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madokie

(51,076 posts)
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 04:24 AM Nov 2014

Wall Street Can Now Disable Your Car When You're Driving on the Freeway

People with poor credit are being sold cars with GPS-based kill switches.


Imagine this scenario: You’re on an important trip miles from home and stopped in traffic, but before you can continue on your way, your car shuts down. You’ve got enough gas in the tank and no mechanical problems. But you’re stranded far from home because you’re a few days late on your car payment and the lender won’t let you drive until the debt is paid.

If this sounds like part of a dystopian future in which repo men are now cyborgs, it’s not. It’s happening today and becoming a big part of the new automotive landscape. Car dealers and automotive lenders are targeting those with poor credit by installing GPS-based kill switches, or starter-interrupt devices, on the cars that they sell.

The New York Times recently reported that about 2 million cars are now outfitted with such kill switches in the U.S., which is about one-quarter of subprime car loans, and creditors are not shy when it comes to remotely disabling cars whose owners are behind on their payments:

"Some borrowers say their cars were disabled when they were only a few days behind on their payments, leaving them stranded in dangerous neighborhoods. Others said their cars were shut down while idling at stoplights. Some described how they could not take their children to school or to doctor’s appointments. One woman in Nevada said her car was shut down while she was driving on the freeway.


http://www.alternet.org/subprime-lending-car-buyers-fueling-bubble?paging=off¤t_page=1#bookmark
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strategery blunder

(4,225 posts)
1. Then the lenders SHOULD be held solely and fully liable for the resulting crashes
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 04:45 AM
Nov 2014

and all damages resulting therefrom.

There is something called a lien, and established legal process to exercise said lien...

...Instead road safety and human life is worth literally nothing to lenders who can't even wait to repo until the car is parked. How many drivers can reasonably recover from their car suddenly getting "kill switched" remotely while in moving traffic? It's not like subprime borrowers have access to the kinds of simulator-based contingency training that pilots do. A traditional repo can be responded to and contested. A repo of a vehicle in motion might not leave anyone alive to avail themselves of due process.

The equitable thing to do would be to hold lenders responsible for liablility for accidents originating from the activation of a kill switch on a vehicle that was in active operation. Of course since the crooks control Congress now, they'll probably pass a subsidy for the kill switches instead.

This kind of shit makes me glad I had the financial ability to buy my (used, then-40k miles) car on a credit card instead of having to deal with this crap. Yeah, CC interest was higher, but it was unsecured, I don't have to worry about liens and crap, and I'd be guaranteed that the bank would have to sue me before sending the repo guy; the repo could only occur after court judgement. (That was four years ago and the car depreciated more so it's probably close to untouchable in bankruptcy court, now, too, not to mention the matter that I've paid the card down since.) The whole notion that there are drivers out on the road with me who could have their cars shut off because they're 2 days overdue on a payment is frightening.

Even if the GPS would only kill switch it while the car was stopped (say, idling at that red light), what about the drivers behind when the light turns green? Still creates a wholly unnecessary obstruction (and oooh it can't get out of the way of that upcoming siren!) because lenders are too lazy/impatient/greedy to do repo the correct way.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,330 posts)
3. I'm sure some of the usual suspects conserva-Dems will be along shortly....
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 05:00 AM
Nov 2014

.... with the " bla bla bla they should pay their bills bla bla bla." Completely disregarding any human dignity or compassion.

Whenever they show up I think of this guy:

https://m.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,330 posts)
2. I thought I heard a blurb on the radio that this technology helped catch ...
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 04:50 AM
Nov 2014

.... the kidnapper in Philly that snatched that woman off the street.

That said, as someone who use to work in the car finance (including sub-prime) business, I'm against this. It's degrading and subject to abuse.

I wonder if some of these practices violate state or federal consumer protection and lending laws. It used to be, we would send the sub-prime lender a set of keys when we sold the contract. The lender wanted the keys to make repossession easier. Someone sued and that practice ended. The lender only has a security interest in the event of repossession and it seems meddling in the owner's use, short of repossession, could violate ownership rights. Yeah yeah, I know it's legal - until it isn't. Just like keeping a set of keys.

I also wonder if harassing the debtor via audio in the vehicle could step over the line of fair lending laws regarding harassment in collections. Not to mention violations of confidentiality - are other occupants of the vice made privy to collection efforts?

A guy I used to work with told me in the "old days" they would put an "x" in the top corner of the faxed credit app to let the lender know the borrower was black. He also told me of a lender that would pre-repo the car before the first payment was due as a warning the lender was serious - "come get your car. Next time you won't see it again"

Shit like this is always going to be abused. Until someone sues and makes the lender pay.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
5. Do they just disable it or disable and then repossess?
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 07:22 AM
Nov 2014

If this is to make repossessions easier, that at least makes some sense from a business standpoint for the dealer. If they're just stranding buyers to punish them, it's going to make it harder for them to get their money in the end.

drm604

(16,230 posts)
4. Some person who's paid their bills will have their car shut down due to a bug or hackers.
Fri Nov 7, 2014, 07:19 AM
Nov 2014

We know from recent events that credit cards can't be protected, so why would this be any different?

Could this become a matter of national defense? What happens if a majority, or even a large minority, of cars on the road are equipped with this technology and Chinese government hackers turn them all off?

It might not even take a government, a bunch of idiot teenage hackers might do it.

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