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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLoretta Lynch - Good choice, bad optics?
My neighbor, Charlie, who claims to be a staunch liberal, thinks that Loretta Lynch is a good choice for Attorney General except for something that has recently been referred to as optics. Here is his argument:
Replacing a black male attorney general with a black female attorney general won't win any points with the millions of white males who have been going against their own interests and voting Republican.
A strongly disproportionate number of Obama's appointments have been women, minorities, or both.
His Supreme Court appointments were a Jewish woman and an Hispanic woman.
His first Secretary of State was Hillary Clinton.
Secretaries of the Interior include Hispanic Ken Salazar and Sally Jewell.
Secretaries of Labor include Hilda Solis and Thomas Perez.
Secretaries of Health and Human Services include Kathleen Sibelius and Sylvia Mathews Burwell.
The most prominent non-Hispanic white male in the administration may be the somewhat buffoonish Joe Biden.
Charlie, who has an advanced degree in psychology, says that it's highly unlikely that all or even most of Obama's picks are the best person available and that ignoring optics is hurting the Democratic Party.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)He's not a racist or a sexist.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I betcha he has at least one "colored" neighbor and a Latina acquaintance (at his work).
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Cool story.
MH1
(17,600 posts)To be fair, I don't know him, and some people really are able to see others' perspectives without actually being that way themselves.
If that's the case though, I think he should just stop worrying about optics. We just lost the Senate and don't currently have a likely presidential candidate that is going to have broad appeal. I.e. the country is f*cked. May as well take this opportunity to appoint a black female to a post she's qualified for. Might be the last chance for awhile. We have much bigger problems than "optics" and I doubt they're going to make much difference for awhile. And I doubt any nimrod racist white man who is voting against his own interests just because he doesn't like "the Kenyan in the White House" is going to change his opinion much even if said Kenyan appoints a white guy to the job.
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)Not worrying about optics can mean not winning elections. Not winning elections can mean not being able to carry out your policies.
yardwork
(61,648 posts)... the Democrats wouldn't have lost?
Do you see how silly that sounds?
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Think about that Jeff
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)Charlie is combining appearances with reality. Both are important if you want to win elections.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I wonder if he realizes our party won't pull those people into the party if they already vote republican and feel that way about the 'optics' of a black female. And further more, most women vote Dem. So why appease republican men with OUR nominees? Ignore our base to get republican votes? So what happens when women don't come out because we are constantly appeasing republicans?
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)I will relay the message and see if Charlie is amused.
elleng
(130,964 posts)and referring to Joe Biden as buffoonish is
Joe Biden became an attorney in 1969, and was elected to the New Castle County council in 1970. Biden was first elected to the Senate in 1972 and became the sixth-youngest senator in U.S. history. He was re-elected to the Senate six times, and was the fourth most senior senator at the time of his resignation. Biden was a long-time member and former chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. His strong advocacy helped bring about U.S. military assistance and intervention during the Bosnian War. He opposed the Gulf War in 1991. He voted in favor of the Iraq War Resolution in 2002, but later proposed resolutions to alter U.S. strategy there. He has also served as chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, dealing with issues related to drug policy, crime prevention, and civil liberties, and led creation of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act and Violence Against Women Act. He chaired the Judiciary Committee during the contentious U.S. Supreme Court nominations of Robert Bork and Clarence Thomas.
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)He is also regarded by many as somewhat of a buffoon - not the kind of thing that wins elections.
elleng
(130,964 posts)'He was re-elected to the Senate six times.'
Too damn bad.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)isn't ignoring the "optics" and he complains about them. Liberal? HMMMMM.
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)Charlie is consistent in his beliefs on "optics." And optics isn't something that can be ignored. As a psychologist, Charlie says the message to white men is that the Democratic Party isn't for them.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]If you don't give yourself the same benefit of a doubt you'd give anyone else, you're cheating someone.[/center][/font][hr]
yardwork
(61,648 posts)I call b.s. on Charlie's "facts."
Smarmie Doofus
(14,498 posts)If her appt. breaks another demographic barrier... so much the better.
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Are they the only ones who vote? Sounds like reverse affirmative action.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)gets criticized for NOT having diverse appointments AND it's bad optics when he does appoint women or "minorities", ignoring the fact that (for judgeships Forty-two per cent of his judgeships have gone to women (i.e., 52% have gone to men) and Thirty-six per cent of President Obamas judges have been minorities (i.e., 64% have gone to "non-minorities" .
Further,
Does your Psychology advanced degreed friend Charlie (or you for that matter) recognize the (racial) double standard being applied here? President Obama appointments are not "the best person available" ... as if, the "best available person" standard has been a consideration/disqualifying point for other Presidential appointments, optics notwithstanding.
ETA: Okay, for the benefit of my DU stalkers, " I) always make things about race."
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)Timmeh Geithner, Larry Summers, Arne Duncan, Rahmbo...need I go on?
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)MrScorpio
(73,631 posts)Frankly, if I were to say to your OP what I'm really thinking, this very post would be forcibly removed.
So, I'll just say that he's wrong and leave it at that.
JI7
(89,251 posts)anytime some female or minority gets a job
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)There is a big difference between "anytime," "some of the time," "most of the time," and "all of the time."
But Charlie's comments are about appearances and perceptions. Ignore them and lose elections.
JI7
(89,251 posts)person he likes and who he considers as being "one of the good ones"
morningfog
(18,115 posts)fucking racist.
He's also a liar if claims to be a staunch liberal. Tell Charlie to join is in the 21st century or get bent.
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)Charlie predicted this kind of response when I told him I was going to post a thread. As a psychologist, he knows about the importance of perceptions, and guess what? WE LOST THE EFFING ELECTION!
morningfog
(18,115 posts)I think you are trying to be a little too cute too. Just admit that you are Charlie and that you are uncomfortable with all those brown people and women in positions of power. We did not lose because of minority appointments. You are simply wrong and exposing your bias.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)offices
frazzled
(18,402 posts)move over and stop whining like babies.
Anyway, you've got Chuck Hagel. Get used to being tokenized. It's the 21st century, bitchez.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)To the Republican Party at least this election.
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)There are plenty of non-Hispanic white men here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_of_the_United_States
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Retrograde
(10,137 posts)in this country? Not that they ever were, for that matter. So what's a "disproportionate" number of appointees in a country that's 50% female, 20% non-Caucasian? Don't we get to be represented, or are high positions reserved for WASPs?
marmar
(77,081 posts)So the "minority" population is almost 40 percent, per the 2012 Census update.
yardwork
(61,648 posts)The proportion of white males in government greatly exceeds their proportion of the population.
marmar
(77,081 posts)I was just pointing out that people of color comprise a lot more than 20 percent of the population
Tarheel_Dem
(31,234 posts)Post racial, my azz.
cali
(114,904 posts)about "optics".
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Does he know how to get on the intertubes? He needs an account so we can talk directly to the man!
JEFF9K
(1,935 posts)I am unaware of any other "neighbor Charlie" threads. But if they set off good discussions we may need more of them.
Orrex
(63,215 posts)Wait. What?
tenderfoot
(8,437 posts)yardwork
(61,648 posts)Ykcutnek
(1,305 posts)Public figures are weighing in with their dissatisfaction: Former Labor Secretary Elaine Chao said, I think [Obama] can do better; and Congressman Charlie Rangel said the lack of diversity on Obamas team was embarrassing as hell. Hes had four years to work the bench, to work the second team, so that in the second term, these people should be just as experienced as any other American.
http://www.diversityinc.com/diversity-and-inclusion/obamas-cabinet-diversity-record-embarrassing-as-hell/
Spazito
(50,360 posts)you and your "neighbor Charlie" could be......twins. Your posts indicate you completely agree with "Charlie", interesting. Using "optics" in the context "Charlie" uses it is simply another dog whistle word to try and cloak his racism, not to mention the addition of sexism in this case, imo.
kydo
(2,679 posts)cost elections. Obama and the Democratic Party need more diversity and of course maybe if Dem's appeared with Obama instead of running away the optics might have appealed to the Dem's that did not vote, No? Not mention running away from the good this Pres has done oh and all that stuff on the dem platform, oh like minimum wage, immigration, climate change, ext. Not standing up for what one stands for is bad optics too.
But Obama's pick for AG is a good solid pick. And Obama doesn't need to win any more elections, last I heard he can't run for Pres again. So please ask "Charlie" how exactly will the "bad optics" of hiring a qualified person hurt Obama in the next election?
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)of discussing what Charlie is pointing out, which is what old angry racist white guys see when they look at President Obama and his appointments?
Oh shit, I pointed out this is about what old angry white racist guys see and now I'm going to be charged with being a racist myself (and the fact that I have hispanic and black children I adore who call me PaPaw will not matter a whit) for daring to attempt to steer the focus where it belongs, not on Charlie but what Charlie is saying.
Ahhhh, good ole DU.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,321 posts)even if they're not voting Democratic as much as you'd like. There is no shortage of white men in Obama's appointments. We have pointed this out.
The thing is that Charlie's claim of 'optics' on behalf of other people is not convincing. We tend to assume that it is Charlie's own opinion, that he is trying to attribute to other people. That he thinks Joe Biden is a buffoon doesn't help his 'case'.
Control-Z
(15,682 posts)Seems the only ones who might find the optics bad are old white, likely racist, dudes. Granted, that other party has a few of those. But then there is everyone else.
I'm thrilled to see he chose a woman. Even without an advanced degree in psychology I can state with certainty there are no men of any color with her unique qualifications.
So who you going to worry about? Those old white men? Or all the rest of us who aren't (old white men)?
alarimer
(16,245 posts)Because apparently they are all so easily wounded.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Shoulda just used SWIM.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)This one is barely treading water.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)or that you condone racism for political expediency
i truly could not understand which of these messages you were trying to communicate