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BarackTheVote

(938 posts)
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:41 PM Nov 2014

Anyone read "It Can't Happen Here" by Sinclair Lewis?

Because, spoiler alert, the whole point of the book is, it can. It's beginning to look a lot like fascism here. My rational mind keeps telling me it's not going to be as bad as I'm afraid of... but I'm sure the German intelligencia said much the same thing in '33. Point is, in order for democracy to succeed and for fascism to never take hold, it requires a vigilant populace. Which is not what America has right now. The tenor in America is racism, mean-spirited "I got mineism," religious fundamentalism, and a complete disregard for human life and suffering; people either don't care about police brutality, or are actively supporting it. The climate is bad, very bad. Watch your ass.

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Anyone read "It Can't Happen Here" by Sinclair Lewis? (Original Post) BarackTheVote Nov 2014 OP
Some percentage of America I would say upaloopa Nov 2014 #1
Someone mentioned it in another post. Never heard of it. But I am SummerSnow Nov 2014 #2
pssst...I posted links to free copies, downthread. n/t dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #7
Global entanglements will lead to even more militarization and horrible prejudice. rwheeler31 Nov 2014 #3
I wonder how far into the fascist nation the German people were before they realized what was jwirr Nov 2014 #4
Really depends BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #8
When you ask that question dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #10
As to how easy it is to "take over" a country dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #11
Many thanks to all of you. Especially to what to read. I have a confession: As a German American jwirr Nov 2014 #13
I honestly think that understanding events back then will make you feel better. dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #15
The picture is telling. We saw this in Ferguson MO. jwirr Nov 2014 #23
It has crossed my mind. moondust Nov 2014 #5
When I write about voting the next time and especially after last night I always wonder IF there jwirr Nov 2014 #14
The pretense of voting will likely be continued csziggy Nov 2014 #17
Read that many years ago, actually. dixiegrrrrl Nov 2014 #6
Buzz and buzz and buzz... KamaAina Nov 2014 #9
K&R burrowowl Nov 2014 #12
Yep. Did you know V is an adaptation? HereSince1628 Nov 2014 #16
They don't need to use the German methods to get the same results. hifiguy Nov 2014 #18
Yes, and people have been pointing to imminent fascism in the US for the entire 80 years since Recursion Nov 2014 #19
The Repukes have been spouting openly fascist talking points hifiguy Nov 2014 #20
read it. I think Bush didn't go full fascism because enough Republicans were smart enough to know yurbud Nov 2014 #21
The Fascists are draped in the flag and carrying a cross. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #22

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
1. Some percentage of America I would say
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:48 PM
Nov 2014

is like that. I think Americans just aren't smart enough to connect the dots.
We are more like those folks in the time machine movie who go to the underground when the siren blows.
We are dumbed down like a bunch of sheep. We follow the latest trend or group think.

SummerSnow

(12,608 posts)
2. Someone mentioned it in another post. Never heard of it. But I am
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:48 PM
Nov 2014

going to purchase it. Sounds like a good read.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
4. I wonder how far into the fascist nation the German people were before they realized what was
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:58 PM
Nov 2014

happening? Or for most of them did they only realize it as hindsight?

My guess is that it was the latter. So how far into this are we? A few of us recognize it but from the results of the election last night I don't think many Americans have any idea. I suspect they do not know what fascism is. When I was in school in the 50s we learned about WWII but not about the politics of the Nazis. When I went to college in the 70s the same was true. I suspect that even the educated in this country do not know and I also suspect they do not want to know. We seem to ignore anything that is unpleasant.

BlindTiresias

(1,563 posts)
8. Really depends
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:28 PM
Nov 2014

Those on the left already received the message loud and clear after the Spartakist revolts, and some keener intellectuals also saw it coming years before it was too late. The rest of them (including moderate liberals) either didn't see it coming, didn't care it was happening, or loved the fact it was happening.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
10. When you ask that question
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:47 PM
Nov 2014

you have to differentiate between the Aryan and non-Aryan German people, specifically the Jews.

Fascism in Germany had wide spread support of most Germans, who were pretty happy until they lost the war.
The non-aryan Germans, esp. the religious minorities, included a mixture of people who could see trouble and could leave in time to save themselves,
and those people who saw but could not get away for various reasons, and those people who did not see what was happening until it was too late to avoid it.

Many excellent books have been written describing the whys and wherefores of that very question.
I am in the midst of reading Vasily's Grossman's Life and Fate, and kicking myself for not reading it sooner.
( Huge to DU's Tierra_y_Libertad for sharing the books)

( I recommend these 2 links for more info about him and the book:
http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/vasily-grossman-loser-saint

http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/features/vasilygrossman)

They Thought They Were Free is a much referenced book about why people in Germany reacted as they did to the years of Hitler's rise to power.
Free download here:
https://archive.org/details/theythoughttheyw027497mbp

One of the most well known parts is this:

What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security . . .

This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter . . .

To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.
"How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know.


Excellent piece found in The Daily Kos in 2012
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/08/29/1125588/-German-s-Thought-They-Were-Free-and-So-do-You

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
11. As to how easy it is to "take over" a country
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:57 PM
Nov 2014

we have been witnessing that for a couple of decades now, here.

The most effective method used is ...Government Bureaucracies.

I strongly recommend a read of Hans Sherrer's The Inhumanity of Government Bureaucracies
a 15 page article on why bureaucracies are so useful to those in power.

Free pdf download here:
http://www.independent.org/pdf/tir/tir_05_2_sherrer.pdf

Opening lines:
The media attention focused on elected officials leads many people to think of them as “the government.”
Such thinking diverts us from the recognition of a critical truth:
politically articulated agendas are transformed into reality only by bureaucratic systems.

Bureaucracies are the dominant means by which governments control and influence the daily lives of people throughout the world.
If only because of the prominent position that government bureaucracies occupy in society, we need to understand the forces bearing upon the execution of their functions.

This need is heightened by the common observation that government bureaucrats routinely treat people in ways that would be decried as inhumane if that treatment were meted out by anyone else


jwirr

(39,215 posts)
13. Many thanks to all of you. Especially to what to read. I have a confession: As a German American
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 05:19 PM
Nov 2014

I have never wanted to know because it made me feel so ashamed. I think the time has come for me to start learning what I know will tear me apart. This cannot be ignored.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
15. I honestly think that understanding events back then will make you feel better.
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 07:23 PM
Nov 2014

For many many years after the war, people only understood the superficial reasons for what happened in Germany.
But when I read Vasily Grossman, or Hannah Arendt, or Meyer's book, it becomes clear how human nature can be fooled,
how human feelings of denial are indeed "the shock absorbers of the soul".

Here, on DU, for many years since 2000, there have thousands of arguments about how important/serious/deadly the changing face of our country has become.
People who compared the Patriot Act to fascism were roundly booed,. Here...on DU.

Take a look at the Daily Kos article I linked to upthread, the part that starts with Eisenhower Presidential address, and lays out,point by point, where we have come since 2000.

Worse yet, the same gobbling up of people's rights, people's jobs, money and freedom is now happening on GLOBAL scale.
I am not talking about Afghanistan and Iran and Isis..I am talking about Europe, about Spain and Italy and Greece and Ireland and now Scotland.
Counties whose people think they are still living in a Democracy, but who are losing everything.

And yet, how many folks here on DU take the time to scan the international news to follow the pattern?

See how easy it is to be swallowed, bit by bit?


moondust

(19,981 posts)
5. It has crossed my mind.
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:14 PM
Nov 2014

In the context of at least a decade of Republican efforts to subvert representative government--voter suppression, heavy propaganda, gerrymandering, dark money, etc--I can't help but wonder how far they may go to try to guarantee their permanent hold on power.

This sort of thing may be closer than a lot of people realize: Enabling Act of 1933

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
14. When I write about voting the next time and especially after last night I always wonder IF there
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 05:21 PM
Nov 2014

will be a next time.

csziggy

(34,136 posts)
17. The pretense of voting will likely be continued
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 07:43 PM
Nov 2014

Even as it means less and less and makes little difference. All this stage play of supporting candidates, volunteering, getting out the vote, arguing with each other over small details is a great way to keep us busy without actually seeing what is going on behind the scenes.

Yes, I will continue to vote. And yes, I will probably volunteer again and again for promising candidates and encourage everyone I know to vote. But deep down I really can't believe our votes really do make a real difference especially at the national level.

That's what it seems like when I am in a depressed and cynical mood, anyway. I might be more hopeful tomorrow or next week. But right now....

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
16. Yep. Did you know V is an adaptation?
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 07:28 PM
Nov 2014

From wiki:

Inspired by the book, director–producer Kenneth Johnson wrote an adaptation titled Storm Warnings in 1982. The script was presented to NBC for production as a television miniseries, but NBC executives rejected the initial version, claiming it was too cerebral for the average American viewer. To make the script more marketable, the American fascists were re-cast as man-eating extraterrestrials, taking the story into the realm of science fiction. The revised story became the miniseries V, which premiered May 3, 1983.[9]

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
18. They don't need to use the German methods to get the same results.
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 07:52 PM
Nov 2014

Control mechanisms and media psyops are much more subtle now. They marginalize everything and everyone that doesn't serve their corporate fascist vision not by eliminating them but by making them invisible in the mass media. They electronically disappear rather than literally disappearing and the effect is the same.

They don't need concentration camps - they can already spy on everyone in the country.

They don't need death camps - they can passively cull the herd by making health care basically inaccessible to the "undesirables." Goldman can always engineer the necessary commodity shortages to facilitate starvation as an adjunct, all in the name of capitalism. Nothing can be done about the omniscient "free market." Suck it up or die, preferably the latter.

"War Forever" is now the official state policy.

One actual similarity to the German model is that the militarized police are starting to look an awful lot like the Gestapo.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
19. Yes, and people have been pointing to imminent fascism in the US for the entire 80 years since
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 07:54 PM
Nov 2014

it came out.



It's at least a more interesting argument than Britt's "14 characteristics of fascism" that people trot out every week or so...

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
20. The Repukes have been spouting openly fascist talking points
Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:06 PM
Nov 2014

for a long while now. It used to be disguised - from 1936 to 1980 it wasn't done at all by any respectable Republican - but Reagan and the people behind him began to slowly pull the mask down. It has been off entirely since 2009.

yurbud

(39,405 posts)
21. read it. I think Bush didn't go full fascism because enough Republicans were smart enough to know
Thu Nov 6, 2014, 01:59 AM
Nov 2014

what would happen if they pulled the trigger and fail (certainly not because they had any great love of democracy or the American people).

The rich cooked up the Tea Party precisely to correct this: they are so fucking stupid and arrogant that they can't grasp what will happen if they do what they are told by the rich and the rest of the country decides they have had enough.

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