Apparently they don't catcall in New Zealand

[davidn3600]

Only 2 people even spoke to this woman as she walked the streets of Auckland, New Zealand. One guy asked for directions. The other guy asked if she was Italian, said she looked "nice," and apologized for stopping her.

It makes me wonder if this catcalling problem is only an issue in certain parts of certain cities...

[alcibiades_mystery]

1. Um...

"in certain parts of certain cities..."

Wow. Just wow.

[davidn3600]

5. Oh give me a freakin break

Look further down the thread...someone said they never see it in Manhattan.

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. Give me a fucking break yourself

What "certain parts of certain cities?" What do you mean? If you've got some claim to make, make it. If you want to insert the pregnant ellipses for "certain parts of certain cities..." assume that some people, me included, will read that as coyness about being a racist fucking jackass.

[demmiblue]

10. I also read it that way. n/t

[davidn3600]

17. Unbelievable

If you actually think there is no difference of a crime rate throughout a given city, you are not accepting reality.

Every police officer in this country, every single one of them, will tell you there are places in a city that tend to have higher crime rates than others. I made absolutely no indication of race! You are the one jumping to conclusions. There is a higher correlation of this to poverty, not race. But that's an entirely different debate.

Are you suggesting that what Im saying is false...that cities don't have varying crime rates, or varying rates of poverty?

This is stupid. Im not even going to talk to you about this anymore. Im sorry if it offended you.

[djean111]

2. Don't know if this is still the norm, but I went on a vacation to Spain in the '70s.

With a group of people I worked with.
We had to attend a meeting in the hotel lobby the night we got there. We ladies were told that we should prepare for voluminous and constant male attention. We were told that, whatever was being said, DO NOT MAKE EYE CONTACT.
That making eye contact pretty much meant hey! I certainly want to have sex with you right here right now!
Walking on the sidewalk in the city - businessmen, suits, briefcases, etc., would wheel around and follow us, hissing loudly.
Someone followed me into a bookshop and grabbed my ass and then ran outside before I could react.
Unnerving.

[treestar]

24. I went in the 70s and we learned that girls had to go out with someone else

Being on the street alone meant you were a hooker.

[PeoViejo]

3. Women in NZ are very progressive and open-minded

and likely would tell anyone who did to fuck-off.

[badtoworse]

4. I work in Manhattan and I don't see it happening

Lots of attractive women walking around but no catcalls. Maybe it's only happening in certain areas (like around construction sites) or maybe it's not as much of a problem as is being reported.

[Fred Sanders]

6. Not "construction zones"only, also in "Neanderthal Man zones". There should be a warning sign.

[Man from Pickens]

8. Let's call the "catcalling" mania what it is - racism

New Zealand has negligible population of African or Hispanic descent.

The woman who made the now-infamous video was trolling poor, minority neighborhoods because she was too high and mighty to be propositioned by a poor black man without feeling annoyed-to-threatened by it.

[seabeyond]

9. uppity woman, how dare she not allow a minority man to treat her like a prostitute?

is that really what you walk on du to say?

[Man from Pickens]

14. More like

portraying black men like every one of them is a potential rapist just waiting for the chance to become an actual rapist

because it's TOTAL coincidence that she chose to film the majority of her film in Harlem, with all the real "scary" guys being black, right?

[seabeyond]

15. she was too high and mighty to be propositioned by a poor black man

how about.... BULLSHIT and FUCK THAT SHIT.

want to go after the people that made the video, fine. and go after the male producer. not the actress that simply followed directions.

but fuck that shit dismissing harassment because you claiming women are uppity or whatever bullshit for calling out harassment from any boy or man.

[gollygee]

19. The "catcalling mania" as you dismissively call it is a real issue

and is a part of rape culture, but I can't disagree with you about the specifics of the video that particular woman and her producer made in New York. It isn't a coincidence, and it does intensify already existing racist stereotypes, in fact a stereotype that goes way back to Birth of a Nation. There's no excuse for it, and I hope other young women respond by showing videos where white men verbally harass random young women, because this is a problem without race and people need to not have this be their image of what street harassment looks like. If it looks like a racial problem, people will have racial suggestions for solutions. I'm worried that this video will make things much worse rather than better.

But please don't think that the problem with street harassment is white women not wanting to be talked to by African American men. We just don't want random men of any race yelling at us.

All street harassment feels threatening to some extent or another, and there's a cumulative effect so even if one specific instance doesn't look bad, you have to understand that it is part of a regular pattern of harassment. You don't emotionally respond to them individually - you respond to the experience as a whole. The ones who get angry when they don't get a response are the scariest.

[badtoworse]

11. Now this is an interesting take and some grist for the mill.

Are you suggesting that those guilty of the catcalling are predominantly Black and Hispanic? Is that not racist too?

[Nye Bevan]

12. Soho and Greenwich Village are poor neighborhoods?

I did not know that.

[gollygee]

13. It is annoying and threatening no matter who does it

their choice of whom to include in the video was racist, but that doesn't mean the problem of street harassment isn't real or is racialized. In my experience, it was actually worse with white men because they'd push more - they had a greater sense of entitlement to a response and would get more upset if you didn't respond - but I don't know if that's because I'm also white. I did not notice men of any race being more or less apt to participate in street harassment. It is a problem with no race lines and is incredibly disappointing that they made a video that tries to make it look like street harassment is a problem created by men of color rather than men of all races. And it leaves people like the OP wondering if street harassment is a problem "only in certain areas of certain cities."

[geek tragedy]

16. Excusing misogyny by a phony claim of racism.

Bonus points for attacking a woman for not wanting to be propositioned by strangers on the street.

She is not the one with the problem.

[BKH70041]

18. I wish I could slow down the film.

I was trying to read the names of some of the businesses she was passing on the streets. I did catch a few American companies who have set up shop there.

Auckland is a city of 1.5 million, so while it's no NYC, it's no small town either. I think it just comes down to the people there and how they're more reserved. It reminds me the difference between NYC and London, and I've lived in both places. On the NY subway, I felt generally safe, but was always wary of what was going on around me. In London on the Tube, I never felt threatened at all. This woman got the looks from passers by, but not the vocal. The woman in NYC got both and then some.

[davidn3600]

21. NYC isn't exactly the friendliest town either

No offense to New Yorkers here, but there are all sorts of harassment in that city. They are having problems right now with the street performers in Times Square harassing tourists for money. They are even getting into brawls with the police. There is a video on YouTube of Spider-man punching a cop. If they aren't afraid of throwing punches at the cops, you can only imagine what they do to women passing by.

[lame54]

23. That was not my experience in manhattan...

I spent a week there - I brought my pre-conception that ny'ers were rude

I was completely surprised how nice and helpful people were in that city

when we were in full tourist mode and looking at our map trying to figure out where we were - a guy with a thick ny accent stopped and helped us out - he was very friendly

we had many similar incidents all week long

[gollygee]

20. There are so many things that could cause her experience to be different

Do we know if she did it for a whole day like the other woman? How well was the camera hidden - if it was hidden and people did not know they were being recorded in one case, but it was obvious that there was something going on in the other, there would be different reactions by passers-by. And it looks like everyone was busy in the NZ one - maybe it was a work day and the NY one was not a work day? Or maybe there was some other reason why people seemed busier in the NZ one than the NY one. Certainly the busier you are, the less time you have for harassment. And there were fewer people on average on the street in the NZ one - in some cases the street was moderately busy but a lot of the time the street was pretty quiet.

The point is that you're speculating about the reason when there could be a number of reasons, or multiple reasons for the difference. I'm too old now, but I had this happen in my small city when I was younger. I think all women who live everywhere have experienced it to some extent or another, though now that I think of it maybe a town small enough where everyone knows everyone and there can be no expectation of anonymity would not have this problem.

Even in my small town in the 80s and 90s, I received a lot of harassment some days, and very little others. The same woman in NZ might have had a different experience on another day, and the same woman in NY might have had less harassment another day.

[bullwinkle428]

22. Nice Paul Ryan-level dog-whistle you got there...