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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDid Darren Wilson call for backup?
There is so much that I am not understanding. I plan on going over the entire evidence that is available in this case as time allows. I have to work today
If there was an altercation in the car and Michael Brown ran away after having been shot by Wilson (as evidenced by the drops of blood)...was there a call for backup that Darren Wilson made to dispatch?
It seems to me that if you were in fear for your life and had just shot someone and they were running away...you would call for backup. Does anyone know if he did?
My understanding is there were two shots in or around the patrol car, why did he need to shoot 10 more times at an unarmed person? That seems like excessive force to me.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Before any physical altercation had occurred.
From listing to dispatch tapes it sounds like he called for backup as soon as he realized they might be the robbery suspects.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)stopped Brown? Was the Chief lying?
SunsetDreams
(8,571 posts)I had heard that as well, he did not yet know about the robbery when he stopped him. He thought they were jaywalking and had asked them to move to the sidewalk. (They were walking down the middle of the street)
Recursion
(56,582 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)of Brown? I would think the Chief would want to connect that incident to the killing in order to 'explain' why they were stopped in the first place. But instead he stated that Wilson had not received that information at the time he stopped Brown.
Has he retracted that statement?
Airc, his statement said that Wilson did not have that information at the INITIAL contact he had with Brown.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)AFAIK that's what the testimony and dispatch logs more or less agreed with.
1. Initial contact about walking in the street
2. Dispatch call
3. Call for backup
4. Shooting in the car
5. Shooting outside the car
I don't know that there's any serious challenge to that order of things?
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)The cops also released the video from the store showing Brown in some kind of altercation, minor it appeared to me. Asked if THAT was the reason why Brown was stopped, the Chief admitted that it was not.
Ferguson Chief Officer Didn't Stop Brown as Robbery Suspect
Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson -- hours after documents came out labeling the 18-year-old Brown as the "primary suspect" in the store theft -- told reporters the "robbery does not relate to the initial contact between the officer and Michael Brown."
So why did Ferguson police opt to release surveillance video of the convenience-store incident Friday -- the same day they named, six days after the shooting, the white police officer who fatally shot the African-American teenager -- if the two situations aren't related?
Why didn't the store owner report a robbery? And has there been an investigation into that incident? I saw cigars being picked up off the floor and returned to the clerk before Brown left the store. It didn't look like a robbery from the video I saw, more like an argument over the purchase.
So why are the talking heads on TV claiming that Wilson did stop Brown because of the 'robbery'? Almost all of them are claiming that was the reason Wilson stopped him in the first place.
But we are talking about the MSM I suppose.
Taitertots
(7,745 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)specific as to why you think the Ferguson PC would want to cause damage to Wilson and defend Brown?
My recollection of him was he was defending Wilson, and actually tried to harm Brown by releasing video in order to distract from the release of Wilson's name.
But you appear to know something I don't know, so could you explain it please?
Taitertots
(7,745 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)reports of the GJ results. The Chief says, no, Wilson didn't know about that in his initial contact with Brown. How would he be helping Brown by saying that?
Actually, he was hoping no one would ask him I suppose, if the video he decided to release that day to make Brown look bad, was the reason why Wilson stopped Brown. But they did ask, and he said 'no, that was not the reason'. But now we are told it WAS the reason.
So which is true, I imagine, which was my point, that the Chief was telling the truth and that the store incident was not known to Wilson when he first stopped Brown.
SunsetDreams
(8,571 posts)after he supposedly HAD to shoot someone for the altercation? Would there not be another call?
Travelman
(708 posts)According to [url=http://www.stltoday.com/news/multimedia/special/darren-wilson-s-radio-calls-show-fatal-encounter-was-brief/html_79c17aed-0dbe-514d-ba32-bad908056790.html]this article[/url], he did in fact call for an ambulance:
~ snip ~
Wilson has told authorities that he called, Shots fired, send all cars, on his radio, but during the struggle his radio had been jarred and the channel changed.
The Post-Dispatch reviewed radio calls made during that period on all St. Louis County police channels, the fire channel used by Ferguson and other channels publicly archived online and could not locate the call. At least one channel on the Ferguson police radio is receive-only, meaning that the call may not have been broadcast.
After the call, Wilson pursued Brown on foot.
According to sources, Wilson has said that Brown turned and charged, and that Wilson then fired once, paused when Brown appeared to flinch and fired again, multiple times. He said he then radioed for an ambulance.
~ snip ~
Forty-one seconds after Wilsons call, unit 25 reported that he was about to arrive at Wilsons location, saying he was going out on Canfield and accompanied by the sound of his racing engine.
Forty-eight seconds later, another officer had arrived or was about to, announcing, 22s out.
samsingh
(17,599 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)And I just did a reasonable search to avoid asking. Since you have been listening to the dispatch tapes, please let me know where I can find them.
herding cats
(19,565 posts)At 11:53 a.m., a dispatcher reported a stealing in progress at the Ferguson Market. The 911 operator was still talking to the caller in the background. In a second broadcast, 19 seconds later, the dispatcher says the suspect is a black male in a white T-shirt running toward QuikTrip, and had stolen a box of Swisher cigars.
About four minutes later, theres more detail: the suspect is wearing a red Cardinals hat, a white T-shirt, yellow socks and khaki shorts, and is accompanied by another man.
At noon, Wilson reports that hes back in service from the sick-baby call. He then asks the officers searching for the thieves units 25 and 22 if they need him. Seven seconds later, an unidentified officer broadcasts that the suspects had disappeared.
At 12:02 p.m., Wilson says, 21. Put me on Canfield with two. And send me another car. His call triggered at least two officers to head his way, including one who said he was close to Wilson.
Sources have told the Post-Dispatch that Wilson has told authorities that before the radio call he had stopped to tell Brown and his friend, Dorian Johnson, 22, to quit walking down the middle of the street. They kept walking, and he then realized that Brown matched the description of the suspect in the stealing call.
Wilson then asked dispatch for backup and backed up his SUV next to Brown and Johnson.
Wilson said Brown attacked him, sources said, and that they struggled over the officers gun before Wilson was able to fire twice, hitting Brown once. Brown ran away.
Wilson has told authorities that he called, Shots fired, send all cars, on his radio, but during the struggle his radio had been jarred and the channel changed.
The Post-Dispatch reviewed radio calls made during that period on all St. Louis County police channels, the fire channel used by Ferguson and other channels publicly archived online and could not locate the call. At least one channel on the Ferguson police radio is receive-only, meaning that the call may not have been broadcast.
After the call, Wilson pursued Brown on foot.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/multimedia/special/darren-wilson-s-radio-calls-show-fatal-encounter-was-brief/html_79c17aed-0dbe-514d-ba32-bad908056790.html
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Thanks, though.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Where he says "Put me out on Canfield with two and send me another car" is the relevant portion.
fishwax
(29,149 posts)The report of the robbery in progress begins at Track 349. Wilson is officer Frank 21.
Here is Wilson's interview from the day following: http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1370766-interview-po-darren-wilson.html
In this interview he says he heard a radio call for a robbery in progress with a black male wearing a black (note: he says black shirt, the report said white shirt) shirt, but he doesn't connect the two people he's talking to with the robbery until after the confrontation starts.
On Edit: I responded without reading the other subthread, but I see now you were hoping for actual audio. Audio would be nice.
Boudica the Lyoness
(2,899 posts)fishwax
(29,149 posts)They were walking past his car and said "Fuck what you have to say" (page 4-5):
And then after that I put the vehicle in reverse, backed up about ten feet to 'em. a, attempted to open my door. Prior to backing up I did call out on the radio. I said "Frank 21. out with two. send me another car."
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Backup showed up about 90 seconds later.
SunsetDreams
(8,571 posts)IMO there should still be another call for backup after he supposedly HAD to shoot someone for an altercation that happened in and around the car. Michael Brown was running away...it seems he had time to make an additional call.
pkdu
(3,977 posts)A fucking lie.
TBF
(32,064 posts)stay in the car and wait for back-up. He got out and then he was afraid for his life. Like Zimmerman. And like Zimmerman he figured he had a gun so he would shoot. And like Zimmerman he now walks free.
This is how it works.
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)TBF
(32,064 posts)In or even near the car? If this were truly a case of self-defense and he was really "assaulted" in the car then that is where the body would be. Not out lying in the street for 4.5 hours.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Perhaps it was, maybe one of the jurors asked. But from what I have read so far, there was no prosecutor present in that room. A great Defense attorney, for Wilson though.
Travelman
(708 posts)Kathi Alizadeh and Sheila Whirley.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Either they are the most incompetent prosecutors ever since we know that you can get an indictment for a ham sandwich from the average GJ, OR they were defending Wilson.
I'm sure they are very upset that the could not convince this particular GJ to indict their suspect and will be looking for other alternatives, like just prosecuting him without the GJ indictment, or requesting a Federal Indictment, no?
Have they made any statements as to why they failed so spectacularly to get an indictment?
Travelman
(708 posts)I don't really get why no one can manage to accept that. I mean, I understand that people are in denial, but at some point people need to turn loose of their emotionalism and look at the actual evidence.
These people spent a lot of time looking at all of this. A lot of time that they didn't really have to: remember, they were scheduled to end their term back in September. If they didn't give a damn about any of this, they could have simply picked a charge and given out an indictment and gone home, passing the buck off to a trial jury. But they didn't do that. People probably need to be asking themselves why that is the case.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Wilson eg? I have some questions I would like to have seen asked of him.
GJs generally indict suspects. They will 'indict a ham sandwich'.
Why are people not accepting this sham? Because it was clear from the beginning that it was never intended to get an indictment of Wilson, it was intended to indict Brown. In that regard, it was a success for the 'prosecutor'.
So he got his indictment of Brown but Brown is dead so there cannot be a trial for him, he didn't get to give any testimony.
I don't get why some people are only too willing to accept an indictment of a dead teenager from a GJ that was, supposedly anyhow, called to indict the person who killed him. Seems to me the prosecutor did not want an indictment of the suspect, which is extremely odd, don't you think?
Travelman
(708 posts)All of this was covered last night. Something like seventy hours of testimony.
I don't know if any of the grand jurors asked Wilson any questions (I haven't gone through all of the evidence yet), but the fact that he testified for four hours seems a strong indicator that they did indeed ask him a lot of questions.
You can see it all for yourself here, here, here, and here.
People like to assume that a grand jury indictment is just some automatic thing, some sort of formality. That is not necessarily the case; if it were, then we would have dispensed with grand juries a long time ago.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)prosecutor, though not intended to be, and for the most part, Prosecutors DO get indictments from GJs. In fact, so much so it has been quite controversial for a long time now.
So McCullough FAILED as a prosecutor is what you are saying. He must be very upset. Prosecutors who fail to get indictments from GJs generally are upset.
So, what will he do as he must have felt he had a case against the suspect, Wilson I mean? Will he pursue it in some other way?
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)so Wilson was afraid, I guess, of being tackled by this "demonic" young man who was charging him like a bull. Demonic looking brown men are very scary.
TBF
(32,064 posts)Demons eat skittles. Everyone knows that.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Almost all perfectly justifiable shooting by police not only to the police have no injuries but they aren't even in touching distance. Why does every seem to think that he needs to have injuries. And he did though we always knew they were minor. Since when does a cop have to be beaten first before they can justifiably shoot someone???
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Unfortunately, the GJ did everything they could to help him out, and attack much more credible witnesses.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)A cop DOESN'T have to be beaten. All he has to do is not harass someone who he says, was a 'hulk' and looked like a 'demon' to him. If the wanted the teenager to walk on the sidewalk, all he had to do was call out 'hey, guys, could you walk on the sidewalk please'?
Btw, why was Wilson fired from his last precinct? We never learned why. That entire PD was fired. He was not rehired when they reviewed the firings. So he went to Ferguson. What is his background, I think since we get all the little details about these Black Teenagers' behavior, we should know why Wilson and his entire Dept were fired before he landed his job in Ferguson.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)This to me is a key question.
Brown is outside the car. Wilson is inside the car. The gun is in a police issued holster, on Wilson's right hip.
The holster is designed to make it nearly impossible for some one other then the person wearing that holster to remove the gun.
Brown is outside the car.
Wilson is inside the car.
There is no way Brown can get the gun out of Wilson's holster.
Even if Brown is hitting you ... you move the car. You don't need to speed away, just put the car in gear, and roll some, forward or backward.
Why make the gun easier to reach by taking it out. Makes no sense.
Unless Wilson had the gun out already.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)"Wilson had the gun out already."
Yup. He backed up hard on them with his gun out, and was going to teach this wise-ass a lesson, and then his gun accidentally discharged when he had Brown at the window and then everything went sideways.
This was a first degree murder.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)... make them get on the ground, face down for disrespecting him. That's why the gun is out.
What happens next, I'm not sure ...
... the gun goes off accidentally when Wilson throws the door open and it hits Brown and bounces back at him.
... Brown sees the gun, thinks Wilson is about to shot him, so he tries to take the gun from him.
I haven't had a chance to read the transcripts ... but I think this is important.
logosoco
(3,208 posts)Also, saving us from having to read through to find it, Mr. Scorpio had a post that mentions this part. (I am so sorry I forgot the name of the post, it was very good!). Other parts that I read he talked about how he remembered thinking of using other items but then decided on his gun.
And you're right, it didn't seem to make sense. But then again, a lot of this doesn't. Especially the part about the grand jury seems to have been swayed by the prosecuting attorney acting like a defense attorney.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)It does sound like the prosecutor acted more like a defense attorney.
He put on every single witness and allowed their stories to conflict. A prosecutor in a grand jury hearing only uses his BEST witnesses and his best evidence.
A defense attorney in a trial pulls in every crazy witness they can, to try and muddy the water. The prosecutor did that here with the grand jury.
And then, a prosecutor usually, "make a case" ... they don't just show the evidence, they tell a story around it. It sounds like this prosecutor did not do that. In fact, it sounds like he let Wilson be the only person who told an end to end story.
logosoco
(3,208 posts)I plan on reading more. Just the parts I've read so far sound like if this was a book or a movie, I wouldn't believe it.
I am hoping the DOJ will make a difference. They are looking at the whole department.
FormerOstrich
(2,702 posts)Is Wilson's testimony he had a struggle with one of two suspects, he then pursued the injured suspect as he fled, thus turning his back on the second suspect?
Why wouldn't he have detained the second suspect and pursued the injured suspect when backup arrived? Wouldn't you be fearful the other suspect would become involved?
Erose999
(5,624 posts)altercation his radio got switched to a different channel so when he repeated his call for backup he didn't get the right department.