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JEFF9K

(1,935 posts)
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:52 PM Nov 2014

Loretta Lynch - Good choice, bad optics?


My neighbor, Charlie, who claims to be a staunch liberal, thinks that Loretta Lynch is a good choice for Attorney General except for something that has recently been referred to as “optics.” Here is his argument:

Replacing a black male attorney general with a black female attorney general won't win any points with the millions of white males who have been going against their own interests and voting Republican.

A strongly disproportionate number of Obama's appointments have been women, minorities, or both.

His Supreme Court appointments were a Jewish woman and an Hispanic woman.

His first Secretary of State was Hillary Clinton.

Secretaries of the Interior include Hispanic Ken Salazar and Sally Jewell.

Secretaries of Labor include Hilda Solis and Thomas Perez.

Secretaries of Health and Human Services include Kathleen Sibelius and Sylvia Mathews Burwell.

The most prominent non-Hispanic white male in the administration may be the somewhat buffoonish Joe Biden.

Charlie, who has an advanced degree in psychology, says that it's highly unlikely that all or even most of Obama's picks are the best person available and that ignoring “optics” is hurting the Democratic Party.
64 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Loretta Lynch - Good choice, bad optics? (Original Post) JEFF9K Nov 2014 OP
Yeesh alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #1
Charlie says he's "just keepin' it real" ... JEFF9K Nov 2014 #2
Uh huh alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #6
I think Charlie doesn't realize his racial biases. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #9
Right. Control-Z Nov 2014 #13
His wife is Latina. JEFF9K Nov 2014 #25
Cool story. LanternWaste Nov 2014 #58
Of course he isn't. MH1 Nov 2014 #14
Not worrying about optics ... JEFF9K Nov 2014 #26
So if Obama had appointed more white men yardwork Nov 2014 #50
Charlie thinks appointing women to positions, is optics. KMOD Nov 2014 #18
Charlie is combining appearances ... JEFF9K Nov 2014 #24
So, Black Women are bad optics, then? bravenak Nov 2014 #48
My rebuttal Kalidurga Nov 2014 #3
I will relay the message ... JEFF9K Nov 2014 #27
I don't think that looking like the U.S. population is 'bad optics.' elleng Nov 2014 #4
He is also regarded by many as ... JEFF9K Nov 2014 #22
You and 'many' have missed this part, I guess. elleng Nov 2014 #42
Charlie on the other hand LiberalElite Nov 2014 #5
Charlie is consistent ... JEFF9K Nov 2014 #28
All optics, all the time is just as detrimental to one's point of view, too. randome Nov 2014 #31
Has Charlie checked out the number of elected white male Democrats? yardwork Nov 2014 #51
If she's good, she's good. ( Everyone seems to agree she's good.) Smarmie Doofus Nov 2014 #7
Winning elections isn't important? JEFF9K Nov 2014 #29
So appointing only white men wins elections? bravenak Nov 2014 #55
So President Obama ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #8
Sorry, but a lot of the "white guy" appointees have been the sucky ones - bullwinkle428 Nov 2014 #10
That's true. JEFF9K Nov 2014 #34
But at least the 'optics' are good. bravenak Nov 2014 #57
Wow. MrScorpio Nov 2014 #11
he isn't a staunch liberal, he is a racist who feels white men are being victimized JI7 Nov 2014 #12
There is a big difference ... JEFF9K Nov 2014 #36
i bet he is one of those who thinks he isn't a racist because he might come across a black JI7 Nov 2014 #15
Charlie sounds like a closet racist, or maybe just a morningfog Nov 2014 #16
Charlie predicted this ... JEFF9K Nov 2014 #37
Look, Charlie. I think you are wrong. morningfog Nov 2014 #47
did black women run in a lot of ballots? i saw an extraordinary number of white people lose elected La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2014 #63
White males, you've had your chance ... frazzled Nov 2014 #17
Sounds like they did move over yeoman6987 Nov 2014 #32
You are correct. JEFF9K Nov 2014 #39
And John Kerry. And Jack Lew. And more in the cabinet muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #45
LOL! Cali_Democrat Nov 2014 #59
Hasn't he noticed that white males are not the majority Retrograde Nov 2014 #19
Non hispanic whites are 61 percent of the population marmar Nov 2014 #33
But more than 50% of those are females. yardwork Nov 2014 #52
absolutely marmar Nov 2014 #60
Yeah! I'm finding that more & more with certain "staunch liberals". They'll never admit it. Tarheel_Dem Nov 2014 #20
She is qualified. The President gets to choose. And fuck your racist, sexist claptrap talk cali Nov 2014 #21
another neighbor Charlie thread LOL snooper2 Nov 2014 #23
I am unaware of any other ... JEFF9K Nov 2014 #30
Sissy Spacek was terrific in Coal Miner's Daughter. Orrex Nov 2014 #35
Cool story bro. tenderfoot Nov 2014 #38
I especially like the Latina wife detail. yardwork Nov 2014 #53
He was once criticized for not having a diverse ENOUGH cabinet... Ykcutnek Nov 2014 #40
Gosh, given the OP and your responses... Spazito Nov 2014 #41
Yep its optics. Problem solved. We can all go home now. Expect me thinks its the wrong optics that kydo Nov 2014 #43
Isn't it great how everyone seems to be focusing on Charlie (and his racism, or not) instead ChisolmTrailDem Nov 2014 #44
You shouldn't pander to the misconceptions of old angry racist white guys muriel_volestrangler Nov 2014 #46
Bad optics? Control-Z Nov 2014 #49
Yes, let's consider white men's feeling above all else. alarimer Nov 2014 #54
My neighbor, 'Charlie'. bravenak Nov 2014 #56
I dunno about using SWIM Kalidurga Nov 2014 #61
are you trying to tell us you are racist or your neighbour is a racist? La Lioness Priyanka Nov 2014 #62
"Charlie" sounds interesting Recursion Nov 2014 #64

MH1

(17,600 posts)
14. Of course he isn't.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:25 AM
Nov 2014

To be fair, I don't know him, and some people really are able to see others' perspectives without actually being that way themselves.

If that's the case though, I think he should just stop worrying about optics. We just lost the Senate and don't currently have a likely presidential candidate that is going to have broad appeal. I.e. the country is f*cked. May as well take this opportunity to appoint a black female to a post she's qualified for. Might be the last chance for awhile. We have much bigger problems than "optics" and I doubt they're going to make much difference for awhile. And I doubt any nimrod racist white man who is voting against his own interests just because he doesn't like "the Kenyan in the White House" is going to change his opinion much even if said Kenyan appoints a white guy to the job.

JEFF9K

(1,935 posts)
26. Not worrying about optics ...
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 10:32 AM
Nov 2014

Not worrying about optics can mean not winning elections. Not winning elections can mean not being able to carry out your policies.

yardwork

(61,648 posts)
50. So if Obama had appointed more white men
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:38 PM
Nov 2014

... the Democrats wouldn't have lost?

Do you see how silly that sounds?

JEFF9K

(1,935 posts)
24. Charlie is combining appearances ...
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 10:26 AM
Nov 2014

Charlie is combining appearances with reality. Both are important if you want to win elections.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
48. So, Black Women are bad optics, then?
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 02:58 PM
Nov 2014

I wonder if he realizes our party won't pull those people into the party if they already vote republican and feel that way about the 'optics' of a black female. And further more, most women vote Dem. So why appease republican men with OUR nominees? Ignore our base to get republican votes? So what happens when women don't come out because we are constantly appeasing republicans?

elleng

(130,964 posts)
4. I don't think that looking like the U.S. population is 'bad optics.'
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:04 AM
Nov 2014

and referring to Joe Biden as buffoonish is

Joe Biden became an attorney in 1969, and was elected to the New Castle County council in 1970. Biden was first elected to the Senate in 1972 and became the sixth-youngest senator in U.S. history. He was re-elected to the Senate six times, and was the fourth most senior senator at the time of his resignation. Biden was a long-time member and former chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. His strong advocacy helped bring about U.S. military assistance and intervention during the Bosnian War. He opposed the Gulf War in 1991. He voted in favor of the Iraq War Resolution in 2002, but later proposed resolutions to alter U.S. strategy there. He has also served as chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, dealing with issues related to drug policy, crime prevention, and civil liberties, and led creation of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act and Violence Against Women Act. He chaired the Judiciary Committee during the contentious U.S. Supreme Court nominations of Robert Bork and Clarence Thomas.

JEFF9K

(1,935 posts)
22. He is also regarded by many as ...
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 10:23 AM
Nov 2014

He is also regarded by many as somewhat of a buffoon - not the kind of thing that wins elections.

elleng

(130,964 posts)
42. You and 'many' have missed this part, I guess.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:37 AM
Nov 2014

'He was re-elected to the Senate six times.'

Too damn bad.

JEFF9K

(1,935 posts)
28. Charlie is consistent ...
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 10:39 AM
Nov 2014

Charlie is consistent in his beliefs on "optics." And optics isn't something that can be ignored. As a psychologist, Charlie says the message to white men is that the Democratic Party isn't for them.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
31. All optics, all the time is just as detrimental to one's point of view, too.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 10:53 AM
Nov 2014

[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you don't give yourself the same benefit of a doubt you'd give anyone else, you're cheating someone.[/center][/font][hr]

yardwork

(61,648 posts)
51. Has Charlie checked out the number of elected white male Democrats?
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:41 PM
Nov 2014

I call b.s. on Charlie's "facts."

 

Smarmie Doofus

(14,498 posts)
7. If she's good, she's good. ( Everyone seems to agree she's good.)
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:06 AM
Nov 2014

If her appt. breaks another demographic barrier... so much the better.

 

bravenak

(34,648 posts)
55. So appointing only white men wins elections?
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:52 PM
Nov 2014

Are they the only ones who vote? Sounds like reverse affirmative action.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
8. So President Obama ...
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:11 AM
Nov 2014

gets criticized for NOT having diverse appointments AND it's bad optics when he does appoint women or "minorities", ignoring the fact that (for judgeships Forty-two per cent of his judgeships have gone to women (i.e., 52% have gone to men) and Thirty-six per cent of President Obama’s judges have been minorities (i.e., 64% have gone to "non-minorities&quot .

Further,

Charlie, who has an advanced degree in psychology, says that it's highly unlikely that all or even most of Obama's picks are the best person available ...


Does your Psychology advanced degreed friend Charlie (or you for that matter) recognize the (racial) double standard being applied here? President Obama appointments are not "the best person available" ... as if, the "best available person" standard has been a consideration/disqualifying point for other Presidential appointments, optics notwithstanding.

ETA: Okay, for the benefit of my DU stalkers, &quot I) always make things about race."

bullwinkle428

(20,629 posts)
10. Sorry, but a lot of the "white guy" appointees have been the sucky ones -
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:17 AM
Nov 2014

Timmeh Geithner, Larry Summers, Arne Duncan, Rahmbo...need I go on?

MrScorpio

(73,631 posts)
11. Wow.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:21 AM
Nov 2014

Frankly, if I were to say to your OP what I'm really thinking, this very post would be forcibly removed.

So, I'll just say that he's wrong and leave it at that.

JI7

(89,251 posts)
12. he isn't a staunch liberal, he is a racist who feels white men are being victimized
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:23 AM
Nov 2014

anytime some female or minority gets a job

JEFF9K

(1,935 posts)
36. There is a big difference ...
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:07 AM
Nov 2014

There is a big difference between "anytime," "some of the time," "most of the time," and "all of the time."

But Charlie's comments are about appearances and perceptions. Ignore them and lose elections.

JI7

(89,251 posts)
15. i bet he is one of those who thinks he isn't a racist because he might come across a black
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:25 AM
Nov 2014

person he likes and who he considers as being "one of the good ones"

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
16. Charlie sounds like a closet racist, or maybe just a
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:44 AM
Nov 2014

fucking racist.

He's also a liar if claims to be a staunch liberal. Tell Charlie to join is in the 21st century or get bent.

JEFF9K

(1,935 posts)
37. Charlie predicted this ...
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:11 AM
Nov 2014

Charlie predicted this kind of response when I told him I was going to post a thread. As a psychologist, he knows about the importance of perceptions, and guess what? WE LOST THE EFFING ELECTION!

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
47. Look, Charlie. I think you are wrong.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 01:48 PM
Nov 2014

I think you are trying to be a little too cute too. Just admit that you are Charlie and that you are uncomfortable with all those brown people and women in positions of power. We did not lose because of minority appointments. You are simply wrong and exposing your bias.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
63. did black women run in a lot of ballots? i saw an extraordinary number of white people lose elected
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 04:31 PM
Nov 2014

offices

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
17. White males, you've had your chance ...
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:45 AM
Nov 2014

move over and stop whining like babies.

Anyway, you've got Chuck Hagel. Get used to being tokenized. It's the 21st century, bitchez.

Retrograde

(10,137 posts)
19. Hasn't he noticed that white males are not the majority
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 02:21 AM
Nov 2014

in this country? Not that they ever were, for that matter. So what's a "disproportionate" number of appointees in a country that's 50% female, 20% non-Caucasian? Don't we get to be represented, or are high positions reserved for WASPs?

marmar

(77,081 posts)
33. Non hispanic whites are 61 percent of the population
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 10:58 AM
Nov 2014

So the "minority" population is almost 40 percent, per the 2012 Census update.


yardwork

(61,648 posts)
52. But more than 50% of those are females.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:44 PM
Nov 2014

The proportion of white males in government greatly exceeds their proportion of the population.

marmar

(77,081 posts)
60. absolutely
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 04:09 PM
Nov 2014

I was just pointing out that people of color comprise a lot more than 20 percent of the population

Tarheel_Dem

(31,234 posts)
20. Yeah! I'm finding that more & more with certain "staunch liberals". They'll never admit it.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 04:54 AM
Nov 2014

Post racial, my azz.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
21. She is qualified. The President gets to choose. And fuck your racist, sexist claptrap talk
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 04:56 AM
Nov 2014

about "optics".

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
23. another neighbor Charlie thread LOL
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 10:25 AM
Nov 2014

Does he know how to get on the intertubes? He needs an account so we can talk directly to the man!

JEFF9K

(1,935 posts)
30. I am unaware of any other ...
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 10:47 AM
Nov 2014

I am unaware of any other "neighbor Charlie" threads. But if they set off good discussions we may need more of them.

 

Ykcutnek

(1,305 posts)
40. He was once criticized for not having a diverse ENOUGH cabinet...
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:22 AM
Nov 2014
Why is President Obama’s new Cabinet overwhelmingly white and male? A recent group photo of Obama and his advisers in the White House published by The New York Times pinpointed what many have been noticing—a huge lack of racial and gender diversity. Is he shortchanging the millions of Blacks, Latinos and women who propelled his election win?

Public figures are weighing in with their dissatisfaction: Former Labor Secretary Elaine Chao said, “I think [Obama] can do better;” and Congressman Charlie Rangel said the lack of diversity on Obama’s team was “embarrassing as hell. … He’s had four years to work the bench, to work the second team, so that in the second term, these people should be just as experienced as any other American.


http://www.diversityinc.com/diversity-and-inclusion/obamas-cabinet-diversity-record-embarrassing-as-hell/

Spazito

(50,360 posts)
41. Gosh, given the OP and your responses...
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:36 AM
Nov 2014

you and your "neighbor Charlie" could be......twins. Your posts indicate you completely agree with "Charlie", interesting. Using "optics" in the context "Charlie" uses it is simply another dog whistle word to try and cloak his racism, not to mention the addition of sexism in this case, imo.

kydo

(2,679 posts)
43. Yep its optics. Problem solved. We can all go home now. Expect me thinks its the wrong optics that
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:37 AM
Nov 2014

cost elections. Obama and the Democratic Party need more diversity and of course maybe if Dem's appeared with Obama instead of running away the optics might have appealed to the Dem's that did not vote, No? Not mention running away from the good this Pres has done oh and all that stuff on the dem platform, oh like minimum wage, immigration, climate change, ext. Not standing up for what one stands for is bad optics too.

But Obama's pick for AG is a good solid pick. And Obama doesn't need to win any more elections, last I heard he can't run for Pres again. So please ask "Charlie" how exactly will the "bad optics" of hiring a qualified person hurt Obama in the next election?

 

ChisolmTrailDem

(9,463 posts)
44. Isn't it great how everyone seems to be focusing on Charlie (and his racism, or not) instead
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:48 AM
Nov 2014

of discussing what Charlie is pointing out, which is what old angry racist white guys see when they look at President Obama and his appointments?

Oh shit, I pointed out this is about what old angry white racist guys see and now I'm going to be charged with being a racist myself (and the fact that I have hispanic and black children I adore who call me PaPaw will not matter a whit) for daring to attempt to steer the focus where it belongs, not on Charlie but what Charlie is saying.

Ahhhh, good ole DU.


muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
46. You shouldn't pander to the misconceptions of old angry racist white guys
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 01:12 PM
Nov 2014

even if they're not voting Democratic as much as you'd like. There is no shortage of white men in Obama's appointments. We have pointed this out.

The thing is that Charlie's claim of 'optics' on behalf of other people is not convincing. We tend to assume that it is Charlie's own opinion, that he is trying to attribute to other people. That he thinks Joe Biden is a buffoon doesn't help his 'case'.

Control-Z

(15,682 posts)
49. Bad optics?
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:20 PM
Nov 2014

Seems the only ones who might find the optics bad are old white, likely racist, dudes. Granted, that other party has a few of those. But then there is everyone else.

I'm thrilled to see he chose a woman. Even without an advanced degree in psychology I can state with certainty there are no men of any color with her unique qualifications.

So who you going to worry about? Those old white men? Or all the rest of us who aren't (old white men)?

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
54. Yes, let's consider white men's feeling above all else.
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 03:50 PM
Nov 2014

Because apparently they are all so easily wounded.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
62. are you trying to tell us you are racist or your neighbour is a racist?
Thu Nov 13, 2014, 04:27 PM
Nov 2014

or that you condone racism for political expediency

i truly could not understand which of these messages you were trying to communicate

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