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Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:18 AM Nov 2014

We're going to need to take quite a few conservative districts and states to get Congress back

There's no way around that.

Cook political does a cool table of districts by partisan lean, which I'm using the data from.

The GOP had 15 pick-ups Tuesday, mostly in slightly Republican districts (average R+1.5 or so). The Democrats had three pick-ups (I had said two in an earlier thread, which was wrong: we beat two incumbents and picked up another from a retiring GOP incumbent). The two incumbents we beat were just on the red side of swing districts (FL-2 and NE-2, both R+6), and the retiring incumbent we picked off was in CA-31, which is D+5.

I want to make the point that the "playing field" here, as it were, was mostly slightly red districts, that is, districts whose voters are not liberal. There's no need to construct some scenario by which this was a secret request for progressive politicians: conservative voters elected conservative candidates.

The GOP currently holds 10 districts that are D+1 or more. The most Democratic is IL-10, which is D+8. (Between D+4 and R+4 or so is considered a "swing district".) Second place is NY-24, where Katko (R) just won by nearly 20 points (does anybody know what the hell happened there?). In a Presidential year we should do well in those districts. But we need 38 new districts to take back the House, so that means we need 28 red districts that are currently GOP-held (we already hold 9, thanks to those Blue Dogs that everybody here loves to hate on). This also means that we will need to add 28 moderate/conservative Democrats to our caucus.

Now, gerrymandering is a lot of the problem here, but simply stomping our feet and screaming about that doesn't actually change it: we need to take those districts, period, as badly drawn as they are. (But then again sensibly-drawn districts that follow geographic and jurisdictional lines still disadvantage us, because we crowd so many voters into cities -- there's no red districts that are even close to as red as the bluest districts are blue, because we always have some voters in rural areas whereas there are essentially no Republican voters in urban cores.) And, for that matter, obviously gerrymandering had nothing to do with losing the Senate.

Currently the reddest district we hold is MN-7, R+6, Colin Peterson. We had two more redder districts in the 113th, but lost them. This is especially troubling because once you lose a cross-party district like that it's much harder to get it back because of the strength of incumbency -- Gene Taylor and Ike Skelton could hold their districts for decades despite a high partisan clash with their constituents (pork works...), but now that we've lost those there's not a realistic way to get either district back any time soon.

On the plus side, the 38 districts we need pretty much exactly fit in the districts that classify as "swing", along with the districts that are blue that we need to take back. If we run the table from R+1 up, we only have to get into the R+4 districts. However, we will not run that table: incumbents are very difficult to beat, and we need to watch for retirements, scandals, etc. and strike then and there. That could move us pretty far into R+ territory, though: some of the R+6 to R+9 districts. Our two candidates that beat Republican incumbents, Graham in Florida and Ashford in Nebraska, prove that this can be done if we have the right candidate and they run the right campaign (and, in fact, in both of those cases that involved distancing themselves from Obama and the national party). Kyrsten Sinema in AZ is another recent example of a Democrat that can take (and, now, hold) a red district.

People here are gnashing their teeth about the party turning more conservative and how ridiculous that is as a response to the mid-terms, but the simple fact is that conservative districts are where we need to start making wins. There aren't many liberal districts that the GOP is holding. Winning conservative districts will mean finding and running conservative Democrats in those districts, which will mean moving the caucus as a whole somewhat to the right.

26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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We're going to need to take quite a few conservative districts and states to get Congress back (Original Post) Recursion Nov 2014 OP
2022 is the earliest we can get the House back. The Gerrymandering is that bad. yourout Nov 2014 #1
We should do well with the Senate in 2016 Recursion Nov 2014 #3
taking Senate is no guarantee, but the map and demographics favor us pstokely Nov 2014 #21
I posted a summary of Krysten Sinema JonLP24 Nov 2014 #2
I saw that, which was why I mentioned her Recursion Nov 2014 #4
Sinema is not really a good example. former9thward Nov 2014 #5
Cook puts it at R+1, which I guess is within the margin of error Recursion Nov 2014 #6
The partisan index table mentions that JonLP24 Nov 2014 #8
I don't know how many of the young actually vote. former9thward Nov 2014 #24
I don't know actually voted in this election except for myself JonLP24 Nov 2014 #25
Depends on the Presidency madville Nov 2014 #7
Mutiny!! RobertEarl Nov 2014 #9
In all seriousness: why do you think Grayson would be good? Recursion Nov 2014 #10
Of course not RobertEarl Nov 2014 #12
He's also lost in Florida Recursion Nov 2014 #14
Lets see RobertEarl Nov 2014 #19
Hey, where'd ya go? RobertEarl Nov 2014 #26
Helped him win his district, where the partisan lean has widened in his term. SolutionisSolidarity Nov 2014 #16
It's also helped him lose his district Recursion Nov 2014 #17
Seeing the dismal results that your stellar leaders have peddled makes me say that. SolutionisSolidarity Nov 2014 #20
They should have ran on issues Democrats already support JonLP24 Nov 2014 #22
If conservative Democrats could win these seats, we wouldn't be gnashing our teeth. SolutionisSolidarity Nov 2014 #11
The voters there love coal, hate environmentalists, love fracking, love keystone Recursion Nov 2014 #13
Agree she needed coal country JonLP24 Nov 2014 #18
I think early balloting would help a lot JonLP24 Nov 2014 #15
Polling locations can be tricky LeftInTX Nov 2014 #23

yourout

(7,531 posts)
1. 2022 is the earliest we can get the House back. The Gerrymandering is that bad.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:24 AM
Nov 2014

Only a complete economic collapse brought on by President Walker in 2018 could shorten the timeline.

Step#1. Get back the Govs by 2020 so the Gerrymandering can be fixed.
Step#2. Get back the house.

The Senate we can get back quicker but it won't be easy.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
3. We should do well with the Senate in 2016
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:28 AM
Nov 2014

It's a Presidential year and the GOP has to defend 23 seats, which were won in 2010.

But, yeah, we may have to wait until 2022 to get the House back, sadly, but I don't think we shouldn't try.

pstokely

(10,529 posts)
21. taking Senate is no guarantee, but the map and demographics favor us
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:57 AM
Nov 2014

whoever wins the WH gets the senate also

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
2. I posted a summary of Krysten Sinema
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:25 AM
Nov 2014

The interesting thing about that is she is a former Green who worked on Ralph Nader's campaign. Her opponent had some pretty big gaffes but I'm still trying to find more information on voter breakdown. It has an unusually high young voter population due to ASU campus but the district has solid 1% conservatives to the north and middle-class Republican strongholds to the West.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025771285

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
4. I saw that, which was why I mentioned her
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:30 AM
Nov 2014

I think she demonstrates that we don't have to simply be "republican lite" to take red districts: we can find and run centrist Democrats, which is a different thing.

former9thward

(32,025 posts)
5. Sinema is not really a good example.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:30 AM
Nov 2014

AZ -9 is not a red district. In 2012 it went for Obama 51-47 while almost the rest of AZ went for Romney. Indies outnumber Rs and Ds but break for Ds by a 60-40 margin.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
6. Cook puts it at R+1, which I guess is within the margin of error
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:33 AM
Nov 2014

And she's kind of sui generis in a lot of ways anyways....

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
8. The partisan index table mentions that
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:42 AM
Nov 2014

I think the registration numbers slightly favor Republicans based on registration numbers but it is a 1/3 split for party identification but I think it was young voters that swung the district it Obama's favor. Romney won Independents 51% to 45%. But I'm still trying to find voter breakdown which is very difficult at this time.

However, partisan index could probably change after this election.

former9thward

(32,025 posts)
24. I don't know how many of the young actually vote.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:14 PM
Nov 2014

I have been on the ASU campus gathering signatures and it is very difficult to find a registered voter or at least registered voters in CD 9. Many are registered someone else (they think). Also in the Tempe area young people move at a very high rate. They usually don't re-register at the new address. I go into bars nightly by ASU which are mostly young and almost none of them vote. I saw posts by my FB friends bragging about how they did not vote and "their generation" had seen through the fraud of voting.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
25. I don't know actually voted in this election except for myself
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:19 PM
Nov 2014

That is what I'm trying to find out but unlikely I'll ever come across that sort of information. Seriously doubt there were significant margins from Mesa.

I'm 27 so here is 1 for young vote in that district.

madville

(7,412 posts)
7. Depends on the Presidency
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:41 AM
Nov 2014

Republican win in 2016 and we possibly can get the House back by 2018. Democratic presidency win in 2016 and we probably don't get a shot at getting the House back until 2020 or 2022.

The Senate is in play for 2016 since all the 2010 tea party class will be up for reelection.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
9. Mutiny!!
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:44 AM
Nov 2014

We need to get rid of the local leaders who failed to get the vote out. That's the first step.

Then find candidates that want to win and who can talk the Democratic message of all for one and one for all.

At the top of the party heads are already rolling. Let's roll some more. We need Grayson in a leadership role.

All hands on deck. Mutiny is our duty!!

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
10. In all seriousness: why do you think Grayson would be good?
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:47 AM
Nov 2014

What has he done that makes you think he'd be a good party leader? I see a guy who likes to say stuff that riles up the left. Is that what you think is going to help us win?

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
12. Of course not
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:51 AM
Nov 2014

Riling up the left and winning in Florida and accomplishing lots of things in congress is just no good. <eh?>

Why do you hate Grayson?

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
14. He's also lost in Florida
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:52 AM
Nov 2014

What does riling up the left accomplish? It's not liberal districts that we need to take back from the GOP.

Has anything Alan Grayson said ever convinced a conservative or moderate to vote for a Democrat?

(Hint: you don't win voters over by telling them they are stupid and wrong...)

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
19. Lets see
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:09 AM
Nov 2014

Grayson, or Recursion.... gosh, which one should someone chose to help figure out how to win elections??

You may not know this, but elections are often won with passion. And that the leftists are usually the ones who have the most passion to get out there and do the work, and set examples for others to go vote.

Personally, when I last did it, we won a republican seat and later lost it to a republican when the leftists said Fuck it and stayed home. So, yeah, leftists win elections even for blue dogs, duh?

Why do you hate leftists?

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
26. Hey, where'd ya go?
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:41 PM
Nov 2014

One thing I really like about Grayson is that he riles up the conservatives. Just look at the responses you've given to the suggestion that Grayson is a new leader in the party.

Lawd knows the Koch brothers get riled up when Grayson's name comes up.

16. Helped him win his district, where the partisan lean has widened in his term.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:02 AM
Nov 2014

Even staunch Republicans I know picked up the "Republican Healthcare Plan" line. We need more people like him who are unapologetic and confident. Your typical democratic candidate is so busy telling everyone they aren't like those other Democrats that you begin to think that Democrats must just be terrible.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
17. It's also helped him lose his district
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:04 AM
Nov 2014
We need more people like him who are unapologetic and confident.

Do we? What makes you say that?
20. Seeing the dismal results that your stellar leaders have peddled makes me say that.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:43 AM
Nov 2014

I've watched your strategy fail to reach those conservative southern voters you covet so much first hand. You never even pause to consider all those people who actually are reachable. But those people are poor, and they'd expect you to do things to help them. I get the impression you'd rather not do that. Wouldn't want the peasant class getting all entitled.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
22. They should have ran on issues Democrats already support
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:07 AM
Nov 2014

70% support minimum wage increase and passed in several states incuding Arkansas who they elected to Senate doesn't.

#t=696
11. If conservative Democrats could win these seats, we wouldn't be gnashing our teeth.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:49 AM
Nov 2014

BTW, I've seen that phrase quite a few times from the sensible left today. I guess it's the new "you just want a pony" bullshit. But if you hate environmentalists, love coal, love fracking, love keystone, love guns, love war, hate "Obamacare", and still nominally call yourself a "Democrat", you just might have been one of our failed 2014 Senatorial candidates. Running as the other Republican candidate doesn't even work in the South.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
13. The voters there love coal, hate environmentalists, love fracking, love keystone
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:51 AM
Nov 2014

love guns, and hate Obamacare.

That means for the most part the representative will too.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
18. Agree she needed coal country
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:05 AM
Nov 2014

In Kentucky's Coal Country, A Resentment For Obama

If the voters in Louisa, Ky., had their wish, Mitt Romney would have taken the oath of office Monday. Louisa is in eastern Kentucky, and "coal" was the one-word issue in the election. President Obama is seen as an enemy of coal mining and he got only 27 percent of the vote in the county.

And now comes word that Louisa is going to lose its biggest industry — a power generating plant that's been burning coal since 1962.

Stand outside the courthouse in Louisa, a small town of 2,000 people, and you'll see that it's easy to meet a coal miner. Mitchell Maynard is a third-generation miner. He's not happy with the president.

"Anything to do with coal, Obama's against it, so that hurt us real bad," Maynard says. "I mean, everybody's losing their job. I just got back to work just two weeks ago from being laid off. Everybody you talk to's against coal anymore."

http://www.npr.org/2013/01/21/169913701/in-kentuckys-coal-country-a-resentment-for-obama

McConnell ended up doing better than he did last election in coal counties

McConnell crushed Grimes with 72 percent of the vote in Harlan, up from 54 percent in 2008. As the following chart shows, the eight counties where McConnell improved the most over 2008 are all coal producers:

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2014-11-05/mitch-mcconnells-win-by-the-numbers

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
15. I think early balloting would help a lot
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 12:57 AM
Nov 2014

I wouldn't know at going about but it would help for those who don't show up to the polls. Also registration process--a poll I found from 2010 (which I can't found) indicated high numbers for young voters for didn't know registration process or where to vote but work got the highest percent.

You'd need to have candidates that young voters actually want to come to the polls and vote for but it is just a suggestion.

LeftInTX

(25,383 posts)
23. Polling locations can be tricky
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:21 AM
Nov 2014

Where I live the early voting locations are at any public library. Actual election day, however, the location can vary. Also young people may not be aware of early voting hours and locations. It is also hard to get young people motivated for midterms. If they don't see their candidate on TV, as in a presidential or governor's election, it's a bit of a disconnect.

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