As someone who bikes everywhere, I think this is the most annoying thing I encounter.

[F4lconF16]

Something my school sent out as part of a transportation awareness campaign.

"I saw that a bike was waiting at a stop sign to cross the busy street I was driving on, so I stopped and gestured for the bike to go. The bicyclist just gave me a sour look and waved me on. What gives? I was trying to be nice."

Every road user wants predictability from other road users. That person bicycling was waiting for a natural gap in traffic to cross, just as any other vehicle on the road would. When you stopped, even though the law would have you proceed, you made the situation less predictable. Sure, you stopped, but what about traffic coming the other way? What about cars behind you, who might choose to speed around you? When you stop, it creates pressure on the person bicycling to cross at a time not of their choosing if they don’t, they are now holding up traffic.

Less experienced bicyclists may cross under this pressure without a full awareness of the risks involved with this unpredictable situation. Stop when the law requires you to stop or yield in order to drive predictably around pedestrians and bicyclists. However, when bikes are in motion, you should always be prepared to stop if they don’t. You should also be prepared to stop for people trying to cross at a marked or unmarked crosswalk, including people on bikes.

Please, drivers, if you have the right of way, KEEP GOING. It makes it so much easier on us when you do.

[postulater]

1. I wish bikers would follow the rules too.

In my neighborhood they don't even stop at the stop signs, they just blow right on through.

Sometimes ten or twenty at a time.

[sakabatou]

28. I'm a biker and I wish they did too.

[joeglow3]

70. Which is why I am hesitant to take my right of way

Better cautious than sorry.

[LWolf]

46. I just want them to stay in the bike lane,

instead of drifting out into my lane so that they can travel side-by-side and chat.

[840high]

51. I encounter same thing where

I live.

[kestrel91316]

53. In Los Angeles at EVERY SINGLE LIGHT, every single day,

24/7/365, all you have to do is open your eyes and pay a tiny bit of attention and you will see that during every single freaking cycle of the light AT LEAST 5 cars run a red light.

Probably tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of cars running red lights in this city alone EVERY FREAKING DAY.

I can't remember the last time I saw a cyclist run a red light here.

So who's the menace to society? Cars or bikes?

[GummyBearz]

56. Heres my thing..

I agree with you on drivers running red lights in LA.

What is even more dangerous to me, as a driver, is the cyclist that is going the wrong direction through an intersection when I am making an unprotected left. I am there waiting for a break in traffic from the other direction, I get such a break and initiate my left hand turn only to have a cyclist come from behind me on the other side of the street, going the opposite direction of how should traffic flow, and nearly end up running the guy over.

I really dont want to get a manslaughter charge because they feel they can go any direction they want on the street. And I also don't want to slam on the breaks in the middle of an intersection during an un-protected left hand turn and get T-boned by someone who actually has a green light.

The other thing that is dangerous that I see every day is while walking on the sidewalk with my wife, a cyclist comes barreling down on us from behind, when there is a damn big bike lane just 2 feet to the side. I have had to fight someone who smashed into an old girlfriend like that while we were walking on the sidewalk.

[kestrel91316]

57. Cyclists going the wrong way, while boneheaded and completely

illegal, is very uncommon, once again, compared to the extremely frequent cars running red lights. And I didn't even begin to get into the hundreds of OTHER ways they threaten my life daily as I obey the law on my bike.

Remove the log in your own eye, drivers, before presuming to remove the speck from mine.

[GummyBearz]

58. Thanks

I applaud you for obeying the rule of the road when you cycle. Believe me I really appreciate it. From my experience you are in the vast minority of bicyclists.

5 drivers getting through the intersection at the last second is quite annoying, but percentage wise in my experience, bicyclists break way way way more traffic laws

[FSogol]

60. Going the wrong way? How do you know what way they are going?

[Mariana]

62. I made a similar observation downthread.

How many of these people do you ever see fly into a rage about drivers who break traffic laws?

[postulater]

67. Who's the menace? In your neighborhood, it sounds like it is more cars than bikes.

Where I live I rarely see cars going through red lights (we only have one in my town) or stop signs for that matter. And even when I go into the city, it is rare for cars to run red lights.

In neither case is failing to stop OK.

[kestrel91316]

83. How many people (other than themselves) does the average bicyclist running a

light or stop sign kill?

Because, frankly, if they do it and no cars are near AND no one is harmed, it's no worse than the "California stop" which we ALL do in states with right turn on red light. Technically illegal, but in many cases completely harmless.

Cars, OTOH, driving right through red lights or stop signs (not making sloppy right turns) DO kill many, many people every year.

But you just keep up with pretending that the two situations are remotely comparable.

[postulater]

86. Like I said, the 'average' bicyclist in my neighborhood

Does run stop signs. The 'average' car doesn't.

I didn't equate the danger, just my observation.

Your neighborhood is obviously different.

I'd move.

[hfojvt]

89. in my neighborhood

I, myself, run stop signs all the time

And nobody drowns and nobody dies and nobody's hurt and nobody cries.

No other traffic even needs to stop, because it is not there.

A sensible bicyclist does not want to make a car have to stop - because then your safety depends on them. And if they don't stop, you are in a world of hurt.

[AZ Progressive]

72. As someone who has been to L.A. a lot, that's quite a bit of an exxageration

Yes there are people that try to beat the light, and it's mostly people trying to make a left turn on a signal light with no arrow, but it's not often that it's a true red light runner, plus it's expected that you look before you cross when a light goes green. There are not at least 5 cars that run a red light in L.A.

[kestrel91316]

84. Oh yes there are. I have lived here for 31 years and it has gotten REALLY

dangerous out there. I have made a point of watching and counting when I am on foot waiting for the pedestrian signal. I'm not exaggerating.

Half this town is in a hurry because they have an overinflated sense of their own importance and expect everyone else to get out of their way.

Oh and the hit-and-run bike and pedestrian fatalities are epidemic, too.

[mythology]

87. Living in the Boston area

I see both cars and bike running red lights and barreling through cross walks as though the red light or the cross walk isn't there.

As somebody who both bikes and drives, both groups, and pedestrians need to pay a shit ton more attention.

[VScott]

74. Which one are you referring to ?

[IMG][/IMG]

[postulater]

79. Ooops, sorry, it's the bicyclists that ignore the rule of the stop sign here.

The bikers are the good guys, they stop.

[CreekDog]

77. if there's no traffic I don't see the need for a non motorized vehicle, nor pedestrian to stop

the laws may agree with this in many places.

[postulater]

80. I wouldn't argue about the 'no traffic'situation. They should just go with whatever the law is.

Of course I don't see them if there is 'no traffic' since I AM the traffic in my car.

It just seems like quite an assumption for a bicyclist to make that there isn't any traffic when they are travelling at 20 mph and a dozen of them blow through a stop sign I am approaching and they turn right in front of me. It happens.

[Dorian Gray]

81. Do you live in Brooklyn?

Bc that happens here all the time. I've taught my (4 year old) to be careful when crossing the street. But she can't just follow the lights because the bicycles shoot through in their bike lane regardless of whether they have the green light or not.

Frustrating. I'm glad people are riding bikes and thinking about our environment. But I also wish they would follow the rules of the road.

[postulater]

82. Ha, Brooklyn is like that too?

No, a Milwaukee suburb.

One stop light. Lots of stop signs.

It's very bike and pedestrian friendly. But the bike racers come in packs and blow through like they're being chased by dogs or something. The neighborhood bikers are not a problem.

[Dorian Gray]

93. I think many places

are becoming like that now.

[flvegan]

2. In some places, that driver could be liable if something happened.

Waving through can be construed as offering/guaranteeing safe passage.

[NYC_SKP]

3. I don't bike much but I walk several times daily and this makes me crazy!

Even though I have the right of way, I can stop on a dime and I'm not in a hurry.

So I stop and let cars go, I do NOT want them to stop or even to wait if I can help it.

Sometimes I even spin 180 and walk away from the intersection because I KNOW they're gonna get into some "go ahead" think and I just don't want to engage.

I'm happy to yield to the monster metal gas burning beasts..

...

[DLnyc]

10. Yes, very annoying when cars stop in the middle of nowhere.

Cars going the opposite way won't necessarily be stopping and it makes a very complicated situation. Cars should stop at stop signs, stop lights and crosswalks, but it is not helpful when a car stops in the middle of nowhere.

[Jim Lane]

29. As a pedestrian, I don't think this is always true.

I sometimes have to cross a busy two-way street at an intersection with no traffic light (the nearest light is about half a mile away). At rush hour, if all the drivers followed your advice, I could be standing there for an hour waiting for the chance to get across.

What I do is to hang back from the curb, so that no one will be tempted to stop, until I see that one direction is free of traffic. Then I step forward and look expectantly in the other direction. Quite often, one of those drivers will stop and wave me across -- for which I'm grateful.

[NYC_SKP]

30. Where I live, any thoroughfares that large have controlled crossings.

My experience is in residential neighborhoods where there are two lanes of traffic, one in each direction, or simple residential streets.

It's pretty uncommon that I encounter the problem, but it's a bit annoying when people assume that if I'm standing at a corner I must want to cross in front of them so they sit there, which really just impedes the progress of both of us.

I know they're being kind but when I wave them "go ahead", half the time they wave me back, "go ahead", and it's just silly.

Big routes, these are uncrossable when there's lots of traffic, or I have to use crosswalks with lights.

Either way, I still try to get in my 12,000 FitBit steps, at least 10,000 daily.

[scarystuffyo]

4. I hate it when they ride two abreast

and think cars should weave into the other lane to get by them.

I see that way too often

[Capt.Rocky300]

6. It's rude and inconsiderate..........

and gives all cyclists a bad name. Even those who do their best to obey the laws and be good ambassadors for the sport.

[Thor_MN]

8. Cyclists have every right to occupy a traffic lane.

when there is not enough room to ride safely on the shoulder. They should give way as often as possible to not build up a backlog of cars behind them, but the have as much right to the road as a car.

A lot of people think bikes should use the sidewalk, but that is the last thing they should do. Drivers of cars do not see bikes on the sidewalk.

I know, I was hit by a car while riding on the sidewalk. It was the absolute mildest car v. bike that could be imagined, it only bent the rear wheel and I didn't even fall off the bike. I swear that I had made eye contact with the driver and we both nodded to acknowledge that he could not go due to traffic along the street I was riding along side of and that I would cross in front of him. At the last second, just before my rear wheel cleared his front bumper, he inched forward and tapped my rear wheel.

Bikes ride on the street, with traffic and follow all the traffic laws. Those that don't follow the laws are idiots and should be shamed for breaking them. Predictability, as the OP says is best.

[Maedhros]

16. I have no problem with bicyclists using the traffic lane, provided they are riding at a decent clip.

Here in Portland, we are plagued with a huge number of cyclists who do one (or ALL ) of the following:

1. Ride at night with dark clothing and no light.
2. Ride against traffic.
3. Ride on the sidewalk.
4. Ride through crosswalks.
5. Ignore lights or stop signs.

As a person who used to ride a bike as my primary mode of transportation, I have no patience for these people. Riding a bike is operating a vehicle, and vehicles do not belong on sidewalks, in crosswalks or moving against traffic. Period.

[Thor_MN]

17. 100% agree.

[F4lconF16]

18. Portland and Seattle are pretty bad for this.

I think that enough people cycle and there's enough "support" (bike lanes, sharrows, etc) that people start treating the roads as if there were no cars. In other cities, it's a dangerous enough experience to make people cautious. Of course, we could solve the problem by getting 60%+ of the population to use a bike as their primary form of transport. I think you'd see people becoming more aware of the laws.

100% agree with you, though. Riding a bike is the same as operating a vehicle. The laws need to be followed--I make it a point to come to a complete stop at stop signs if anyone else is around, and I never roll through at more than a mile an hour or so. It drives me nuts when I see a police car go after the guy who's doing 6mph over and not the biker that blew through the red light.

Also, about the riding in the dark: if you have to, you need a light. Period. There are no ifs, ands, or buts. You have to be seen. I think it should be legally required if you're ridiing in the road, actually. No other vehicle could get away with being invisible. (Of course, I say this after I get back from the store, riding without a light because mine is broken and I haven't fixed it yet )

[AngryOldDem]

44. Saw a guy the other day with a blinking refector on the back of his helmet.

VERY cool -- could see him clearly a block away.

That advice works for anyone who's out before sunup -- walkers, runners, cyclists -- wear reflective clothing, not just on your shoes or the pant legs. Be as visible as possible. In the winter I leave for work long before dawn and I have often seen lots of running groups wearing all black. You don't see them until they're right on you.

[Arugula Latte]

63. Yes. We have some narrow-but-busy and also not well-lit major streets in our

part of Portland and I'm always amazed by how many people ride along the shoulder at dusk or night with no light, no helmet. They are prime candidates for being hit from behind.

[VScott]

75. So, what they say is true then?

[AngryOldDem]

42. That's it, in a nutshell.

One thing I see that's not on your list are those who ride two abreast.

Bicycles are vehicles, and need to obey same rules of the road as cars. I see all of the above on a daily basis -- several times on a daily basis, with bicyclists seemingly totally ignorant of the danger they're causing themselves, and others.

That's why I really can't do what the OP wants. I see FAR too many bikes run red lights and stop signs (even when cars are stopped) -- they don't slow down. Even though **I** may have the right of way, I don't begin to cross the intersection until I'm totally sure the cyclist is either going to stop, or (per usual) obliviously blow through.

[Maedhros]

65. I have to admit that I'm biased in this regard.

Last summer I was victim of a hit-and-run by a bicyclist (at least, that's what the responding officer said).

I was driving home at about 11:00 pm through the SE warehouse district in Portland. I wasn't speeding or under the influence of anything. A young woman was dressed in dark clothing, with no light, riding in the wrong lane. She ran a stop sign and hit my car, then fled the scene before police could arrive. My guess is that she was under the influence of one or more narcotics, because she was able to walk away after being bounced 20 feet. Because she fled, and was on a bike, the accident was judged to be my fault and my insurance premium more than doubled.

Ever since then I've been hyper-aware of foolish bicyclists, and there are very many.

[hlthe2b]

50. Thank you, Especially for commenting on cyclists riding on sidewalks, instead of the designated lane

I cycle occasionally, but I walk constantly--6-8 miles a day, with my dog. I use pedestrian crossings and stick to routes with sidewalks. My routes are likewise frequented by elderly and quite a few with physical disabilities. Yet, the sidewalks have become a high speed "alternate" for fully helmeted cyclists, who do not slow down, come within inches of hitting pedestrians, don't use horns or even vocalize to let pedestrians know they are coming and don't even bother to stop when they frighten an elderly person enough to fall.

These aren't young children, but adult, able bodied adult riders, who simply don't wish to share the road with cars--even while this route is a wide low to moderate trafficed boulevard with a similarly wide and well marked bike lane.

I don't know how to stop this, but it infuriates me. ALmost as much as cars that refuse to acknowledge and yield right of way to pedestrians in crosswalks with lit crossing lights.

[bhikkhu]

15. I ride two abreast in groups all the time

as people like to be able to chat while riding socially - it makes it much nicer, and its perfectly legal.

But, with that said, we can usually hear a car coming behind us fairly easily and single-file to the shoulder to let them by. If its a group ride a rider at the back will usually yell "car back!" and everyone will move over. If a car is impatient and wants to weave into the other lane, legally they can do that too if they like, most places.

When I'm driving myself I'd rather chill a bit than go weaving and speeding around, but that's my own preference - safety first, in all cases.

[Purveyor]

27. It is NOT 'perfectly legal' in Michigan. Statue maintains that the bicyclist

shall ride, in single file as close to the right-hand side of the road as safety possible.

Perhaps your local laws differ.

[bhikkhu]

34. Oregon is a "share the road" state

and bicycles follow the same rules and have the same rights as cars. Sometimes "taking the lane" is the best option even for a solo rider where there really isn't room to safely let a vehicle by. Plenty of people are in a great hurry here, but its not that hard to relax a bit and drive safely, and ride safely, and share the road well enough. Most of the roads I ride on have no shoulder, so there's not much of an option, but I've gone over 100k miles on my bikes over the years without a single altercation.

With that said, the most dangerous situation for a cyclist to be in is when a vehicle comes up from behind and thinks he owns the road. I can hear a car coming from some distance, but without eyes in the back of my head, I have to trust them to be safe and responsible. If a driver has to slow down and make sure its safe to pass it might cost him a few seconds of travel time, but then we all live safely for another day.

[Major Nikon]

38. Which means there's plenty of exceptions which allow a cyclist to take the entire lane

Staying as far to the right as possible is generally the least safe place a cyclist can ride for many reasons and even the law in Michigan grants exceptions for those reasons.

[Gormy Cuss]

55. It's legal to ride two abreast in Michigan

Sec. 257.660b is the vehicle code reference. Three abreast is illegal on a public road, two is not.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%2800ekkemcvpzrt1q143jb4fvd%29/documents/mcl/pdf/mcl-300-1949-VI-OPERATION-OF-BICYCLES-MOTORCYCLES-AND-TOY-VEHICLES.pdf


eta: I don't think riding two abreast is smart most of the time and I never do it.

[Purveyor]

66. Sec. 257.660a conflicts with 257.660b. How can one ride as close to the curb

as possible if riding 2 abreast.

Leave it to Michigan to be as clear as mud.

[Gormy Cuss]

76. 257.660a (c)

257.660a
Operation of bicycle upon highway or street; riding close to right-hand curb or
edge of roadway; exceptions.
Sec. 660a.
A person operating a bicycle upon a highway or street at less than the existing speed of traffic
shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except as follows:
(a) When overtaking and passing another bicycle or any other vehicle proceeding in the same direction.
(b) When preparing to turn left.
(c) When conditions make the right-hand edge of the roadway unsafe or reasonably unusable by bicycles,
including, but not limited to, surface hazards, an uneven roadway surface, drain openings, debris, parked or
moving vehicles or bicycles, pedestrians, animals, or other obstacles....

That seems to cover it but I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on DU.

[AngryOldDem]

45. No problems with you...It's those who are totally oblivious to cars that get me upset.

This summer, after turning on to a relatively busy two lane road after pulling out from a car park, I noticed that traffic was slowing down much more than usual (this was rush hour). I got around the first curve and saw why: Two bikers riding abreast, taking up almost the whole lane. People were passing, which was dangerous because head-ons could have easily happened. When I finally passed them they both lost in their own little worlds or conversations to care that they were being traffic hazards. There was a roundabout coming up and I'm glad I was shed of THAT before they made it up there.

[Capt.Rocky300]

5. A lot of misunderstanding out there.........

Many cyclists ignore traffic laws thinking they don't apply to them. Many drivers don't realize they must legally share the road with cyclists (at least in the State of Washington) and afford them the same right of way as any motor vehicle.

[tammywammy]

11. Lately they've been installing signs and town

That have a bike and say they have the right for full lane use.

[Capt.Rocky300]

13. That's a move in the right direction Tammy.........

All that is needed is a little education. Of course, people have to be willing to learn. Cyclists and drivers alike.

[Archae]

7. It's the kids.

They are the ones I see most often going the wrong way, on sidewalks and off, blowing through red lights/stop signs, the works.

Just last week one came very close to running straight into me on my own bicycle, never stopped, or even slowed down.

[gratuitous]

9. A lot of competition for "most" annoying

But it's surely very annoying. On my daily commute, I ride a multi-use path to cross a very busy street, four lanes and a left turn median. There's a crossing light, which pedestrians and cyclists can activate with a button. I cross this street twice a day every day, nearly 500 times a year. I always wait for the light, even those mornings when traffic is light to non-existent. I can't tell you how many times a motorist has STOPPED for the green light to wave me across four lanes (which may or may not be occupied by other motorists who may or may not stop). I've waved the knuckleheads through every time, sometimes quite animatedly. I've seen two rear-end collisions because someone stopped for a green light, and a lot of close calls.

Motorists: Don't stop at a green light. Please.

[bhikkhu]

12. Agree - that's what I do too

In some cases I've waited to cross a road or timed the gaps, and a car has stopped to let me by, I wind around behind the car that's stopped if waving them on doesn't work. Its always safer to be behind a car in the road than in front of a car in the road, regardless of what the driver might think. We have several road crossings on our local bike path where drivers have the right of way, and cyclists wait for a gap. Traffic is light in town, so its no big deal.

Usually it works best if they don't see me at all, as that's what I assume to be the case. It makes their actions more predictable and it makes things safer for me. If I have the right-of-way its another story, of course - I'll always take my right-of-way, but always be ready to quickly give it up if a driver doesn't yield.

[F4lconF16]

25. Invisibility has it's rare advantages.

"Usually it works best if they don't see me at all, as that's what I assume to be the case. It makes their actions more predictable and it makes things safer for me."

Exactly. One of the reasons I don't mind riding without a light (note: always, always ride with a light--I only do this when mine is broken) is that since I'm constantly checking my surroundings, I can see the car coming from a long way off and move over or "hide". They go by me without issue, whereas when they see me they tend to do stupid things.

[IDemo]

14. I haven't ridden in a few years, but

broken glass in the bike lane was pretty much the worst for me.

This is Idaho, the place with bike laws people either love or hate, depending on whether you're on two wheels or four. Stop signs basically equate to yield signs, and red lights to stop signs. I generally waited for a green light at signals, but often 'ran' stop signs if the path was obviously clear.

[Logical]

20. I see the run stop signs and stoplights all the time. Flat out rude. Nt

[F4lconF16]

23. Not rude at all.

I'd call it stupid and dangerous, myself.

[Logical]

24. Good one! 😄

[bhikkhu]

36. I don't run red lights ever

but I follow the same rules as most cars around here when it comes to stop signs, which is to come to something less than a complete stop. I hate to see anybody run a red light, but I do see both cars and cyclists do it on occasion. By volume, more cars, but by percentage, more cyclists.

When I grew up learning to ride was the norm and we grew up getting around by bike and learned all the rules. There was a class or two in grade school on bicycle safety (70's in California). I suspect that there is a younger generation that never learned or took it seriously, raised by parents who never learned themselves.

[IDemo]

43. I agree it's rude when used incorrectly

That is - when there is traffic present in the cross lane. The point is, if you read the actual code, it doesn't give the rider the unconditional right to blow through stop signs without the assurance of a clear path. Not rude at all when following the intent of the law (assuming you're in Idaho, anyway).

[Gormy Cuss]

61. In Idaho though it's the law.

It's even called an "Idaho stop." Bicyclists can treat Stop signs as Yields, Red Lights as Stop Signs.

[Logical]

19. I have a suggestion for bikers. Stop at all stop signs and stoplights. Nt

[Major Nikon]

40. Can I have the first 10 seconds or so like cars do?

[Mariana]

52. Come on now. Drivers of cars don't break traffic laws.

And even if they do, no one flies into a rage over it, like they do when they see people on bicycles break traffic laws.

I swear, on these threads, you'd think drivers of cars NEVER EVER broke any traffic laws anywhere.

[Gormy Cuss]

59. ^^^This.

And since few here are addressing the OP point, I realize that drivers are trying to be nice to me by ceding their right of way but when it's a four way stop I'd rather they take their turn so that no one has to guess who's moving through the intersection next.

[Major Nikon]

68. Not to mention....

The cyclists aren't really endangering anyone else when they break traffic laws. So yeah, the disproportionate outrage seems a bit perplexing.

[Recursion]

91. Never been hit by a car as a pedestrian. Been hit three times by bikers who can't be bothered

to stop.

Including one time that broke a rib.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

69. you should make this universal advice esp for the state of NJ. nt

[AndyTiedye]

21. While Some Bicyclists Wave Drivers By Them into the Path of Oncoming Cars

I bike AND drive on these roads, and I don't get why they do it, but some bicyclists are so eager to get a following car to pass them that they will wave them to pass even though there is a car coming the other way.

[F4lconF16]

22. Some of that may be misunderstanding.

The bicyclist may not have seen the other car (though they should), or they think there's enough room because they're on the shoulder, or things like that. Admittedly there are plenty of idiots out there, so there's that, but I know that I've been the one waving them past before when I thought there was room and there wasn't. At least it's only a wave. Worst that happens is you don't pass.

[ffr]

26. Ha! That was me looking back at them with the sour face. Keep moving please.

Whether I'm a pedestrian walking through a parking lot, attempting to cross a street or on a bicycle it wouldn't matter. The disservice is when the vehicle that has the right of way yields that right of way, presenting a dangerous situation for everyone involved. Whereas had they proceeded unabated, they'd have been over the horizon and I wouldn't be pressured to cross when it's not safe.

Thanks, really. But no thanks.

[WinkyDink]

31. I love this OP! I HATE when car drivers just stop to let another car (bike, pedestrian) "go ahead."

[gristy]

32. I walk to work every day and get the same thing at a couple crosswalks

These are a couple crosswalks where there is no light. I always like to wait for a break in traffic for the same reasons this writer gives. To discourage drivers from stopping for me, I have to make sure I am nowhere near the curb and I also avoid facing the traffic that is coming towards me. I look at it out of the corner of my eye. If somehow I don't do all this - if I'm near the curb and if I'm looking at traffic, someone soon enough will start to stop. I'll start waving them on - to keep them going. I don't want to be the cause of a rear-ender.

[defacto7]

33. It's not only about bikers

but about traffic in general.

Do gooders on the road usually don't do anyone any good. Being a do gooder is not the same as driving responsibly, it's the opposite. It's about forcing others to be helped against their own judgment. All they're really doing is obstructing traffic, forcing people to do dangerous things, thinking for other drivers/bikers/people in general, pretending to be able to see what others see, and generally making everyone on the road around them guess why they are being erratic.

Follow right of way protocol and let other people do their own walking, driving, biking expecting others to do the same while at the same time being aware they may not. Traffic rules and guidelines work.

[F4lconF16]

37. +1

Excellent points, thank you.

[Whiskeytide]

35. 80% of my biking is on trails, so...

I minimize contact with cars (people with dogs, another story). I also ride back streets, parking lots and behind shopping centers as much as i can.

I always assume drivers can't see me, aren't looking for me, would hit me even if they did see me, and can generally be counted on to dumb and unpredictable things. Its defensive "biking" on steriods. Bicyclists may have lots of "rights", but that's cold comfort when they're peeling you out of the grill of an F-150.

[F4lconF16]

39. Bike trails or mountain trails?

Because if it's the latter, I am very jealous. I love the downhill in the mud.

Assuming drivers can't see you is a very good thing. I also tend to assume worst case scenarios and try to constantly keep the car's location in my head behind me. I also refuse to listen to music on my bike--audio cues have saved me from a hospital trip at least twice.

Bicyclists may have lots of "rights", but that's cold comfort when they're peeling you out of the grill of an F-150.

As my mother says, it's better for you to be wrong and alive then right and dead.

[Whiskeytide]

49. Bike trails...

No mountains on the Gulf Coast. But we got some nice beaches in the trade. And real Mtn biking is a younger man's activity anyway. But I agree no radio. You have to be able hear.

[Major Nikon]

41. By far the most dangerous places are intersections

There are many hazards for cyclists on so-called "bike trails". There's really no such thing or at least they are extremely rare. At best they are "multi-use" trails, which means you have the kids on trikes and people who have 50' dog leashes stretched across them. Inevitably they cross roadways and put you in places that drivers don't expect you to be. Parking lots are also quite dangerous for cyclists for the same reason.

Regardless of where you ride there are hazards and the key is to knowing what the most dangerous of them are and how to mitigate them. This is true regardless of whether you are riding a bike or inside the cold comfort of a thin metal cage around you.

[Whiskeytide]

48. "Regardless of where you ride there are hazards..."

Agreed. I ride early in the morning, so the parking lots are empty. I can get to the bike trails by keeping to a couple of quiet subdivisions and parking lot hopping so that I only cross 5 streets where I expect to see a car.

The alternative is about 3 miles on a busy 4 lane main artery with no shoulder and angry republicans behind the wheels of the car. I could use the street, but I think the life and death struggle would take the fun out of it.

And yes - the trails are quite dangerous. You just have to stop if you see a dog and let them pass - they are so quick and unpredictable. But I'm a dog guy and even sometimes walk our dog there, so I can't complain.

Most dangerous thing I ever encountered was a couple of dog walkers having a romantic interlude against a tree just off a very secluded trail. They - and their dogs - just watched me cruise by calm as could be. I could easily have kissed a tree as stunned and distracted as I was!!!

Edited for a few bad typos - which I blame on the phone.

[Ruby the Liberal]

47. That goes for walking as well

I much prefer to wait for a natural gap in traffic. If someone stops out of the flow to wave me to cross a street, 99.9% chance someone in the other lane (or will cross into the other lane) will assume they are stopping and fly by. Just keep going based on the traffic pattern and let me cross when it clears.

Great thread. This is a pet peeve of mine.

[kestrel91316]

54. I would like to, just once in my life, be able to bike the 2 miles to or from my office

without having a car roar past me IN MY LANE at high speed, cutting as close to me as possible, instead of using the other EMPTY lane to pass.

Just. Once.

I'm not holding my breath.

And I knew the lying ___ bike haters would show up here. They ALWAYS do, lying about how horrible cyclists are and how dangerous we are and how we should be banned from the roads.

Well listen up, kiddies. It ain't the bicyclists who commit daily fatal hit-and-runs all over this city. And it ain't the cyclists who wind up in high speed chases that end in multiple fatalities. On that rare occasion when a bike runs a light or stop sign and there is actually a car in their path, it's not the car that gets destroyed and its occupants killed.

WE aren't the problem. Millions upon millions of rude, dangerous, self-centered or drunk drivers are.

[PasadenaTrudy]

64. I was recently in Portland OR

and I'm very impressed with both drivers and bike riders there. Drivers are very patient, bike riders used hand signals, etc. I know this is Portland, and probably the exception, as cars and bikes are pretty integrated. The bike paths are great too. People ride single file and not two or three abreast. That really helps on the narrow roads. Also didn't notice any lycra clad weekend warrior Lance Armstrong wannabe types. My part of SoCal is full of these guys.

[Zorra]

71. Agreed, but I can't keep going when someone on a bike is four feet into my lane and

a car is coming in the opposite lane.

I live in a world famous scenic rural area that is very popular for tourist roadbiking, and bicyclists get killed here all too often. Just a few months ago there was a bicycling charity event, and a bicyclist was killed not far from my home.

Just because there isn't much traffic doesn't mean there isn't much danger.

I love riding my bicycles, but am appalled at the total lack of common sense displayed by some bicyclists when they think they are experiencing "the freedom of the open road".

[Marrah_G]

73. If the most annoying thing is someone trying to be nice....

... then you should be thankful. There aren't enough people out there trying to be kind to others.

[F4lconF16]

88. Yes, but when their "niceness"

Has a chance of getting me killed, then I don't particularly appreciate it. What was that saying about the best of intentions, again?

I do agree it's a relatively minor gripe, and I get why people do it. If they would just try to be nice somewhere else...

[Gidney N Cloyd]

78. I biked a lot until I messed up my knee a few years ago. There's plenty of stoopid to go 'round.

To your point I'd say the default option for all concerned is that if you have the right of way, take it. I remember being on the forest preserve bike path a number of times when I'd get to a road crossing-- with cars entering and exiting the preserve to or from the adjoining highway. There were stop signs on the bike path but not for the road. If it was clear of traffic (and there were no issues there with obstructed views) I'd roll through the intersection but if I saw an approaching car, I'd obey my sign. I'd stop and put my feet flat on the ground and wait for the car to pass but half the time they wouldn't pass. They'd stop and wave me across. And I'd point at my stop sign and motion for them to keep going and we'd play this little Alphonse and Gaston* game for a bit until someone gave in or other traffic forced the issue.

Same thing happens too often when I'm driving. When did they stop teaching 'right of way' in driving school? You want to be polite, save it for when traffic is merging around a closed lane or an accident, but when two cars get to a 4-way stop at about the same time, follow the rules.

.

*For non-oldfarts, think Looney Toons' 'Goofy Gophers.

[raven mad]

85. Except at 40 below with visibility about 3 feet (if you're lucky).

Then, the gesture to go ahead usually means this Jeep is going to be sure you get to the safe area.

[Recursion]

90. A bicyclist who stops at stop signs? Cool story, bro

[F4lconF16]

94. ...

[LiberalElite]

92. "every road user wants predictability from other users" I would add to that

PEDESTRIANS also want predictability from the road users. In this regard, in NYC at least there is NO predictability from the bike riders. They do whatever they want and you can't hear them coming. They go around cars that are stopped for pedestrians. They go against vehicular traffic, so if you're looking one way for cars you also have to remember to look the other way for bikes. I was hit and knocked down by a bike rider while crossing at the corner in the crosswalk WITH THE LIGHT IN MY FAVOR. It's a rarity that they stop at a red light AND STAY STOPPED. As a pedestrian, I cannot trust anyone on a bike.