OK. I am calling BS and sending out a warning but I wish I could somehow do more.

[tk2kewl]

Last edited Wed Apr 18, 2012, 02:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Now we have a CBS poll saying Romney is neck and neck with Obama.

Last week we had another poll (Gallup?) with Romney up by 2%.

But women are polling with numbers like 20% more for Obama than the American Parasite.

Ladies and gentleman the breadcrumbs are being laid down right now. The M$M will start pushing a meme similar to the one we heard over and over again in '04 when Bush out paced exit polls by statistically unrealistic numbers.

We have voter suppression laws in place or being considered in many swing states. The foundation for election theft is being laid and the M$M is going to start telling us the polls are unreliable. They wont bother trying to go into the methodologies used or analysis of why one poll is more scientifically sound than another. It will work to confuse.

I guess the only thing I can do to help is become a democratic poll monitor for this November, but unlike the last time I participated in this activity we no longer have mechanical lever machines -- we switched over to optical scanners last year.

Friends, we are going to need to bring out the democratic vote like we haven't done in a long time. We are going to need to work harder than we did 4 years ago to beat back this lying sack of shit parasite and those that aid and abet him and his ilk that would like nothing more than take whatever you and I have left.

[cindyperry2010]

1. realclearpolitics

has completely different numbers and it is the delegate math that counts

[Skidmore]

2. Yeah, it smells to high heaven.

Wonder who they polled.

[freshwest]

3. I agree.

[CrispyQ]

4. Why have the dems been silent on state laws that make it difficult to vote?

Why do we never hear them speak out against electronic voting machines without a paper trail? But come election time, I'm told that I have to GOTV so we can beat the fucking repubs. When are the dems in office going to do something? They don't make a squeak about these issues.

[tk2kewl]

7. it scares the ever living shit out of me

i want Obama to win big and i want lots of coattails but we already know that GOP has strategies and operatives that can turn things if it's close.

[randome]

34. But it should never be close.

All the Republicans can do is fudge the numbers at the edges. It's wrong, it's cheating, it's whatever else you want to call it, but the Democrats should be making sure that it never becomes an issue and yet somehow they don't.

[ThomThom]

49. and the media wants a horse race

more ads and viewers
make it appear close so it can be stolen
as if the ad money isn't going to be enough with all the new pack money blanketing the markets with lies

[xtraxritical]

61. You're too right.

Also media is owned some of the largest right wingers in the world. A horse race is their mantra, even the lib tv shows air too much coverage of the republiCON candidates. Why legitimize them? The horse race. VOTE A STRAIGHT DEMOCRATIC BALLOT!

[marshall gaines]

24. exactly

we need someone in office who has courage. I figure dem senators and representatives are no different than anyone else in that pack of thieves and snakes in Washington D.C. They are only concerned with holding on to power no matter who back home gets screwed.

[xtraxritical]

62. VOTE A STRAIGHT DEMOCRATIC BALLOT be happy and sane again!

troll.

[sendero]

65. We did that in 2008..

.... look what it got us!

[RebelOne]

71. I always do vote straight Democratic.

But I live in a red Republican county in Georgia where there are few Democrats on the ballots, but I vote for the few that are running.

[freshwest]

37. Some blue states have done something about it. CA and WA.

WA also has a lot of rules about campaigning and transparency that other states don't. All done by Dems. So not all of them fit the model you're talking about.

Many states are GOP owned, lock, stock and barrel and none of them are going to give up Diebold.

[sybylla]

43. Don't know what your talking about. My Dems haven't been silent.

In WI, every Dem I know has made public statements on the crappy voting laws passed here.

I see Dems on MSNBC talking about this all the time on a national and state basis.

I understand your frustration that so many of them aren't in a position (lacking majorities or legal authority) to do anything about it, but a broad brush treatment is in this case unhelpful.

The only people who are likely to do anything about it are Democrats. Bashing them all indiscriminately over the issue only hurts the cause.

[madokie]

46. I suspect that a lot of that reason is that the M$M doesn't report on it when they do

Our m$m is in the pockets of the gop, hell most of the m$m is owned by pukes

[juajen]

58. Because, they too, are culpable. Enough said?

It is beyond frustrating. We watched Gore being gored; we saw Ohio stolen. We know, but we do nothing. Because we have no power. We cannot act alone. Our elected officials are colored by their inactivity on these issues, and we are stymied by their refusal to do anything. Obviously, some people are being paid off. A pox on both their houses! As we watch this country go down, are there any suggestions as to how we can change it? Peacefully, I mean.

No. 1: Get rid of all lobbyists.

No. 2: Jail corrupt politicians.

Ok, I gave you two. I'll let someone else continue the numbers, and perhaps give suggestions as to how we can effect change without violence. I believe OWS has been successful to a point. Do we need to camp out on the National Mall?

[CrispyQ]

68. The problem is, the ones who can change bad laws & policy,

are the ones who benefit from bad laws & policy.

To add to your list:

1. Publicly funded campaigns only.
2. Break up Big Media.
3. Get rid of paperless electronic voting machines.
4. Make election day a national holiday or extend voting times.
5. Put restrictions on campaign lengths - 6 weeks out only. I'll bet most of America would go for that! We're in a constant campaign cycle these days. All our Representatives do is campaign. Our Senators have a little more breathing space.

The whole system is corrupt & compromised to the core. Everyday is a new episode of The Twilight Zone.

[felix_numinous]

5. Agreed!

The only way the GOP can win this election is to play down and dirty--and they will steal this election to win.

We have to make a PACT to never allow this to happen in this country again--come election time we UNITE nomatter what and win in November, and then it's back to our regularly scheduled bickering.

[MineralMan]

6. You're right. GOTV is going to be very important this year.

Let's give them a vote that shakes their world a bit. Every Democrat needs to go to the polls in November, and take every friend they have with them. If we do that, we'll send an unmistakable message.

[obxhead]

8. poll numbers are manufactured

for the purpose of generating "news."

Expect them to be "neck and neck" until election day. Otherwise the M$M might have to report on some actual news and TPTB can not allow that to happen.

[tk2kewl]

9. the fourth estate, what a sorry state

[bvar22]

26. The Media, and BOTH Political Parties NEED for it to appear to be a "Horse Race".

Elections are Big Business worth BILLIONS to the Parties and the Media.
If it is NOT a Dramatic HORSE RACE,
donations to BOTH Parties dry up,
and The Media can't Cash In either.

What we are watching now is not so much an election,
but something called "Milking the Rubes".

TPTB are well pleased with the Obama Administration.
As per the Power Sharing Agreement,
the Republicans are not scheduled to re-take the White House (in another "Horse Race&quot until 2016.

Did you know that our elections in the USA are LESS transparent & verifiable than elections in most 3rd World Countries?

Did you know that there are MORE opaque, privately owned (proprietary software), easily hackable, Black Box Voting Machines
in operation NOW than there were in 2006?
...and neither Party is interested in changing the system to make our votes more secure?

Do you know that Voting by Mail is the LEAST secure way to cast your vote?

Aside from all that, are you enjoying the carnival?
Do you know that most of the games on the Midway are rigged?



You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[leftyohiolib]

10. this is so when they steal the election they can say look the polls said they were even

so you just have sour grapes that's all. they know the some scotus seats will be vacated this next term so they'll steal it.

[tk2kewl]

11. yep

that's why i called it breadcrumbs

they will trace right back to all of this lying crap

[leftyohiolib]

13. man i so hate this fighting with people who should know better

the people in the 99% who back their republikkkan oppressors all the while saying to them "well i shot myself in the left foot should i shoot myself in the right foot now too"

[annabanana]

25. That's why the margin HAS to be * * TOO BIG TO STEAL * *

If it even looks remotely possible for last minute republican rabbits to be pulled out of vapor-vote hats. .they will steal it.

[CanOfWhoopAss]

12. I smell smoke too. n/t

[Phlem]

14. Well you can't steal elections

unless they're close. So they're saying it's close, which is total bullshit.

-p

[The Vrude]

15. Why

do we get so up in arms over this? Do we see an extreme difference between Bush the warmonger and his Patriot Act and Directive 51...versus Obama and his perpetuation of wars and new wars in Libya, etc., pushing for war with Iran, and Obama's NDAA and all the groping at airports, etc...

if Romney gets in, he'll just keep on doing all the same stuff the banks have required of Obama and Bush. Elections are illusions. The Wizard is still behind the curtain. Occupy needs to keep ramming that home.

[tk2kewl]

17. no doubt in my mind that obama needs to do a 180 on many issues

this crap about two sides of the same coin is exactly that.

[The Vrude]

27. It's not crap ("exactly that")

If in fact you are also willing to concede Obama needs to do a 180 on many issues.

[SammyWinstonJack]

29. A 360.

[tk2kewl]

53. conceding that i disagree with obama on a lot of things in no way equates obama to rmoney

you are full of it

[stevenleser]

54. MIRT - Cleanup on Aisle 5. nt

[emulatorloo]

59. Yeah, Dems and Republicans are the same. Tell that to folks in Wisconsin, Michigan, etc

and see how they respond.

[stevenleser]

64. Rude Vrude has been served with a large pepperoni with extra cheese. Thanks MIRT Team!

[siligut]

67. You don't see the insidious changes

It is slow and step by step. It does make a difference.

[Odin2005]

16. There are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

[a2liberal]

18. K&R (n/t)

[CoffeeCat]

19. Gallup is a LIE-BASED TOOL...

...used by BOTH parties to warp reality.

We watched this repeatedly with Bush and now with Romney. Gallup has also been
used to paint a rosier picture of consumer confidence, "Oh look--78 percent of the
American public think the economy is getting better! Are you down about the economy?
Well, most of America isn't. What in the hell is wrong with YOU, loser!?" See how that
works.

They use polls to distort reality for their own gain. We all know these neocon, corporatist
pigs chose profit over our health, safety and welfare. They're destroying the economy and
they orchestrated the housing implosion. Are we actually going to suggest that they couldn't
*possibly* gain control over a polling firm and use fake polls to disseminate bunk statistics?
Oh please.

Both Dems and Republicans use Gallup. It's their little playground of distortion. One more
tool in their corrupt toolbox.

And I would agree--if Gallup is up to these tricks again--it's a sign that they're marketing us
specific messages that are all part of their corrupt plan. I'm sure stealing this election is
part of it.

Another thing--in the recent movie "Going Rogue" about the McCain/Palin campaign--there was
a scene where political operatives discussed how McCain was trailing 10 points with women. All
of the politicos at the table agreed that no way in hell was McCain winning this election trailing
10 points with women. It would be statistically impossible. That's one of the central reasons that
the McCain camp selected a woman as a running mate.

In effect, Romneny--at this point--can't win if he's trailing 10 or more with women.

These thugs can spin it all they like. Their lies are getting more outrageous and their spin is
ridiculous. I wish I couldn't see it. I wish I was just in denial and watching Idol and Glee like
the rest of the lemmings. It's frustrating.

[tk2kewl]

20. thanks for your insight

we really need to reinstate the fairness doctrine

the strangle hold money has over the message has been getting tighter and tighter for some time and it seems that now there is very little that people can take on face value. i know so many right leaning folks who don't trust science but they can't see that it has been the economic policies to which they subscribe that have so poisoned the well and have done so intentionally

[SammyWinstonJack]

31. What I don't get is, how many people fall for this...time after time.

It can't be that easy to fall for all the spin, distortion, propaganda and outright lies.

[HangOnKids]

60. Most People Just Don't Pay Attention To Politics

They respond to the sound bytes right before the election, that is about it. It is fucking insane because they have NO IDEA how important this is. Another great trick by the media to keep the masses passive and ignorant. Crap TV has mesmerized and stupefied the American populace, and people don't talk about politics because it is somehow "dirty" and shouldn't be discussed. I too find it surreal, but I understand why people "fall" for it. Very sad.

[Gman]

21. Good thinking

We'll have a better idea in the next week or so if other polls mirror these results.

That's what I'm waiting for.

[fascisthunter]

22. Corporate Media Propaganda

this is why I despise corporate interests in total control of what we hear and see without much oversight. THIS shit happens... boy did they help in the coup when Bush ran against Al Gore. I will NEVER forget their role!

[Politicalboi]

23. Rmoney still NOT the

Nominee. ANYTHING can happen. And don't forget Sarah is just waiting. Just hoping voter fraud for Rmoney sticks, and she's in.

[Ford_Prefect]

28. At This point the real goal may not the White House but the Senate and House.

I suspect the hype is more about getting cover for the rip-off of the Senate and House elections. As others have noted elsewhere there are a number of states where redistricting by the Rethugs has created the chance to dominate both houses of Congress. The point about Romney running is to give enough cover to the money that will finance it all. Winning the Congress will give the Money and the Ideologues the ability to impeach as well as rewrite law and process. I fully expect that this will be the ugliest of campaigns. The rhetoric we have heard this year alone suggests that.

I agree on the point that anything which looks less than a horse race is bad for TV. I expect all sorts of false equivalence from MSM presenting the "issues" in order to help generate that impression.

[12AngryBorneoWildmen]

55. The Big RW Pacs are shifting focus to the state level as we speak. nt

[Lost-in-FL]

57. Yesss! I think this will be a repeat of Bush/Gore...

but that is just my unprofessional opinion. The GOP is once again manipulating the electoral college figures to their advantage.

[chknltl]

30. This is good! (??)

Complacency can also cost President Obama this election. I prefer seeing the level of concern expressed here as opposed to the level of concern that comes with any notions of an easy win or worse the dreaded 'landslide' that some predict.

In order to keep Democrats in their positions it will take an 'All Hands On Deck' approach by supporters. If by some miracle we gain seats in Congress let that be the viewed as an unexpected windfall.

So to my thinking, it is a good thing that this thread contains little complacency and a lot of alarm. I say: SPREAD THE ALARM!

[Taverner]

32. Find the source

Qui bono?

[eomer]

47. Did Che recite those words each time he executed someone?

For example, when he executed the grandfather of a girl my kids grew up with? (They're now all young adults.)

[Taverner]

63. I agree with the statement, even if Che didn't always live by it

As per Cuba, they are a lot better off now than they were under Batista

[eomer]

66. Didn't always live up to it?

He murdered a significant number of people. For me that disqualifies him as a person to cite, since there are plenty of other people who can be quoted and who never did, never would have, murdered anyone, like Ghandi or MLK, Jr.

[Taverner]

69. And Batista didn't murder? And the CIA doesn't murder?

[eomer]

70. Yes, absolutely, so I won't promote them in my sig line or anywhere else.

There are many other people and organizations who murder; I oppose and condemn them all.

[Taverner]

73. Despite what you may think, Che Guevara did a number of great things...

...for the masses of Latin America

Batista did not

[Taverner]

75. In the end, the Cuban Revolution made up for any damages in terms of people helped

I know you can fixate on a single incident, but in terms of who has been helped since the mid-sixties in Cuba...


The records speak for themselves.

[eomer]

76. I know many Cubans who've escaped in recent years, so I know that the fruits of Castro and Che...

are misery and abuse, not glorious success.

Why don't you look to a real success story, like one of the democracies in Scandinavia? Life in Castro's Cuba is not something I would wish on anyone, except maybe those who hold it up as being glorious when it's everything but.

The record does speak for itself, but you have to have the actual facts to know what it's saying. One Cuban I know very well told me the story of when they managed to catch a chicken. By the time they had enlisted enough people to get the things they needed to cook it, each person got a small taste.

Other Cubans I know have been in a Cuban hospital and told me how you have to bring your own clean sheets and, if you can find some, your own hypodermic needles if you don't want to be injected with reused ones. And how you have to get your medicines from relatives in the U.S., if you can convince them to fund it and send it to you.

And I do know about Castro making sure that everyone would go to school, but to learn what? Cuban schools are more like propaganda factories.

I also know people (or knew some who are now deceased) who spent decades in a Cuban prison for political views. And others who would have if they had not fled.

I don't accept the premise that we have to choose between the various horrors, that we have to choose either Castro/Che or the CIA. We can and must reject all horrible regimes and work toward true democracy and toward a society and a government that is truly for the people, not one that poses as those things as a cover story in order to hold power as an abusive and murdering dictator for fifty years.

[Taverner]

77. OUR sanctions are killing Cuba

I've actually been to Cuba, and know a great deal of Cubans who left as well.

Don't believe the CANF hype - the rich Cubans want their slaves back, and they will use anyone and anything as their pawn. Remember Elian Gonzales? They tried to make him their poster boy, making up all kinds of stupid bullshit to support their case (an angel with dolphins was carrying Elian, the thugs who found him said.)

The average Cuban is much healthier, happier and has a longer life expectancy than the average American. And this is even when we don't care to count the homeless.

I will not buy your red scare tactics.

[eomer]

78. No doubt there are Cuban rightwingers who want horrible things.

But we don't have to choose either the horrors that Cuban rightwingers would have for us or the horrors that the Castros would have - we can propose and work toward something better than either.

Sorry, but the claim that things are great in Cuba is ridiculous.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

33. Why are you surprised at how many stupid people there are?

It's not about rigging polls. The media does it's job by showing nutty fringe groups like the Tea Party who scream Obama is bad. That convinces a bunch of idiots that he is bad, and they are basically on the fence about him.

It doesn't really matter......Obama will win again, but it will be closer. He won't have the mandate he FUCKING WASTED in '08. We won't have the Senate or the House. The SCOTUS is firmly in the back pocket of big business and money interests. The guys pulling the strings don't need a lightweight like Romney in office......they will steal the election in '16 when another member of the repulsive Bush crime family is foisted upon us, likely beating a strong candidate in someone like Mark Warner or Andrew Cuomo.

[northoftheborder]

35. Polling

I've had more polling calls than usual, and it is obvious they are polling for the Republican primary here in Texas. Several Repub. offices have contested races; can't think the R's are especially worried about the general election, if so, something is going on I'm unaware of.

[brush]

36. Romney necnk and neck and ahead of O in some polls

You are so on the money. I notice the same thing. How can Romney be ahead or neck and neck when we all know that he is way behind in the women vote, the black vote, the progressive white vote and the latino vote. They've started their BS and dirty tricks for the November election already. I'm registering voters every Friday and I hope everyone that can will help in some way.

[SunSeeker]

38. I agree. These polls scare the crap out of me.

[RZM]

39. Put all the polls together and it looks kind of close

I suspect it's actually going to be a repeat of 2004, with the incumbent winning by a similar margin. The Mittster just doesn't have what it takes to get over the top. But he's going to give Obama a veritable run for his money. He'll still come up short though.

[DaDeacon]

40. Check out the over all tracking on RCP...

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/president/us/general_election_romney_vs_obama-1171.html

-= STILL WINNING!!!

[Recursion]

41. The country is roughly evenly divided

Part of the reason activists (liberal and conservative) are so sincerely convinced of voter fraud every time they lose is that they cannot accept the idea that great swathes of people in the country actually disagree with them. Yes, RCP is a GOP-leaning outlier among polls (it always it). But you're fooling yourself if you think this election will be anything but close.

[schlagehundenancee]

42. BDS is high

and is openly being fueled by the Reich Wingers and their allies, add to that the number of people who no longer vote and Mr Majic Undies is kicking President Obama out.
This is going to be a very ugly and violent election, people need to wrap their heads round this too.

[MadHound]

44. Why do you find these polls so hard to believe?

The fact of the matter is that no president since FDR has been reelected with these kind of economic numbers hanging around his neck. Claiming that this is some sort of mass media conspiracy is, well, woo. Not to mention the fact that Obama's actions have effectively dampened the left's enthusiasm. Sure, they'll probably still vote for him, but they're not going to get out and work for him, or donate to his reelection fund.

Besides, this is early in the election, and Obama has time to turn these numbers around. If he can get unemployment down a percentage point or so, that would really boost his numbers. Also, if he threw the left some serious red meat, he can get them back on board as well.

What he can't do is swing to the right, chasing moderate conservatives. If he does that, he will truly and permanently turn off a lot of people who formerly supported him, and thus lose the election.

[Ganja Ninja]

45. Yeah you add up the demographics of women and latinos and ...

the media's polls look pretty suspect for sure.

[lunatica]

48. Why would anyone in their right mind think they would stop stealing elections?

Not only have they continued to do everything to steal the elections, but now they've passed laws making it easier to steal them. The duh factor in this is so fucking obvious. It's a huge elephant, the very symbol of their party, sitting square in the middle of the room. Yet people still believe that Romney, who can't get the women or Latino vote to save his life is actually on an equal footing with President Obama.

Sigh...

[Javaman]

50. See it works like this...

of course it's bullshit.

the media needs the ratings. and the best way to do that is to pay off a poll here and there to make it appear close.

if it was announced today that Obama held a commanding lead and that mittens has a snowballs chance in hell of winning, no one would give a shit.

but by the media manufacturing a "race" suddenly it matters to everyone.

this same bullshit was employed during the '08 elections.

anyone paying attention knew that Obama would win. The media most of all, but they can't go out and claim that, they lose ratings.

so once again, it's the media who dictates how the mouth breathing public is to think.

never ever forget that.

[spanone]

51. the fix is in from the media

[Dustlawyer]

52. We need to count the people and take their names that were refused

The right to Vote! We need OWS to volunteer to man the polls outside to capture those turned away. Get their info to prove they were eligible to vote but for this transparent attempt to thwart Democracy!

[Jester Messiah]

56. If it's not "close" it's not exciting.

Gotta sell that ad time, don'tcha know!

[Chorophyll]

72. Yep, that's about the size of it.

Every damn time.

[ctaylors6]

74. even crazier: all the articles written about the polls nt