President Obama said that he is “in a lot of ways” less liberal than Republican President Nixon

[Douglas Carpenter]

By Andrew Rafferty, NBC News


President Barack Obama said that he is “in a lot of ways” less liberal than former Republican President Richard Nixon and said Fox News Channel's Bill O’Reilly has been “absolutely” unfair to him throughout his presidency in an interview that aired Monday night.

“In a lot of ways Richard Nixon was more liberal than I was,” Obama said. “He started the EPA, started a whole lot of the regulatory state that has helped keep our air and water clean.”

Obama's comments came in response to O'Reilly asking him if he was “the most liberal president of all time.” Obama also listed Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Lyndon Johnson as presidents who were also more liberal than him.

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2014/02/03/22560607-obama-says-fox-newss-oreilly-absolutely-unfair-in-extended-interview?lite

[Douglas Carpenter]

1. Apparently some people here on DU think our President must be lying

[m-lekktor]

9. yep I posted the video of him telling O"Reilly this in two seperate threads

yesterday and told them exactly WHERE in the video he said it so they could skip to it and folks STILL were posting threads and comments howling about how fucked up we DUers were for saying Nixon was more liberal and their beloved Obama is saying it himself on video!

[onenote]

41. apparently some people here on DU don't understand the president's game

which was to play a bit of political jujitsu with O'Reilly.

Yes, Nixon created the EPA. But how does that make him more liberal than Obama? Obama didn't try to dismantle the EPA did he? The EPA under Obama has twice as many employees as it did under Nixon.

Saying that Nixon was more liberal than Obama because he was President when a Democratic-party dominated Congress shoved a lot of regulatory advance down his throat (for example, after Congress created the EPA, Nixon tried to impound half of its funding) is like saying George W. Bush was more liberal than FDR because Bush didn't round up American citizens and put them in internment camps the way FDR had Japanese citizens rounded up. Its a total non-sequitur.

[sabrina 1]

51. Why would any Democratic Leader even bother to PLAY GAMES with that lying, tabloid, pathological

moron from Rupert Murdoch's propaganda machine whose opinion of you should be as important as a flea on a dog???

Please, stop with the excuses for this. He should WIPE THE FLOOR with these ignorant idiots, not put down Liberals along with them. There is just no excuse at all for the Dem party leadership to 'play games' with these idiots. And it's not the first time this president has made efforts to tell the Right how 'unliberal' he is, how he has 'angered my liberal base in order to support YOUR ideas'.

Frankly it makes me ill. We need fighters in this party. Fighters who will not even DEIGN to waste time on blowhard, angry right wing fools, clowns, like Faux talking head propagandists. Hell, I even know Republicans who distance themselves from those morons, ashamed to be associated with them. Why is he even TALKING to that nutcase? How about he talks to some Progressives? Waste of time, I am thoroughly amazed at this and at ANYONE trying to 'explain' it away.

[Nay]

59. Couldn't have said it better myself. He should be AT WAR with these morons,

not telling them he wants to be more like them. No wonder my blood pressure sucks these days...

[Vincardog]

91. Yes he should be unless he was speaking the3 truth and he is more conservative than Tricky Dick

How else can anyone explain his Cabinet?

[deutsey]

78. Yes. I'm tired of this rationalizing

Say what you mean, and mean what you say.

Although I can appreciate doing some rhetorical jiujitsu when necessary, I agree with you: above all, we need liberal/progressive fighters who aren't afraid spell out what we believe in and who are willing to go to the political mat to defend and advance it.

They don't have to be firebrands, either. Just stop backing away from liberalism as if it's an Ebola-saturated bed sheet.

[laundry_queen]

97. ++++ nt

[whatchamacallit]

81. Bam!

[Vattel]

89. well-said!!

[WillyT]

90. + 1,000,000,000 - What You Said !!!

[Liberal_Dog]

92. Right On!!

[LittleBlue]

107. +9999999

[Number23]

99. Well said. And that woosh you heard was your excellent and really elementary point flying over some

heads.

I mean a politician that parses words in order to make his adversary look like the idiots that they are instead of talking as though he is the room leader at a child care center discussing today's menu? The HELL you say!



apparently some people here on DU don't understand the president's game which was to play a bit of political jujitsu with O'Reilly.

What better way to stop the Fox News crew -- Ground Zero for the "OMG Obama the Socialist is going to send the UN in to your house at night to steal your guns!!1 -- in their tracks than to point out that a REPUBLICAN president implemented some more liberal policies than he did? This is really NOT hard. Not that I'm in any way surprised by the ones here that are trying ever so hard to make it so.

[area51]

2. Well,

Obama is a conservative.

[NordicLeft]

8. XL Pipeline and TPP approval dead ahead, capn'

[still_one]

13. Being less liberal is NOT conservative

[PragmaticLiberal]

29. Exactly.

I didn't take it as Obama saying he wasn't liberal per se.

I think he was trying to prove a point.

I took it as an indictment of how far right the GOP has swung.


Of course that will probably go right over the head of Fox viewers.

[still_one]

54. of course not, but this is just another opportunity to rant and rave how "bad Obama" is, ignoring

his positions on abortion, women's rights, gay rights, civil rights, the environment, a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants, SC justices, appointments, opening a dialog with Iran, and a lot of other issues.

So some here believe the President is a right winger, and the right wingers believe he is a communist, nazi, Muslim, who is not only the most liberal president ever, but a racist, according to Ben Stein.

What we have here is some people out of touch with reality.

[sabrina 1]

80. That depends on what you are 'less liberal' about. Can you give an example of what you mean by 'less

Liberal'? What Liberal Policies is it okay to be 'less Liberal' about? Social Security on the Deficit Table? That's pretty much the Conservative nirvana when it comes to Liberal policies.

Ending Glass Steagal? Seems to me that is also a Republican dream come true.

I'm of the opinion that considering the extremism of the Right MORE Liberal Leaders is what we desperately need right now.

[dreamnightwind]

21. Thanks, needs to be widely read

I hadn't seen it, and if not for DU would never have seen it, don't keep up with conservative opinion. I've only read about a third of the article and neet to stop and resume later, getting too pissed off, but not because it is full of lies, pissed off because of how true it rings. Certainly not what I thought I was voting for in 2008. HRC would be the same or worse, time for the real liberals to step up.

[City Lights]

37. Thanks for posting that. nt

[BlindTiresias]

3. Lol

Well there it is. Wrap it up, apologists.

[still_one]

55. was Medicare and the Great Society Liberal? How about the Viet Nam war?

[cali]

4. this is representative of how democrats run screaming from being labeled "liberal"

[obxhead]

6. I just think it's a moment of pure honesty.

Liberal Obama is not.

[bullwinkle428]

24. Exactly - if anyone needed further proof of how the word "liberal"

has been absolutely demonized throughout nearly the entire "media industrial complex" today, to the point where it's become a slur even at DU on occasion, this is it.

[IdiocracyTheNewNorm]

5. Well his ACTIONS sure have proven he is

[JI7]

7. it's o'reilly and Obama is a politician

This is more about the idiots who keep screaming about him being a socialist.

[Cha]

10. Exactly.. President Obama was pointing out what those Presidents achieved and ODSers weren't

raging on Nixon for being for being a "socialist111!". The President is doing his own work on the Environment without the GOPolluters. But the "everything is Obama's Fault" crowd will never acknowledge it.

But this is all the "apologists" lol and "his actions have sure proven it.." need... not really aware of what all Obama's actions have been.

[still_one]

12. The president did NOT say he was a conservative, he said in SOME WAYS he was LESS liberal, and what

meant by that was exactly what those with adequate comprehensive skills pointed out, it regards what various presidents achieved.

He was pointing out the idiocy of bill o'really.

[TheKentuckian]

14. I didn't say they were stupid, I said they were less smart than a box of rocks. Not the same at all.

[still_one]

18. Pro-Choice, Supports fair pay act, Affirmative action, etc. Supports gay rights. Strongly opposes

privatizing social security. Advocate of clean air and water, promotion of green technologies. Supports higher taxes on the wealthy. Supports pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens, Strongly favors mor enforcement of the right to vote. Believes in a dialog with Iran, and a whole host of other issues related to civil rights, healthcare, and the environment.

Obama's choice for the SC verses the republican choices should also be obvious

[BeyondGeography]

32. I know...was that so hard?

He's pointing out their insanity, and, in the process, eliciting not a little bit of the same from the hair-on-fire crowd here.

[LeftInTX]

63. Agree, it is a statement about how far right the country has moved

His target audience are Fox viewers.

Unfortunately, the Freepers and Red Staters think Nixon is a liberal.
Reagan thought Nixon was a liberal too.

[Number23]

100. This is one of those DU "battles" that is only being waged on one side

Because the other sees how utterly stupid and dishonest it is.

[still_one]

11. I have no doubt that many here will read that comment as Obama saying he is a conservative, and THAT

IS NOT WHAT HE SAID

Being less liberal is NOT being conservative

[Blanks]

15. Right. It's a statement about how far to the right the country has moved...

The country doesn't know just how many of the things Nixon did - that were liberal/progressive movements, and the republicans of that time supported it. I'm pretty sure he created OSHA in addition to the EPA.

The republicans have moved so far to the right Nixon would be a liberal by today's standards. We've been saying that a lot around here lately.

Nixon actually started implementing the EPA with an executive order (much like Obama is suggesting on immigration).

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Environmental_Protection_Agency

Perhaps that's why he brings up this comparison now.

[still_one]

19. Nixon did create OSHA and the EPA, and you are also correct the country has unfortunately been

moving to the right since then. A lot of it was due to Nixon's Southern Strategy, but the election of reagan and the bush policies sure helped it become more entrenched.

[onenote]

50. Nixon did not create OSHA, Congress did.

By enacting the Occupational Safety and Health Act in late 1970. OSHA was formed pursuant to that Act in April 1971. Nixon did issue an executive order a couple of months later directing each governmental agency to have an Occupational Safety and Health officer, but that EO didn't create OSHA, which already existed.

Nixon did "create" the EPA by issuing an executive order reorganizing various existing government offices into a single agency.

As far as being proof that Nixon was more liberal than Obama, that's nonsense. Obama has not sought to scale back these agencies -- if anything he has pushed for them to be able to do more. There can be no doubt that Nixon, who impounded a significant portion of EPA's funds and vetoed the Clean Water Act, would not have supported many of the environmental initiatives supported by the Obama administration (even if some of those initiatives do not go as far as some of us might like).

[Blanks]

84. Nixon signed the law establishing OSHA.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_Safety_and_Health_Administration

I never claimed 'proof'. The idea is that republicans are farther to the right than they were 40 years ago. It's not my goal to prove that Nixon is more liberal than Obama. I wouldn't even know how to go about that.

[onenote]

85. Unquestionably, repubs are farther to the right on most issues than 40 years ago.

I just wanted it to be clear that the creation of OSHA wasn't Nixon's work. Indeed, legislation to create such an agency was offered but not passed while LBJ was President. Nixon offered a much more watered down approach when he became President, but a pair of Democratic member of Congress (one Senator and one Representative) introduced a much tougher bill that was more along the lines of what had been proposed when LBJ was president. While the final bill represented a compromise between the two approaches, it was much stronger than what Nixon had tried to get through. And Nixon signed it because he had essentially no choice. The bill passed both the House and Senate with very large, very veto proof majorities.

[Doctor_J]

87. dems are farther right than repukes were 40 years ago

by a mile

[onenote]

94. No they're not. By a mile.

Last edited Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:54 AM - Edit history (3)

Today's Democrats support policies that the repubs of 40 years ago (and Democrats of 40 years ago) wouldn't have touched, gay rights probably foremost among them. Take a look at the repub platform from 40 years ago: its basic theme was that "All government can do is confiscate and redistribute wealth" and thus government should be made as small as possible and the role of the federal government should always be secondary to that of the states and local governments. The repub platform of 40 years ago endorsed restrictions on unions and the right to strike, it opposed federal involvement in education, supported reduction in taxes on corporations and the repeal of the estate tax, supported reigning in the EPA and OSHA (the latter of which was described essentially as a good idea gone bad), supported capital punishment, favored a constitutional amendment to allow "non-sectarian" prayer in public schools, could not bring itself to support a woman's right to choose (basically taking a pass on the issue of abortion).

Without a doubt, the repubs of 40 years were not nearly as crazy conservative as they are today. But they weren't to the left of today's Democratic party.

[GeorgeGist]

16. Turd way all the way.

[Cha]

86. No, you're wrong.. but don't let that stop you from dropping your "turd".

[Dawgs]

17. I don't need Obama to tell me he's conservative.

I've got eyes.

[cascadiance]

20. The problem is that we do see him how he is, but the right sees him how Fox says he is...

... a "socialist", so it's no wonder that he suffers in the polls and that other Third Wayers suffered the same fate.

They wind up with the right wing hating him in a partisan fashion, and us progressives not heavily supporting him when he frequently works against our interests.

At some point Dems trying to say they're "conservative" in efforts to try and overcome this situation will realize that this is what is losing the Dems power now.

Get your base to believe in you and lock down their votes and increase their turnout, and then work very hard to show why conservative agenda is failing many on the right to the point that they're voting for things like minimum wage if they actually do vote for their own interests instead of what they're being "told" to vote for by the corporate media and the Republicans. Ultimately when the country sees the value in populism again, they'll realize the corporatists in both parties have failed them.

Social issues, etc. may still divide us in some areas, but if you have politicians that work in a populist fashion, it will prevent the corporate shills from buying off both parties a lot more when that happens.

[Marr]

67. Announcing yourself as "less liberal" is stigmatizing liberal positions.

This is basically a repeat of the sentiment Bill Clinton offered back when he was running for the presidency. He proudly bragged that he was "most fiscally conservative than George Bush". He gleefully ceded the left's economic position (which I would say is the left's main reason for being).

That's what these DLC/Third Way types are all about. Conservative economic policy that isn't tied to a rigid god/guns/racists demographic.

[MannyGoldstein]

77. Less Liberal than *Nixon* isn't Conservative?

*Nixon*

Not than George McGovern.

Nixon.

[Doctor_J]

22. Such a sad spectacle. Our party's "leader" going on the enemy propaganda channel to beg

their slimiest operative not to call him a liberal. And then present evidence that he's really a Republican. What was the purpose again? Probably the president's worst moment.

[JonLP24]

25. Yep fits to what Cornel West was saying

What on earth ails the man? Why can’t he fight the Republicans? Why does he need to seek a grand bargain?

I think Obama, his modus operandi going all the way back to when he was head of the [Harvard] Law Review, first editor of the Law Review and didn’t have a piece in the Law Review. He was chosen because he always occupied the middle ground. He doesn’t realize that a great leader, a statesperson, doesn’t just occupy middle ground. They occupy higher ground or the moral ground or even sometimes the holy ground. But the middle ground is not the place to go if you’re going to show courage and vision. And I think that’s his modus operandi. He always moves to the middle ground. It turned out that historically, this was not a moment for a middle-ground politician. We needed a high-ground statesperson and it’s clear now he’s not the one.

And so what did he do? Every time you’re headed toward middle ground what do you do? You go straight to the establishment and reassure them that you’re not too radical, and try to convince them that you are very much one of them so you end up with a John Brennan, architect of torture [as CIA Director]. Torturers go free but they’re real patriots so we can let them go free. The rule of law doesn’t mean anything.

http://www.salon.com/2014/08/24/cornel_west_he_posed_as_a_progressive_and_turned_out_to_be_counterfeit_we_ended_up_with_a_wall_street_presidency_a_drone_presidency/

[Doctor_J]

36. Especially given the 2008 election

Why can’t he fight the Republicans? Why does he need to seek a grand bargain?

The repukes were less popular that herpes in 2008, and he still insisted on making friends with them. Very, very discouraging, as the elections since then verify

[BrotherIvan]

74. Nah

The torture apologia was the worst.

[F4lconF16]

83. +1

As much as his other policies will do more lasting harm to this country, that just made me sick to my stomach.

[Doctor_J]

88. Well, "sanctimonious" is not something I'm often called. Like, never, in fact

So I thought he must just be joking

[Capt. Obvious]

23. I can't believe you praised Richard Nixon

[QC]

27. That makes me very sad!

[Capt. Obvious]

35. We should start a thread about it

[QC]

39. Lots of threads. With the word fuck in them. n/t

[Doctor_J]

38. I can't either

after reading the OP three times, and those other threads, and the links within those other threads, I still don't believe Douglas praised Tricky Dick. Help me here! My vision must be failing!

[Baitball Blogger]

26. Sometimes it helps to be a student of history.

[Demit]

28. That interview was in February. I'm curious what your point is in highlighting it now.

It's not new news. Flamebait?

[Douglas Carpenter]

30. I don't see how pointing out that President Obama agrees that he is in many ways less liberal than

President Nixon could possibly be Flaimbait - since this issue has been raised here recently. Some people perhaps feel that the President was being disingenuous - I don't think so. I think he was being very candid and honest. Perhaps you disagree?If this was flaimbait - I have failed miserably - Because so far the discussion has been very civil. I don't see any flaiming on this thread at all.

[Demit]

33. I don't see any of your personal thoughts in your OP.

You're just presenting an old bit of news without making any particular argument. All that serves to do is re-ignite an ongoing war between two factions here.

[Douglas Carpenter]

34. this has been a recent discussion over the last few days - nothing has been reignited -

It's only appropriate to include the President's own perspective on this discussion that has been going on here on DU the last day or two. Why shouldn't the President's personal opinion on a current subject of discussion be included? Are the opinions of the current Democratic President supposed to be censored on Democratic Underground?

[Demit]

49. You've added nothing to the discussion, is my point. YOU.

Is it your position that this interview nine months ago was obscure, somehow hidden from us, thus you were presenting new & astounding information that would definitively settle a debate?

Obviously, the president's remarks are still open to interpretation, as evidenced by this very thread. So there are no astonishing insights to be gained from your copy-and-paste post. Just a rehash of people's entrenched positions.

[Douglas Carpenter]

53. having the discussion factually based instead of emtionally based has some value - at least I think

so. There is nothing wrong with people debating an interpretation of the Presidents expressed opinions.

[JoePhilly]

40. The shit won't just stir itself.

[Douglas Carpenter]

56. I don't consider the opinions of the President of the United States to be shit

Maybe you disagree? A Democratic Party oriented discussion forum seems like a perfectly appropriate place to discuss the President's outlook on things under current discussion.

[JoePhilly]

58. Especially if we twist his every phrase.

[Douglas Carpenter]

61. now exactly how is a word for word verbatim quote twisting his every phrase?

At four minutes into the interview is when the President describes his policies aas in some ways less liberal than President Nixon:

[still_one]

52. just an opportunity for another thread to bash Obama, and how he is worse than bush, etc. etc. etc.

[Douglas Carpenter]

57. if you consider the President's own opinion about his record to be bashing Obama - I don't know how

I can counter an argument like that. I respect his candidness and honesty. I for one think his own opinion about his own record is worthy of respect.

[still_one]

60. He never said he was Conservative. So that in itself is bullshit and a misrepresentation. In fact

his position on Affirmative action, gay rights, civil rights, women's rights, the environment, healthcare, and a whole host of other issues are the exact opposite of what conservatives stand for today.

but please continue to distort. The MSM does it, the republican do it, and some here do also.

[Douglas Carpenter]

64. I never said he was a conservative either. Frankly, by current standards he is a "centrist"

according to current parlance in a nation where the political class has shift way to the right - Although he is fairly liberal on social issues - but he is certainly not a New Deal/Great Society Democrat. I don't understand what is so wrong with accepting the President's own description of his own record. Unlike some people around here, I respect the President's right to define himself in his own words.

[nationalize the fed]

65. Obama on Univision:

"I'd be considered a moderate republican"

[Douglas Carpenter]

105. that's right - allowing the President to speak for himself and define himself is bashing

[mimi85]

106. Um, a bit of a failure to communicate. It won't happen again. ;-)

[TheNutcracker]

31. Best argument here is the logo on the post! Bernie Sanders for President - EXACTLY!

[Rex]

42. Am I supposed to get all worked up over what Obama thinks about himself?

It's obvious Billy Blow hates liberals, we all get it. He sounds like a few people here actually. Obama was probably trying to find some common ground so BB wouldn't act like a giant fuckwad, little did he know BB was going to be a dick no matter what Obama said.

Of course he is completely wrong about being anything like Tricky Dicky. But hey if that is what he thinks about himself, who am I to argue?

[HereSince1628]

44. IMO, it's just sad.

Is Obama less liberal than Nixon? Well, not the Obama that I know.

But by saying this Obama looks too much like the Obama I DON'T want to know

The Obama that measures his audience and then delivers a message.

I just wish Obama could be true to the message that he measured up and delivered to the base in 2008.

[lumberjack_jeff]

45. "Problem Statement" exhibit #1. n/t

[Ykcutnek]

46. At least Tricky Dick and President Obama looks more Presidential...

Than this guy would:

[BrotherIvan]

62. Are you fucking kidding me?

So your fawning posts are just because Obama is handsome? Wow, did you find the right place.

[Rex]

66. Pretzel logic.

They have nice hair.

[Douglas Carpenter]

69. that sums up what they think of issue oriented campaigns

[BrotherIvan]

72. It's particularly disturbing

So now we need a spokesmodel to run our country? That's how we get people like Sarah Palin. And Reagan. It likely goes to the meme on this board that "Bernie can't win." Because people want to have fantasies about their leaders rather than have a job or a home or a better life for their children. Lord, this country is doomed.

[Liberal_Dog]

93. You Vote Based On Looks?

Seriously?

[Ykcutnek]

98. No, I vote based on having healthcare for the first time in my life.

President Obama's administration has been very good to me.

So was Bill Clinton's.

Get the fuck over it.

[B Calm]

47. Eisenhower was more liberal than the last 6 presidents combined!

[Rex]

68. He was a dying breed imo.

Seen the hell of war and warned against turning into a nation owned by the war profiteers. He would be repulsed by the Bush family imo.

[sabrina 1]

48. Why is this President so ashamed of being Liberal? This isn't the first time he's tried to tell

morons on the Right, like O'Reilly, how unLiberal he really is.

Too bad he doesn't treat them the way FDR did, who laughed at them and 'welcomed' their hatred. Or like JFK who declared his pride in being a Liberal.

It is sad to see someone who I thought was going to be a proud Liberal leader, who would join the ranks of other great Democratic presidents, almost begging the Right to please believe him, he is not a Liberal. Why? I just don't get it.

[BlindTiresias]

71. Leftists are hated here

They always have been and always will be.

[BrotherIvan]

73. That's not entirely true

Obama campaigned as a liberal, tugging at each individual leftie heart string and making promises. Regardless of what 3rd wayers who always pull out "you weren't listening" and "he campaigned as center-left/right" he positioned himself as a liberal agains McCain's conservatism.

And he won. People voted for him. TWICE. They heard all the smears about Alinsky and Ayers and that Obama was a secret commie pinko, but they cam out to vote for him. They wanted what he was selling.

Democrats are so afraid of being called liberals because they have allowed and continue to allow Republicans to define and frame the conversation. Here is a Democratic President, the leader of the Democratic Party, running away from the liberal label. Trying to act like being more conservative is better. It only perpetuates the idea that being a liberal is bad and conservative policies are good. It's so infuriating.

[BlindTiresias]

75. Perhaps

But there is certainly a cultural hatred of them in many parts of the U.S. and the structure of the United States is such that without some mega majorities (impossible) the right wing status quo is cemented so they can continue to sow more hatred for the left. I think we have yet to see how far the right wing will go and that "totalitarianism" isn't just something authoritarian communists do.

[JEB]

70. How dare he malign our president like that.

Oh wait, never mind.

[grahamhgreen]

103. Racist, unicorn pony riding fantasy man!

[MisterP]

76. the people who say "whatever he says, I believe because it has to be true" are also the ones

who say "he's the first big step on the long climb to democratic socialism (which of course means you have to let the Dems coopt you 'cuz there's nowhere else to turn"

[NYC Liberal]

79. And he was 100%, completely, objectively WRONG. Nixon was in NO WAY "more liberal" than Barack Obama.

[whatchamacallit]

82. Tempering expectations?

Getting us ready for deals and bargains to come?

[ozone_man]

96. Like how many times did we say that ourselves?

It is just an honest statement of fact by Obama. In many ways he is more conservative than Nixon.

[DemocraticWing]

101. People wonder why Senate candidates run away from Obama...

Obama runs from himself!

[grahamhgreen]

102. Still trying to qualify himself to the Republicans.... Sad.

[ZombieHorde]

104. Hilarious.

Sometimes I suspect our President enjoys trolling everyone. So funny.

[left is right]

108. I said exactly this

to my winger brother the summer if 2008, when he called, now, PBO a commie.

[woo me with science]

109. kick