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Tommy_Carcetti

(43,265 posts)
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 11:09 AM Dec 2014

Have you ever felt unfairly judged by another person?

Last edited Tue Dec 2, 2014, 05:03 PM - Edit history (1)

I have, at least once in my life.

It was years ago, at a summer job at a swimming pool. My boss there I still consider one of the worst human beings I've ever had to deal with in my entire life (and I usually like people and believe most people are good at heart). She was constantly attempting to make herself look like the "cool", "edgy" boss in front of her employees. You know, the whole, "I'm not your boss, I'm your buddy" schtick. But she had a seriously passive aggressive mean streak, and she had her favorite employees, and her not-so-favorite employees.

For whatever reason (I still to this day don't know why), I was one of her not-so-favorites. She would constantly criticize and nit pick everything I did. She would demand I enforce the most nonsensical rules at the pool. She once told me that my relationship with my then-girlfriend (now wife) was doomed to fail. Another time she told me that I was not smart enough to get a scholarship into graduate school (which I ultimately did). She accused me of omitting information on my job application (even though I had kept a hard copy of the application and was able to show her that I did not omit anything.) She scheduled me for long shifts on days that I had specifically asked off far in advance.

This grew worse and worse over the summer, until one morning when I arrived before my shift began. Except Boss Lady decided I wasn't sufficiently early enough, and she chewed me out and threatened to fire me if I wasn't sufficiently early for my shift again. It was the last straw, and I was sick of it. I was so upset and frustrated, but I didn't want to show it to her face to make me look bad, to let her know that she had gotten to me. So I went into the bathroom behind her office, went into a stall, and let out a scream. Just to get that frustration of having been abused emotionally and verbally off my chest.

I came back out feeling a little better. Except Boss Lady then came up to me and said she had heard me yell. And that she wondered if I was on drugs, because "that's how people on drugs act." And that was it. I had enough of her shit. I put in my notice of resignation that day.

So why am I posting this and dredging up old bad memories?

I'm posting this because I'm a white male, and what happened to me summers ago with that horrible boss at that pool was the exception, not the rule. But seeing how things went down in Ferguson last week, and how they've gone down for the decades before that, that this is how life is like for many African Americans in this country. They are constantly being put down, constantly being told they are less than, constantly being told they are failures. And when the last straw breaks and they dare get just a little out of line, those who have provoked and prejudged them can then jump up and say, "See! I told you so! They are violent!" And it's just such a frustrating, vicious cycle.

I had that feeling one day in my life. I can't even imagine having to wake up and feel that way day after day after day.

78 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Have you ever felt unfairly judged by another person? (Original Post) Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2014 OP
every day, i'm married. unblock Dec 2014 #1
^^^This One^^^ Tom_Foolery Dec 2014 #12
you want I should kick your henpecked ass, unblock? Skittles Dec 2014 #66
no fair piling on! unblock Dec 2014 #67
Powerfully put. ScreamingMeemie Dec 2014 #2
We do ourselves also..human nature KinMd Dec 2014 #3
when I was younger BubbaFett Dec 2014 #4
I do not think that was his point. His point, IMO, is that being put down constantly, in a way that djean111 Dec 2014 #5
Exactly. nt Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2014 #6
I have a bad habit of scanning text BubbaFett Dec 2014 #9
Do you care what .. 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #19
You assume way too much BubbaFett Dec 2014 #21
I wasn't trying to be a spokesperson for African Americans. Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2014 #22
Interesting ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #35
Let's see ... before I tell you to enjoy your ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #33
Not at all. I found this post to express extraordinary empathy. Dream Girl Feb 2017 #76
Well said. Rhiannon12866 Dec 2014 #39
you really need look no further than president obama. unblock Dec 2014 #7
Creating more alcohol out of our precious water resources? How irresponsible! Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2014 #8
LOL ... Good one! n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #36
Hey, it was a party! Brigid Dec 2014 #40
They did the same thing with Clinton oberliner Dec 2014 #26
with clinton it was different unblock Dec 2014 #32
Respectfully disagree oberliner Dec 2014 #34
fair points, but i see clinton as the start of a trend with obama getting it many times worse. unblock Dec 2014 #42
You make some good points as well oberliner Dec 2014 #44
agreed. we've gone from 3 tv channels to 300 channels or more, and they're more balkanized. unblock Dec 2014 #45
Agree. The Repubs obstruct and tear down all Dems anyway Alice11111 Feb 2017 #78
Turning water into wine? Without consulting Congress? tclambert Dec 2014 #27
Maybe workers need to wear always-on cameras rock Dec 2014 #10
I know their burden is much, much heavier than mine, so I have to believe Baitball Blogger Dec 2014 #11
google Jane Elliott, and "a Class Divided" yodermon Dec 2014 #13
I remember my 2nd grade teacher doing that experiment with us. Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2014 #14
Happens to me all the time on the DU Omaha Steve Dec 2014 #15
Exactly, Steve cpamomfromtexas Dec 2014 #16
I get judged all the time or pre judged olddots Dec 2014 #17
Yes... yuiyoshida Dec 2014 #18
Sigh ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #38
:) yuiyoshida Dec 2014 #41
Oy. You have the patience of a saint. hifiguy Dec 2014 #54
Oh dear, that sounds like something out of a sitcom!!! Odin2005 Dec 2014 #64
Really? In SF? I doubt that would happen in Madison. Elmer S. E. Dump Mar 2015 #74
This story is hilarious, though MrPurple Feb 2017 #75
Bingo. I've worked in the corporate world for 27+ years, and have bullwinkle428 Dec 2014 #20
K & R and no, I can't even imagine having to deal with that on a regular basis either. mountain grammy Dec 2014 #23
Many times bigwillq Dec 2014 #24
Sorry, but this OP seems extremely condescending to me. Flatulo Dec 2014 #25
Go to any open internet message board and read the comments on any story regarding race. Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2014 #30
Do you let nasty comments by anonymous assholes on the Internet define who you are? Flatulo Dec 2014 #31
It's more than just a couple of internet trolls, though. Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2014 #48
I agree with this post 100%, which I think much more accurately portrays the way the racist mentality Flatulo Dec 2014 #55
Not a problem. Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2014 #56
Because TC listened when Black Folks have told him ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #43
I don't imagine they are any less grinding... Flatulo Dec 2014 #46
Quite correct ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #47
Thank you. Yes, we definitely need more empathy in this cruel world. Flatulo Dec 2014 #57
i've had people yell the "n" word from passing cars noiretextatique Dec 2014 #58
It sucks that such nasty people are so abundant in our society. Many of them are too chickenshit Flatulo Dec 2014 #69
When I was 19 Aerows Dec 2014 #28
Happens a lot on forums. jambo101 Dec 2014 #29
Many times. Manifestor_of_Light Dec 2014 #37
Yes. WinkyDink Dec 2014 #49
It comes with the territory - I am Asperger's. hifiguy Dec 2014 #50
Yes, write a book ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #51
Will do. Just finishing up a piece for the audio website hifiguy Dec 2014 #52
HifiGuy, this sounds like me. Manifestor_of_Light Dec 2014 #60
I get along with musicians effortlessly hifiguy Dec 2014 #71
I've been told I'm a moron many times for going into Psych because "autistics have no empathy". Odin2005 Dec 2014 #62
Indeed I was. She and I were in the same section - hifiguy Dec 2014 #70
You really need to jump on the "autistics who write memoirs" bandwagon! Odin2005 Dec 2014 #73
Been there, live it. Aerows Dec 2014 #72
!!!!! Quayblue Dec 2014 #53
A lot, actually. Inkfreak Dec 2014 #59
Years and years ago by this dickhead supervisor at work Populist_Prole Dec 2014 #61
I have Asperger's Syndrome. I am been wrongly accused of... Odin2005 Dec 2014 #63
For being gay and Jewish. Behind the Aegis Dec 2014 #65
Not since I retired. B Calm Dec 2014 #68
Yup, most of my life. 2naSalit Feb 2017 #77
 

BubbaFett

(361 posts)
4. when I was younger
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 11:22 AM
Dec 2014

and I didn't really know who I was.

Now I honestly don't care what the fuck a stranger (any who isn't related by blood to me is a stranger, with the exception of two close friends) thinks about me.

God didn't put me on earth to win popularity contests or to please random people.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
5. I do not think that was his point. His point, IMO, is that being put down constantly, in a way that
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 11:26 AM
Dec 2014

actually and truly affects your life and your livelihood, can lead one to a momentary flash of anger.

I had the same reaction that you did - until I read the entire OP.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
19. Do you care what ..
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 12:33 PM
Dec 2014

The banker thinks of you when you apply for a loan, or that potential employer thinks of you when you apply for a job, or that police officer thinks of you when she pulls up behind you?

Your easy dismissal of this speaks volumes, as each one of those people are random strangers we encounter.

 

BubbaFett

(361 posts)
21. You assume way too much
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 12:58 PM
Dec 2014

Who said I was dismissing anything? I was talking about my personal experience.

I went back through and re-read the OP. You should be pissed that this person pretty much set themselves up as a spokesperson for African Americans in general.

Or are you looking for a slight where there is none? That's what they used to call "having a chip on your shoulder."

What is your personal experience? can you relate any bank loan anecdotes, job getting troubles, or LEO encounter stories that form the basis of your disaffection?

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,265 posts)
22. I wasn't trying to be a spokesperson for African Americans.
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 01:09 PM
Dec 2014

I was simply expressing an anecdote where I believe I briefly felt the type of prejudice that many black people experience on a day to day basis.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
35. Interesting ...
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 02:06 PM
Dec 2014

you relate a story that gives you a perspective of what Black folks experience ... and that poster tells ME (not you) that I should be upset with you because you related the story and stated that it gives you an understanding?

Give a racist a chance and he/she will prove Black observations correct, every F@#$ing time!

http://www.xojane.com/issues/why-im-masquerading-as-a-bearded-white-hipster-guy-on-twitter

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
33. Let's see ... before I tell you to enjoy your ...
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 01:56 PM
Dec 2014

sh!t-stirring, borderline (possibly racist) trolling, stay ...

At 10:36a.m. (by the DU clock), you responded to DUer djean that you have a "bad habit of scanning text" and indicate that "Life and livelihood" (makes it) "a different animal altogether"; but, nearly a hour and a half hour later (11:58a.m.), you responded to my pointing out "life and livelihood" matters, i.e., Banking, Employment, Police contacts, ... after re-reading the OP that I have a "chip on (my) shoulder" and am "looking for a slight where there is none"?

What changed?

But that said ... Yes, I do have banking anecdotes, (i.e., on a re-fi, being guided to a sub-prime loan, despite both my wife and I having 720+ FICO scores) ... Yes, in have job related anecdotes (e.g., having a client addressing my subordinate as if he was boss, despite the client having set an appointment with the boss ... me!) ... Yes, I have LEO encounter anecdotes (e.g., http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=83940) ... each of these (and many, many more, going back generations) have led to the basis of my disaffection.

Now ... enjoy your stay!

 

Dream Girl

(5,111 posts)
76. Not at all. I found this post to express extraordinary empathy.
Sun Feb 12, 2017, 03:29 AM
Feb 2017

That is what it's like far too often

unblock

(52,848 posts)
7. you really need look no further than president obama.
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 11:28 AM
Dec 2014

the man could turn water into wine and they'd still call him worst president ever.

he's held to a completely different standard than any other president.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
26. They did the same thing with Clinton
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 01:25 PM
Dec 2014

And he actually did turn water into wine.

Huge surplus, booming economy - and they still hammered him relentlessly

Rush Limbaugh built his whole career on Clinton-bashing.

unblock

(52,848 posts)
32. with clinton it was different
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 01:50 PM
Dec 2014

yes, republican partisans certainly went after clinton like crazy, trying to fabricate scandal after scandal.

but the media didn't entirely buy it. clinton was always portrayed as smart, capable, effective, and hugely charismatic. in short, he was respected.

this time around, the media can barely find a good thing to say about obama, though again -- massively reduced deficits, massively higher stock market, far better economy, etc.

this time it's not just republicans being rabid, with the media enjoying the show. this time, the media is very much aligned with the republican attacks and disrespect.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
34. Respectfully disagree
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 02:04 PM
Dec 2014

The media rode the Lewinsky scandal full bore, relentlessly portraying Clinton as a smarmy womanizer and focusing so much of the efforts and attention on that nonsense and less to his actual accomplishments as president.

The mainstream media (taking Fox News out of the equation) generally portray Obama as smart and certainly as a generally good, upstanding, moral sort of guy whom they respect in a way that they never did for Clinton who was alternately portrayed as a hick/hillbilly or as a duplicitous shady womanizer (i.e. Slick Willy).

unblock

(52,848 posts)
42. fair points, but i see clinton as the start of a trend with obama getting it many times worse.
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 02:22 PM
Dec 2014

yes, \clinton's media portrayal was complex and not one-sided. yes, they liked the hillbilly& slick willy aspects. but they also recognized him as a formidable president, capable of besting gingrich, capable of remaining quite popular amid so many scandal accusations. yes, the media took some shots at him, but i see this as simply not revering him. they still respected him.

i see the media characterization of obama as completely lacking respect. they may portray him as a decent man in the way they portrayed carter as a decent man but a hapless president. they consistently refer to obama as unpopular, sometimes deeply unpopular, when his approval ratings are no worse, and often better, than shrub's were, and they almost never referred to shrub as unpopular until the very, very end (and then, it seemed as if he was unpopular just because this external economic collapse happened to him, as if the president bears no responsibility for such things).

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
44. You make some good points as well
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 02:37 PM
Dec 2014

I think part of the difference has to do with the way media has changed since the early 90s as well. There is so much toxic anti-Obama stuff online these days for instance whereas when Clinton was president, that kind of thing was just in its infancy. The Drudge Report being the primary anti-Clinton internet engine at the time.

unblock

(52,848 posts)
45. agreed. we've gone from 3 tv channels to 300 channels or more, and they're more balkanized.
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 02:52 PM
Dec 2014

but while that might explain the toxicity level and the partisanship, it doesn't explain how one-sided it is.

when clinton was president, the mclaughlin group was one of the few tv shows with an overt bias; typically 2 liberals, 2 conservatives, and a right-wing "moderator". last time i accidentally clicked by that show, it was really just 1 liberal and 4 right-wingers, but it's no longer atypical. moderators are routinely biased, panel selection is routinely biased, liberals get cut off or shouted down, etc.

you have to retreat to a place like du if you want to vent liberalism, and even here it leads to an argument, lol!

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
78. Agree. The Repubs obstruct and tear down all Dems anyway
Sun Feb 12, 2017, 07:01 AM
Feb 2017

they can. They grind and dont let up...fuck the good of the country. They bashed Hillary w scandals for 30 years...created the Hillary Haters. It gets worse I think each presidential cycle. The last was Obama. He was particularly threatening to bigots because he was BLACK, and so smart, educated, articulate and scandle free...opposite of the bigots. He stirred up the bigots, just as Hillary and Warren stir up the sexists and misogynists.

These are not good people who play fair who we are fighting. We need to get prepared for that or they will continue to cheat and grind us down.

tclambert

(11,089 posts)
27. Turning water into wine? Without consulting Congress?
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 01:28 PM
Dec 2014

They said he acted like an emperor before. Now Obama thinks he's God? Impeach him for abuse of miraculous powers!

rock

(13,218 posts)
10. Maybe workers need to wear always-on cameras
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 11:47 AM
Dec 2014

Anybody in power (cops, bosses, politicians) need to be constantly observed. You know, that power thing.

Baitball Blogger

(46,941 posts)
11. I know their burden is much, much heavier than mine, so I have to believe
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 11:49 AM
Dec 2014

that the fact that they have managed to keep it together this long is a sign of strength. It's something you learn from I Ching. There's a time to wait, and a time for action.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,265 posts)
14. I remember my 2nd grade teacher doing that experiment with us.
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 12:15 PM
Dec 2014

The thing was, he was such a gentle, avuncular personality that everyone in the class loved. And I was put in the blue eyed group and I remember how shocked we were when he shouted at us to "Shut up!" while he treated the brown eyed group respectfully. After he explained to us why he did that, it made that much of an impression to me even at an early age.

Years later, in college our professor actually played the Frontline episode for us. Even though we now knew it was just an experiment, by the time the episode was over, I don't think there was a person there who didn't have tears in their eyes from watching it. I recall one of my black classmates commenting that having to wake up and look at herself in the mirror knowing the challenges she faced simply for the color of her skin was so incredibly difficult for her.

 

olddots

(10,237 posts)
17. I get judged all the time or pre judged
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 12:29 PM
Dec 2014

I think society is getting worse at distinquishing real people from video steriotypes and we need a jolt eveyone once in a while to realize we all are people .
The ignorance of predudice is based on tribal fearlike who is over that hill in the next valley .Even when we know whats over the hill our fear makes us think that the unfamiliar is evil .


End of rant.

yuiyoshida

(41,946 posts)
18. Yes...
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 12:31 PM
Dec 2014

Last edited Mon Oct 5, 2015, 07:15 PM - Edit history (2)

Why I HATE going to Benihana :

The most embarrassing thing for me ever was once going with a girl friend to a Benihana Restaurant in JAPANTOWN here in San Francisco. Benihana always takes groups of people and put them at the same dining table. Now it just so happened there was a family from South Carolina visiting Japantown and stopped in to try some of that fancy smanchy "Jap-OH-Neese" food. These people were very forward with everyone, and you would have thought We had sat down to their home dining table for dinner. The father checked out the chopped sticks and said..." No~ no~ No!! these won't do" (Meanwhile his 12 year old son had removed the chopsticks from the paper wrapper and were wearing them a-la walrus like up his nose...asking everyone to look at him. ) The Father refused to have chopsticks and demanded the wait staff bring him a knife, fork and spoon, because "WE'RE IN AMERICA and we eat the American way!!"

Since I was at their table, they kept asking me questions all through the meal about what every little thing was, and what it was. Fortunately my friend can read kanji so she was stuck with the task of explaining what soy sauce was, and how wasabi was similar to
Horse radish. The mother wanted me to teach her kids how to use the chop sticks which was totally a useless gesture and I hardly got the chance to eat my own food because Mia and I were stuck explaining every exhausting aspect about Japanese culture and how it was different from Chinese culture. ("What no Fortune cookies? Where are the dayam fortune cookies??.&quot

And of course I had to sit and listen to the father Joke about how sushi was called bait where they came from, and they were not "touching the shit" (Yes, this was said in a public restaurant.) It was the most humiliating experience in my life, and I swore I would never go back to Benihana's if they paid me. The food there was good... ITS JUST I got tired of the daughter pulling her eyes back with her fingers and going "Look mamma, I am JAPO-KNEES"... AND having to explain why the beer wasn't Budweiser.

MrPurple

(985 posts)
75. This story is hilarious, though
Sun Feb 12, 2017, 02:53 AM
Feb 2017

If there was a Coen Brothers movie about a Japanese person dealing with stupid Americans, this would be a scene.

This family definitely had a Trump yard sign.

bullwinkle428

(20,634 posts)
20. Bingo. I've worked in the corporate world for 27+ years, and have
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 12:37 PM
Dec 2014

had to deal with people along those lines on a number of occasions over the years. Fortunately, nearly all of them eventually crashed under their own weight and burned, or moved along to some other stomping ground, fertile for their brand of sociopathy.

Makes you develop a pretty good sense of empathy for disempowered people everywhere, if you didn't already have one.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
24. Many times
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 01:19 PM
Dec 2014

because of my height and, to a lesser degree, my sexual identity.

I am a vertically challenged male ( ) standing 5-foot-2 inches, and I always had to prove myself, especially while playing sports growing up. Opposing teams who never saw me play before always thought I wasn't very good, until I hit the ball past them or threw them out at first on a ball hit between second and short (I played second base).

Even as an adult, some think I am less of a man because of my height. In straight bars/clubs, some folks just stand there and ignore me, even when I say excuse me loudly to try to pass through a crowd. Then they look down at me, and I can tell they're thinking "I have to let this little runt go by" LOL

I am totally self-confident in myself and my appearance, but I still have to prove myself almost every day to some judgmental fool.

 

Flatulo

(5,005 posts)
25. Sorry, but this OP seems extremely condescending to me.
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 01:20 PM
Dec 2014

How do you know that 'They are constantly being put down, constantly being told they are less than, constantly being told they are failures.'?

Seems pretty presumptuous to me. I've seen people of all flavors being treated like shit by the occasional asshole.

I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist; we are an extremely racist society. But I think it's far more subtle than you indicate. Crossing the street when a black man approaches; feeling your heart speed up when a black man gets on the elevator with you; not wanting to open the door when a black salesman appears, and so on.

In fact, I think most people do their best to appear to not be overtly racist, although I'm pretty sure they don't fool anyone.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,265 posts)
30. Go to any open internet message board and read the comments on any story regarding race.
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 01:32 PM
Dec 2014

And you'll find dozens of comments made towards blacks like that. It's not just my liberal white guilt imagining things here.

Me, I personally was prejudged by the occasional asshole in the anecdote I shared. But that type of prejudice is exponential on minorities, trust me on that.

 

Flatulo

(5,005 posts)
31. Do you let nasty comments by anonymous assholes on the Internet define who you are?
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 01:48 PM
Dec 2014

If not, then why would you assume that black people do? Do you believe their self-esteem is that fragile? I would hope it isn't.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,265 posts)
48. It's more than just a couple of internet trolls, though.
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 04:56 PM
Dec 2014

And what you see is just a repeat of the same old shit that's been whispered--passive aggressively or otherwise--for decades. That they "lack personal responsibility." That they have a "victim mentality." That they "lack family structure." And so on and so forth, but mainly just a bunch of finger pointing and name calling.

And then you have instances where an unarmed black teens are shot by a police officers, or someone who thinks they are like a police officer, and somehow the narrative gets twisted around so that the unarmed black teen is always the aggressor.

And then you have a black man elected as president, and you have people who refuse to believe he is a US citizen, let alone the president.

If you don't see these patterns and this repeated effort to control the narrative, you are blind to what's going on. It's a reality, it's deplorable, and it wears down on even the strongest willed individual after a while.

 

Flatulo

(5,005 posts)
55. I agree with this post 100%, which I think much more accurately portrays the way the racist mentality
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 06:00 PM
Dec 2014

plays out. Your OP didn't strike me as very realistic - white people giving minorities a verbal scolding every single day? I spent almost 40 years in a very diverse work environment, and the scenario you describe just never happened, certainly not in public. In fact, I had a black boss for many years. I also had many white bosses, both male and female, and believe me, if they verbally abused anyone the way you describe, on a regular basis, they wouldn't have lasted six months.

Then again, I worked for a great company, DEC.

They just Do Not make companies like that anymore.

Anyway, sorry for nitpicking your post. I understand what you are saying.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
43. Because TC listened when Black Folks have told him ...
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 02:22 PM
Dec 2014

we are constantly being put down, constantly being told we are less than, and constantly being told they are failures.

More TC has probably witnessed stuff like this:

http://www.xojane.com/issues/why-im-masquerading-as-a-bearded-white-hipster-guy-on-twitter

I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist; we are an extremely racist society. But I think it's far more subtle than you indicate. Crossing the street when a black man approaches; feeling your heart speed up when a black man gets on the elevator with you; not wanting to open the door when a black salesman appears, and so on.


Question: What makes you think these expressions of "far more subtle" racism, are any less grinding ... especially when experienced nearly daily?
 

Flatulo

(5,005 posts)
46. I don't imagine they are any less grinding...
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 02:56 PM
Dec 2014

But I've been marginalized my whole life - not for my race, but for my looks. It happens to this day, and I'm 58 y/o.

It's no fun. We're a hateful species.

But my point was that TC's post seemed to me to be seething with pity. I don't imagine anyone wants pity - just to be treated as an equal.

I don't know what it's like to be a minority, and never will. But neither will TC. I've been keeping my mouth shut since the whole MB episode unfolded. I just don't think I can add anything to the conversation, and I don't think pity posts are very helpful.

We all know racism exists. Both overt and subtle. The only thing I can do is shut up and try to treat everyone like an equal.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
47. Quite correct ...
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 03:13 PM
Dec 2014

no one wants pity; but EMPATHY leads to self-reflection, i.e., how am I contributing to the problem, and that leads to a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

Flatulo

(5,005 posts)
57. Thank you. Yes, we definitely need more empathy in this cruel world.
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 06:12 PM
Dec 2014

Cruelty and bullying seems to start at an early age, and negatively impacts almost everyone; women, GLBTs, and certainly minorities. And it is born of privelege, whether it be the privelge of being white, or male, or tall, or popular, or good-looking.

I believe I've done a very good job of raising my son. I had a nasty childhood myself; bullies terrorized my neighborhood and schools. Dads were among the biggest offenders.

I think this generation of Millenials are, on balance, good people, certainly better than the Baby Boomers. I have a theory on that - my generations' parents were raised in wartime, and went off to commit unspeakable horrors in the war. They came back traumatized, but with no treatment of any kind available, so they self-medicated with pain killers and alcohol. Moms kept their mouths shut while Dads went crazy.

My wife and my friends had the same experience - drunken dad, indifferent and frightened mom. We didn't get a lot of love and protection. Thankfully we've heaped tons of love and gentleness on our own kids, and I think it shows in the end product.

noiretextatique

(27,275 posts)
58. i've had people yell the "n" word from passing cars
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 07:42 PM
Dec 2014

sometimes it is really overt, other times, it is more subtle. Tommy's point was: it is constant, it is not predictable, and it can be overt or subtle. hell...just turning on Fox is a trying experience because of the constant racism on that infotainment network.

 

Flatulo

(5,005 posts)
69. It sucks that such nasty people are so abundant in our society. Many of them are too chickenshit
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 08:32 AM
Dec 2014

to say such things to your face, and hide in a passing car or behind a keyboard.

It seems that a measure of anonymity emboldens many people.

I've had full cans of beer thrown at my head from passing cars while out walking.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
28. When I was 19
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 01:29 PM
Dec 2014

I had a job where the other employees went out of their way to express how much they hated me (because I slept with the daughter of the woman that ran the office, and she even called the place where I worked before I worked there to rant about the evil lesbian they had working for them - I didn't realize she worked there before I was hired).

I'll be honest - I was RELIEVED when I was "let go" because I hadn't finished my bachelor's degree (I was 19, duh, I was still working on it!). I was the only one that could fix the main boss's Spanish version of Windows at that time - they needed me far more than I needed them. I have never in my life been so relieved to no longer be employed.

jambo101

(797 posts)
29. Happens a lot on forums.
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 01:30 PM
Dec 2014

where a mod will disagree with one of your posts and ban/delete/or infract you, or on this forum you just get shut down/locked

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
37. Many times.
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 02:07 PM
Dec 2014

By people with an agenda of their own that had nothing to do with me. People who didn't like me for their own reasons.
I was once yelled at by a lawyer for "not being early enough", as the OP talked about.

Can't do anything to these people due to judicial immunity. They have their own problems and took them out on me.

And other bosses not in the legal field, as well.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
50. It comes with the territory - I am Asperger's.
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 05:16 PM
Dec 2014

Despite an Ivy League law degree - I graduated in the same class from the same school as the FLOTUS, I have been living in a shelter because I lost my home in May. I have never been able to get and hold a job even remotely commensurate with my intelligence and education. Why? I am more or less asocial around people with whom I do not share interests. Like most Asperger's people I have a few intense interests - some of which, such as left-wing politics and atheism - are off limits in day-to-day interactions. The rest are eccentric and esoteric: music, especially classical music and progressive rock though I also like electronic music and post-bop jazz, history, high-end home audio, animation, playing bass guitar, and theoretical physics/cosmology.

I've never had any issues with mental or physical illness, trouble with the law, addictions of any kind or any other "presumptive" disqualifiers. I am just odd. A therapist once told me I am just off enough to raise people's red flags, albeit subconsciously.

"Normal" people think I am "spooky" "arrogant" or just plain weird. I am just introverted, but this society is very cruel to introverts, much less Asperger's introverts. It doesn't matter that I can do the job - people want to work around people like themselves and I am not at all like most other people. I cannot read people and have no ear at all for office politics. I just do what I do, and I do it very well indeed, and expect that to be recognized and rewarded. I was born twenty years too early. Now it's OK to be a nerd, and I am a nerd's nerd, but I am far too old to be a modern hip nerd.

I don't see any way out of my current situation. Maybe I should write a book.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
51. Yes, write a book ...
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 05:38 PM
Dec 2014

or find a particularly creative employment counselor.

P.M. me, if you'd care to explore the latter.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
52. Will do. Just finishing up a piece for the audio website
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 05:55 PM
Dec 2014

I write for but I will be done in an hour or two. Thanks!

 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
60. HifiGuy, this sounds like me.
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 01:00 AM
Dec 2014

I can be very sociable.

"I am more or less asocial around people with whom I do not share interests." Put me with a bunch of conservatives and religious Christians who seem to be obsessed with thinking about God, and I will not say a word because I have nothing to say. No interest in it. No interest in hating the President and his family. No interest in watching Fox News. No interest in being really hateful and angry towards anyone. More interested in retreating from negativity than arguing with it.

That's me exactly.

And your interests match up really well with mine except for the physics part. Hubby has a BS and MS in physics and has been obsessed with quarks for over a year.

I can get really excited talking about some classical, some opera, some jazz, or 70s & 80s rock.

People who "speak the same kiind of music" I do. get it. Other people don't understand why I can be so enthusiastic about the most meaningful interest of my life.

It's not just a simple matter of introvert or extrovert. It's "I'm extroverted and sociable around people interested in the same things I'm interested in." I'm introverted if around people I feel I have nothing in common with and nothing to talk to about.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
71. I get along with musicians effortlessly
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 02:01 PM
Dec 2014

and have been in many bands over my 40+ years of playing bass. Get me going on King Crimson, Beethoven or Bill Evans and I will yak your ear off. I get along with people in high-end audio, about which I have written professionally for nearly 20 years and go to the Consumer Electronic Show nearly every year. I chatter like a magpie with audio people because there's a common interest to get over those first five minutes with people I don't know. Put me in a job interview and I am as talkative as a stuffed owl. I don't mix well with people I still think of as "grownups" or stupid people. Put me in front of a Minnesota Audio Society meeting and I can speak extemporaneously for 45 minutes and do a half-hour Q&A afterwards. There I can put on my wannabe professor's hat, a role in which I am comfortable and understand the dynamics of the situation.

I don't give a hoot in hell about your golf game, your kids' high-school sports or your lake place. If you enjoy it, fine, i give you joy of it, but don't expect me to be interested. I don't expect you to share my interests either. To me it's just reciprocal courtesy. But it isn't in a society that puts such a ludicrous emphasis on "selling yourself." I couldn't sell dollar bills for a quarter each. I hate "being sold" and will not/can not impose it on others.

in a nutshell, I get along perfectly normally with other nerds with whom I share interests. I really don't give a rat's behind about others, but in a totally non-malicious way.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
62. I've been told I'm a moron many times for going into Psych because "autistics have no empathy".
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 01:50 AM
Dec 2014

Apparently we are only meant to be computer programmers and savant artists.

Oh and you were a classmate of Mrs. Obama in law school? NO FUCKING WAY!!!

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
70. Indeed I was. She and I were in the same section -
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 01:48 PM
Dec 2014

in those days each incoming class was divided into four sections of about 145 students. I didn't know her but I knew who she was - she was hard to miss - tall, striking looking. My first boss in the legal profession was Jennifer Granholm. I was a first year working on the Civil Rights/Civil Liberties Law Review and she was a second year and the editor-in-chief. I was a lowly cite-checking grunt and occasional pre-reader of submitted articles. She was very nice.

I don't have any interpersonal "empathy" to speak of, can't read people worth a hoot and live strictly inside my own mind. Using the last phrase to a therapist was what allowed her to put the pieces together and diagnose me, which diagnosis has since been ratified by two other psychologists and a psychiatrist. There is a big difference between that kind of empathy and compassion, which is a different beast altogether.



 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
72. Been there, live it.
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 02:21 PM
Dec 2014

Some folks don't understand why you don't want to chum up, you just want to focus and do things without getting involved in being some sort of social.

I've never been capable of it, and I never will. The best thing I can have happen is people and animals that love me, don't try to push me into being social, and appreciate that I am at my best when I'm doing things alone.

Inkfreak

(1,695 posts)
59. A lot, actually.
Tue Dec 2, 2014, 10:05 PM
Dec 2014

At 6'4", 220lbs & covered in tattoos I get it a lot. It's frustrating. Know what I get a lot? Some guys will think I'm a white power type of guy and let loose a few choice racist things...that shit gets old.

Add in the looks I'll get from older folks who think ink means prison time..honestly I couldnt be happier that tattoos are really becoming popular. Less stigma.

Populist_Prole

(5,364 posts)
61. Years and years ago by this dickhead supervisor at work
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 01:37 AM
Dec 2014

Because I didn't have this "high & tight" appearance and haircut, always had me figured as a drug head. Not just me, but others as well. He would kid around, but I got the feeling he was using it against us.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
63. I have Asperger's Syndrome. I am been wrongly accused of...
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 01:59 AM
Dec 2014

..."making excuses" and "being lazy" since I was a child. Or being told that we Aspies are the result of not being "discipined" (read: beaten) enough as a child.

I cam empathize with African-Americans and other oppressed demographics because I know what it is like having my own reality dismissed all the time. It comes to fuck with your head and you end up questioning your own sanity.

Behind the Aegis

(54,182 posts)
65. For being gay and Jewish.
Wed Dec 3, 2014, 03:13 AM
Dec 2014

There were a few times I was judged because I am from the South. Most of the hate has been because of my being gay (here it is more directed at my being Jewish). Mainly, though, being gay has been really challenging. Even today, it is still a hurdle in some cases. Hell, it was just two months ago that I was finally allowed to LEGALLY marry the man I love, and it was still fraught with challenges. I have an undetermined stomach issue which has been on-going for 9 months, and when people here I am not feeling well, one of the first questions is...are you "sick?" (wink, wink) Translation: You got AIDS? The discrimination and social stigmas, even in this day and age, are still bad; maybe, not like it was "in the day," but still problematic.

2naSalit

(87,658 posts)
77. Yup, most of my life.
Sun Feb 12, 2017, 03:45 AM
Feb 2017

I get it for not looking exactly pearly white, was regularly called the "N" word as a child and into adulthood though I'm not African American; for being female, for being female and driving semis and doing better than most men without their help" (women aren't supposed to be better at anything than a man); for being female and having a brain that I use regularly; for not being wealthy or having a husband and for not wanting to have sex just because some guy thought I was sexy, or for getting a job that a guy wanted... and so much more.

Hell my own family treated me different because of my skin tone, which was the same as half the family but I was singled out and actually enslaved by them for years until I was able to liberate myself. Even the guy I married eventually told me he liked me as his little black gem, which is one of the reasons I left him... I have a slight olive coloring and dark red hair so I don't get where that mindset came from.

Yeah, been there, done that and I survive psychologically because I am intelligent and a recluse, staying away from the GP works for me in my private life. I go out in public on occasion and interact when I'm out and do interact with the public on my job, I go home to recharge my batteries.

Now I'm old and when someone shows that judgemental attitude, I just get away from them without comment, not worth casting pearls before swine.

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