I post this every year on Veterans Day:

[Jackpine Radical]

Memorial Days and Veterans Days always make me feel weird.

Especially when someone says "Thank you for your service." You see, I was an infantryman in Vietnam, but I did not serve willingly. I was drafted, forced into a deadly form of involuntary servitude, and whatever illusions I might originally have had about the rightness of the war were quickly torn from me when I saw what we were doing to the innocent people, the sacred soils, the beautiful waters and jungles and mountains of that tormented land.

"No, don't thank me," I want to say. "Forgive me. Forgive me for participating in that awful event in your name. If you must thank me for something, then thank me for joining the movement to stop the war when I got home. Maybe thank me for the things I have tried to do for the castoffs of society--the mentally ill, the developmentally disabled, the emotionally damaged products of chaotic and abusive homes who have gone on to fill our jails and prisons. But don't thank me for going off to participate in the destruction of a foreign land whose residents never intended any harm to you or me."

[Scuba]

1. K&R

[Jackpine Radical]

4. Yo Scuba--

Snow got you down yet? We have about 8" on top of ice.

[HubertHeaver]

40. Kinda early for that much, isn't it?

Doesn't that usually hold off until Thanksgiving weekend?

[Jackpine Radical]

44. It seems like it used to.

We'd always get a couple of inches or so just before deer season, which was always welcome because it made the woods quieter and the tracking easier. Traditional WI gun deer season opens the Saturday before Thanksgiving.

[LP2K12]

2. Welcome home.

That's what I'll say.

[Jackpine Radical]

3. Thanks.

[GGJohn]

5. Welcome Home Brother.

[IdaBriggs]

6. I am glad you lived.

I am glad you are doing good in the world.

I am sorry you were sent.

I am glad you are home.

I am glad you still care.

[mnhtnbb]

7. That's about the way my husband feels, too.

He was Berry planned and ended up in the AF for 2 years at McClellan in Sacramento
during the Vietnam era after he finished his psychiatric residency. He put in 20 years as a psychiatrist working
at VA hospitals--part time--during his career taking care of vets.

He's seen too much of the ravages of war and what it can do to the minds of men.

[yallerdawg]

8. I understand your ambivalence.

Since Vietnam, we have an all volunteer military. Some go in as patriots, some go in for a check, some go in for college opportunity, some went in as an alternative to imprisonment, some went in lost, nothing better to do.

But you went in because you were called to duty. And you answered, and put your life on the line.

There is absolutely nothing to forgive.

Thank you for your ongoing service to America - you are the backbone of this great experiment, and you helped forge a new America.

[Octafish]

9. .

[Jackpine Radical]

25. The blue heron is one of my totem animals.

Beautiful pic.

[KingCharlemagne]

10. Thank you for joining the movement to stop the war when

you got home. Vets like you and John Kerry helped pressure the war makers to end the war (or our involvement in it) more quickly, I think.

[democrank]

11. Here`s a hug from Vermont.

~PEACE~

[MissDeeds]

12. You are a treasure

(((Jackpine Radical)))

[Jackpine Radical]

26. I'm very touched.

[erlewyne]

13. Well written Jackpine

I have six grandchildren in a school a block away. The school
is having a veterans day program and I just could not attend
because my feelings are like yours. I just do not have time to
write details (I stood guard on Rudolph Hess). Myself and the
men I served with were drafted and the men rotating back to
civilian life always and often said "FTA!".

............ I just do not have time and thanks!

[sabrina 1]

14. You are one of the few people on DU whose posts I always make sure to read.

Thank you for continuing to serve this country by helping the 'castoffs of society -- the mentally ill, the developmentally disabled, the emotionally damaged products of chaotic and abusive homes who have gone on to fill our jails and prisons.'

Thank you ...

[Jackpine Radical]

27. I'm honored by your testimonial.

I have the poster of that Occupy ballerina & bull hanging in my office.

[sabrina 1]

28. There is something about that poster. The delicate physical astrength of the ballerina and the

powerful physical strength of the bull.

Glad you like it too!

[Orsino]

15. Can we thank for coming home, and for your citizenship?

Because it seems to me that you are doing good things, in some small part due to your experience in involuntary servitude.

Glad you're here. o7

[progressoid]

16. ...

[Stonepounder]

17. I WILL thank you for your service!

Not for what happened to you in Vitenam, but for what you have done since. I came within a hairsbreadth of getting for Vietnam. My lottery number was right on the edge of draft/no draft (For those too young to remember, each year there was a lottery. Birth dates were pulled and the order your birthday was pulled was your order in the draft. If your lottery number was 1 you were getting drafter for sure. If it was 365 you were safe. It was the middle ground where you weren't sure.) I even got called up for my physical, but never got the 'greetings' letter.

For those of us of draft age back then, many of us struggled mightily which path to take. Accept the draft and go fight in what was becoming to be seen more and more as an immoral war, refuse the draft and go to prison (as did Cassius Clay aka Muhammad Ali) or leave the country for someplace like Canada.

I trace the beginnings of our current 'low information' society to the Viewnam War protests. The 1% realized that young people who could actually think for themselves were a tremendous threat, so began the dumbing down of America. Our military does NOT fight for our 'freedom', since we are watching our freedom disappear anyway. It fights for the 1% so they can get richer. We don't revere our veterans at all. Once a year we give them a pat on the back and the rest of the time we ignore them and wish the would disappear. We underfund the VA, we call them 'takers', we fought for years to pretend that Agent Orange didn't cause health problems in Vietnam vets so we wouldn't have to pay to treat them. We tell today's military that depleted uranium shells are no problem. And so on. Blah. Blah. Blah.

I respect our men and women in uniform and I respect our vets. But I won't thank them for their service (unless they are my father's age and fought in WWII). And I certainly won't say they 'fought for my freedom'. If our military was 'fighting for our freedom' I'm afraid it would be declaring martial law and occupying Washington D.C. with Nuremberg type trials of much of Congress and SCOTUS.

[The Wizard]

42. The Sputnik factor

played a significant role in a generation of those who questioned authority. After the Soviets launched Sputnik there was a panic of sorts to get more Americans into college so as to compete with the "Red Menace" that had surpassed us in the space race and thus making us more vulnerable to attacks from space.
With so many people attending college and learning to critically think, the march to war for no logical reason became more difficult, hence "hell no we won't go."
Reagan's false bravado opened the path toward ignorance = patriotism. The deliberate dumbing down has made intelligence and education an anathema to mom, apple pie and baseball. In essence, we are in a state of permanent war for the benefit of defense contractors and the politicians they bribe who pass laws that drain the Treasury for the benefit of the connected few.

[hue]

18. Thanks Jackpine for Who You have evolved into; Who You are & Your Voice! Much appreciated!

[Mr.Bill]

19. I'm not a religious man,

but I'm going to say amen to that.

[valerief]

20. Thank you for your service to your country IN your country. nt

[Dr. Xavier]

21. There is nothing to forgive...

The biggest doves are the men, who actually saw battle. The ones who stared death and destruction in the face and realized it was wrong. It was inhumane. And to a man, they wouldn't want anyone else to go through what they went through. My dad was like that, he served under General Patton and he never wanted to see war again.

There is nothing to forgive... you have nothing to be ashamed for. Those of us, who sent you to do these horrendous acts are the ones who should be asking for forgiveness, but we won't because we have no shame, no humility, and most definitely no compassion.

Thank you for becoming a Peacemaker, that transition was the true part of your service, that of service to mankind. Enjoy the day, Jackpine, you've earned it.

[nolabear]

22. Remember, there's a difference between what you did and what happened to you.

You are not to blame. You had no choice that was tenable, maybe no choice at all. That war was insane and people knew it.

Thank you for coming home, and for every kind and hopeful thing you have done since. Thank you for this post. Thank you for speaking out.

[Old Nick]

23. Rec

[Central Scruitinizer]

24. Thank You for posting your answer

It is critical that more Americans learn your point of view.

Veteran's day is about your words, not freedumb.

[scarletwoman]

29. I most heartily thank you for all you've done since you've come home.

Today I've been thinking about all the Vietnam veterans I've known. The ones who committed suicide. The ones who did so many drugs after they came back that they lost their minds, became homeless, and disappeared from all attempts at contact. The ones who made one bad choice after another in their lives because they lost the ability to function in a world they couldn't cope with. The ones who drank themselves to death over the ensuing years.

These were my friends, my peer group, my age cohort from those long ago days. All of them gone from my life now. I had no power to keep them safe, to keep them close, to exorcise their demons. All those beautiful young boys I once knew before they got drafted; going to art films, pairing up at dances, stealing kisses at parties - then later, begging them to run to Canada.

I successfully helped two of my friends apply for Conscientious Objector status, by writing their application letters for them. Yet they were possessed by guilt for getting free, when the rest of their friends didn't. And so they drifted away, too.

As a woman, I was spared the suffering my male friends went through - all I could do was march in protest, then attempt to offer love and friendship upon their return. But it was never enough for most of them. Their wounds were beyond my capacity to heal. I had not been there.

You, dear friend, are among the very precious few that I know who have managed to pull your life together and transcend your wounds into a full beingness that has incorporated your pain into an integrated purpose. You need not ask forgiveness for a choice that was not yours.

I am unequivocally grateful that you are alive, and my thanks to you for the grace and generosity with which you have chosen to put your life to use.

[Jackpine Radical]

30. A most touching message from one who has come to mean so much to me over the years.

When I got back, I used to write letters in support of people's CO applications. I still remember the formula I used. I would send along a copy of my separation papers, which documented my having served in the infantry in combat, and the written narrative was something like, "Although, as my enclosed military records show, I disagree with XX's beliefs [a brazen lie, of course], I have known him for several years, before and after the time of my active service, and have often discussed his pacifistic philosophy with him, and am fully convinced of his sincerity in opposing war."

And thanks for all you and so many others did on the Home Front, SW.

(p.s. My post count is still higher than yours.)

[scarletwoman]

32. Oh fer...

(p.s. My post count is still higher than yours.)

DAMMIT!

And you know I'll never catch up now...

However, that aside (for now), you are one of the shining lights of DU. I'm so proud that I can call you "friend".

[KoKo]

33. Yes...to all of them.........

and generational for those who remember.

[scarletwoman]

34. I'll never forget.

Those that fell in that faraway jungle, and those that fell after they returned.

[KoKo]

31. ahh..the closeness of the same Generation....

People are beginning to forget Vietnam...

Actually, MOST have forgotten Vietnam.

When DU Started there were MANY.....now there are FEW.

Thank YOU for remembering. Classmates, and others.

Escaped it because of Draft Number....for Partner and Med School......but, MY CLASSMATES ...they were Not so Lucky.

And, I don't forget them and we should NEVER FORGET...yet...so Many Have....because we Vietnam Rememberers grow older.....and when one GROWS OLDER....there is "Push Back."
That's the Meme as New Wars Erupt......and new Veteran's with Disabilities Grows...it's ALL NEW TO THEM.....and Vietnam.....becomes some faded chapter in a history book..to be referred to...but mostly HISTORY.

[lastlib]

35. Something I read many years ago that stuck with me......

...and, I'm sorry, I cannot for the life of me locate the original source--it was near the end of the Vietnam war (1973 cease-fire):

"...And the millions of men who went off to war
Didn't know what they were fighting for.
With gods on their side, they mounted to ride
For kings who never cried."

[tclambert]

36. It's not your fault.

Whatever awful event you participated in, you did under duress. Those who put you under duress bear the responsibility and blame, and they deserve all the hellfire they get.

There's nothing to forgive you for, Jack.

Thank you, though, for fighting to stop the war when you got home. And thank you for helping the less fortunate.

[jaysunb]

37. And, I read it every year and think

"I could have written this. " Damn near word for word.

[sabrina 1]

38. ...

[grahamhgreen]

39. Thankyou for your service - fighting for peace and against these pointless wars.

[The Wizard]

41. From 82 C (FO) and 13 E (Artillery FDC)

I say Jackpine Radical, 11 B hit it out of the park.
One thing that let me know I wasn't alone with those feelings was listening to "Alice's Restaurant." To this day I listen every Thanksgiving, and it still makes me laugh, cry and think. If you ever get a chance to see Arlo perform it live, do it. You'll come away feeling better about yourself.

[Jackpine Radical]

43. I've seen Arlo do it live.

Unfortunately, he's betrayed his roots & come out as a libertarian these days.

[The Wizard]

45. Sometimes he's pulling legs. (NT)