What is NOT particularly helpful with regard to Ferguson
In another thread, the question was asked, how is burning of black owned businesses helpful. It probably isn;t, but that isn't really the point of rioting anyway -- more on that in a moment. But if there is one thing that can definitely be said to be unhelpful with respect to Ferguson, I believe it is this: the sympathy of white liberals with the folks of Ferguson that comes couched in smug, glib moralizing about the indefensibility of rioting.
Riots of the type unfolding in Ferguson are not, first and foremost, attempts to be 'helpful. Riots like these are expressions of pent up frustration and rage, undertaken by people who have lost all faith in any of the normal, purportedly "helpful" channels or processes. They do not function according to carefully calculated strategies of what is likely or not likely to help a given cause. They are expressions of raw emotion on the part of people who are desperate, and who feel that their grievances have not been heard . . . by design. Instead of asking whether the actions of the rioters is 'helpful,' maybe a better question to ask is, "Is their rage justified." I believe it is.
Some will argue that while the rage in Ferguson may be justified, violence and looting never are. Well, perhaps, but when it gets to the point that people feel they must riot in order to be heard, then they are already way past a point where they see any value in recognizing a society's norms for what is considered to be "justified." This is a community that feels it has been denied justice, not just in the case of Michael Brown, but in case after case across this country over many, many years. Thus for anyone to preach to this community about behaving in a manner that is "justified" is clueless, as well as being smug and condescending in the extreme. This is not to suggest that rioting is 'right,' but rather that for the folks involved in these riots, categories of "right" and "wrong" seem to be little more than cruel illusions, rendering these terms largely irrelevant and useless in engaging the issues in any kind of constructive way.
What I believe the people of Ferguson need right now is a lot less sympathy, and a lot more empathy. Try to imagine the depth of the rage you would feel it were your children, or your community's children, whom society had decided could be summarily executed by police, their killers facing virtually no accountability whatsoever. How many times would it have to happen before you were overtaken by cynicism towards terms like "justice" and "the rule of law."
A friend of mine tonight put it like this:
Is the violence and chaos upsetting, regrettable, and unfortunate? Certainly. Is it occurring because nobody's taken the time to calmly and rationally explain to the rioters why rioting is bad? Fuck you."
Indeed.
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I tried to put into words what you've expressed here, but I wasn't very successful.
Thanks for your efforts. I'm going to show your post to this person. Maybe it will help. 
point to the chaos of group dynamics. Riots are particularly chaotic, and the mindset of the group is often incomprehensible. That being said, put one or a few "looters" in the mix, and the outcome is that people in the comfort of their own homes see ONLY the "looting and burning." One must ask, "who does this benefit?" Furthermore, who has a vested interest in promoting the "looting and burning" meme?
That being said, I suspect that reports of looting and violence are questionable, both as to their veracity AND as to WHO is doing the "looting and burning."
"Stealing stuff" should not be the issue (and virtually everyone will acknowledge stealing is "wrong"
. However, since radical income inequity is the slavery du jour, it's difficult for me to vilify the people whose anger and resentment has resulted in these riots and the incidences of "looting and burning" that are being used by the M$M to deflect attention from the terrible injustice of the Grand Jury outcome.
Last night, I saw an instance of this ("the sympathy of white liberals with the folks of Ferguson that comes couched in smug, glib moralizing" that really bothered me.
The orders and agreement from the state NAACP came down before the decision was announced. We are having a march tonight. We avoided being out with demonstrators last night because the standing primary goal right now is to keep people safe. And, that means avoiding confrontations if possible. So, they got their permits and insurance for a march. It is well organized and there will be marshals.
After the verdict was announced some people wanted to catch up with other demonstrators. The people who were leading the group discussion said that she thought it best to avoid it. We knew that people were going to be angry and that they didn't have a plan, so it seemed like it could be dangerous.
During this discussion, a white man spoke up and very condescendingly pointed out the first amendment. Keep in mind the people leading this discussion heard all about it from their elders who were there.
A few white people, and most of the African Americans in the crowd strongly agreed that they plan for tonight and avoiding the potential powder keg was the best decision. A few people believed that they could make sure it was peaceful.
One woman took great pains trying to explain the disparate vulnerability in that situation to no avail. The discussion didn't escalate to in-group anger, but there was frustration.
The perspective that I shared with the group leaders was an understanding of why people riot. Why it is easy for it to escalate and adherence to the commitment to be safe and help each other stay safe if need be.
has gotten or even tried to root out the systemic and institutionalized oppression of minorities for decades. There have been band-aid fixes which SCOTUS has since ripped off still bleeding wounds. Get over your Bolshevic BS and get real with the racism of amerikkka.
I.E., that socialism was always more openly hostile to racism and other prejudices, than capitalism on the whole. You don't HAVE to listen to *me*, per se, but I'd encourage you to try to open your mind, even if it has to be with someone else. Just my two cents. 
but I know what I discussed with those Africans while studying at Boston University. It wasn't all liberation milk and cookies. Yes I know of the support that the USSR provided to different liberation movements around the world, I don't deny that, but racism was alive and well in Russia(old USSR) as it was here. Just what I got from my conversations with the different Africans I met at different parties and functions in the early 70's. But yes I respect your intelligence and forthrightness. Thank you for any help you might afford to my geopolitical blind spots. I don't know it all, I just know what racism looks and smells like and there is plenty to be found in the last day or so. Here and elsewhere.
Last edited Tue Nov 25, 2014, 10:41 PM - Edit history (1)
overthrow capitalism, but riots that serve as the launching pad for organized armed struggle may just do it. The Black Panther Party of the 1960s (which J. Edgar Hoover called the "most serious national security threat the U.S. faced" did not grow out of a vacuum of vapid intellectualizing but out of the experiences of urban revolutionaries fired in the kiln of Watts, Detroit and Newark.
Thoughtful response though.
Right back atcha!
well put.
But to be honest, whatever violence that HAS occurred, may be understandable, but it is NOT truly justifiable, even if some people may truly want to believe otherwise. Not only is it not at all helpful to engaging in constructive dialogue, but it also plays right into the hands of the RW, including the very Teabaggers many of us despise. And we can't afford that right now, not in the straits we're ALL in. 
Response to markpkessinger (Original post)
There is no social contract...