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Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 08:58 AM Nov 2014

Is Obama right? Is Broadband Internet A Public Utility?

Last edited Tue Nov 11, 2014, 11:43 AM - Edit history (5)

Is broadband internet access vital to national interests and security? Is it's use so common and widespread and integrated into society that it's loss would cause catastrophic failure of economic or social systems?

Then it is a utility and it must be regulated as a public utility, with far greater control by the FCC than it currently has.

It is about Net Fairness, not just Net Neutrality, regulation as a public utility would also reign in the turf war between the content providers and the owners of the pipelines.

If Broadband Internet is a public utility then the consumer wins and the cable companies lose, the content provides lose, everyone else wins, everyone else has equal access to the public utility at the same price, more or less, and the same ready and easy access to a vital public resource based solely on price. Obama opposes the corporations controlling the volume and the price.....and the privacy....who controls all that, the corporations or the public?

This issue is going to separate the third way folks from the liberals, it may have been his intent, as well as to put pressure on the cable companies to stop revisiting current proposed regulations.

With Broadband Internet being a utility....cell phones, wireless communications....instead of corporations completely in control, it would be in the public domain - theoretically controlled by and for The People, not just the corporations...so of course they are stunned and howl and send in their hounds to shout at the black man that said the truth. Why is there even a debate as to why liberals must support Obama 100% on this?

The Internet is just a bunch of tubes, after all, sewage lines is the best comparison, but also just like your electricity, water, gas, oil, cable, and it is in such general use and importance it should not be left to the absolute control of private corporations.


"For almost a century, our law has recognized that companies who connect you to the world have special obligations not to exploit the monopoly they enjoy over access in and out of your home or business," Obama said in his statement. "That is why a phone call from a customer of one phone company can reliably reach a customer of a different one, and why you will not be penalized solely for calling someone who is using another provider. It is common sense that the same philosophy should guide any service that is based on the transmission of information -- whether a phone call, or a packet of data."

President Barrack Obama, November 10, 2014
@APEC Summit, Bejing

http://l1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/3.IGATCzGAo8OBewWCrlCw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTM3NztweG9mZj01MDtweW9mZj0wO3E9NzU7dz02NzA-/
....................................


http://www.thewire.com/technology/2014/05/is-broadband-internet-a-public-utility/362093/


"With the FCC nearing a vote about proposed net neutrality regulations, Chairman Tom Wheeler issued a series of revisions to the proposal this week. The most interesting revision that Wheeler offers is an examination of whether or not net neutrality is the jurisdiction of the FCC at all. He invited public comments as to whether broadband Internet service could actually be a public utility, similar to gas, water, sewage treatment, and electricity. If broadband Internet is reclassified as a public utility, Internet service providers would be subject to stricter and more developed regulation, far beyond the scope of what the FCC can manage.

While a reclassification has not yet been made, the proposal does open the door to a discussion about the future of the Internet and what role it plays in our lives."


............

"But aren't all public utilities really monopolies?

The greatest issue with deeming broadband Internet a public utility is the inherent monopolization in this space; both natural monopoly and regulated private monopoly. While some may distinguish between the two, they are truly the same in many ways — and there lies the problem of deeming Internet a public utility.

As Forbes' Tim Worstall artfully describes: "In the U.S. a utility is usually made up of two things, power generation and power distribution. It is true that, to a very large extent...power distribution is a natural monopoly." A natural monopoly can be created when one service is far above and beyond the others in efficiency and size, or far more reasonable in cost. However, regulated private monopolies become natural monopolies because of the power distribution channels. There is not enough to be gained, both monetarily and in the sense of power, to have two competing distribution channels. In the end, the companies congeal, forming monopolies."

55 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Is Obama right? Is Broadband Internet A Public Utility? (Original Post) Fred Sanders Nov 2014 OP
WWFDRD? Enthusiast Nov 2014 #1
Askk what WWFDRD means? 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author Qutzupalotl Nov 2014 #3
Yeah, I know what the letters represent ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #4
Perhaps you're forgetting the Glass-Steagall Act? MannyGoldstein Nov 2014 #5
You are absolutely correct about G/S, thanks. eom 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #9
then ask WWTRD? /nt demwing Nov 2014 #6
Wendy Wilkie would beg to differ. ieoeja Nov 2014 #7
Oops, I'm wrong again. Thanks. 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #13
I hear what you are saying but one thing FDR did with utilities is support them and subsidize them. jwirr Nov 2014 #17
wow, Fair Labor Standards Act anyone? Enrique Nov 2014 #18
Probably assemble a cartel of regional ISPs Recursion Nov 2014 #10
What would Aaron Swartz do? proverbialwisdom Nov 2014 #23
Use a carrier pigeon to pay bills instead of internet banking or USPO. L0oniX Nov 2014 #8
Yes. He is 100% correct. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2014 #11
So taxpayer money should pay for expanding and maintaining the Internet? Nt hack89 Nov 2014 #47
Yes. Dr Hobbitstein Nov 2014 #50
I agree with you. Towns and cities should be able to run their own infrastructure. nt hack89 Nov 2014 #52
Of course it is. NutmegYankee Nov 2014 #12
Not if it isn't already. And using the Post Office as an example? Uh, no. WinkyDink Nov 2014 #14
LOL! This^ cherokeeprogressive Nov 2014 #26
Not only vital to security, but... JaneyVee Nov 2014 #15
Yes, he is right. nt stevenleser Nov 2014 #16
There's one big difference between broadband customerserviceguy Nov 2014 #19
Doubtful jeff47 Nov 2014 #25
It's true that cell phone company competition is sort of a joke customerserviceguy Nov 2014 #45
Heavy regulation is the real issue, not how an industry is classified or who regulates it. merrily Nov 2014 #28
For the time being BarackTheVote Nov 2014 #44
At one time customerserviceguy Nov 2014 #46
How many 80 colum punch cards would it take to power your smart phone............ wandy Nov 2014 #53
I'm having trouble customerserviceguy Nov 2014 #54
Their is a lot of history here, and as allays some of that history........ wandy Nov 2014 #55
It was our tax dollars that created the internet, so yes! B Calm Nov 2014 #20
But not the actual physical infrastructure nt hack89 Nov 2014 #48
Yes, and public utility districts should be allowed to provide it. n/t lumberjack_jeff Nov 2014 #21
As oppose to the FCC? Why? merrily Nov 2014 #31
That's not what I meant. lumberjack_jeff Nov 2014 #43
Informative read. proverbialwisdom Nov 2014 #22
Broadband is to future commercial enterprises like the superhighways were in the 1940s and 1950s. JDPriestly Nov 2014 #24
The point Obama raised is not whether the internet already IS a public utility. merrily Nov 2014 #27
This is quite true JustAnotherGen Nov 2014 #35
I don't know who you mean by "we?" merrily Nov 2014 #36
I've got to ask the question again JustAnotherGen Nov 2014 #29
I don't understand your question. merrily Nov 2014 #30
I don't know merrily - do they mean that? JustAnotherGen Nov 2014 #32
I am still lost, Justanothergen. I am wondering what you mean, not what Obama means. merrily Nov 2014 #34
I gotta disagree on this point JustAnotherGen Nov 2014 #37
I do see your point, but the cost of government compliance is a cost of doing business, too! merrily Nov 2014 #41
Maybe this will help? merrily Nov 2014 #38
It does - if you explain it that way JustAnotherGen Nov 2014 #39
Your knowledge of the industry in the real world far surpasses mine, which is miniscule. merrily Nov 2014 #40
Yes Rex Nov 2014 #33
I can't understand TBF Nov 2014 #42
Yay, socialism! No, I mean that. The GOPTeas were right! He IS a socialist! freshwest Nov 2014 #49
To put in the most simple terms, Yes, because: Paper Roses Nov 2014 #51

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #2)

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
4. Yeah, I know what the letters represent ...
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 10:56 AM
Nov 2014

Last edited Tue Nov 11, 2014, 12:17 PM - Edit history (1)

But I'm pretty certain FDR would not.

But seriously, I'm not so sure a time-transported FDR would have made this call ... he did not nationalize the banks (or any industries); nor did he break up any monopolies, that I am aware of.

As saintly the memory of FDR, I can't recall a single solution that caused corporations to change the way they did business.


ETA: As DUers have reminded me ... I strike my last comment.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
5. Perhaps you're forgetting the Glass-Steagall Act?
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 11:12 AM
Nov 2014

And others?

Also, not quite the same thing, but FDR also created a national corporation to employ millions of Americans, called the WPA. It drove up wages.

 

ieoeja

(9,748 posts)
7. Wendy Wilkie would beg to differ.
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 11:29 AM
Nov 2014

As one of FDR's earliest supporters, Wilkie was infuriated about the Tennessee Valley Authority. Before that bunch learned to lie about such things, Wilke argued about the fairness of the TVA. He pointed out that business could never compete against the government.

In fact, after losing the battle against the TVA, Wilkie got out of the electric business altogether.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
17. I hear what you are saying but one thing FDR did with utilities is support them and subsidize them.
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 11:47 AM
Nov 2014

REA is the example I am thinking about. That is how we got electricity in the rural areas. today this utility is still controlled by strict laws.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
10. Probably assemble a cartel of regional ISPs
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 11:33 AM
Nov 2014

And promise them no new players could enter the market if they would agree to unofficial price controls.

proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
23. What would Aaron Swartz do?
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 12:53 PM
Nov 2014
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/white-house-gets-it-net-neutrality-will-fcc-0



NOVEMBER 10, 2014 | BY CORYNNE MCSHERRY

The White House Gets It Right On Net Neutrality. Will the FCC?


Over the past year, millions of Internet users have spoken out in defense of the open Internet. Today, we know the White House heard us.

In a statement issued this morning, President Barack Obama has called on the Federal Communications Commission to develop new “net neutrality” rules and, equally importantly, establish the legal authority it needs to support those rules by reclassifying broadband service as a “telecommunications service.”

This is very welcomed news. Back in May, the Federal Communications Commission proposed flawed “net neutrality” rules that would effectively bless the creation of Internet “slow lanes.” After months of netroots protests, we learned the FCC began to settle on a “hybrid” proposal that, we fear, is legally unsustainable.

Here's why: if the FCC is going to craft and enforce clear and limited neutrality rules, it must first do one important thing. The FCC must reverse its 2002 decision to treat broadband as an “information service” rather than a “telecommunications service.” This is what’s known as Title II reclassification. According to the highest court to review the question, the rules that actually do what many of us want — such as forbidding discrimination against certain applications — require the FCC to treat access providers like “common carriers, ” treatment that can only be applied to telecommunications services. Having chosen to define broadband as an “information service,” the FCC can impose regulations that “promote competition” (good) but it cannot stop providers from giving their friends special access to Internet users (bad).

<>

Multiple embedded links at original.
 

L0oniX

(31,493 posts)
8. Use a carrier pigeon to pay bills instead of internet banking or USPO.
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 11:30 AM
Nov 2014

My point is that it is a necessity to have internet connections for paying bills, applying for jobs and a host of things that are vital to the public. Ask why the USPO was made a public gov service back then. If we have public gov roads for businesses and work as a necessity then it follows that the internet should be the same. I don't expect Wallmart to make 10 lane roads to and from their stores but oh if it's the internet then they can pay for wider bandwidth and choke off the little stores. This is corporate bully bullshit.

 

Dr Hobbitstein

(6,568 posts)
11. Yes. He is 100% correct.
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 11:33 AM
Nov 2014

Just as the USPS and highway system are public utilities, so should the internet be.

NutmegYankee

(16,199 posts)
12. Of course it is.
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 11:34 AM
Nov 2014

Only the Magical thinkers and their "Invisible Hand God" think otherwise. The best case for regulation is the fact that internet access is faster and cheaper in places with it.

 

JaneyVee

(19,877 posts)
15. Not only vital to security, but...
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 11:37 AM
Nov 2014

It makes America more competitive in education as well. The internet has become something virtually impossible to live without, and those without it are at a serious disadvantage in society.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
19. There's one big difference between broadband
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 12:19 PM
Nov 2014

and what we traditionally think of as a 'utility'. The basic utilities, such as water, sewer, electricity, and natural gas are all supplied by pipes and wires, and it is efficient to have only one network of these physical things to supply the households and businesses of a given area, hence, they are 'natural' monopolies, and need to be closely regulated by government.

Broadband can be delivered in a number of ways, and frankly, the hardwired ways of doing so are probably disappearing. The future of broadband is in wireless technologies that can support a fair sized number of suppliers who compete with each other, just like cell phone companies do today.

I'm sure that twenty years from now, people will look back at the debate we're having today, and share a good laugh at how quaint it was, much the same way that I can look back at the days when MCI and Sprint were trying to take long distance customers away from Ma Bell. No one back in those days could envision that some day there would be no such thing as a long distance call (domestically, at least) if all a person had was a cell phone.

Setting up broadband as a government regulated utility would just ossify the industry, and provide a guaranteed profit to something that would not be incentivized to innovate or die. I know, I work for a utility company that gets a lot of its management from the dying landline and cable industries, and innovation is often handled ham-handedly.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
25. Doubtful
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 01:25 PM
Nov 2014
Broadband can be delivered in a number of ways, and frankly, the hardwired ways of doing so are probably disappearing. The future of broadband is in wireless technologies that can support a fair sized number of suppliers who compete with each other, just like cell phone companies do today.

You mean the 4 cell phone companies. We used to have a whole lot more.

Just because there is no physical connection does not mean natural monopolies can not form. There's massive efficiency gains (and thus cost savings) with larger wireless carriers. That's why we basically have only 2 in this country, with 2 smaller entities that are propped up to keep the appearance of competition.

Additionally, we can transmit a hell of a lot more data over a physical link, and that will continue - basic physics mean you can jam more data down a cable than over a radio. There will be large swaths of the country where it's not cost-effective enough to serve by landline, but that's because there's not a lot of customers there. With rural areas evaporating, we're consolidating into fewer and fewer cities, which can be competitively served via landline due to the inherent speed benefits of physical links.

And there's also the current situation on the ground. I live in a city. Yet I have one option for broadband: Time Warner. A small phone company made a deal with the developer of the neighborhood I live in to run the phone lines, and since they're small they are not required to let AT&T run over those lines. And since they're small, the only option from them is slow DSL service - they couldn't afford to upgrade. Despite being well-covered by all 4 wireless companies, data caps mean that is not an option.

So yeah, there needs to be government regulation because in so many cases there are only one or two realistic broadband options. And even in your scenario where wireless kills off landline, we would have two realistic options - AT&T and Verizon.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
45. It's true that cell phone company competition is sort of a joke
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 08:10 PM
Nov 2014

But there are lots of little ones out there, stealing the cream of the crop of customers (Metro PCS comes to mind) with flat rate pricing deals that make sense for the people who can be served by their networks. New technologies will mean new delivery service options in the future that are not imaginable today, except to a visionary few. I used to watch space launches as a kid in the Sixties, I had no idea that a large number of people would obtain information and entertainment services from satellites.

You make my point vividly on cable companies, they were granted monopolies back in the Sixties, and they've not had to grow and innovate, so they've been overtaken by other providers, especially those who use fiber optic lines. But I insist that wireless technologies will be the ones to develop the fastest, as the infrastructure required is so significantly less. That makes it possible for the Richard Branson/Elon Musk types to launch new delivery systems from scratch.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
28. Heavy regulation is the real issue, not how an industry is classified or who regulates it.
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 01:43 PM
Nov 2014

Television is heavily regulated, as are telephones, as are "common carriers," like buses that serve the general public (as opposed to renting to private parties, like rock stars or bridal parties).

Everyone seems to have plenty of incentive to make money and they have, they do and they will.

BarackTheVote

(938 posts)
44. For the time being
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 03:21 PM
Nov 2014

cable and fiber are still the most secure and reliable means of connecting to the internet. Far from "disappearing," the next leap forward is fiber, which offers the same benefits as cable while increasing speed and carrying capacity. Wireless connections like DSL are susceptible to weather conditions, so they aren't nearly as reliable, and just because something is wireless doesn't mean it doesn't need a "pipeline" to get to your house.

In the case of wireless, the pipe is its frequency in the spectrum, which is a finite resource, which is why the FCC exists in the first place (to make sure the spectrum is clearly divided and channels don't bleed into and interfere with each other.) The spectrum is actually more of a limited resource than cable--you can always lay more cable, given the right permits and enough money, but you cannot add to the spectrum, which is why all the hubub around the turn of the century about broadcasters going digital: to free up spectrum.

The spectrum is also divided up through licenses, so it's not like you can just create a start-up for a wireless company and start using spectrum just because--those airwaves belong to somebody, and they are not going to be happy about you eating up their bandwidth and interfering with their signals.

So, yeah, either way, internet is a utility.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
46. At one time
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 08:13 PM
Nov 2014

we thought we could only carry one signal through a fiber optic cable. Technologies change, and opportunities come forth.

wandy

(3,539 posts)
53. How many 80 colum punch cards would it take to power your smart phone............
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:53 AM
Nov 2014

If thirty years ago the computer industry were left to their own devices we would still be using flippin punch cards.
MCI and Sprint were taking business away from "Ma Bell" because of anti trust laws.
The "baby bells" were of a size where competition was possible.

Combined Verizon, Comcast and ATT&T make for one "Mother" of a water monopoly.
No matter what is used at the transport layer.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
54. I'm having trouble
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 01:21 AM
Nov 2014

making a coherent point out of what you said.

As far as I have known my entire life, the computer industry has come up with innovation on top of innovation, and it didn't have anything to do with them being a regulated industry.

wandy

(3,539 posts)
55. Their is a lot of history here, and as allays some of that history........
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:23 PM
Nov 2014

looks different in respective than it did when it happened.
This may provide a background..............
Back to the 1970s: IBM in mainframe antitrust suit again
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2009/10/09/back-to-the-1970s-ibm-in-mainframe-antitrust-suit-again/

What might happen if in this type of situation a company decided they could better profit by making the market more 'open'.

Of course another of Ronald Reagan's "gifts" assure that Verizon, Comcast and ATT&T will never have those problems.
What is more, with a little help from ALEC their dominance is assured. Even if they make higher profit by switching to bare wire telephone poles.

North Carolina Enacts Pro-ISP, Anti-Municipal Broadband Law

North Carolina Governor Bev Perdue has announced that she won’t sign or veto the controversial bill on municipal broadband sent to her desk by the state legislature. The legislation reigns in the power of cities and towns to commission their own broadband networks. Perdue’s inaction means that House Bill 129 is a done deal.

http://www.wired.com/2011/05/nc-gov-anti-muni-broadband/

Does this help?
 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
43. That's not what I meant.
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 03:14 PM
Nov 2014

The president says that broadband should be a utility like electricity, water or telephones.

In the west, utilities are often provided by public utility districts. As of today, due to the lobbying of cable and telephone companies, those PUDs are prohibited from selling broadband although they have rights of way and already have fiber optic installed throughout their service area.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
24. Broadband is to future commercial enterprises like the superhighways were in the 1940s and 1950s.
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 01:02 PM
Nov 2014

Everyone should have equal access and be able to travel at maximum speed.

For the government to allow richer companies who can pay more for broadband access to enjoy a higher speed of delivery would be like building a fast lane on the freeways just for those trucking companies that can pay premium prices.

If we are to have free competition, nurture new ideas and new enterprises and keep our entrepreneurial spirit going, we have to have one speed for the internet and everybody having equal access and equal speed on the internet.

If i want to order socks on the internet from the Sock Lady in Vermont (yes, there is such a company and I just found out about it on the weekend -- great socks in my opinion but I am not linked to the company in any way so I can't vouch for it), I should be able to access her website just as fast as I can access the website for one of the major sock producers.

And if I prefer to go to DU rather than to MSNBC for my morning news review, I should be able to get to either website equally fast.

Net neutrality is the only way to go.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
27. The point Obama raised is not whether the internet already IS a public utility.
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 01:39 PM
Nov 2014

It is not. Whether a business is also a public utility depends to a great degree on statutes and government agencies. As of today, internet service is not classified as a public utility, thanks to the FCC.

The Supreme Court has said that the FCC cannot regulate heavily without reclassifying a business activity as a public utility. However, the FCC tried to pretty much ignore the Supreme Court on that point by regulating heavily without reclassifying. Verizon and others sued, citing the Supreme Court case and, surprise, surprise, lower courts followed the Supreme Court precedent.

Wheeler then started toward greater freedom for internet providers, but his efforts got leaked and the public commented negatively in great numbers--4 million strong, according to Obama.

Obama said that the FCC should re-classify internet service should said it should be reclassified as public utility so that the FCC can require net neutrality (as most ordinary Americans understand that term).

So, the question is, should the internet be reclassified? Telephone companies, when they deliver telephone services, are public utilities, but, as of now, they are not classified as public utilities when they deliver internet services. I see no reason for that divide. I am very certain, however, that internet service providers do see one and will sue again, this time over being reclassified. And, it will get to the SCOTUS again.

JustAnotherGen

(31,823 posts)
35. This is quite true
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 02:31 PM
Nov 2014
Telephone companies, when they deliver telephone services, are public utilities, but, as of now, they are not classified as public utilities when they deliver internet services. I see no reason for that divide. I am very certain, however, that internet service providers do see one and will sue again, this time over being reclassified. And, it will get to the SCOTUS again.



When you get to the LECs and CLECS - they get really sticky on that point. I.E. We were told to expand by government to support government but we did that at our own expense.


That's how a Citizens aka Frontier will look at the subject.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
36. I don't know who you mean by "we?"
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 02:35 PM
Nov 2014

I also have no idea what this means:

That's how a Citizens aka Frontier will look at the subject.


I have a feeling that you have something very specific in mind, but are talking in general terms and I am just having trouble tracking with you.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
30. I don't understand your question.
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 01:49 PM
Nov 2014

Do you mean that reclassification of ISPs as public utilities will, in and of itself, will shift whatever debt ISP's are already in to the government?

JustAnotherGen

(31,823 posts)
32. I don't know merrily - do they mean that?
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 02:20 PM
Nov 2014

The massive debt that exists on these companies' books. They owe wall street big time.

Make sure the debt issues are resolved and there is a massive stop put in place on innovation, r & d, employee salaries and benefits - before we proceed. I would also hope there would be a buyout structure in place.

I.E. a Buy Out - You are going to have to retire because there is no need for you anymore. Marketing, sales, product management (no longer products as utilities don't make those distinctions), product development, interoperability. . . how will the telecom unions survive?

I need to make sure the union workers are going to be secure before I get on this bandwagon. I think a company like Comcast which uses contract employees for installation will be aok - they will continue on with the $10 an hour.

But I don't know about the ones with large numbers of union employees who fought hard for their benefits all of these years. I don't think Fed Gov can afford them.

As well - it's pretty standard in business to receive 2 weeks salary for each year of service. Example - my first boss at major wireless is 47. This is the only place she's worked - interning for NYNEX and airtouch. I would want Jane to get what she is earned because there is ZERO need for innovation in a public utility environment. John P - 70 years old - wife's pension is at risk from Chris Christie's behavior. 40 years. Make sure the Telcos are REQUIRED to meet these obligations before the punish their employees.


Look at the AT & T deal that just closed - $2.5 billion dollars for Isuacell. . . they are doing it with capital expenditures.


Shifting to a utility means you do support and maintenance. ThinK PSEG, Elizabethtown Gas, etc. etc. They do PSA's - not advertising.

I *think* that means you have to shift out everything not related to that into private enterprise which would then sell back to Fed Gov.

We'll have to wait and see what the FCC has in store - but I hope it's not - FCC decides and by June 2015 it just is.

Not everyone in these companies makes billions of dollars a year in salary. And this is an industry that was punished by Wall Street at the beginning of the century. There are a lot of "I was out of work for 2 years and finally the wireless and broadband business expanded and I was able to feed my family again" in this game.

I just don't want to see these people put out of work as a knee jerk reaction by Executive staffs.

Make sense? I hope the FCC is looking to PROTECT THE WORKER. It's a wait and see thing - but we should all hope they do that - wherever this goes.


Kind of a lengthy answer - but you've read me enough to know that I can sometimes look at things five different ways. I'll be okay if they say - bye bye. But a lot of of folks won't.

When the game is over - it's over. That's why I've got that import/export license. I can use it anywhere in the world. But there are only what/ Maybe 14 people in all Communications in the US that have that job? We all do our update training together at the same company based out in Long Island.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
34. I am still lost, Justanothergen. I am wondering what you mean, not what Obama means.
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 02:25 PM
Nov 2014

Public utilities are privately owned, just heavily regulated by the government. (That is not always so. For instance, there are government owned bus lines as well as privately owned bus lines, but let's not get into that wrinkle just yet.)

The debt private companies that are heavily regulated got themselves into is their problem, just as with any other privately owned company. So are their union issues. To pay off existing debt, they will either issue debt securities or equity securities or raise prices to customers, or something else, just like any other capitalist enterprise.

Reclassification, in and of itself, will not alter that.

I must be missing your meaning.

JustAnotherGen

(31,823 posts)
37. I gotta disagree on this point
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 02:48 PM
Nov 2014
The debt private companies that are heavily regulated got themselves into is their problem, just as with any other privately owned company.

Heavy pressure was put on the major carriers to expand their data - by the government. One of the biggest pressure points is/was by the pentagon.

They did it at their own expense. And - having seen some of those agreements - Fed and State and Local Govs are at extremely low rates - often at cost. In some cases when touching abroad - the companies actually LOSE money.

So for the high speed internet innovation (I think everyone follows the Samsung business model now . . . know precisely what you will be doing in 10 years) - do they stop now. I could see Sprint going that route. Fed Gov is extremely reliant on wireless data - and I know they have a chunk of that business.


If I'm Sprint - if my debt is mine - yet you are going to drive down my business model to not profitable - because they are struggling as it is - I'm not making it in my home enterprise environment . . . What do you cut first? Forward innovation. And Forward employees.


Something else HOPE we see - since this all really came to a head with a B2B dispute - think Netflix . . .

I don't want to see large enterprises traffic go to the front of the line.

First Responders and Military should always go to the front. Then the consumer. Then enterprise.


It has to be truly equal with the exception of an emergency or national security issue. Everyone pays the exact same price. Everyone gets the same SLA. No exceptions.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
41. I do see your point, but the cost of government compliance is a cost of doing business, too!
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 03:09 PM
Nov 2014

And, obviously, the debt you are talking about was not the result of being reclassified as a public utility to help consumers because that has not happened yet. Sounds like it was a cost of something I don't even want to get into because the thread will get hijacked!

merrily

(45,251 posts)
38. Maybe this will help?
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 02:48 PM
Nov 2014

Reclassification, in and of itself, means only that the FCC will be able to regulate more heavily. Now, it may be that, in this third way world, the providers and government agree that government will help with costs of maintenance, or something, but the govt doing maintenance does not automatically come along with reclassification, in and of itself.

All railroads were considered public utilities long before government decided to subsidize Amtrak and make it some kind of third way hybrid of public obligation and private profit.


Classifying a gas or electric company as a public utility does not automatically mean that government is going to responsible for maintenance, though some other agreement between government and the utility might do that. However, that agreement is not an automatic or strictly necessary result of reclassification.



Does that make any sense?

JustAnotherGen

(31,823 posts)
39. It does - if you explain it that way
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 02:56 PM
Nov 2014

This will also open the way for competive wireless environment.


I.E. The wholesale business. It's already there. Cricket, a lot of those prepaid programs in drug stores are really just resellers of VZW, AT & T.


Fed Gov won't regulate a C 'Wire' (think CLEC 15/20 years ago) business - they'll be looking at the Network Operators.


Truthfully - I'd love to go out in that wild west environment - I came into industry at. It was a LOT of fun.

Let's stand by - because I still think Sprint will use it as an excuse. T Mobile - Letch was not brought in to do anything but tear it down. That's what he does. He needs an excuse.

That would open up more space for carriers/carriers - think like 360 and Level 3 back in the day. Someone is going to grab chunks of them.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
40. Your knowledge of the industry in the real world far surpasses mine, which is miniscule.
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 03:04 PM
Nov 2014

You raise a lot of interesting issues. Hopefully, they will sort out in way that is good for consumers, employees and taxpayers. There are no perfect solutions that I know of to any complex problem.

But, you're probably right: some investors are going to make a lot of money out of it, one way or another. That does seem to be a constant, no matter how an industry is classified.

TBF

(32,060 posts)
42. I can't understand
Tue Nov 11, 2014, 03:09 PM
Nov 2014

why this is even an issue. I suppose because the media gets a lot of ad revenue from telecom companies ....

We need net neutrality. POTUS is 100% correct about this.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
49. Yay, socialism! No, I mean that. The GOPTeas were right! He IS a socialist!
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:25 AM
Nov 2014


Captain Obama teleported to Starfleet Command.


Paper Roses

(7,473 posts)
51. To put in the most simple terms, Yes, because:
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:59 AM
Nov 2014

They use the same telephone polls, dig up the same streets, make you wait for service, then charge you an arm and a leg.

I see no difference.

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