What's wrong with 3rd way advocacy?

[whereisjustice]

3rd way is simply a group of Republicans who don't get along with the tea party. They have enough money to buy the Democratic Party.

You can thank them for "centering" the Democratic Party to the hard right. And, by the way, believing that NSA should spy on your children is most definitely hard right. Believing that Wall Street fraud doesn't need to be prosecuted because "no one got hurt" is definitely hard right. Not just hard right, it's also incredibly fucked up thinking. These are ideas that only dictators and despots endorse.

William K. Black said that "Third Way is this group that pretends sometimes to be center-left but is actually completely a creation of Wall Street--it's run by Wall Street for Wall Street with this false flag operation as if it were a center-left group. It's nothing of the sort."

William Kurt Black (born September 6, 1951) is an American lawyer, academic, author, and a former bank regulator.[1] Black's expertise is in white-collar crime, public finance, regulation, and other topics in law and economics. He developed the concept of "control fraud", in which a business or national executive uses the entity he or she controls as a "weapon" to commit fraud.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_K._Black

[RobertEarl]

1. Will see which trolls attack this, eh?

Big money has taken over the soul of most Democratic Party leaders.

Time we remove them from the wheelhouse with a mutiny!!

[whereisjustice]

2. Agree, third way must go. Let them go fuck up the Republican party. We have real work

that needs to get accomplished.

[RobertEarl]

3. Our leaders have lost touch

I am thinking the few elected officials in my area will be getting a contact from me telling them they must still have the touch and so they need to start using that power to appoint and bring forward new leaders. Those new leaders will be those who have proven they too still are in touch.

No more loud mouths who are in it for themselves and their own personal glory or money. The turnout proves the present day party leaders are failures. The only winners we have are those who got reelected this time, for they have shown they are in touch with the people.

[LostInAnomie]

4. Third Way is a nonsensical boogieman and scapegoat...

... that paranoid DUers point to when trying to explain why their self defeating ideas don't work.

Lose an election? THIRD WAY!!!

Preferred candidate doesn't get nominated? THIRD WAY!!!

Pollls show no support for your idea? THIRD WAY!!!

People saying stuff you don't like on a Democratic website? THIRD WAY !!!!111

[LostInAnomie]

7. Meh... some people like to live in an echo chamber.

Whatever works for you.

[RobertEarl]

17. Nice defense of the thrid way, lost

Guess what? The third way is real, and they are proven losers. Democrats have rejected them.

We will no longer cotton to their desires of there being one party made of republican big money lovers and lame Democrats.

You can join us, or you can remain lost in your diatribe.

[LostInAnomie]

18. Not a defense. Just pointing out that DU's obsession with Third Way is delusional.

Which is it.

[RobertEarl]

22. Not delusional at all for most DUers

Some, tho, it is quite evident that they can't see the Truth about the turd way.

Your claim, iow, is hardly even worthy of a response. Except to point out its utter fallacy. BOOM!

[LostInAnomie]

28. 9/10 Cryptozoologists believe in Bigfoot too.

Doesn't mean they aren't delusional morons.

[sabrina 1]

47. What IS delusional is any denial of the existence of the Third Way, especially since

they are quite proud of their existence and are easy to find, along with their policies, on their own website, not to mention the history of who they are and their goals for the Dem Party.

[ReRe]

51. Seriously...

...why don't they just go to their own website? Why do they $tay here?

[msanthrope]

53. Their own website? Seriously? Look at our start dates. I AM at my own website. nt

[ReRe]

61. But but but...

... Third Way started back in 1989. Yeah, your own website.

[msanthrope]

62. Welcome to DU! nt

[ReRe]

68. I'll have you know...

... that I lurked here for over 10 years before I finally signed up. You know what I meant.

[msanthrope]

69. Of course you did!!! nt

[ReRe]

71. Damn right I did...

... and your attack upon my character is absolutely baseless. This is my last conversation with you today.

[msanthrope]

74. I have not commented on your character. Merely noted that having been here a decade

longer than you....and, having just spent this last Tuesday at the polls, working voter protection, I must be running the longest black-op undercover operation on behalf of the Third Way ever yet seen.

[Number23]

88. Hey ms! Gotta love this thread and the folks loving it, huh?

Though the attaboys and personal attacks far outnumber the rec count, as usual. But I'm sure as the OP gets more errr... established here, his fan base will continue to grow... as it has for others.

[msanthrope]

89. Between this, and the "extreme prejudice" thread, I haven't seen this much paranoia

since Hannah Bell tried to convince us all that Bill and Melinda Gates were trying to take over the world vis-à-vis their vaccination program.

I wish whoever is paying for the shills on this site would get in touch with me. I could make some cash!!

NangeGreggs did some excellent research on Alexa and DU...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5778855

if someone is paying people to post here, they are wasting money.

[Number23]

92. Ahhh, Hannah Bell. Good times, good times. That one was a bit of a legend

And the same folks loving Hannah are the same folks that seems almost gleeful with the election results. Racing around every thread that is critical of the Democrats, even ones that accuse the president of being happy with the election results because he's evil -- EEEEEVIL!!!1 -- and can now fully commence with destroying America. Some of these folks are so happy I bet they must have had a very "physical" reaction to the Dems losing, if you know what I'm saying.

And now it's the bi-quarterly Diss the Third Way thread. I just don't care about the Third Way and seeing the quality of their detractors here makes me feel that they could not possibly be as detrimental to the Dem party as some of these folks. And I'm sure it's just a coincidence of the highest order that the same folks who spend every waking hour on this web site dissing Democrats of all stripes are also the same ones dissing the Third Way. ALL Democrats are the enemy, good or bad, and I think Republicans come like 8th or 9th on the list if they make it at all. These folks are the reason DU's viewership and participation is in the toilet, as your link shows. But since this is the only place IN THE WORLD where they have even the tiniest TASTE of power, the braying will continue. And it's damn good for a laugh.

[msanthrope]

99. You should check out the thread where Al Franken doesn't meet the purity

test. Tells you all you need to know.

Hannah was awesome. She knew how to bring the crazy.

[LostInAnomie]

65. Hahaha... You've been here 2 years.

I've been here over a decade.

"their own website"

[ReRe]

70. Just like I just told the other Third-Wayer...

... I lurked here for 10 years before I finally signed up. I know what a Democrat IS and what a Democrat IS NOT. And you are not, as evidenced by your attacks upon me.

[LostInAnomie]

79. Yes, everyone you disagree with is a "Third Wayer" and not a real Democrat.

Sounds rational.

So... You've been a DUer for 2 years. Welcome to DU.

[treestar]

139. whats really funny about that

If they could "purge" us then DU would not be a Democratic Board. The only ones left would be the ones complaining more about Democrats and how they are no better than Republicans, etc., etc. So why do they think a board called Democratic Underground with a TOS for supporting Democrats is "their" board to start with?

[sabrina 1]

85. Can't answer that, other than this, for a while, on many Dem forums, they WERE able

to drive off Democrats, some of the biggest Dem sites' owners, one in particular I am thinking of, first roped in Libs during the early Bush years, then filled the website with these DLC operatives who spent their time attacking the LEFT. That was a shock to many Dems but over time people began to figure it out. It was a big awakening for many Dems who frequented that site, to see it actually happening, the attacks on the Left FROM the so-called Left. Some of the attackers had been posing as 'ordinary' citizens, but eventually were revealed to be political operatives, as many had suspected and managed to get banned for suggesting it.

I was pretty naive up to that point frankly, but watching one of the 'premier Liberal' sites in action opened a lot of peoples' eyes quite a bit as they watched some of the nastiest people online get patted on the back by the owner of the site, while good Dems were being 'purged' by the thousands.

Something must have happened however, because that same site has done a complete about turn and now appears to be totally opposed to the same thugs he so defended. I suppose he should have guessed that if they will do what they do to others, they will do it to you too.

[Erose999]

54. Look at the makeup of their board of trustees. That will tell you everything you need to know about

Turd Way

?1386110745

[sabrina 1]

81. Amazing, isn't it? But we have to give credit where it is due. Wall St has been busy

taking over both parties while we continue to enable them. Well, maybe the time has finally come where the people, now aware of this terrible game they've been playing with our democracy, will start the process of reversing their progress before it's way too late.

[cascadiance]

119. Yep remnants of the now dead DLC that had been exposed as a "Koch brothers agent"

and probably couldn't remain too visible on the radar in getting more Democrats wise to that fact!

http://americablog.com/2010/08/koch-industries-gave-funding-to-the-dlc-and-served-on-its-executive-council.html

We need to get rid of these right wing cancers within this party, that have almost taken us to the terminal stage as a party without using some good doses of chemo to flush them out and restore the party to its ability to serve real people and not corporate people again!

[LostInAnomie]

66. No one denies the Third Way exists.

No rational person believes that a cabal of Wall Street insiders is trying to infiltrate some third tier Democratic site for the purpose of spinning the election.

[msanthrope]

77. Paranoia will destroy ya'.

[sabrina 1]

80. Well the Third Way IS a CABAL OF WALL ST INSIDERS for the most part. See their Board of

Directors. See how many of them are in the cabinet of this Democratic administration. Point out ONE economic Cabinet member who could reasonably be called NOT a Wall St insider.

I agree about one thing, if they thought they could persuade Liberal Dems to accept Wall St/Heritage Foundation policies, that WAS delusional. Democrats will never sell Social Security to Wall St, which is what the Third Way is attempting to do. Well, I should say 'the Left', that they so despise, and they do, will never do so. So they had to keep filling Congress with DLCers, now the Third Way so they could ignore the voters and get their policies passed.

I am an extremely rational person, thanks for suggesting otherwise btw, and I have done enough research on this over the past few years to try to find out WHY the Dem Party had swung so far to Right of Center. Now I know why and so do millions of others. They got away with it for a while, but the continued bashing of the Left, the base of the party finally caused puzzled Dems to find out WHY that was happening and we have.

[LostInAnomie]

86. No, what you have done isn't research.

It was starting with an answer you liked and worked backwards to make the evidence fit. Just like most conspiracy theorists do.

[AgingAmerican]

90. lol

nt

[Erose999]

82. Sorry DU is "third tier" for you there, bud. I'll have the conciegre send you a fruit basket.

[Erose999]

84. Why else WOULD third way exist? Please tell me more about what exactly this organization does for

the Democratic party (other than destroying it from the inside).

[Rex]

128. They're neo-liberals, you know the libertarians supposedly so hated on this site.

Funny how some libertarians are okay and others are not.

[sabrina 1]

132. I think that IS all the Third Way does, destroy the Dem Party from the inside.

[delrem]

123. How do you explain yourself, then?

Do you just do it naturally?

[LostInAnomie]

124. If by "do it naturally" you mean...

... not get swept up in delusional conspiracy theories peddled by half-wits... Then yes, it comes naturally.

[delrem]

125. Promoting a lame CT talking point does seem to come naturally to you.

Esp. considering how often you've pounded that trite point in response to this one OP, saying *nothing* of substance to balance it out.

I say that a reasonable mind would not dismiss either the Third Way in particular nor politics itself as being mere "conspiracy theory", since politics is, in essence, conspiracy. Perhaps it doesn't come naturally for you to understand that?

Given that DU is one of the largest and most visible forums on the internet explicitly defined for discussing Democratic Party politics, wherein Third Way is *given* as a clearly well funded, influential movement run by investment bankers (as see the named executives posted in response to you and ignored by you up-thread), boasting many power speakers and power players, politicians, and think tanks, I conclude that anyone who would dismiss discussion about Third Way influence as being mere CT, without fleshing the dismissal out in any way whatsoever, must be a half-wit. Or a Third Way dupe.

I read DU posts not just to become informed. I also read DU posts to become fired up, to help me understand what fires up my neighbours, just so that I can better conspire/collude with them. DU is just one place I visit, along with Firedoglake (ooooh! doesn't the Third Way crowd just HATE Firedoglake!! "Firebaggers!", the fiends!), truthout, TYT, firstlook (Firedoglake has *nothing* on the hatred firstlook engenders in the Third Way crowd. Nothing!), and so on. What I read indeed does influence me. When it makes sense. Your "CT" talking point makes no sense at all.

[Erose999]

143. I will deny that "the" Third Way exists (note the article). The Joe Liebermann-esque myth of the

magical "center". There is no center. There is only "right" and "far right". The GOP refuse to give any ground on the destruction of the safety net, income inequality, LGBT rights, climate change, gun proliferation, stupid middle East wars, "free trade" agreements that incentivise outsourcing, etc etc

The "Third Way" assumes the GOP in congress are rational actors and will make compromises that are in their own interests. We know that to be untrue. They're all crazy all the time. They've proven time and time again that they're unwilling to make any concessions in a compromise.

So "the left" make ALL the concessions in the mythical "centrist" compromise. The balance of power moves farther to the right in every exchange, never to the left.

[markpkessinger]

34. What is delusional is . . .

. . . the notion that the Democratic party can be all things to all people; that is, that it can simultaneously court the support of two divergent sets of interests that are fundamentally at odds with one another.

[U4ikLefty]

32. The first rule of Third Way is:

You do not talk about Third Way

[Andy823]

6. Exactly

But I still don't see those who use this "third way" scapegoat putting out any kind of real plans to change things, or as Peacetrain asked in another thread a list of acceptable candidates they think could help the party win more elections. Of course some want to purge the whole party, but then again who would they fill it with?

[RobertEarl]

16. May be you missed this from upthread?

Our leaders have lost touch

I am thinking the few elected officials in my area will be getting a contact from me telling them they must still have the touch and so they need to start using that power to appoint and bring forward new leaders. Those new leaders will be those who have proven they too still are in touch.

No more loud mouths who are in it for themselves and their own personal glory or money. The turnout proves the present day party leaders are failures. The only winners we have are those who got reelected this time, for they have shown they are in touch with the people.

[whereisjustice]

9. Billionaire conservatives funding campaigns and purchasing pro-wall street public policy? 3rd way.

[Number23]

19. You simply could not have nailed that any harder

It used to be the DLC or the DSCC or somebody that was the Boogedy Man around here. The last few years though, we've heard the endless (and BEYOND idiotic) screeching of THIRD WAY!! THIRD WAY!! as though this poorly heard of, remarkably unremarkable group is some amalgam of Count Dracula, Lord Voldemort and Santa Claus. Always there, always watching, always doing something evil, and it seems its main goal is keeping good liberals off of the ballot. I had never even heard of the Third Way until it became the Slender Man of DU a few years ago. The most I'd ever heard of anything they'd ACTUALLY done was when they posted a really stupid editorial about Elizabeth Warren in either the NYTimes or the Washington Post. And that was about a year ago.

As if the United States of America, including the numerous conservative states which comprise the union, would have put Kucinich in as president in a New York minute if only the THIRD WAY!! THIRD WAY!!! didn't exist. Good God. Either some folks are paranoid, uninformed and supremely divorced from reality, or as I have LONG since suspected, they have just simply GOT to be YANKING OUR CHAINS.

Lose an election? THIRD WAY!!!

Preferred candidate doesn't get nominated? THIRD WAY!!!

Pollls show no support for your idea? THIRD WAY!!!

People saying stuff you don't like on a Democratic website? THIRD WAY !!!!111

You nailed it.

[RobertEarl]

23. Eh?

William K. Black said that "Third Way is this group that pretends sometimes to be center-left but is actually completely a creation of Wall Street--it's run by Wall Street for Wall Street with this false flag operation as if it were a center-left group. It's nothing of the sort."



William Kurt Black (born September 6, 1951) is an American lawyer, academic, author, and a former bank regulator. Black's expertise is in white-collar crime, public finance, regulation, and other topics in law and economics. He developed the concept of "control fraud", in which a business or national executive uses the entity he or she controls as a "weapon" to commit fraud.

[Number23]

24. I'm really glad that William K Black's opinion is that important to you

[RobertEarl]

25. More than yours

You defend the turd way claiming anyone who describes it to explain why we lose elections, is devoid of intelligence like that that Black has.

Why do you like losing to republicans and the banksters?

[BeanMusical]

38. Good question.

[SidDithers]

46. Welcome to DU...nt

Sid

[msanthrope]

55. Seems like old times. nt

[BeanMusical]

107. Why, thank you!

[Number23]

87. Your post makes about as much sense as I'd expect from you

Between your putting words in my mouth that I did not say and never have, your juvenile little "turd way" taunt (which is truly the work of a great and powerful mind by the way), your beyond idiotic comment "why do you like losing to republicans and banksters?" which has no bearing on the conversation at hand and sounds like something a fourth grader whose been left behind a few grades would say, and your hilarious attempt to insult me by saying that you care about William K. Black's opinion more than mine as if that would in any way bother or hurt me, your entire post shows why the folks so concerned about the Third Way are probably a hundred times more of a problem to the Dem party than the Third Way could likely ever hope to be.

[RobertEarl]

94. Heh

Your reaction shows just how much you care about the turd way and its efforts to undermine real democratic ways.

Had you not said anything, you would have been more effective. Your response just shows how badly and how far you will go to prop up wall street.

Thanks. Good job.

[Number23]

96. You grow more incoherent by the second. How is that even possible??

I know that pulling stuff out of ones' hindquarters is a hallmark of this forum, but it does absolutely nothing if your aim is to have a conversation. And oh, I know that conversation is not and never has been your strong suit and you're not interested in one now -- you could not have made that more obvious -- but I just though I'd give you a heads up to be nice.

All of this sure that can't be good for the "ladies you're trying to meet" as per your profile. Which you've since deleted. Things not going well, huh?

[RobertEarl]

97. Eh?

At least i don't support the opposition!! I win!!

[Number23]

98. You win? Where? When did Ron Paul become president?

Or actually, knowing you and the well documented quality of your political acumen, when did the Easter Bunny?

[RobertEarl]

100. This is why i win

You lowering yourself to dumb personal attacks, and your words here, on this thread, show your undying support for the turd way. I don't, because the turd way is opposed to democracy.

[Number23]

102. Yes, because your continued insistence on lying about what I've said and my positions

are not "dumb personal attacks." Your steadfast insistence on pretending that I have said that I support the Third Way, Wall Street and others would be mildly amusing at the best of times, but combined with your juvenile taunts are far more indicative of someone who is about as important and has as much of a clue and influence as a bag of toenails.

Your comments in this thread could not have made my point better -- that the folks who scream and shout the loudest about the Third Way are in all likelihood FAR more detrimental to the Dem party than the Third Way could ever hope to be. So for real, thanks for that, honey.

[RobertEarl]

105. You have influenced me greatly

Before this thread and your words, I was like "Third way must not be too bad" but now you have convinced me that the 'third way' is a mortal enemy of democracy.

Thanks.

And your final attack on me telling me that I am bad for the party? Just goes to show you are not a friend and never were.

[Number23]

106. LOL Like you weren't crowing that stupidity already

But I love how you're pretending that it was my posts that made you believe something that you CLEARLY already believed in. In fact this was your FIRST POST in this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5778937. Did you think that you were the only person that could see it?? This is probably the dumbest, most pointless conversation I've had here all year and it HILARIOUS.

Just goes to show you are not a friend and never were.

Words cannot express how TRULY fine I am with that sentiment. There are far worse things in this world than to be "not friends" with political impotents who have no clue how governing works.

[RobertEarl]

108. Heh

Heh, you have just shown why the party lost this latest election. Attitudes like yours. You must be so proud to have cost us so many votes.

[Number23]

110. Bless your heart.

Poor thang.

[zappaman]

109. Those who use the term "turd way" remind me of Michael Savage.

That dipshit uses the term "turd world" instead of "third world".
Perhaps that's where Bob got it.

[Number23]

111. It blows my mind that they think it does anything other than make them look like fools

'Congress Critters' is something I've always thought was cute.

Republitards, Turd Way and other really stupid things like that only make the person saying it look mindless. And knowing that Michael Savage not only still uses the term "Third World" (which has been outdated for decades) but now actually calls it "turd world" makes me despise him even more. I didn't even think that was possible!

[RobertEarl]

112. You and za make a good pair n/t

[Number23]

114. Thanks, hun!

[zappaman]

115. Thanks!

Let's hope you find a "chick" to pair up with.
Nice to see you changed your profile about "checking out chicks since I'm available."

[treestar]

140. That is happening solely in your mind

And invoking "Wall Street" is amorphous and vague. You are making that into a boogeyman too. We have to have an economy and we are going to have banks, stocks and bonds. It's delusional to think to be a liberal you have to assume those things have to be gone and it's wrong to "prop" them, whatever that means. You "prop" Wall Street if you ever buy anything.

[AgingAmerican]

30. Oh, so now the third way is just a scapegoat!

Say the usual suspects....

[LostInAnomie]

33. Scapegoat, boogiemen, fevered dream of conspiracy nuts, etc.

?2

[AgingAmerican]

35. Say the usual suspects

nt

[LostInAnomie]

36. More conspiratorial language

Full of implication but zero actual substance.

[AgingAmerican]

37. No conspiracy

Just an observation. Ye shall know them by their defensiveness.

[Le Taz Hot]

45. You know, that graphic was

mildly amusing in an 8-year-old kind of way the first time you put it up there, but after the 500th time? Not so much. It makes you seem, well, limited.

[LostInAnomie]

67. Right... twice = 500.

Who's "limited" again?

[Le Taz Hot]

83. Then several of your cohorts are using it

because I've seen it over and over and over again. You guys, really, it's time to retire it already.

[Marr]

75. I'm trying to decipher your message.

Are you suggesting the Third Way/DLC is some kind of imaginary shadow organization dreamed up by conspiracy theorists, like the Illuminati? Or are you suggesting that this very openly existent political group is not actually active in... you know... politics?

[LostInAnomie]

122. It's really not that hard to decipher.

1. The Third Way are a real organization.

2. The Third Way consists of people with actual political influence.

3. People with actual political influence aren't going to waste their time or money to pay shills on a website that sees about 6-7k unique users a day.

4. People that claim "Third Way shills" are infiltrating DU are paranoid morons.

Pretty simple.

[Marr]

129. Point #3 is just wrong, I guarantee you.

At my old studio, we were sent an RFP from a very prominent software company once, asking us to put together instructional materials for exactly this sort of thing. Everyone from car manufacturers to sports franchises have paid people in forums, Facebook, blogs... social media of every kind.

It's considered an important piece of marketing nowadays, and if you don't think think tanks (whose only product is opinion) engage in it, I've got a bridge to sell you.

[LostInAnomie]

130. Where is the evidence then?

Where are the throngs to DUers astroturfing DU with threads supporting slashing Social Security? Where are all the pro-TPP posts? Pro-fracking posts? People supporting lowering the top-marginal tax rate on the rich?

They don't exist.

"Third Way" on DU has been rendered meaningless. It's used as in empty epithet to mean "anything or anyone I don't agree with".

[Marr]

131. I kid you not--

One of the points that was central to this RFP, as I recall it, was that you can never be a salesman. People are incredibly sophisticated about detecting advertising, and the person advertising to them immediately loses all credibility. It's about having a voice in an ongoing dialogue-- not posting overt sales pitches. It's very subtle stuff.

[cascadiance]

121. Third Way "lives" too!

[FSogol]

40. Perfect. This should be an OP and not just buried in a thread. n/t

[TBF]

41. LOL - it's the same group

as you well know. Same Wall Street $$$, takeover of the dem party. You'd have to be living under a rock not to know this. Very similar to PNAC on the right. They just change their name every few years to throw folks off but it's the same group of folks.

DLC Shut Down: The Democrats’ New Power Base
The Democratic Leadership Council may be shutting down, but the progressives haven't won. Centrism is alive and well in the think tank Third Way, whose advice on health care and the economy has swayed the White House.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/02/09/dlc-shutting-down-third-way-is-the-democrats-true-centrist-powerhouse.html

[Dragonfli]

48. It is also true that the DLC's Progressive Policy Institute

(their factory to recondition and re-brand RW policy for Democratic consumption) was left intact for continued use to augment their newer think tank (thirdway.org).

The Progressive Policy Institute (PPI) is a non-profit, 501(c)(3) organization that serves as a public policy think tank in the United States, founded in 1989. It styles itself as promoting the ideas of "New Democrats", covering a wide range of issues and describes itself as centrist.

Its founder and current president is Will Marshall, who writes on foreign policy, defense, national service, globalization, trade policy, and cultural issues. Its chief economic strategist is Michael Mandel, who writes on innovation, growth, and regulatory policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Policy_Institute

[Mnpaul]

116. Will Marshall

Will Marshall is one of the founders of the New Democrat movement, which aims to steer the US Democratic Party toward a more conservative orientation. Since its founding in 1989, he has been president of the Progressive Policy Institute, a think tank affiliated with the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC).

He served on the board of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, an organization chaired by Joe Lieberman (I) and John McCain (R) designed to build support for the invasion of Iraq. Marshall also signed, at the outset of the war, a letter issued by the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) expressing support for the invasion. Marshall signed a similar letter sent to President Bush put out by the Social Democrats USA on Feb. 25, 2003, just before the invasion. The SDUSA letter urged Bush to commit to "maintaining substantial U.S. military forces in Iraq for as long as may be required to ensure a stable, representative regime is in place and functioning."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Will_Marshall

Just what everyone wants more of here at DU

[Union Scribe]

27. All that water must be heavy. nt

[LostInAnomie]

29. Water is lighter than bullshit.

Cleaner too.

[Union Scribe]

31. I'll take your word for it.

Seems like the voice of experience.

[ReRe]

50. So, please tell us...

... how your credentials stack up against William K. Black's? Thanks.

[msanthrope]

56. Obviously, you are a paid shill for the Third Way.

[HereSince1628]

64. It's NOT impossible, or even IMPROBABLE that the 3rd way is both

an impossible position to hold as a traditional democrat and is also over used as a scapegot.

IMO the balance of the consideration of the former hangs on how the 3rd Way exists mostly to create an ediface to fend off attacks about how it ISN'T DINO.

[randys1]

101. But who is 3rd Way? Surely not Hillary, why would Bernie Sanders all but admit he

is going to run for president to HELP her, which is what he has basically said.

I want Bernie to run to help Hillary and push her more toward the left.

And that is his plan I think

[noiretextatique]

120. no, it is a wall street wet dream

because people are fooled by the D"s after their candidate's names. their economic goals are identical to the GOP"s, except they are willing to give the little people a few more crumbs.

[still_one]

126. Exactly. It is their mechanism to blame everything on Obama and Hillary etc. I just saw a post

That if only Grimes would have run as a progressive she would have won

Everyone needs a straw man

[treestar]

138. +1 No one on DU is part of the real third way but we will get called that

as a name calling exercise for being practical or supporting Obama or some Democrat.

[myrna minx]

141. Are the Koch brothers and ALEC paranoid fantasies of the left as well?

Is he corrupt and corporate Supreme Court part of the lefty delusion as well?

The third way is quite real and opposed to those of us who promote Keynesian economics - a tried and true economic recovery program with a proven track record.

The neo-liberals / 3rd wayers support demonstrated disastrous trade deals like NAFTA as well as "voodoo" trickle down economics that have created the largest transfer of wealth from the poor and middle class to the ultra wealthy in the country's history. I assure you they the Philosophy of the Chicago school of Economics is quite real, regardless of the "rofl"s by some here to try to make them out to be some mythical foil. I can assure you they are not.

[Man from Pickens]

8. If there were any daylight between "3rd Way" and "cynical justifications for hypercorporatism"

I can't see it. Perhaps someone with better eyes than mine can point it out.

[adirondacker]

10. Thanks for posting. K&R! nt

[woo me with science]

11. I agree strongly overall but would rephrase a bit.

Last edited Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:01 AM - Edit history (2)

I would say the Third Way is a group of CORPORATISTS. Yes, it is a creation of Wall Street. We tend to equate Republicans and corporatists because the Republican Party was infiltrated by Wall Street first and has been working for corporate interests for a long time.

But the truth is that traditional Republicanism was corrupted by the corporate monsters just as much as the Democratic Party is being corrupted now. The corporatists lie to Republicans as much as they lie to us. Just as our corporate politicians lie to us about wanting to protect public education, social justice and the social safety nets, unions, and the environment, their politicians lie to them about wanting to stand for small government, limited government interference in private lives, and the defense of civil liberties. Yet no matter which party is elected, we get the same corporate monster agenda of larger, more oppressive and authoritarian government, assaults on and privatization of public services, and more warmongering.

Every poll shows that Republicans are just as angry about what is being done to this country as we are. We drown in corporate propaganda to make us hate and blame each other so we won't realize that that we are ALL victims and so we won't unite to demand our representation back. They want it to be more viscerally repulsive to us to ever think about uniting with a Republican on ANYTHING, even than to defend our Bill of Rights and our democratic representation. Even though we keep getting the same suicidal, predatory agenda under both parties, we are to circle the wagons when it's our guy in office.

I think being clear that corporatists are the enemy is important because we have got to break the con game of hyperpartisanship they use to keep us divided, and teach ALL Americans that we have a stake in getting corporate money out of government. The truth is that we can beat traditional Republicans at the ballot box. But right now, we don't even get the chance to do that. The system has been purchased by Wall street, and they aren't running traditional Republicans *or* traditional Democrats for office anymore. They are running corporatists on both sides.

We need to become the 99 percent to take our representation back. We don't have to agree on everything. Just that our representation has been stolen from ALL of us by corporate corruption of our government and elections. And that we demand corporate money and power out of government and the political system so we can have our representation back.

K&R

[whereisjustice]

13. Great points. Once again, your insight is correct and appreciated.

[rhett o rick]

14. Well said woo. nm

[MrMickeysMom]

15. Yes, sir- eeeeeeee

I'd drink to that, but it's bed time, so I'll dream to it!

[99Forever]

44. Yup.

What Woo said.

[ReRe]

52. Keep on talking...

... you're speaking for all of us real Democrats today!

[2banon]

57. This Woo! It's OP Worthy!!

[MissDeeds]

72. Nailed it, as usual

Thanks, Woo

[Zorra]

78. Well said. nt

[Barack_America]

127. Please post this as an OP.

[Oilwellian]

12. Great post

"Third Way is this group that pretends sometimes to be center-left but is actually completely a creation of Wall Street--it's run by Wall Street for Wall Street with this false flag operation as if it were a center-left group. It's nothing of the sort."

This should have been a clue when it appeared during the 2008 campaign.

[Rex]

20. Oh dear!

Now you made the 1% minions all mad! Shame on you!

[MisterP]

21. that and the constant bullying tactics, the reactionary policies, the intent to remove any

representativeness from the party and turn it into a self-perpetuating meat machine, the bankrupt everything

it's like creationism: except for the science, philosophy, theology, morality, and social and psychological factors it's quite all right!

[whereisjustice]

39. +1

[Marr]

26. I love it when the usual dopes try to act like "Third Way" is an epithet, or some kind of

conspiracy theory.

[Rex]

42. The Third Way apologists are trying desperately to come up

with excuses. Everyone is laughing out loud at their transparency.

[Maedhros]

73. So please, expound upon the many positive traits of the Third Way for us. [n/t]

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Third Way is packed with conservatives who opposed marriage equality until the issue served them

now they exploit an affected but insincere support for the issue, the very issue they preached hard against for years and years and years. Hypocrites, exploitative bullshit artists and conservative bigots.

[Marr]

118. Yep-- I remember that very clearly.

Even right here, just a few short years ago, the exact same people who now sprinkle their posts with smilies holding rainbow flags and cite all the progress gays have made in the Obama years, were saying we needed to shut-up about Rick Warren's inclusion in Obama's inauguration, and describing gay marriage activists as people 'pouting over a pony they didn't get'.

[woo me with science]

49. kick

[HereSince1628]

58. It's not advocaty of third way that's wrong IT'S THE THIRD WAY THAT IS WRONG!!!!!!

I love my fellow DUers no matter how challenged they are

[hifiguy]

59. A spot-on analysis.

The DLC sold the Party to the 1%. The Turd Way is just the latest incarnation of the same mindset. It is a cancer on the Party, primarily because it actively refutes virtually everything that the Democratic Party stood for from 1932 until 1992.

[ReRe]

60. K&R

We need to pound thi$ problem into the ground, until it is no more.
And thanks for quoting William K. Black on the definition.
Conceivably, there may very well be someone here that does not know what the "Third Way" is.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

63. This is an old war in the party. Left vs Right. Not as Bad vs Progressives.

[Zorra]

76. Excellent, a keeper, thank you!

[Progressive dog]

91. I get that rather than discuss actual ideas,

it is easier to blame everything on the imagined puppet masters.

[BootinUp]

93. Let's see...cause it doesn't help? Just a guess. nt

[Scuba]

95. K&R

[L0oniX]

103. I thought this was a Manny op at first.

[daredtowork]

104. ROFLMAO! nt

[Orsino]

113. Third Way is unealthy for children and other living things. n/t

[Mnpaul]

117. It's their plan and they brag about it

1) The measurements of the costs of health impairing pollution depends on the foregone earnings from increased morbidity and mortality. From this point of view a given amount of health impairing pollution should be done in the country with the lowest cost, which will be the country with the lowest wages. I think the economic logic behind dumping a load of toxic waste in the lowest wage country is impeccable and we should face up to that.

2) The costs of pollution are likely to be non-linear as the initial increments of pollution probably have very low cost. I've always thought that under-populated countries in Africa are vastly UNDER-polluted, their air quality is probably vastly inefficiently low compared to Los Angeles or Mexico City. Only the lamentable facts that so much pollution is generated by non-tradable industries (transport, electrical generation) and that the unit transport costs of solid waste are so high prevent world welfare enhancing trade in air pollution and waste.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summers_memo

These people disgust me.

[woo me with science]

134. Sadly, that's not just words.

[woo me with science]

133. kick

[woo me with science]

135. kick

[Zorra]

136. kick

[mstinamotorcity2]

137. The question is.....

What's not wrong with these so-called Dems ??

[woo me with science]

142. kick