Can someone please name which Third Way statewide officeholders should be purged from the party?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Thank you in advance.

[NCTraveler]

1. Can I give you one who is not an office holder....

but wants to be one extremely bad. And yes, I would like to see their ability to run as a Democrat removed. I know that isn't possible.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Sure...With all this talk of purges I would like to see some names .../NT

[NCTraveler]

8. Here you go.

He was on McCains short list for VP.

[Smarmie Doofus]

3. Can you define "purged"?

I think if DEM primaries nominate them... obviously a prereq ( at least in the vast majority of cases)... to being elected statewide, the idea of "purging" them is a no go.

[AgingAmerican]

4. Third way candidates lose elections

And they believe the fix is to compromise even more.

[wyldwolf]

12. what do the words "lose" and "elections" mean in your world?

[LadyHawkAZ]

61. Yeah, like that one guy... whatzhisname... people keep telling me he's Third Way...

Ran for President two years ago on our ticket. Helluva loss.

[Glitterati]

5. This is just flame bait

nothing more, nothing less.

The purge needs to be of the string pullers. Like the people who told Ashley Judd to bow out of the KY senate race.

But, you go ahead, attack the very people who you NEED to vote for your candidates.

That will spur turnout at the next election, yes siree, bob! </sarcasm>

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. How is it flame bait ?

I see calls for "Third Wayers to be ignored with extreme prejudice".

How can I ignore somebody if I don't who he or she is?

[NCTraveler]

10. Your point about possible direction of a purge is spot on. nt.

[treestar]

77. Did you say that of the post that said the party should be purged?

That was flame bait too if this is.

[SolutionisSolidarity]

7. Diane Fienstein, Andrew Cuomo, and Cory Booker would be a good start.

The self-identify as New Democrats, so you can read their membership lists for yourself. But worse than the Democratic politicians themselves are all the established party elders who control our party behind the scenes. Their self reported story is given in Al From's book "The New Democrats and the Return to Power", and it details how they destroyed the foundation of our Party and transformed it into an anti-New Deal corporate entity.

That is, if you were actually looking for an answer, and not just eager for another chance to compare us to Stalinists by using scare-words like "purge".

[onenote]

16. And what would you do to remove them from the party?

Isn't that the question? Feinstein is 81. Her term runs until January 2019. She probably isn't running again, even though she did win in 2012 by the largest margin in her career. So how do propose to remove her before then?

Cuomo: Just re-elected to a four year term as Governor of the second largest state in the nation (and second largest Democratic stronghold). How do you get rid of him?

Booker -- Just elected to a full six year term as Senator. Again, how do you remove him?

[SolutionisSolidarity]

44. If I could do it by myself, I'd be doing it and not talking about it.

Removing bad elected Democrats is the easy part, compared to rooting out the bad Party bosses. I don't even know if the Democratic Party is save-able. The Party leadership is certain that it doesn't need to be reformed. If the faithful agree, or at least don't disagree loudly, it won't be reformed. This is going to take us organizing and demanding better representation. It will take primaries. It will take a ground swell of people getting involved in the local party apparatus. Maybe we (collectively) aren't mad enough for that yet. But if we don't start now, the future of this Party and likely the country is bleak.

[onenote]

47. Tell me about this "easy" part.

Using the three examples you gave: Feinstein, Cuomo, and Booker. How do "remove" them either from offices they are going to hold for the next four to six years or from running again? Explain how it will be "easy" to do, given that it hasn't been done so far. From your own description, it certainly doesn't sound "easy."

[SolutionisSolidarity]

50. It's only easy compared to getting rid of their unelected brethren in the party infrastructure.

I was pretty clear on that. These politicians can't be removed from office in the short term unless they are recalled or impeached, but they can be rendered pariahs then defeated in the next election cycle.

[merrily]

52. Ask the OP. It's his or her framing.

[muriel_volestrangler]

107. And you chose the name "SolutionisSolidarity"?

What's happened since then, for you to think the 'solution' is to split?

[SolutionisSolidarity]

117. I want solidarity with the poor, the excluded, and the downtrodden.

That means I have to oppose those who don't really have their back.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. Thank you. Now I know who to be wary of...

How about Bill Nelson and Mark Warner?

They are on my Third Waydar.

[Glitterati]

11. Here's the beginning of MY list

James Carville
Paul Begala
Zell Miller
Bill Clinton
Ed Rendell
Erskine Bowles

Just to name a few.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. I don't believe any are officeholders./NT

So all of our 174 representatives, 46 or so senators, and 18 governors are okay.


I was hard for me to write those paltry numbers without grieving.

[AgingAmerican]

15. They don't need to be office holders

...to damage the party. They just need to be advocates.

[merrily]

53. The OP specified both that they be officeholders and that

their fate be purging from the party. I guess, whose voter registration should be revoked? Is that even a possiblity?

[AgingAmerican]

56. The third way needs to be revoked

Their stated goal is to drive Democratic economic policy to the right, which has done nothing but damage the country and the Democratic party. They need to go away and take their Koch money with them. They need to be purged like cat poop from a Labrador Retrievers stomach.

[merrily]

58. What a visual!

I hate the DLC/Third Way/No Labels philosophy. It destroyed the Party I love.

[AgingAmerican]

60. Yesterday my friends lab...

...got to the cat box before we could catch her. A couple hours later she was laying the corner, groaning with foam coming from the corners of her mouth. She then puked......and we almost hurled when we saw what had made her so groggy.....

[merrily]

62. I figured it was based on something you'd witnessed. It's not exactly a standard analogy.

[AgingAmerican]

14. More

James Clyburn
John Dingell
Allyson Schwartz
Jared Pollis

...just to name a few more...

[onenote]

17. John Dingell?

He's 88 and retired. Don't you mean Debbie, his wife who was just elected to fill his seat?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. Grover Norquist said "he wanted to make the Democratic party so small you could fit in a bathtub."

He would be surprised at his unwitting allies.

[AgingAmerican]

21. Third war are not Democrats

They are a third party that has wrested large amounts of control over the Democratic apparatus.

Your love for them is puzzling.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. I love anybody with a (D) after his name

as long as he or she isn't sexist, homophobic, bigoted, reactionary, anti-semitic, xenophobic et cetera.

If someone is of good will and wants to join my party I welcome him or her.

[AgingAmerican]

24. The third way aren't Democrats

They are center right corporate hacks

[LondonReign2]

45. I'll assume you forgotting to mention conservatives and corporatists was an oversight

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. If that's synonymous with racist, homophobic, xenophobic, anti-semitic I don't like em either./NT

[treestar]

79. So these people are not Democrats

James Clyburn
John Dingell
Allyson Schwartz
Jared Pollis

Do they know? How will we get them to leave the Democratic Party?

[AgingAmerican]

102. The third way is a separate party

They are not Democrats. They are Republicans.

[smokey nj]

38. NO, he said he wanted to make GOVERNMENT so small you could drown it in a bathtub.

It's the Third Way, DLC types who want smaller government. I guess that makes YOU his "unwitting ally."

[merrily]

55. Don't confuse us with facts!

[treestar]

81. How does Hillary want smaller government?

I presume you think she is in that category. What has she done to show she wants smaller government.

Right wingers would laugh their asses off if you said that in their hearing.

[smokey nj]

88. You mentioned Hillary, I didn't.

But, here you go:

http://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/lanny-davis/324541-lessons-from-clintons-third-way-

About two weeks later, in his 1996 State of the Union speech, Clinton reiterated the New Democrat message and cemented his political victory over the defeated House Republicans, when he famously announced to the nation:

“The era of big government is over.”

I know it was Bill Clinton who said it, but as far as I know, Hillary hasn't publicly disagreed.

[treestar]

89. Is there a context for that?

I used Hillary as an example. That's what the OP tried to do, pin it down.

[smokey nj]

95. It's from his 1996 State of the Union address.

The article I excerpted was written by Clinton associate, Lanny Davis. It's funny that you're fact-checking me, but leave the OP's bullshit paraphrase of Grover Norquist unquestioned.

[treestar]

99. I don't see Bill Clinton as someone who wanted to

drown government in the bathtub. How he ended up saying that is probably explainable.

[AgingAmerican]

59. He said no such thing

He said he wanted to make the GOVERNMENT so small it could be drowned in a bathtub.

Having corporate shills in the Democratic party works toward Norquists goal, not against it.

[AgingAmerican]

19. Kathleen Sebelius

Ken Salazar...

Cut out the cancer and radiate it out of existence...

[wyldwolf]

20. James Clyburn is 'thirdway?' Is that term becoming a generic one for people you don't like?

[AgingAmerican]

22. James Clyburn

...honorary Third Way co-chair? That James Clyburn?

[wyldwolf]

25. ah, sorry. Confused him with someone else. Carry on.

[Rex]

26. It's actually funny, the people that spend all day carrying water for the Third Way

a) at first pretended it didn't exist b) now seem to have no idea who is in the group.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. You could put a gun to my head and I couldn't tell you who any of these folks are:

Maybe because I don't have a landline and they can't reach me.

[Rex]

28. So you don't know how to use google?

So in conclusion you will defend a group that was once part of the republican party, but not know anything about it?

Erky, well I guess that says it all right there.

Here I will help you out, read this article it might help some but I doubt it.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/177437/gop-donors-and-k-street-fuel-third-ways-advice-democratic-party#

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. I'm not defending or offending anybody I hope

I just want to see who needs to be purged.


I fear we will end up like Michael Corleone in Godfather ll, all alone because we purged all our opponents.

[Rex]

32. You've been doing it all day now.

Seriously? You didn't think anyone has noticed? I love how a few of you use the dog whistle 'purge', when we are talking about one group with ties to the GOP.

Oh well, if you don't care I surely can't make you care.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

33. I don't want anyone with ties to the GOP to represent the Democratic party.

I don't think anybody with ties to the GOP would want to be in the Democratic party.

I saw Bill Clinton on the purge list. Does he have ties to the GOP? They loved him so much they impeached him.

[Rex]

34. "I saw Bill Clinton on the purge list"

I cannot be responsible for others personal choice of who is or is not on that list. All I can tell you is do your own research.

[treestar]

90. We did research and think they are referring to Bill and Hillary

Some did have the guts to say who they thought it applied to, as above. It's pretty snotty to tell someone to research something at the same time you admit it is unique to each person's opinion.

[Rex]

108. As usual you totally miss my point, you seem to only be able to do that. Whatever.

Nowhere have I mentioned any politicans active or inactive. I am talking about an organization full of libertarians wanting to practice unregulated capitalism - but you knew that already.

[AgingAmerican]

35. How convenient

nt

[Rex]

36. I guess it is time to start being an advocate for something I know nothing about.

Seems to be the trend here with about 5 or 6 people.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

37. I'm not wealthy enough to travel in those circles.

I did see Thurgood Marshall Jr. on that list. I believe I am aware of his late dad.

[LondonReign2]

46. Do you agree with the policies espoused by the Third Way?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

64. If they join my party they're agreeing with me. I'm not agreeing with them./NT

[Mnpaul]

68. No they aren't

they are just telling you that. Their actions tell a different story.

[LondonReign2]

70. Um, no. Not even remotely true.

If they (The Third Way) join your party, which they have, they are not agreeing with traditional Democratic policies and principles. Quite the opposite. They promote tax cuts for corporations, cuts to the social safety net, and horrible trade agreements. Do those things sound like they are agreeing with you?

So again, do you support the policies espoused by The Third Way?

[treestar]

92. What are those, by the way?

[treestar]

82. LOL

Are those real Third Wayers?

[merrily]

29. It's a trick question. It's yet another shit stirring thread, another attempt to show up

traditional Democrats and liberals.

Brentspeak had a point. http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025767160

So did Harry Truman.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. I refrained from attacking Mr. Brentspeak or his allies personally.

I regret his allies can't show those who disagree with them the same courtesy.

[merrily]

39. You're the only one getting personal.

Last edited Fri Nov 7, 2014, 06:25 PM - Edit history (1)

I made no personal attack on you, called you no name. I characterized the thread and I stand by the characterization. You want to disagree with my characterization, be my guest and refute it, but don't claim a personal attack. That's untrue.

FYI: I can't recall ever even posting a reply to Brentspeak, except the one I just posted on his thread, which was a speech by Truman. I hardly think that qualifies me as his ally.

You're being dramatic.

[treestar]

76. How do you get them kicked out of the party?

If there a committee that can vote them out? Write them a strongly worded letter that they should quit?

[GeorgeGist]

40. Cuomo would be a good place to start.

FDR would be horrified.

[myrna minx]

41. Cuomo is horrible! I know a lot of nose holders who voted for him on Tuesday.

[hrmjustin]

42. People actually want to throe people out of the party?

Looks I detest Cuomo but I would not throw him out of the party.

[Rex]

49. The Third Way is based on neoliberalism.

Not good.

[merrily]

54. I don't even think it's possible

Wouldn't that mean revoking voter registration? I don't know if even the Governor or Secretary of State has that option. Has it ever happened to anyone?

[Enthusiast]

103. Cuomo has embraced Republican policy.

Having the D next to your name does not a Democrat make.

[hrmjustin]

104. I agree but I would not throw him out of the party.

[Enthusiast]

105. We should make him a voter not a governor.

[hrmjustin]

106. Well unfortunately that is too late.

[Agony]

112. Cuomo is not interested in the party as evidenced by his behavior in the primary

he is only interested in one thing, himself. Why should he be allowed to be in a party when he refused to participate in the party process and engage his primary opponent in debating important FRACKING issues! He refused to even acknowledge his fellow Democrat who was running against him. Why not throw him out of the party?

not that that will ever happen but this is extremely germane as to why the party is all fucked up.

[hrmjustin]

113. How do you throw a sitting governor out of the party?

Who makes that choice?

[Agony]

114. I was just answering your question as to why he SHOULD be thrown out of the party

like I said, it will never happen and that is why the Democratic party is fucked up…

can always talk and dream about it tho. that's all I got these days, dreams of better days…

never give up

[hrmjustin]

115. Point taken.

[Erose999]

43. I was gonna suggest John Barrow and Kay Hagen, but, you know...

[Bluenorthwest]

48. Some of them lost their elections this week, Hagen is a co-chair of Third Way as is Mark Udall

both failed to defend their seats and weakened the Democratic presence in the Senate. Their sort of politics naturally leads to short careers in public office. So they are self purging.

[merrily]

51. His question was which officeholders should be "purged from the party," not

which should lose elections, "purged" being a loaded word at DU these days and "from the party" being over the top and not ever going to happen anyway. (Has it ever happened? Has anyone ever suggested it should happen? Revocation of voter registration?)

I called it a shit stirring thread, but, apparently, that is a personal attack according to the OP and makes me an ally of brentspeak.

[Bluenorthwest]

97. Well of course, but there is no such thing as throwing people out of a Party, membership is self

declared. Since the OP is making a stupid, flame seeking construct out of fantasy, I offered the very real reasons why Third Way is currently unpopular. They lose too often.

[merrily]

118. Ah, you opted out. Props.

I took the flame baiting at its word.

[ChiciB1]

109. Joe Manchin Is Someone Who Bother Me A Lot... PLUS Cuomo

who I have no respect for. Don't understand how anyone can call him a Democrat. I live in FL and one of my first thoughts when "Bridgegate" was getting so much attention, was how is Cuomo connected to this?

This apple fell very, very far from the tree. Cory Booker is another "smooth talked" I don't trust! Love the glory, and seems to love visiting Joe Scarface! Well, I have to amend the last statement, can't remember when I last watched Scarface. There's also a journalist who wrote for the Boston Globe, Mike Barnacle who ticks me off. THEN what about Ed Rendell?

Too many people we thought are or where real Democrats have strayed off the farm!

Many here at DU attack so many of us who knew a different party are called out on a regular basis, but I guess we just knew many who stood "with us" and we knew would fight for us. Bernie Sanders (YES, I KNOW, not a Democrat) but much more so than many. Elizabeth Warren is at the top, but probably can't be elected as POTUS!

Carl Levin, Feinstein... the list gets very long of Democrats who seem to have become so "wishy-washy" who I once thought would fight for us, not so anymore. I haven't even started with any southern Democrats, if many are left.

OH, and s huge one for me because he's my Senator BILL NELSON!

And, yes... I worry about Hillary too!

[JI7]

57. what's funny is many complaining about Third Way are calling for Third Wayer Howard Dean to be DNC

Chair .

and Considering Dean is supporting fellow Third Wayer Hillary Clinton for PResident would that be fair for other candidates who might want to get into the primary ?

[markpkessinger]

65. I'm less interested in "purging" Third Way officeholders from the party . . .

. . . than I am in in purging Third Way ideas from the party's electoral and governing strategies.

[baldguy]

66. Once the phoney "left" is done purging the party of liberals who are insufficiently liberal

On one particular issue or another - there will be nobody remaining.

Exactly what the GOP wants.

[Mnpaul]

69. Purity Test!!!

same old, same old

Like we never heard that one before

Just look at all the voters we had the other night.

[LondonReign2]

71. You think The Third Way are liberals?

[baldguy]

72. The people being accused of being "3rd way" for the most part aren't. And they never have been.

And just because they realize that Democrats have to win elections before we can do anything doesn't make them so.

Funny that the most authoritarian people here seem to be the ones screaming at the highest volume for a purge of "3rd way", "blue dogs", & "moderate Dems".

[LondonReign2]

75. Yet you didn't manage to answer

Do you think The Third Way are liberals?

Better yet, do you support their policies?

[baldguy]

91. You know who for sure aren't actual liberals? The people complaining about them.

Are you one of the authoritarians who's advocating for a purge?

[treestar]

84. They seem to miss that the very idea is authoritarian

To throw them out of the party for not being pure enough rather than working with them or trying to persuade them. Get rid of them! As if they would then stay home even if that were possible.

Let's throw Hillary out of the party because she's not liberal. Even if that could be done, she would not go home and cry about it.

[baldguy]

94. And they also miss that one of the first to go would be their heroine, Elizabeth Warren.

Being that she's one of Hillary's biggest supporters.

[brooklynite]

74. I think Third Way are Democrats

They're more liberal than Republicans, just not as liberal as you.

But let's add some reality to this witch burning exercise. Jeanne Shaheen is a Third Way Democrat. Nam a vote she's taken that invalidates her Democratic status.

[LondonReign2]

80. Do you agree with their policies?

Do you support the TPP? Do you support lower taxes on corporations? Do support permanent tax cuts for wealthy individuals? Do you support the NSA spying on Americans? Do you support Keystone and fracking?

"More liberal than Republicans". Well, that's fantastic. And as the Republicans continue to move right, so does our party with the help of The Third Way advocates. The DLC, the precursor to The Third Way, was funded by the Koch brothers. Awesome.

Anyone can call themselves Democrats, and I can call myself the Queen of England, but that doesn't make it true.

I can't believe there are people on this site actually advocating for Koch brother supported positions.

[treestar]

85. There's a big difference between a political party in a free country

and an inherited throne. Analogy fail big time.

The Democratic party is known to be a big tent and a herd of cats. That's the way it is.

[Bluenorthwest]

100. When she was governor she opposed marriage equality. That sort of thing makes a lasting impression.

Yeah, it's good she stopped being a bigot. But she used to be a bigot, other people were not.
It does not invalidate her 'Democratic status' but it makes her unacceptable to me as any sort of voice of leadership.
I have no need to ever vote again for a 'reformed' homophobe slightly to the left of the GOP.

[brooklynite]

111. So did President Obama.....time to dump him?

[LondonReign2]

120. Third Wayers are Democrats?

They are Democrats that promote dismantling of the social safety net, tax cuts for corporations, Keystone, and tax cuts for the wealthy. You know what people who support those positions are called? Republicans.

[brooklynite]

122. Thanks for proving my point...

You didn't point to anything that Third-Way advocates actually voted for, and you didn't point to an actual Third-Way stated policy. All you did was throw out some platitudes that someone else wrote in a blog post.

[treestar]

83. would you seriously go into a room that includes

people from all political viewpoints and announce that the Clintons are not liberal?

And expect people to agree with that and act shocked when they laugh their asses off at you? The right wingers would roll on the floor laughing at the idea that Hillary or Bill are not liberals. The center would too. Most of DU would too. It is crazy to say they aren't liberals to most people. It's weird you expect agreement on this.

[BootinUp]

67. Office holders? I want to lose not win! All of them! nt

[brooklynite]

73. How nice that someone gets to decide who can be a Democrat

I hope they only use that power for good.....

[Todays_Illusion]

78. Why not call them what they are libertarians ?

Here is one, Wyden, I also think Liz Warren, Kristen Gillibrand, and Al Franken.


But then I still hold the older set of liberal ideas, I don't think many calling themselves Democratic know what they are, Bernie Sanders the only elected who consistently voices them.

[Rex]

87. Evidently some here will defend a certain group of libertarians

while in the next breath condemning a different group of libertarians - this is why I cannot take any of them seriously. They seem to have shifting values.

[Todays_Illusion]

116. I am beginning to believe about sixty percent of DU is libertarian of one stripe or another.

Only based on comments I read and I only read political stuff.

[oldandhappy]

86. What is this third way business??

Sorry, I missed this. I do not know what the Third Way means.

[think]

96. It is a corporate element within the Democratic Party. Their website is ThirdWay.org

They are Wallstreet investment bankers pushing a corporate agenda within the Democratic Party




Here is a great editorial on them which includes the names of the former Wallstreet firms that many of the board members came from (You will need to click the link to the full article find them):

Wall Street Uses Third Way to Lead Its Assault on Social Security

William K. Black Assoc. Professor, Univ. of Missouri, Kansas City; Sr. regulator / Posted: 11/13/2012 9:01 am EST Updated: 01/13/2013 5:12 am EST


Third Way, lobbyists for and from Wall Street who are leading the effort to enrich Wall Street by privatizing Social Security, was created by Wall Street to fool some of the people all of the time. I have written previously to expose their fictional claims to be a moderate or liberal Democratic group....

~Snip~

Third Way is the Wall Street wing of the Democratic Party, which seeks to defeat Democratic candidates like Elizabeth Warren running against Wall Street sycophants like Senator Scott Brown and seeks to unravel the safety net programs that are the crown jewels of the Democratic Party. Wall Street's "natural" party is certainly the Republican Party, but Wall Street has no permanent party or ideology, only permanent interests. Third Way serves its financial interests and the personal interests of its senior executives. Wall Street has always been the enemy of Social Security and its greatest dream is to privatize Social Security. Wall Street's senior executives live in terror of being held accountable under the criminal laws for their crimes. They became wealthy by leading the "control frauds" that drove the financial crisis and the Great Recession. This is why Wall Street made defeating Warren a top priority.

Third Way is run by a man who Lautner terms an "acolyte" of Pete Peterson. Peterson is a Republican, Wall Street billionaire who has two priorities -- imposing austerity on America and privatizing Social Security. Privatizing Social Security is Wall Street's unholy grail. They would receive hundreds of billions of dollars in fees and ensure that their firms were not only "too big to fail," but "too big to criticize" if they could profit from a privatized retirement system. (We do not know who funds Third Way because it refuses to make its donors public. Given who dominates its Board of Trustees, however, the donors must be overwhelmingly from Wall Street.)

Third Way's self-description has some elements of honesty, admitting that it is "led by a prominent private sector Board of Trustees, drawn from finance, industry, academia, the non-profit sector and government." The order is revealing -- the board is dominated by finance, with a thin veneer provided by industry, and with the barest patina of "academics" and "government."

~Snip~

Read more:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/william-k-black/third-way-wall-street_b_2121372.html

[ChiciB1]

110. Yes, Some Of Us Are Adding Names Because

of how they seem to have leaned far to the right... maybe aren't on list, but who knows? Names could be hidden.

[oldandhappy]

119. Thank you, I guess, zowie.

Did not know.

[YoungDemCA]

93. Those calling for a "purge" are obvious trolls

Ignore them.

[RiverLover]

98. Gov Fracking Hickenlooper in Colorado

http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_26272493/hickenlooper-tries-broker-last-minute-deal-oil-gas-colorado

[pa28]

101. You can't "purge" people from the party.

You can change conventional wisdom and reject failed ideas.

[Zorra]

121. They're clearly purgiing themselves. nt