Please tell me

[cwydro]

Last edited Tue Nov 25, 2014, 03:24 AM - Edit history (2)

how burning black owned businesses is helping ?

[Hoyt]

1. It's not, and it is not widespread either.

[Travelman]

3. "Not widespread?"

You might want to check around. There are a lot of businesses on fire in Ferguson tonight. Lots of people will not have a job to go to in the morning.

[Hoyt]

5. Three businesses. Not enough for me to condemn a bunch of people legitimately protesting.

[GGJohn]

11. You better recount, it's at least 8 businesses.

And arson of just one business is one too many.
Hey Mr. Hoyt, why don't you go down to Ferguson and tell the owners of those burned businesses that bullshit?

[Hoyt]

15. Like I said, I support the vast majority of peaceful protesters who have legitimate issues.

I'm not going to criticize them for what is a small group destroying property, that might well be outside aggitators.

[GGJohn]

17. And I didn't criticize them either so your earlier comment to me was uncalled for.

[Hoyt]

18. I disagree.

[GGJohn]

19. I disagree with you disagreement.

[Jenoch]

26. Do you have any problem with the burning of

autos and buildings?

[Hoyt]

28. Definitely do. But I'm not going to use that to denigrate the 100s more peaceful, legitimate

protesters. How about you?

Heck, for all I know some of fires and damage were by right wing aggitators to garner support from folks, well like you.

[Jenoch]

32. Huh?

Where in the world do you get the idea that I support the fires that are burning in Missouri?

[Hoyt]

33. You need to read what I posted again, perhaps after some sleep.

[Jenoch]

36. Your last sentence says exactly what it appears to say.

What the hell is the matter with you?

[GGJohn]

37. You're not fooling anyone,

we know exactly what you said and what you mean, you're very transparent.

[Hoyt]

40. What I meant GG is clear -- you and that poster are criticizing legitimate protesters

under the guise of the fires and property damage. You aren't fooling anyone either.

[GGJohn]

43. Your lying, I did not in any way criticize the legitimate protesters.

You're not fooling anyone here.

[Cha]

51. You got Alerted on too.. 7-0 LEAVE!

Definitely do. But I'm not going to use that to denigrate the 100s more peaceful, legitimate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5866113

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

No comments added by alerter

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Nov 25, 2014, 02:33 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Leave the post alone, if the alerter has no backbone, then he/she is not a fun person. Shit, the complaints are too many from these whiners!

Am No. 7! These people are three year olds, so sensitive, holy moly!

You lost complainer, try something different next time, like who stole your password!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025866207

[Hoyt]

55. Thanks, Cha. It happens a bunch. Just wish none of this had happened and

we were debating 2016, or something.

[Cha]

57. I hear ya, Hoyt

Michael Brown

[cwydro]

20. Really?

One would be bad enough.

What if it was your business?

[Tsiyu]

68. We don't have enough facts right now to make clear judgment calls

you should be patient

wait for facts

But i lurve when people say what I just wrote and "meh" about the loss of a human life.

When it's the loss of property, OMG!!!!!!

Too predictable.....

[GGJohn]

4. Widespread enough.

Several businesses have now been burned down.

[Hoyt]

6. So what do you want to do GG, strap on your friggin gunz and go shoot

a bunch of harmless protesters with legitimate issues? Will that make you feel better?

[GGJohn]

9. What the fuck is your problem?

No, I want to stay home and tend to my animals.
GFY.

[Hoyt]

10. That's exactly what I was about to say to you.

[GGJohn]

13. Where the fuck did you get the idea that I wanted to leave by home, go down to Ferguson

and shoot anyone? In your feverish mind?

[kelly1mm]

22. You got alerted. Thankfully, the jury saw who was being an ass here ..... 2-5 to leave it.

On Tue Nov 25, 2014, 01:48 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

What the fuck is your problem?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5865979

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

No comments added by alerter

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Nov 25, 2014, 01:56 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Though the language is unfortunate, the commenter was pushed by the previous commenter.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: not enough motivation to leave a comment = no hide. freaking LAZY.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Personal attack at the end with "GFY" (go f yourself)

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[GGJohn]

24. Thank you for the results.

His comment was totally uncalled for and I'm glad the jury saw who was in the wrong here.

[cwydro]

64. Yep. nt

[Travelman]

2. Because #justice. Or something.

Dumber than dirt. Immigrants losing whole businesses. Black people who were small business owners this afternoon have nothing left tonight. Dozens, scores of people employed by these businesses need not set the alarm for in the morning because there's no point in going to work at an ash pile.

What a great way to protest injustice!

[Scootaloo]

7. Please tell me how characterizing nationwide protests by a few assholes helps anything?

[cwydro]

8. How is pointing out arson

and asking why is a bad thing?

Violent people love violence. Black or white. It is just stupid.

I've been through a fire. This is wrong.

[Scootaloo]

14. But that's not what you're doing

Rather you are characterizing the protests at large, defining them by some asshole's act of destruction. You focus on "black-owned businesses," to play off the canard of "self-destructive blacks."

Save your glennbeckian "just asking questions" defense for whatever other sites you haunt.

[Hoyt]

16. Exactly!

[cwydro]

21. I don't have any other sites "I haunt"

I want to know how burning down your own neighborhood helps anything.

It doesn't help anything, and you know it.

Call me names all you want.

[Scootaloo]

25. I didn't call you anything

And people reading your post know quite clearly what you're doing.

[cwydro]

66. You called me glennbeckian

I hate that idiot.

Yes, you called me a name.

Man up and and admit it.

[Scootaloo]

70. No, i called your argument glennbeckian

And that's exactly what it is. "I'm just asking questions!"

Also, when one party of an argument implores the other to "admit it," it's almost always because they have no way of furthering their own position.

[Art_from_Ark]

39. How do you know "they" are burning "their own neighborhood"?

Do you know who started the fires? And if so, do you know where they live?

[GGJohn]

41. I don't believe it's anyone who lives in Ferguson, I belive it's outside agitators who don't

give a fuck about the people who live there, work at those businesses and shop at those businesses.

[cwydro]

29. No.

You are putting that out.

I asked how this violence is helping anything.

It is not.

[Scootaloo]

31. While ignoring all the lack of violence

I'm watching streams here chief. New York, St. Louis, Seattle, Oakland. Thousands and thousands of people across the nation, not being violent.

You're ignoring that to characterize the protests by the acts of some assholes. making these individuals the centerpiece of the nationwide action, and playing on the mythology of the "self-destructive negro" to make your argument.

Tell me, does firing tear gas at the media and raiding safe haven churches help anything? Does setting your own cruiser on dire with a poorly-launched gas grenade then letting it burn while the live ammo inside goes off into the crowd around help anything? Does grabbing a man who's backing away from the line, throwing him to the ground and dragging him behind the line after jamming a baton into his crotch help anything?

does gunning down a 17 year old black person and leaving him in the street for four hours help anything?

You go have fun clucking your tongue.

[Hoyt]

34. +1. Again

[cwydro]

45. All I asked

is how burning small businesses helps?

Get back to me when you have an answer.

[Scootaloo]

46. Why are you asking us?

Do you expect an answer? No, it's shit-stirring and it's completely recognizable.

[blkmusclmachine]

12. Ask the cops.

[cwydro]

23. Oh?

They are burning down small businesses?

Dang, thanks for the info. I did not know that. Hmmm.

[Blue_Tires]

27. Fascinating that this is what you chose to start a new thread on

instead of talking about the case itself...

Maybe you need to ponder how those white kids in Morgantown thought destroying things and burning shit would help their football team, or their community at large? Then maybe you can ask what in fuck's name goes through the mind of victorious Giants and Lakers fans who tear up a small chunk of their city...

Come back when you find out the answers to those...

[cwydro]

30. You are one of my favorite posters mr blue

but I'm not seeing the parallel you've referenced.

I hate all violence. Whites are just as bad.
Maybe worse. But come on...

I only asked one question: how is this helping?

[GGJohn]

35. It's not.

The few that are committing these violent acts are violating the wishes of the Brown family.
I see now that a line of cars at a dealership (I think that's what it is) is now on fire.

[cwydro]

38. It's insane.

I knew this would happen, but I actually hoped it would not.

[maced666]

42. At least looting the beer stores gets ya smashed!

[cwydro]

44. Ha.

Exactly.

Looting liquor stores shows your belief in civil rights.

[ecstatic]

47. ask Ferguson PD. They failed to intervene and let the buildings

burn to the ground. And didn't they catch a suspect - a white guy wearing tea party attire?

[cwydro]

53. Yeah. No doubt

there are white guys running around setting fires all over the place.

Seriously, do you believe that?

[markpkessinger]

48. Riots are not, first and foremost, attempts to be "helpful" . . .

. . . Riots like these are expressions of pent up frustration and rage, undertaken by people who have lost all faith in any of the normal, purportedly "helpful" channels or processes. They do not function according to carefully calculated strategies of what is likely or not likely to help a given cause. They are expressions of raw emotion on the part of people who are desperate, and who feel that their grievances have not been heard . . . by design. Instead of asking whether the actions of the rioters is 'helpful,' maybe a better question to ask is, "Is their rage justified." I believe it is.

[GGJohn]

49. Is the rage justified?

Yeah, it is, but it's never justified looting, burning down businesses that had nothing to do with the murder of Michael Brown.

[markpkessinger]

52. Perhaps not, but . . .

As I said, when it get to the point that people feel they must riot in order to be heard, then they are already way past a point where they see any value in recognizing a socuety's norms for what is considered to be "justified." This is a community that feels it has been denied justice, not just in the case of Michael Brown, but in case after case across this country over many, many years. Thus for anyone to preach to this community about behaving in a manner that is "justified" is clueless, as well as being smug and condescending in the extreme.

[branford]

61. Perhaps?

There are many thousands of people feeling anger and sadness, yet the vast, vast majority somehow manage not burn, pillage. loot, riot and otherwise threaten others and destroy property of people that have absolutely nothing to do with Michael Brown, Darren Wilson or a any part of the criminal Justice system. Many of the business and properties even belong to or employ minorities (and others) supportive of the Brown family.

I have absolutely no sympathy for these violent individuals who probably need no reason at all for the actions. They are not protesting Darren Wilson, they are acting out like disturbed school children. In fact, I hope they are caught and face the full force and fury of the law. I feel this way primarily because I support the peaceful protesters whose reputation and good cause are being hijacked and harmed immeasurably by these malcontents, and certainly not due to any support for the Ferguson police.

The Brown family did not want violence and destruction, the bilk of peaceful protesters have made clear their objections and have been shown trying to stop the illegality, and therefore totally I fail to see why some posters here choose to ignore, or worse excuse or rationalize, the actions of these criminals.

How will burning a Walgreens or looting a local hair salon in a minority community help the Brown family or in any way begin to improve the criminal justice system? In may, however, demonstrate to people nationwide that the grand jury may have been right after all, and that Michael Brown was possibly more like the arsonists than the peace men and women who risk being drowned out by the destruction. Is that the message that some want people to hear?

[cwydro]

50. But does the rage help?

I don't think so.

[markpkessinger]

54. Rage is an emotion . . .

. . . and in most cases is experienced, rather than chosen.

[cwydro]

58. I would never loot

steal, burn, or hurt anyone in my own neighborhood.

I would not loot or burn or steal from any effing 1 percenter either.

No matter how much I hate them. And I do.

But seriously... Burning down where you live?

Wrong. On every level.

[markpkessinger]

59. I'm not sayhing it's right . . .

. . . but rather that for the folks involved in these riots, categories of "right" and "wrong" seem to be little more than cruel illusions.

[branford]

62. Then they should not be on the streets.

If you cannot discern that it is wrong to set fires to other peoples property or loot and steal, no less threaten or harm others, all within a relatively poor and minority neighborhood, you belong in an institution for the mentally ill or prison.

All that they are accomplishing in hurting the good cause of the peaceful protesters for their own self-aggrandizement and base personal satisfaction.

[Recursion]

56. People riot when football teams lose (or win, for that matter)

A person is smart. People are idiots.

[cwydro]

60. I think you win the thread.

[markpkessinger]

63. Are you seriously comparing the actions . . .

. . . of a bunch of hooligans following a football game to the actions of protesters in Ferguson? Are you really trivializing the outrage in Ferguson by making no distinction between these demonstrations and a bunch of drunk, out of control football fans?

[Recursion]

65. I have no reason to believe the protesters are involved in any mayhem going on

Do you have any evidence they are?

[cwydro]

67. Hooligans (what a funny word)

are the same no matter the cause. A wrong verdict, a lost football game....

Wah. I didn't get my way so I will go burn down someone's business.

Again. How does this help?

I wonder what Martin would say.

[AngryOldDem]

69. It doesn't help.

But that said, I think the majority of those who were looting couldn't care less about Michael Brown, or his family, or justice.

Opportunists.

[Rex]

71. Please tell me how murdering a black child in cold blood is helping?

Nice try.

[Texasgal]

72. It's not and never will help.

Ever.