics and a pat on the head!

Yet none of his relatives has become ill and they're at the upper limit of the incubation period.

[boomer55]

39. explain the nbc cameraman and how he got it?

[Warpy]

60. He wasn't suited up and was taping a decontamination area.

The decontamination area was outdoors and consisted of a garden hose spraying a water and Clorox combination onto a full barrier suit. The person with the hose was also in a full barrier suit. He most likely got it from fine spray.

Moral of the story: use a telephoto lens, guys.

[TorchTheWitch]

132. The person that flew into Nigeria while ill was a diplomat in his own plane

The entire infection in Nigeria was caused by him. Because he was a wealthy diplomat he went in his personal private plane to his big spread in Nigeria where the space alone helped to contain the outbreak caused by him. Something like nine people became infected by him or it was nine or so that died.

Because he used his private plane Nigeria didn't get a massive outbreak because of him as his direct contacts were extraordinarily minimal.

He was in an Ebola ward either already showing symptoms or in the quarantine area for those people that may be infected but not yet showing symptoms. He broke out of the clinic like many others have done and left the country back to Nigeria in his private plane.

I'm going off the top of my head here from what a learned about him a day or so ago. This is discussed in this video about the outbreak in Liberia. I can't remember at what point in the video that this is discussed...

In any case, the whole video is very good.

[countryjake]

142. According to WHO, Sawyer flew on commercial flights

from Monrovia, Liberia, to Lomé, Togo, to Lagos, Nigeria. The government of Nigeria and the Togo-based carrier, ASKY Airline, tracked and monitored almost 200 passengers and the flight crews from those flights throughout the month of August.

Could you please provide a link to the info which states that Patrick Sawyer used a private plane?

[TorchTheWitch]

143. I don't know his name

Apparently, you know more than I about this. I had watched a documentary in which there was a part about some guy that was a diplomat flew on his own plane from Liberia to Nigeria and had infected others. Is Sawyer a diplomat? I don't know if we're talking about the same person or different persons. All I know is what I learned from the video and I don't recall they ever gave his name. I'll have to watch it again and find out more than I recall off the top of my head.

I did provide the link to the video, did it not show up? If not, here it is again...

[HereSince1628]

6. The US ebola cases are stretching many assumptions about believibility

Will staff under voluntary monitoring comply with travel restrictions? Apparently not.

Is the chance of further infection in a US hospital virtually NIL? Apparently not.

Do nurses have the experience with PPE they need to remain safe? Apparently not.

Collectively? It's a huge WTF!!!!!!!!!! of unbelievability.

[LisaL]

17. Will staff get on the plane and fly, while having a fever?

Yes.
She had a fever and yet she got on commercial flight and flew.

[HereSince1628]

26. Question...would that be worse than travelling on a train?

or between states on a bus?

[d_r]

32. in a way

because people on a plane can hit a hub and spread it all over more rapidly.

[HereSince1628]

46. In a city of millions, a bus or train rider can also expose myriads.

and because of the physical contact common in subways, buses it may be more likely than on an airplane.

[d_r]

130. I understand

[bklyncowgirl]

40. What about a crowded subway at rush hour?

Good thing this didn't happen in New York. I've had close physical contact with more strangers over the years than I care to think about.

No public transportation, no way, no how should be the rule.

[HereSince1628]

43. I.T. W.I.L.L. H.A.P.P.E.N. in New York city or some other major city.

[amandabeech]

49. You're not supposed to take public transportation at all.

No planes, trans, buses, subways, ferries or anything else you can think of.

[HereSince1628]

51. I would think not.

[Warpy]

36. Do hospitals provide the equipment and facilities to keep nurses safe?

That would be a no. We haven't had to deal with any other bug as infectious as this one and hospital suits have not paid attention to what is going on in west Africa, although doctors and nurses have.

I sincerely hope they will now get the gear and provide an isolation area where decontamination showers can be had. The gear that protected us against HIV and MRSA is woefully inadequate for Ebola. The hospital cost cutters are going to have to cave on this one.

We don't know why this nurse felt the need to break quarantine and travel. My guess is that it wasn't for shits and giggles. She'll probably lose her license over it even if charges aren't filed.

[LisaL]

44. We do know. Wedding planning.

[amandabeech]

53. Why she didn't call the CDC from her folks home, and have herself driven

to the hospital in the Akron/Cleveland area recommended by the CDC is also odd.

The Cleveland Clinic must have some infectious disease unit, for heaven's sake.

[Warpy]

61. Oh, FFS. That could have been handled via Skype

and should have been.

[kestrel91316]

64. She's "getting married" and traveled to Cleveland to plan her wedding and visit her mom and fiance.

It was obviously imperative that she do so in spite of the risk to all involved.

[Warpy]

70. Yeah, her license is going to be pulled, or should be

Then again, it's Texas. They might let her keep it.

[Niceguy1]

129. I doubt that will stick.

Unless she was ordered to not travel..from what I hear she wasnt.

[snagglepuss]

119. This reminds me of Katrina's aftermath.

[Iggo]

8. Totally believable.

People do stupid shit all day.

Where ya been?

[npk]

22. Of course

But one might have a little more faith that a nurse who has just been treating a man for Ebola, a Man who incidentally recently died of the disease, would use slightly better judgement than the average person. This is why police offices have to lock people n the homes for mandatory quarantined. Why the national guard has to restrict peoples movements. So the next time people complain about their rights being taken away, they might have a little better understanding of why it's happening.

[JI7]

11. since people are not following what they should in terms of movement/travel

what should be done ?

the same thing happened with that doctor working for nbc or some other news. didn't duncan's family not follow it either. and now this.

[B2G]

19. We have a no-fly list for a reason.

Put them on it until the quarantine period is over.

It's not that hard to do.

[ecstatic]

12. Was she told not to fly?

Has that been confirmed. I just heard Friedman say that she should not have flown, not that she was specifically told not to.

That being said, if her departing flight was after Pham's diagnosis, she shouldn't have flown, regardless of what they told her. At the same time, the CDC shouldn't assume that potential infected will act responsibly. What a mess!

[LisaL]

13. The departing flight back to Dallas was after diagnosis, and she already had a fever when she flew.

Which is absolutely ridiculous.
How could she not know better?

[In_The_Wind]

27. She shouldn't have exposed others. Perhaps her mistaken choice was due to being sick.

[LisaL]

33. I don't follow.

Her mistaken choice was due to being sick?
She shouldn't have been flying to begin with, let alone with a fever.

[In_The_Wind]

48. I agree she shouldn't have flown the first time.

Clearly she wasn't thinking correctly when she took the return flight. I'm suggesting that having a fever might have prevented her from thinking things through.

[LisaL]

55. It was a low grade fever.

So that excuse doesn't fly.

[Autumn]

35. Maybe her wedding planning was more important than the fear of spreading a deadly disease.

Of course she had to have known better.

[JI7]

24. it's clear that health care workers are not that informed or getting the training they need

i'm not a health care worker but if someone who had been to a country with ebola came to the hospital i would suspect ebola could be possible right away.

and i don't think i would need training to know that i should not fly and limit my contact until a certain period of time after treating someone with ebola.

[npk]

28. Yes CDC ordered all staff at the Texas medial center to avoid flying and public transprtation.

All of the nurses and personnel who treated Duncan were told specifically not to fly, regardless of whether they were symptomatic. They were to be self-monitoring for 21 days and avoid large crowds of people.

[LisaL]

31. Where did you see that?

[npk]

47. Here is one link, but it's been all over the news for weeks

http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2014/10/dallas_ebola_patient_should_no.html

CDC has said time and again that these people should not be getting on airplanes or using public transportation and that their movements should be "controlled" and private charters should be used instead of commercial flights.

[HereSince1628]

67. Looks to me like she complied...

The cdc knew within 21 days that she had used public transportation.

What?

[LisaL]

69. It also says it's unclear if woman even knew of these requirements.

Did anybody tell these nurses they shouldn't be flying all over the country?

[npk]

75. The protocol is in every hospital in the US

Any person exposed to an infectious disease is not supposed to fly. This was only enhanced protocol after the first case of Ebola here in US was confirmed. She along with all the other nurse were, again according to the info that the CDC has given, were to be adhering to self voluntary quarantine and they were given proper guidelines for travel.

Now the people that have possibly been exposed is much larger and it may lead to involuntary quarantine should these cases continue to spread.

Regardless she knew she had a fever and flew back to Dallas anyway. She was very careless in her actions and considering how deadly this disease is and her first hand knowledge of its mortality, she should have known better

[LisaL]

84. I am not arguing that she wasn't carelles.

But did anybody actually tell them to not fly?
Because expecting people should have known something and people knowing something is not one and the same.
What were they told of what they should be doing while self-monitoring?

[npk]

89. Yes CDC told them not to fly

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/breaking-news/texas-ebola-patient-headed-to-emory/nhjsK/

Near bottom of the page at the link.

[LisaL]

97. That link again says they were supposed to not have been traveling.

Doesn't say they were instructed on it.
Because they certainly complained they didn't know the protocols, etc.

[Tweedy]

96. Protocols should be known

When there is a protocol, health care workers must follow it. Otherwise, we must reinvent the wheel each and every time. This hospital is a mess. If we had an epidemic, hospitals must follow protocol, because there are not enough people working for the cdc to tell everyone their jobs.

[LisaL]

98. They should have, but they weren't necessarily.

I am very curious as to what they were instructed to do and not to do.

[Tweedy]

118. Hospital's job

I agree with you. Yet, we need our hospitals to actually read protocols and inform their employees.

[ecstatic]

115. Judge Jenkins is now saying that the hospital was not instructed by the CDC

to tell the workers not to fly. Again, it's something you'd think the hospital, as well as affected staff, would already know.

[ecstatic]

34. Thanks. So hanging around small crowds is OK? nt

[npk]

52. She was suposed to be controlling her movements and avoiding people.

She was told to use "voluntary quarantine", much like the NBC reporter was. But again people can't follow instructions.

[Louisiana1976]

41. How could that nurse have been that stupid? She must have thought being told not to fly didn't

apply to her.

[kestrel91316]

66. She's getting married and had to plan her wedding with MOM.

[LisaL]

74. That mom reportedly flew to Dallas.

Where is mom now?
Is she flying to Atlanta?
Why is mom flying all over the place?

[Ms. Toad]

82. Anything I have seen says that she "should not have" flown

not that she was told she should not have flown.

[npk]

87. They were told not fly according to link

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/breaking-news/texas-ebola-patient-headed-to-emory/nhjsK/

Now if you distrust the CDC that is another issue, but according to everything I have read and heard they were told not to fly.

[Ms. Toad]

92. No it doesn't.

The latest Texas nurse infected with the virus had a temperature of 99.5 degrees before she boarded a plane headed from Cleveland to Dallas, the CDC reported. All health care workers who came into contact with the Liberian patient, Thomas Eric Duncan, in Dallas were supposed to be self-monitoring themselves for signs of the disease, including fever. Ebola is only contagious after an infected person begins showing symptoms.

None of the workers were supposed to take any form of public transportation, including airplanes, while being monitored. It can take up to 21 days for someone infected with Ebola to begin showing symptoms. The first symptoms include sudden onset of fever, fatigue, muscle pain, headache and sore throat, according to the World Health Organization.

That expresses the theory - what it doesn't say, and what none of the quotes I have heard or read say, is that she was actually told she was not supposed to take any form of public transportion. Theoretical protocols - and being told what those theoretical protocols are are two different things. I've written enough weaselly public statements, designed to convince listeners that what should have happened, did happen, to recognize what they are not saying - no one has yet confirmed that she was actually informed she was not to take public transportation.

[Kalidurga]

45. there are things beyond my comprehension

this is one of them. I have a really long list. It's full of things on this level of I don't get it.

[tularetom]

57. How long will it be until Kevin Bacon is exposed?

[KamaAina]

109. DUzy!!

[kestrel91316]

59. But nurses are perfect in all they do and are incapable of doing anything so FUCKING STUPID.

So say a number of DUers.

[LisaL]

65. On the other hand, CDC is perfect.

Was this woman actually instructed not to fly?

[Darb]

79. Not sure, but she did fly back with a fever, so......

not such a good idea. I would expect her to call her superiors and say she had a fever and ask what exactly to do next. Then wait for the cavalry. Go to the airport and fly home? She should have known better I would say.

[LisaL]

85. She should have called 911 in Cleveland.

Told them she was in direct contact with an Ebola patient and had a fever.
Cleveland has very good medical system.
They could have held her in isolation until she was transported to Emory on a private plane.
Instead she got on commercial airliner.
I find that disgusting.

[LanternWaste]

131. I think the same number of DUers believe the corollary...

I think the same number of DUers believe the corollary, also...




Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[liberalhistorian]

71. "Told not to fly"?

Why wasn't she quarantined and refused permission to fly in the first damned place? People like her infuriate me. Selfish, self-absorbed, thoughtless, thinking they know better, thinking only of themselves first and to hell with their affect on others as long as they get what they want. Kinda reminds me of anti-vaxxers, frankly. And she was a NURSE, for Christ's sake, she should damn well have known better.

If she survives, she should be criminally prosecuted, frankly.

[AngryAmish]

104. EbolaBridezilla

[liberalhistorian]

125. What

the hell does that mean?

[hedgehog]

72. Perhaps airlines could help by refunding tickets for people who shouldn't fly?

The lowest price I found on Kayak was $305 round trip. Figure the nurse's take home is about $25 an hour

http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/dallas-registered-nurse-salary-SRCH_IL.0,6_IM218_KO7,23.htm

that's a day and a half's pay.

By the way, prayers and hopes go out for her full recovery.

[LostInAnomie]

83. If a sum of $305 is all it takes to cause for her to risk the health...

... of others after being exposed to a highly infectious and highly deadly disease, she is a total sack of shit.

[etherealtruth]

76. I am at a loss how a health care professional (BSN, ADN ????) ....

.... could think this was a "good idea" .... t doesn't matter if she was told NOT to do this ... this is something her knowledge (through her education) would have told her ....?

[Catherine Vincent]

77. What a disappointment

This woman didn't think at all.

[LisaL]

110. You are a little late to the party.

The one who flew is a different nurse.

[valerief]

112. I AM late. Thanks for the update.

[MoonRiver]

113. So selfish. Just disgusting.

[Ilsa]

114. CBS is reporting that she called the CDC before flying.

Keep in mind that "99.5" isn't considered to be a full-blown fever. CBS reports that the CDC told her that she was okay to fly because she didn't have a full blown fever (usually considered over 100°). They said she called the CDC more than once.

[snagglepuss]

120. This is effing unbelievable. I am utterly shocked of CDCs carefree attitude

I don't know if carefree is the word I'm looking for but I am rendered speechless. Have they never effing heard of erring on the side of caution?

[Ilsa]

121. Here's the thread with link info:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025671132

[LisaL]

122. If that is true, that's mind boggling.

CDC director claimed she shouldn't have been flying at all.
Let alone with the fever.

[Ilsa]

123. thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025671132

[Ilsa]

127. It's being covered on CBS and now CNN.

Friedman didn't deny she called; he just said she shouldn't have flown.

Sanjay Gupta says on cnn right now that her calls to the CDC have been verified through "government officials". She was given no guidance. (But she should have known better.)
She would not have been allowed to fly in Liberia.

[LisaL]

128. She wasn't told not to fly.

It's the opposite. CDC confirmed they allowed her to go on her trip and then to fly back when she developed a fever.

[arthritisR_US]

141. That is my understanding as well. nt