How do we handle the thousands of "I wont Vote for Hillary" posts we are about to see?

[randys1]

I was just on a jury about this and I did the liberal thing, free speech and all that, but it got me thinking.

In the next 24 months we will see endless threads and posts focused on people urging us NOT to vote for Hillary if she runs, or they wont come right out and say not to vote for her but that will be the whole point. And while we have a primary season where we are all going to be considering different people which is all fine and dandy, but if she is nominated dont expect the Hillary bashing to stop, it wont.

Some of these posts and threads will be from well meaning liberals who sincerely and wrongly believe there is little difference between Hillary and whatever the alternative is, and many of them will be from GOP plants, Rovian minions, Kochies, whatever you wanna call them.

I say we need to discuss whether or not we want this board to turn into a full time #bashHillary parade.

Look, if Bernie Sanders gets the nomination I will work overtime for him, or Liz or Hillary, because TO ME the alternative is so horrible, so disgusting, so dangerous, I am willing to do whatever it takes to avoid that horror.

Nobody asks me but I would love to have Alan Grayson or Bernie Sanders as president, but IF Hillary is the nominee, then that is who I support, without reservation at that point, none of this holding my nose nonsense, talk about turning off voters.

[oldandhappy]

1. I am already skipping on to the next post.

Not sure why I opened this one. Just a good question. I plan to ignore most of the negative posts. I will absolutely support the Dem nomination no matter who it is. Cruz for president? Probably not!! More important to work for voter registration and health care and fracking than to fret about Hillary. We need a Dem congress!!

[randys1]

3. My entire focus is on voter suppression or exposing it, so I agree that if we were NOT

constantly arguing with people about why Hillary is no good, we could be registering people to vote.

[oldandhappy]

8. Plus

if we do not respond to the negative posts, I suppose the people posting will gradually go elsewhere. I think they want the large number of conflicting comments and recs. Easy to take that away. And, yes, registering people is my priority. We are on the same page, randys1. Happy Thursday.

[BlueCaliDem]

44. ^^^This x 1000^^^

If Hillary is the Democratic Party nom in 2016, I will vote for her. I don't know if I'll vote for her in the primaries, though. That would depend on who else is running.

And you're so correct! We NEED a Dem Congress if we don't want HRC to be hamstrung as President Obama has been hamstrung. I'm so sick and tired of Republican obstructionism and anti-democratic actions that are keeping this country stagnant while they work to drag it back to a pre-civil rights era. Sickening.

[Faux pas]

2. Ignore

and move along.

[randys1]

4. Ignore me or ignore the thousands of posts that will be attacking Hillary?

[Faux pas]

10. Ignore any post about hrc

I DO NOT WANT more clinton bush clinton shit until the end of my life. I'll ignore you now.

[randys1]

41. So if it is Hillary vs Ted Cruz, you stay home or vote 3rd party? Really?

[Faux pas]

67. I said I am going to ignore you

but you keep coming back. About your question, Really? Are you just itching for a fight with a fellow Dem? Ain't gonna happen, have a nice life AH.

[randys1]

72. Dear god no i was asking a simple question...an important one too

[mopinko]

5. deliver the pizza.

get the fud out of here, guys. please.

[Warren Stupidity]

26. deliver your own pizza.

and you spelled fuck wrong.

[mopinko]

58. fud. its a thing.

if i had the ban hammer, i would be wielding it. but even as a mod, we didnt have control over that.

[Warren Stupidity]

65. "get the fud out of here"

not that usage.

Luckily you aren't a mod any more. Just another regular idiot like the rest of us.

[SidDithers]

68. +1...

and your usage of "fud" is correct.



Sid

[JoePhilly]

6. They'll continue until she wins the primary.

After that, they'll be shut down.

[randys1]

7. Let's see ...I think my thread was premature now that you say that, actually

[JoePhilly]

24. Once she becomes The Dem Candidate ...

... much of the current attacks start to violate the TOS.

[SidDithers]

34. And that's when the perpetually outraged will go quiet...

They value their posting privileges more than their principles.

Sid

[BlueCaliDem]

47. Yep. Because with them, it's all about ME! ME! ME!

And the rest of this country can take a long walk off a short pier for all they care. Fair-weather Dems (if they really are Dems) are the wink chink in the Democratic Party and social safety net armor. IMO, they are the Republicans', the Oligarchs', and the 1%ers' best allies.

[1StrongBlackMan]

90. I wish that would be the case ...

but then, we get posts like I did in my Scuba Appreciation thread.

[Xithras]

56. Which is as it should be.

I'm solidly in the "IWV4H" camp, but DU doesn't exist to undermine the nominee. If she wins, and I'll do EVERYTHING I can to keep that from happening, I'll simply stop discussing my own vote on DU. There are plenty of other races and topics to discuss. If someone can't stop campaigning against the nominee, they should get the boot. If they don't think they can keep their mouth shut, they should leave. I won't vote for Hillary, but if I was on a jury judging an alert on an "I won't vote for Hillary" post, I'd vote to hide. If she wins the nomination, this is simply not the board for those posts.

If someone won't vote for the nominee in ANY Democratic race, they need to shut up about it or leave.

[JoePhilly]

57. Makes sense to me.

[mopinko]

62. nope. not part of the du3 rules.

even when the rules said attacking dems was not allowed, those posts were very, very rarely removed.

[JoePhilly]

64. It depends on how the attack is structured.

For instance, for the last month, we had endless attacks on "Democrats" ... many of which were generic. And its ok to attack Obama now, he's not running for anything.

I think if you run around DU trying to get people to not vote for a specific dem in a specific election, its gonna get hidden.

But hey, we'll see what happens.

I'm sure if Hillary wins the nomination, there are a few folks around here who will go apoplectic.

[woo me with science]

9. Divisive Third Way propaganda thread. Trashing thread.

and hoping others do the same.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025767160

[randys1]

14. I am third way LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[JoePhilly]

30. If one of DU's self appointed high priests of ...

... liberalism says so, it must be true ... so now we have to burn the heretic!!!

[randys1]

35. And ME of all people, ME the person who would nationalize all fuel

electricity, cell service, internet service, oil and gas, healthcare, water, etc.

ME

[JoePhilly]

51. Sorry ... still not progressive enough ...

... the party must be cleansed!!!

[Marr]

31. +1

[Iggo]

11. Well, we could resist posting that she is inevitable and that therefore they have no choice.

People hate that.

[randys1]

18. Show me where I said that on this thread

[Iggo]

22. Didn't say you did.

[msongs]

12. bernie sanders is not a democrat. nt

[randys1]

15. You are right, he is not.

[Maedhros]

69. He's a man of principle, and is unwilling to sell those principles for a shiny blue "D"

next to his name. I call that courageous.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. You want to limit debate on a candidate on a political board?

Just make happy talk and fawn over a candidate that many of us can't stand?

[randys1]

16. Gee no, not DEBATE, if you want to list all the reasons you WONT vote for a Democrat

instead of why you will vote for a Democrat, so be it

As a socialist, myself, well not 100% socialist but damn near, I would love to see a liberal in the WH someday...

but I am a realist too and I cant stop thinking about dead Women in back alleys

I just cant get that out of my mind, sorry

I was just called 3rd way by someone, i meant that actually made me laugh out loud

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. I can't stop thinking about the dead babies killed in the war she voted for.

And, vocally supported.

[randys1]

33. Babies, men, Women, for sure.

I remember her affinities to Walmart and I doubt she would be willing to ignore Wall Street all together when it comes to inequality.

I think she will NOT raise top tax rate back to 90% where it belongs, I think she wont insist on medicare for all (although maybe in her last year of eight years if she gets to that point), I think she wont revise student loans either.

And I dont think she will stand by while Women die in back alleys, but Rand Paul or Ted Cruz or "fill in the blank GOP candidate" will.

They will because to not do so will jeopardize them with the twisted teaparty terrorists.

So if the CHOICE is ANY republican vs Hillary, I dont see how any alleged liberal could walk away and do nothing.

oh, and for that war my step son was almost one of those casualties, I think Bush and Cheney belong in prison

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. Don't open them. If she's nominated; alert on them.

Until she's the party's nominee, people are free to say what they wish in the context of voting for her.

[randys1]

20. And I posted this too soon, you are right...

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. I don't mean to be abrupt. I know where you're coming from. n/t

[brooklynite]

19. Simple answer: ignore them...

Remember that DU (much as we love it) is a self-selecting blogosphere with a certain degree of preaching to the choir, and has limited applicability to politics in the real world where the Primary will be held.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. until the primaries are over it is not an issue.

[randys1]

25. Yep, I did this too soon...That damn jury I was on got me thinking

[LannyDeVaney]

27. After the primary ... isn't it against forum rules to criticize the nominee?

There are plenty of other forums where people can criticize the Democratic nominee. Send them there.

[NCTraveler]

28. "I will not vote for Hillary" gets ignored.

Stating reasons why they are not happy about Hillary is more than fine. There is a rift in the party and I see it as healthy. We need to heal the party by shifting a little to the left, not to the right. As of now, Hillary is the status quo. She would be Obama with a little more fight. More fight doesn't really mean she will govern from a more liberal agenda. These arguments are fair game. Not voting for her is really stupid.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

86. There's a problem with how ignore works, I think.

I noticed it in a thread I was in that had a LOT of posts, by one particular annoying person. When I put that person on ignore, all of the posts nested underneath that person's comments also disappeared from what I could see. And that's really annoying, because some of those replies were worth reading, even if the initial person's inanities were not.

[NCTraveler]

92. My bad, I don't "DU Ignore" anyone.

I see how my post came across as "DU Ignore" them. I meant more along the lines of simply not responding to them. Don't start the fight. That is what I meant.

[dilby]

29. The same way you handle other I won't vote for Candidate XYZ posts.

Hillary is not the only one who will have people saying they wont vote for her, like someone else said it's a forum for people to debate their Democratic Candidates.

[wavesofeuphoria]

36. How do you handle them?

How about listening to their concerns and issues and engaging in discussion of those concerns rather than call them "Dem-leaning Independents" (If I read that one more time on this board, I will punch a unicorn) or other names meant to demean their views. Before the primary, any such discussions about any candidate, especially one attempting to run as a democrat, should be asked and discussed.

If they aren't listened to, expect the spanking the Third Way got this election to continue.

Perhaps those posts "urging us NOT to vote for Hillary" might indicate what other democrats (or those dem-leaning) have to say on issues.

[randys1]

38. I just truly wish I knew who was who, because I know for a fact as I post on SEVERAL

message boards that people are paid to post as Dems attacking Hillary.

I was the moderator of a very popular board and saw them come in with their sox when they were banned.

I know most here who are constantly going after her are liberals and not paid to do so, but some are.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

89. Does it pay well?

I could use some spare cash.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

87. Hah!

That sort of attitude towards people who weren't centrists is what actually finally gave me the impetus to leave the party and join the Dem Socialists. If they don't want to pay attention to people who they don't think are 'Real Democrats', then they can keep shrinking the party to the point that they can't win any elections.

[whatchamacallit]

37. You think the left is the problem

The problem is the blind just-win-and-everything-will-work-out faction of the party. They maintain the stagnate status quo. If you don't want to deal with legitimate criticism of the candidate, float a better one.

[randys1]

39. Well, in a perfect world we could elect Bernie to the White House.

And even though he would have practically NOBODY to work with to pass his agenda given both chambers are full of Wall sTreet friendlies, it would still be a start, yet.

So if Bernie is the Democratic Candidate, I will work hard for him, we know he wont run 3rd party as I am pretty sure he has said he wont do that to the american people.

I was gonna say Jerry Brown would be my idea of a great Prez but even he is too far to the right for me although i do love him

As I said elsewhere, give me the reigns and all electricity, fuel as in oil and gas, water, cell phone towers, internet access, healthcare and more would be NATIONALIZED, to me it is LUDICROUS to have a FOR PROFIT company get to decide how much my water or gasoline costs.

[Maedhros]

70. Last I checked, maintaining the status quo is a conservative value. [n/t]

[Nuclear Unicorn]

40. At this point our 2016 nominee may well be little more than a sacrificial lamb.

Perhaps Hillary would be the perfect nominee to support in the primary for those who do not like her.

[randys1]

42. Oh yeah, how awesome would it be with Cruz as prez, repub senate, house and SC

good idea

[Nuclear Unicorn]

45. Where did I say that would be a good idea? I never came close to it.

I said the Dem 2016 candidate may well be a sacrificial lamb. That implies that regardless of who gets the nomination the result will be a loss. If that were the case, 2016 would be the best to to unload our corporatist dead weight and protect our best people with our sights set on 2020.

(Sights. 2020. See what I did there?)

[randys1]

46. I would never vote for Hillary in the primary, by the way...I hope that is clear

for you to think we will lose at this point, boy i hope you are the ONLY one who will be spouting that stuff

[Nuclear Unicorn]

66. " i hope you are the ONLY one who will be spouting that stuff"

I doubt the 2016 election cycle hinges on my observations. However, if I am *not* the only one saying 2016 is certain doom (and I'm not really saying that) then being dismissive would only solidify the certainty. The key to winning elections is heeding the voice of the people, not telling people they're too stupid/{blank}ist/etc. They'll tell you when they're unhappy and why. Treating them as if their concerns don't matter will only piss them off all the more.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

91. It would certainly create a massive anti-Republican wave election next time around.

After seeing them turn around and trash the country again, voters would go all 2008 again.

[mmonk]

43. Continue denial?

[randys1]

48. BTW i would NEVER vote for Hillary in the primary...but you see I can work for and want

a real liberal while at the same time realize that if that does NOT happen I have to be realistic and responsible

[Bluenorthwest]

88. In the spirit of unity and common ground, please make note of the fact that you just made an

"I would NEVER vote for Hillary" post in a thread in which you are complaining about 'I would never vote for Hillary' posts.

I find it to be like looking at an MC Escher drawing.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

49. have a 'i wont vote hillary' forum?

[randys1]

52. There ya go, I can be the first poster BEFORE the nomination

BERNIE SANDERS is going to be emboldened by what happened this week, in some ways it was good for him and ultimately maybe good for us all...

[Kalidurga]

50. Well I won't be voting for her in the primary

If and that is a big IF she is nominated eventually, I will vote for her over any Republican.

[randys1]

54. Yep, that is kinda my point but it is premature and I should have waited to do this thread

[Kalidurga]

60. A year is a long time to wait

I hope we have other choices by then.

[LawDeeDah]

53. by what I see it's full time bashing Obama, why isn't that against the rules

but if it's Hillary, then it is?

[randys1]

55. I gave up trying to stop the Obama bashing, it is everywhere.

https://twitter.com/DidTheyLetUVote


he has actually performed like Superman given the horror he was left and the unprecedented obstruction

but even many Dems are just too brainwashed to believe it so I will leave it to the historians at this point

[ismnotwasm]

59. I plan on ignoring them.

I'm voting for the Democrat Candidate, period.

[JNelson6563]

61. Seems the battle lines are drawn, for the most part.

Personally I am indifferent on the issue until I see who all decide to run. I do hope the Hillary supporters and those who dislike her will put each other on ignore so the rest of us can live in peace but, of course, that will not happen. I suppose those of us who don't enjoy those mud-pit threads could simply put the worst of the obsessive on ignore.

Frankly I have chosen a different path by simply coming to DU less and less.

Julie

[SolutionisSolidarity]

63. If past is prologue, you'll ignore them, lose, and blame them for your loss.

Maybe in 2017 we can finally start talking about new directions to take this party. Who am I kidding; after Hillary loses we'll obviously have to shift further right. Do you think Zell Miller will still be around?

[randys1]

73. Another Hillary is gonna lose, wow, I honestly didnt see this coming

I thought the Hillary bashers would be angry that she was gonna win.

Like I said, I am basically a socialist, but I am a realist too

[Corruption Inc]

71. Some people like to talk about issues like criminal bankers

Issues, not personalities.

[GeorgeGist]

74. Arrogance has a way ...

[ARMYofONE]

75. I won't vote for Hillary in the primary, but if she's nominated, I'll plug my nose and support her.

[AtomicKitten]

76. DU TOS addresses this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

[LadyHawkAZ]

81. That didn't work too well this cycle

Plenty of bashing, trashing, undermining, and depressing turnout got left standing, as did the people posting it. Unless admin plans to step up their game for the next cycle, DU isn't going to be a good place for Democrats to be.

[GeorgeGist]

77. Cool.

[Jamastiene]

78. Don't run her.

That would be the smartest bet. If there is that much opposition in our own party, not to mention the baggage she brings with her re: being too hawkish on endless wars, being an easy target for the Repukes because of past scandals, not really representing a moderate, but a conservative agenda instead, etc., maybe it is time to listen and run someone who can get the majority of the party behind them.

Not running her for the nomination in the first place would be the best bet.

[arcane1]

79. We've been through primaries before at DU, we'll survive another one.

[Rex]

80. Why should we do something about them? It is their choice not to vote for her.

Do we just give up on democracy, because it became inconvenient at one point? Part of being an adult, is accepting other peoples opinion - they don't like her and want Grayson or Sanders or someone else. Are you going to pretend we believe in democracy, yet don't practice it when it goes against our wishes?

When it is all said and done, they WILL vote for Hillary if she is the parties candidate. But she is not yet, so it is NOT fair to demand we all get behind one leader...not yet.

One great thing about being a Dem is we believe in having choices, we don't have a primary candidate yet. THAT is the reality of the situation. In 2016 it will be different. For now...we are open to everyone that wants to be the candidate and should allow their voters to speak their mind.

[MineralMan]

82. Just skip past them, and there will be plenty of them.

Like most Democrats, I'll be voting for whomever is nominated by the convention. In the primaries, I'll vote for the person I think best represents me and who has the potential to win in the general election. Right now, that looks like Hillary. I don't see Sanders as a potential winner, and I don't think Warren is going to run. Grayson has some baggage that emerged just before the election this year that will probably keep him from running.

Frankly, I can't think of anyone else who is even on the list.

Is Hillary my ideal candidate? Not really. But I can't see anyone else who could win so far. Looking at the Republican clown car list, though, I can tell you that I'll vote and encourage others to vote for whichever Democrat gets the nomination, and I'll do it enthusiastically.

DU? It's going to be a troubling place for the next couple of years. I'll be reading selectively.

[MADem]

83. Don't respond, hit hide thread, and move forward.

You answer, or fight (and that's what they want, a good old Democratic dust-up, a pissing contest that won't change anything, least of all the world), and they get their blood pumping (easier than exercise) and if you support HRC, you simply get annoyed.

Don't kick the thread, don't act on it, just make it go away. Let them stew in their little hate-Hill-fest, saying dumb ass shit about who won't show up to their post to "defend" her. In sum, let that kind of negativity just SINK. It will stand as a record of who whined that you can link to on Inauguration Day--if you want to be snarky.

Post a "Why I Will Vote For HRC If She Is The Nominee" treatise if you have a mind, or go kick a pro-HRC thread. Just don't give any loft to threads that are negative.

I'll work for any Democrat who gets the nomination, too. ANY Democrat. Even an Independent flying under the DEMOCRATIC PARTY banner. Why? Because the worst Democrat is miles better than the best Republican--and that's a fact.

Grayson won't get the nomination--he's been in the news lately for his acrimonious divorce and the details are Ugly, UGLY, UG-LEEEEEEE. He's toast. He will never go further than where he's at, and he'd better buckle down and make a good impression over the next two years or he may be vulnerable owing to "shenanigans." He's got so much to go after--his only saving grace is that he's in a safe district, but nothing would surprise me. The GOP could fund a DINO who flips after getting in.

That said, if lightning struck and he got the nomination, I'd work for him, too.

It's all about the Supreme Court, and if people have trouble grasping that, I feel sorry for them, because they just don't have very good powers of deduction, logic or reason.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

84. Isn't site policy that anyone is free to say such right up until the

the end of the primary? (Even assuming she actually runs, AND wins the primary?)

If you're a Hillaryphile, you're free to say "I won't vote for Bernie!' right back at em.

Part of primarying, whether you like it or not, is people 'bashing' your candidate.

Gods know Hillary and her surrogates did a heck of a lot of Obama bashing in 2007 and 2008, with some surrogates even tossing racial dogwhistles.

So I think Hillary has to be willing to take her lumps just like any other candidate.

[rug]

85. Better than in 2008 I hope.

[mythology]

93. My plan is to ignore them

Hillary Clinton isn't my preferred nominee, but I wouldn't have any problem voting for her. But until she's the nominee, I also don't have a problem with the posts either. I mostly think they are silly as Hillary Clinton's positions are and will be closer to any Democratic voter's preferred policy positions than the Republican nominee.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

94. I live in CA, the bluest of blue states and the one of the most liberal ones.

Anecdotally, I have never spoke to a fellow Democrat or Democratic leaning independent who said to me "Brian, you know if Hillary Clinton gets the nomination I'm not voting for because she's not liberal enough."

Empirically, I would like to see data that significant numbers of Democrats or Democratic leaners won't vote for Hillary because she isn't progressive enough.

My belief is that you can fit the progressives who won't vote for Hillary into a 7-11...

[randys1]

97. Gee I hope you are right, I wonder who Bernie Sanders votes for in 2016 if Hillary is

the Democratic Candidate?




Actually I dont wonder at all, I would bet HUGE money on it...

[northoftheborder]

95. "Ignore this member" is my best friend. I refuse to get into any unreasonable, insulting,

attacking, misogynistic, intolerable rant threads about HRC, either by just reading or participating.

Reasonable discussion with facts of truth - it should be possible in a mature unpredjudiced group of people. Answer your own question about whether DU can be described this way. During the 08 primary it absolutely WAS NOT a place for reasonable discussion. That was before "ignore". I left, for years.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

96. re: Posts from GOP plants, Rovian minions, Kochies, whatever you wanna call them.

Notwithstanding 1-post hit and run trolls taken out by MIRT, the notion that there is a conspiracy of organized disruptors here at DU is, in my opinion, vastly overstated. There are posters on any message board that like to start flame wars and see drama. Democrats disagree on candidates for a variety of reasons. Some have 2-3 central issues that are important to them, and candidate "A" addresses those issues and candidate "B" does not. Some people simply dislike a candidate, or won't forgive them for a specific action or policy position (examples: many here won't forgive Hillary Clinton for her IWR vote; I won't forgive Elizabeth Warren for having been a member of the GOP in the 1990s).


The rules address the issue in your question. During the primaries, Democrats are fair game. Once a nominee is selected, members are expected to support the nominee.

[hfojvt]

98. in many states it is not going to matter

that's why I feel I have the option of not voting for Hillary. She's not going to win Kansas anyway. But I can also hold my tongue after the primary. I would say it is a hideable offense, but not a bannable one.

The sad thing is, though, I am not sure the Democratic Party has anybody else who can beat either Romney or Jeb. Who in the party has a national name?

Maybe I over-estimate that, though. Carter, Clinton, and Obama didn't have national names before they were elected.