The TPP and Keystone XL pipeline

[SHRED]

When Obama speaks of what he and this new Congress can come to agreements on are these two included?

These disasters should have no place in the Democratic Party.

[SHRED]

1. I will add that if they do find a home in the Democratic Party...

... then I think the damage to the party will be unrepairable.

[belzabubba333]

2. i heard mitchy the turtle say he had 61 votes for kxl

[SHRED]

4. Blue Dogs are terrible scum

[djean111]

3. Yes. These are what he is talking about.

Watch out - you will be called a ratfucker if you speak against these horrible things.
I think the Dems in the Senate may have been mindful of us peons telling them we would be watching how they voted on this, and so there was resistance to Fast Track.
Doesn't matter now, does it.

[SHRED]

6. I remember a speech Obama gave in 2006 or 07

It was at a university. It was on the environment and clean energy. It was so progressive and forward looking.

Where did that guy go?

[nationalize the fed]

8. Candidate Obama talks about NAFTA

[SHRED]

9. there he his... oh well

I find it sadly humorous that many on this board deny he was ever a progressive. He sure talked like one.

[Proud Public Servant]

5. Plus chained CPI

and (less disastrously, unless you're a Fed like me) some kind of federal employee pay freeze and workforce reduction. Obama has actively championed Keystone, TPP, and chained CPI, and has not stood in the way of federal employees being thrown under the bus in the past.

[SHRED]

7. Again

Sad we have a Blue Dog President that presented himself as a progressive.

[earthside]

10. Might as well be a climate denier ...

... if one supports TPP and XL Keystone.

Global warming is the battle. Period.

Reading Naomi Klein's new book 'This Changes Everything' puts this issue in the context it deserves -- we either deal with this impending disaster forthrightly or we perish.

[Recursion]

11. XL Keystone isn't a climate change issue but a local safety issue

The same amount of oil gets pumped and refined no matter how it's transported

[earthside]

15. Tar sands mining is not pumping.

The devastation associated with tar sands oil is significant.

The U.S. should not do anything to promote the expansion of mining tar sands for petroleum.

Pres. Obama cannot be advocating that climate change is a serious problem, but then say 'yes' to the XL Keystone pipeline without being a hypocrite.

[Recursion]

16. But the mining happens whether the oil goes out in a pipeline

Or in boats and trains.

Canada is going to extract the oil at the rate they can no matter what. That's why EPA reported it was not a climate change issue.

[earthside]

17. It is Wrong for the U.S. to participate in tar sand production

How Much Will Tar Sands Oil Add to Global Warming?
Scientific American

[hatrack]

18. Fine. They can ship it east to Halifax and not pipe it across the Ogalalla.

Call me crazy, but I think protecting the world's largest fresh-water fossil aquifer is kind of a national priority.

[Wellstone ruled]

12. Couple of thingees we have to say.

(1) We have family members who are TSA employees,in saying that,did you know that these folks have not had a raise since Obama froze their pay several years ago. And they have children to care for,and that ain't cheap. BTW,in some cities,TSA employees only move in and out of the Airports to their Autos in pairs due to threats form certain emigres.
l
(2) This Keystone Pipe was a done deal. Most of the pipe is either on the railcars or has been prepositioned along the right a way. Wondered why certain states were targeted with all the Koch money,now we know. Prediction: Tom Daschle and Richard Gephart pop up out of their hiddy holes soon. When you have work a day family members who do pipe lin.e work,you do get so idea as to what happens in the real world. There are only so many welders and fitters left in the U.S.,guess most folks don't like high paying get your hands dirty jobs,and these folks are on their way to or are already at their R/V parks or Man-Camps. Some of this pipe has to be done in the Winter months because of Bog conditions.

(3)Chained CPI will really mess up most retirees. Social Security has by no means kept up with inflation and with this Chained garbage we will only see more Seniors on the street FDR in his speechs warned us of this and here we go. Just another of the New Deal program being dismantlement by the Elites. Oh that's right,the Churches will back stop any needs of our Seniors,well,that one of the reasons for the Social Security system because a charity system failed to materialize.

[n2doc]

13. TPP is the big one

Keystone, for all the clamor, is a literal drop in the bucket of CO2-sources. It is not like that Canadian Oil is going to stay up there without a pipeline. Trains are already running non-stop with that oil.

TPP has the potential to destroy what environmental and labor laws we have left. Along with outsourcing a lot more jobs. That's the one betrayal I am not looking forwards to.

[glinda]

14. TPP deregulates environmental everything giving final power outside of the Country=final nail.