The Unreasonable Fears of White People

[MineralMan]

I'm not exactly sure where the fear started for middle class white people. Fear of almost everything. Locked doors, no kids playing outdoors in neighborhoods. Fear of strangers, fear of some unnamed calamity. Fear of anyone who doesn't look exactly like they do. It's worst in the suburbs, in my experience. Front doors that are never used, with people driving into their attached garage and entering the house only after the garage door is down. It's sad and unhealthy for society. Here's an example from a couple of days ago:

I live in the northeastern corner of St. Paul, MN, a city of about 300,000. As it happens, the nearest supermarket is in a close-in suburb, along with most other shopping. So I go there. I went to do my weekly shopping the other day and worked my way through the store, filling my shopping cart. I had more stuff than was comfortable for the self check-out, so I decided to go through a regular check-out lane. Typical for this store, there were too few checkers for the number of shoppers, which is why I normally use the self-check. Anyhow, I looked down the line of check-out lanes. All of the open lanes had lines. Ugh. But wait...there's a lane with nobody in line.

I headed for it. There was one shopper ahead of me, while all the other lanes had four or more carts lined up. Why was this one so short? The reason was obvious: The checker was a young black woman, in her late 20s or early 30s. Did I mention that this was a suburban supermarket? People had apparently decided that they preferred being in a line of four carts than to go through a checkout lane with a black woman as the checker. Really?

Were they afraid of this young woman for some reason? I can't imagine why that might be. She was young, efficient, and pleasant. Why would people do that? I got my groceries checked out, said, "Thank you," and started bagging my stuff. There was nobody in her line, even though the other open lanes were still backed up with multiple shopping carts. I had finished bagging my groceries before anyone entered that check-out lane. Nobody. The light was on, indicating that the lane was open, there was no line at all, and yet nobody chose that lane. The reason was painfully obvious.

Welcome to suburban America. This is the problem. People are afraid of a checker because she is black. What a world we live in! It makes me very sad.

[oldandhappy]

1. That is a really sad story.

I am sorry for all the fear where I live. It is a totally safe neighborhood but everyone locks up everything. People tell me to close my windows when I am not home and at night. I am a fresh air freak, so ...

The fear in our culture disturbs me, I try to share joy!

[MineralMan]

7. Oddly enough, my actual neighborhood isn't like that at all.

People are out, kids are playing (when it's not below zero, anyhow) and it's a nice place to live. I'm in the actual city, in a working class neighborhood that is about as diverse as it can be, and there's none of that insular attitude. I know and talk to all of my neighbors, and we work together on things like snow removal and things like that. But, venture into the suburbs and it's a different situation.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

148. In my 'burb neighborhood

people pull into their garage, or near their garage and enter the back door because that's what is most convenient! All my neighbors do this, and it is especially convenient to unload groceries this way.

In my case, my driveway is too dang narrow for two cars to park in the back, so whoever parks in the rear will often use the front door.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. I'm going for the shortest line as I think most folks would.

I wouldn't care if the checker was a Martian.

[MineralMan]

4. Well, of course. But that wasn't what the stupid

fearful white people in that store were doing. Weird and sad.

[phil89]

20. Baseless assumptions

you don't know what was going on in their heads. Typical argument from ignorance fallacy.

[MineralMan]

23. OK. You give me an alternative explanation for

that behavior, then. I can't think of one.

[B2G]

25. Maybe she had just opened the lane.

Maybe it was on the end and not as visible as the others. Sounds to me like you didn't see it right away either.

"I looked down the line of check-out lanes. All of the open lanes had lines. Ugh. But wait...there's a lane with nobody in line."

[MineralMan]

38. Or maybe it's just as I said.

It was the lack of a line that made it harder to see, looking down the aisle. It was between two other checkout lanes, both with lines. I'm assuming that she hadn't just opened the lane, since there was one person already almost finished in the line when I got in it. I thought it was odd that nobody pulled out of the lane they were in to get in the shorter line. I'm a pretty observant sort of person. I described what I saw. But thanks for your question.

[Beartracks]

104. Shoppers at our local store cluster into lanes nearest the exit.

They seem to figure they parked at that end of the store and would rather stand in line than walk across the store to an emptier lane, and then walk back again to leave. Unless they need the "cigarette lane" at the far end, of course.

Or perhaps they, too, were angling for the self-checkout, saw it was full, and overflowed into the 2-3 lanes closes to that area, rather than keep walking the width of the store -- y'know, just in case there wasn't something open further down and then the walk would have been wasted as even MORE people got into those closer lanes ahead of them.

Bird in the hand.

By the way, this is rural Oklahoma, Reddest State in the Union (tm), and our (admittedly few) African America cashiers don't seem to have any shortage of people in their lanes.

=================

[JI7]

117. usually when lanes are opened up you will get people waiting in other lanes immediately going

there. and as MM said he went there to check out so people had that time to move into that lane but they didn't.

[Thor_MN]

160. From 2 or 3 suburbs to the west of MM, I can affirm his observation.

Same thing happens at "my" grocery store. If a checkout lane is much shorter than the others, odds are very high the cashier has darker skin than the majority of shoppers.

I dislike that some people are so stupid, but then again, it works to my advantage.

[AgingAmerican]

26. "People are afraid of a checker because she is black"

That is ridiculous. Sounds like you live in a bizarro world.

[MineralMan]

49. We all appear to live in a bizarro world.

There are many levels of bizarre in it.

[spanone]

3. k&r...

[cwydro]

5. I don't know where you live,

but I've never seen anything like that here.

This city is very integrated - blacks and whites live together, work together, shop together - and I live in the suburbs. Not going in an empty lane because of a black checker???

[MineralMan]

9. I'm in Minnesota.

You're in North Carolina. Very different environments. I live in a big city, and you don't see stuff like I described in the city itself. Only in the suburbs. The city is diverse as can be. The suburbs are white. That's the difference.

[cwydro]

11. This city has been integrated for years

I can't think of one section of the city or the suburbs that isn't mixed.

We're just lucky I reckon.

[AgingAmerican]

36. So people don't watch their kids

...or lock their doors in the city? Only in the safer burbs? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Perhaps you should have titled your thread, "The unreasonable fears of white people in Minnesota suburbs"? Because I have never experienced any of what you describe living in suburbs on the west coast.

[hopemountain]

114. why are you continuing to attack the op? nt

[99Forever]

125. I don't know which Minnesota he lives in...

... but we live in a small town, (basically a Minneapolis suburb) Andover and can honesty say I have never observed that sort of behavior around here. I work in Maple Grove, another close in small town and see a diverse array of races and folks of all types, I can't ever recollect anything such as he speaks of there either. I dunno what to say to try and explain what he says he saw, but it doesn't match up with my experiences in this state.

[ieoeja]

87. Don't you love it when you're told that things you've seen with your eyes did not exist?

I've had more than a few assholes pull that on me at DU as well.

I live in a Chicago neighborhood that sounds like yours. When I told folk in the neighborhood that suburbanite friends of mine refused to visit me a second time because our neighborhood is "too dark", everyone had a great deal of fun laughing at my friends. The census around that time indicated my neighborhood was over 90% White. But that was still too non-White for a lot of my suburbanite friends.

[MineralMan]

105. Happens all the time.

I pay no attention to it.

[840high]

177. Neither have I.

[Baitball Blogger]

6. Expressing fears serves two purposes:

(1) First, it helps them bond with people who share the same fears; and

(2) It currys immediate support for their cause. I have seen many neighbors use it to great effect. They form cliques and collude against their neighbor's interests, and then they use their fear of reciprocation to further tighten their bonds.

[MineralMan]

8. I suppose.

I don't like it. I'd shop elsewhere, but that supermarket is just too much closer to my home than I can ignore.

[B2G]

10. Not saying you're making this up, but

Seriously? I find this hard to believe. I shop at a suburban grocery store that caters to mostly whites. There are numerous black employees and I can assure you this would never happen. Ever. People are ALL OVER short lines.

[MineralMan]

12. It happened just as I described it.

Frankly, that checker was the first black checker I've ever seen in that store. Other stores in that chain have more typical diversity among their employees. It's that particular store. Same thing is true in the upscale market I sometimes go to for specific stuff I can't get at the other supermarkets. There are zero black employees in that store, despite the multi-racial neighborhood it's in. Zero. Zero black shoppers, either, again despite the demographics of the area.

Like I said, weird.

[B2G]

15. it is weird, and an anomoly

but you use it to draw broad conclusions about an entire race of people.

That's what's weird.

[cwydro]

43. Yes. nt

[bettyellen]

162. an entire race? LOL, read it again perhaps.

because he did not.

[hunter]

63. I've witnessed it.

This weekend, back in my childhood home. The self-segregated white people were afraid.

I might have heard more but I'm a known leftist who would happily piss on the grave of Saint Ronald Reagan.

[upaloopa]

13. Well that is not my world. Last night the African American

checkout person at Von's was as busy as all the other check out persons. I live in a smallish town on the Central Coast of CA. I think our town is about as racially diverse as you will find anywhere.
I think there is no "world" we live in.

[MineralMan]

14. True. I lived in Los Osos for 35 years, BTW.

I was sorry to leave, but family needs took priority.

[upaloopa]

19. Yes I remember you saying that

We are about the same age and lived in the same area for awhile. My wife's parents lived in Los Osos. We live in Lompoc but are moving to Santa Maria in March

[Odin2005]

16. I've never seen that up here in Fargo.

[MineralMan]

18. OK. Here are the 2010 racial demographics for Fargo/Moorhead:

According to the same survey, the racial composition was as follows:

White: 93.3% (Non-Hispanic Whites: 92.0%)
Black or African American: 1.6%
American Indian: 1.4%
Asian: 1.4%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander: 0.1%
Some other race: 0.8%
Two or more races: 1.4%
Hispanic or Latino (of any race): 2.5%
There were 3,032 African Americans, who made up 1.6% of the population.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fargo%E2%80%93Moorhead#Race

[mountain grammy]

17. In my rural community, I'm guessing the African American population is around .1%

but I've never noticed the kind of thing you witnessed, and we do have black checkers at our grocery store. I completely agree with your comments about the irrational fears so many Americans allow themselves to have, but am glad I've not seen the blatant avoidance of minority workers that you observed in your store.
We never have enough checkers, but, like me, shoppers head for the shortest line regardless of who is behind the register.

Now, with all that said, I know, realistically, hate and racism are alive an well in our small community. I have heard many say the reason they live here is because it is predominantly white. I remember during the ACORN non scandal, a citizen actually came to the town meeting to propose that our town board pass an ordinance to not allow ACORN to operate in our town, even though they already didn't. I stood up and said if we're going to do that, we shouldn't allow the Catholic Church to operate in town because there were actual, real criminal pedophile priests operating in that tax free organization. Of course, I took some flack for that one, but it put to rest the nonsensical ACORN bashing.

[MineralMan]

22. Why? Are you scheduling one?

I'm available, if so.

[Dreamer Tatum]

24. I find it interesting that you were the only non-racist in the entire store.

That is all.

[MineralMan]

28. Did I say that? I don't think so.

In fact, I mentioned two other people who used that lane. That lane was much shorter than the others, though.

You seem to have read something into what I wrote that I didn't include.

[Dreamer Tatum]

34. Let's count your broad-brushes

The Unreasonable Fears of White People (1)


I'm not exactly sure where the fear started for middle class white people (2). Fear of almost everything. Locked doors(3), no kids playing outdoors in neighborhoods(4). Fear of strangers(5), fear of some unnamed calamity. Fear of anyone who doesn't look exactly like they do(6). It's worst in the suburbs, in my experience. Front doors that are never used, with people driving into their attached garage and entering the house only after the garage door is down. It's sad and unhealthy for society. Here's an example from a couple of days ago:

I live in the northeastern corner of St. Paul, MN, a city of about 300,000. As it happens, the nearest supermarket is in a close-in suburb, along with most other shopping. So I go there. I went to do my weekly shopping the other day and worked my way through the store, filling my shopping cart. I had more stuff than was comfortable for the self check-out, so I decided to go through a regular check-out lane. Typical for this store, there were too few checkers for the number of shoppers, which is why I normally use the self-check. Anyhow, I looked down the line of check-out lanes. All of the open lanes had lines. Ugh. But wait...there's a lane with nobody in line.

I headed for it. There was one shopper ahead of me, while all the other lanes had four or more carts lined up. Why was this one so short? The reason was obvious(7): The checker was a young black woman, in her late 20s or early 30s. Did I mention that this was a suburban supermarket? People had apparently decided that they preferred being in a line of four carts than to go through a checkout lane with a black woman as the checker.(8) Really?

Were they afraid of this young woman for some reason? I can't imagine why that might be. She was young, efficient, and pleasant. Why would people do that? I got my groceries checked out, said, "Thank you," and started bagging my stuff. There was nobody in her line, even though the other open lanes were still backed up with multiple shopping carts. I had finished bagging my groceries before anyone entered that check-out lane. Nobody. The light was on, indicating that the lane was open, there was no line at all, and yet nobody chose that lane. The reason was painfully obvious.(9)

Welcome to suburban America. This is the problem. People are afraid of a checker because she is black.(10) What a world we live in! It makes me very sad.


At least 10. Also, you said only one person used her lane, not two.

[Long Drive]

81. Great Points

Why no reply to you?

[ieoeja]

90. Because they were stupid points often used by racists to claim victimhood. n/t

[MineralMan]

106. Why not ask me?

I didn't answer because I had already written that post. It said exactly what I wanted to say. I'm not rising to anyone's bait.

[Long Drive]

137. Because I Did Not Want To Ask You n/t

[MineralMan]

138. Ah, ok, then.

[Orrex]

144. That's a narcissistic dodge, and unfairly dismissive

The points raised are reasonable and worthy of further discussion. By declaring yourself impervious to disagreement, you preemptively claim immunity from fact-checking and review. I find that untenable.

I, too, find your account of the event to be questionable and non-definitive, yet you present the story as if your interpretation and only your interpretation is or can be valid.

What if another witness to this suburban bigotry were to post an account of it that contradicts yours? Would their story be as inherently unassailable as yours?

[Thor_MN]

161. I will back Mineralman's observations and question why so many are so very defensive...

I agree with his assessment. I think it's bullshit for people who have not lived here to be as dismissive as people have been in this thread. Everyone feel free to contrast and compare your community to what has been observed. Trying to claim that something doen't exist because you haven't personally seen it is a ridiculously small mind argument. I've never seen Antarctica, but I'm pretty sure it exists;

[Orrex]

163. No one is denying that racism exists, so your claim is a straw man

Further, at least one poster in-thread has visited the exact store described in the OP but has not seen a similar occurrence.

The prevailing sentiment is that the OP is either a deliberate exaggeration or a skewed (though perhaps unintentional) account of the event.

Some have noted that the OP relies heavily on inference that isn't necessarily supported by the event as described. Others have taken issue with the broad-brush statements in the OP about how "white people" think about racism.

Expressing one's opinion is fine. Exaggerating a tale for the sake of rhetorical hyperbole is fine. But when a story conflicts with the readers' experiences, it is not unreasonable for those readers to question it.


It's not a matter of claiming that racism doesn't exist; it's a matter of the OP not ringing true.

[Thor_MN]

168. Many have attempted to find every excuse possible.

The vast majority have absolutely no basis to draw conclusions from.

MineralMan made observations about a store in Minnesota. Coincidentally, I had the exact same experience this evening when I stopped for groceries on my way home. About 15 miles to the west of MM. Carts 3 or 4 deep in most lanes, the lane I went through had a young black man working cashier. I did not ask him why, but he was wearing an eye patch on his right eye. Must have messed with his depth perception, because he missed by a bit when reaching to take my rewards card to scan it.

Now, one could try to find some additional bullshit excuses why that would be completely impossible to happen, but unless you want to try calling me a liar as well... Maybe I should have taken a picture to document it to your satisfaction.

[Orrex]

171. Cool story, bro.

[cwydro]

50. Over the years

I've noticed a lot of these "grocery store" anecdotes that various posters tell. The OP who posts the story is always the great liberal hero.

I actually enjoy reading them. Some are more creative than others.

[cherokeeprogressive]

72. I do love the "you won't believe what I heard the fundy say in the..." stories.

They are some of the best reading on DU, especially if the storyteller goes into detail about how they put the offender in their place.

Years ago there was an epic thread about how someone was at the Post Office and started shrieking at the postal clerk for asking a question on a form or something like that. Most of the people on the board that day took industrial-strength exception at the treatment of someone who was merely doing the job their employer expected them to do. I'm positive that as the OP was making up the story, he thought he'd get major PROPS for "talking truth to power" or some shit like that. That's now how it went down at ALL. It was one of my favorite days as a DUer.

I never fail to read posts about restaurants, check-out lines, bumper stickers, and the like. You can't buy entertainment that good.

[DeadLetterOffice]

78. Although people really do say some amazingly stupid things

when standing in line at the grocery store. Like they're surrounded by a cone of silence or something, and think no one else can hear them. My all time favorite was "why can't the locals shop during the week when we're not here?" whined by NYC second-homer wife to her NYC second-homer husband in full view of half a dozen said locals in the backed up check out line.

Of course, unlike the epic stories, none of us said a damn word until they left, then we all commenced bitching about the rude citidiots. We may not like them, but we're not stupid enough not to take their money.

[JonLP24]

120. You'd be surprised the things say Fundies say

I have some stories myself.

[cherokeeprogressive]

142. I've lamented here a number of times about how this kind of thing never happens to me.

I grew up in SoCal, lived in Jacksonville, on an island in the Puget Sound (at a naval base and trust me, diversity was NOT an issue in a small town dependent on the naval base in its midst). I've lived in Austin, Choctaw, and now am back in SoCal. I've never found myself in a situation where I'm listening to someone close to me in a public place talking in a way that offended me. Not in a Post Office, not in a supermarket, nor in a restaurant. Toss in a year of driving Over the Road and all the truck stops I've been in. I must live some kind of boring life.

And now I have to wonder if it's because I'm simply not paying attention. If I'm not absorbed in a conversation with a friend/family member/whoever, I'm somewhere inside my own mind and not really paying attention to what anyone else is saying. So there's that too.

[JonLP24]

159. I live in the most conservative city with 200,000+ people`

Trust me, it comes up.

[ieoeja]

92. I can't imagine why you, of all people, would not like others standing up to racists assholes. n/t

[ChisolmTrailDem]

89. Your post got hidden. That is all. nt

[phil89]

176. Why do you

rhink whsts in people's heads? Do you know what the argument from ignorance fallacy is?

[LexVegas]

27. Bullshit.

[MineralMan]

31. A man of few words.

I like that.

[Blue_Adept]

32. Yup

I don't doubt that there was probably an empty line.

But the reasoning? Probably bullshit.

Imagine if the line had just opened and nobody noticed. Because I see that happening all the time, especially when checkers forget to put their lane light on.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

83. Yep.

I live in Raleigh, NC and would wager at least half of the workers at my local Kroger are black, and the shoppers a mixed bag, but predominantly white. Tuesdays are senior citizen discount days, and the joint is jumpin'. And this is in the freakin' SOUTH. I've shopped the entire mid-Atlantic region along with parts of the south and have never encountered what our resident former Freeper just shared. But let's stir the race relations pot just a lil' bit more...

[Long Drive]

139. Thanks for that post

It explains a lot. I'm new but this thread seems a bit contrived and ham fisted.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

140. Welcome to you...

and your finely tuned bullshit detector.

[Blue_Adept]

29. I couldn't get past this part

Front doors that are never used, with people driving into their attached garage and entering the house only after the garage door is down. It's sad and unhealthy for society.

Because it's just too comical. If people are that afraid, they're likely boarding up their windows and doors.

For a lot of homes, the way a house is used has changed over the years. I took over the house my parents had and I use it in a very different way than they do. Hell, the front door isn't even accessible from the inside because nobody uses it anymore. I don't want people walking into my living room like that. Instead, you go in through the open garage area into the mudroom.

Because I love going in the front door with dirty shoes, groceries,and traversing through the house to get to the kitchen instead of practically going right into it.

Must be because I'm afraid of the other.

[yuiyoshida]

30. The safeway I go to

All the Checkers are Chinese women, and I love going there.. and everyone there has no problem with this, which is why I Love San Francisco..The diversity is real and warm!

[MineralMan]

33. Lots of Asian checkers where I am, too.

Mostly Hmong, since that's a large group here.

[yuiyoshida]

37. I have a few friends who are

Hmong.. great people and very lovely to hang out with!

[MineralMan]

39. Most of my immediate neighbors are Hmong families.

They have the very best outdoor parties and the best food at them. I'm honored to be included, and have learned a few recipes to bring when I'm invited. Wonderful neighbors.

[Dreamer Tatum]

35. All the checkers are Chinese women

But the diversity is real and warm.

[yuiyoshida]

40. are you

making fun of me?

[MineralMan]

42. It seems as though that's the case.

Failing at it, too. Is that the Safeway on Webster?

[yuiyoshida]

56. I was speaking of a Safeway

On Taraval, that I go to occasionally. There is another one near Filmore by Japantown, near where I live. Taraval is a long way to go but I have friends I visit in that neighborhood, so I stop by and pick up some things, after visiting them.

[Dreamer Tatum]

44. OK. Once more. All the X are Y, but there is diversity in the X.

That is called unintentional irony. It is funny. I don't know you, so no, I am not making fun of you.

[yuiyoshida]

45. I mentioned the Chinese woman

But of San Francisco there are people from many races and cultures, to which I referred to as diverse and they are warm people. You were the one who chose to change the meaning.

[Dreamer Tatum]

48. Yes, I understand completely.

I forgot certain rules. I apologize utterly.

[ieoeja]

95. That would be your imaginary "reverse racism is okay" rule?

I miss the old DU when your racist dog whistles would have gotten you and cydrwo tossed off this site. I have to put up with enough of that dogshit outside of DU. The whole fucking point of DU was for a place to get away from you assholes.

[bettyellen]

165. well said- it's just one dog whistle after another

[gollygee]

143. That's not what she said

All the checkers in one particular supermarket are Chinese. Then she said that San Francisco overall is diverse. Those two statements don't contradict each other.

[MineralMan]

41. Oh dear. Haven't been to San Francisco?

I know the area where that poster lives very well. I'd be surprised if it were different at that market.

[kelly1mm]

75. Well the checkers at that Safeway are not diverse at all. Maybe that is OK, maybe not. If all

the police were Irish or all the bus drivers were Hondurans, would that be OK? To me, diversity would include not only people of different races in the same city but also in varied occupations.

[yuiyoshida]

77. Again please read what I said...

I said San Francisco is diverse.

[kelly1mm]

118. I did read what you said. Did you read what I said? I find it disturbing that all the checkers

in a particular store were of one race/gender. That, to me, is not diversity.

Just as if all the police were one race/gender.

Even if the city as a whole was very diverse.

[yuiyoshida]

135. Please feel free to take it up with the store manager....

Safeway Taravel
730 Taraval Street San Francisco, CA 94116
[phone]

Pharmacy Phone:
[phone]

http://local.safeway.com/ca/san-francisco-909.html

[snooper2]

85. I know, San Francisco is almost as diverse as Dallas Texas!

almost, but not quite-


San Fran-
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/0667000.html


Dallas-
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/48/4819000.html

[yuiyoshida]

88. OH come on, we have people from around the world...

You could spend more than a month eating at Restaurants from all over the world and never cover all the countries in the world. We have Indians (from India)Filippinos, We have people from Turkey, Greece, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Vietnamese, Italians, Hispanic from South America, Cubans, and Spain! We have Humong, Chinese, Thai, Japanese, Koreans, Cambodians, French, English, Scottish, Germans, Norwegians, Africans, Egyptians, Swedes, Australians, New Zealanders, Native Hawaiians, South Pacific Islanders, ...nearly every country on this globe is represented in San Francisco, so while you have numbers...of this and that, it does not break down very far to include the others I have mentioned and not mentioned.


We also have our Japantown, the largest in the country, Our Chinatown, the largest in the counry and Little Hanoi, the largest in the country. Down in Southern California we have the largest Korean town area in the country. There are Three Japantowns in the USA... SF, San Jose and Los Angels all in California..

[snooper2]

91. I actually live in Wylie Texas

My next door neighbors are from Sudan,

Across the street is a White family, then a Hispanic family, then an Indian family and a family I think are Lebanese next to them.


Bring your diversity on! LOL...

(I was actually surprised since Wylie is 90% white but I guess I got lucky )

[yuiyoshida]

94. You have probably never been to

San Francisco... Its more than just Fisherman's wharf and Rice O Roni... There are pockets of neighborhoods that would blow your mind, and I'm not talking about the Haight Ashbury.



There used to be more than 30 phone books in 30 different languages but they stopped making phone books. If you go into a city office or State office they have documents in over 30 different languages.

Languages spoken in San Francisco:

English only (404,570)
Spanish (89,760)
Chinese (89,015)
Cantonese (38,095)
Tagalog (29,195)
Russian (16,370)
Vietnamese (8,990)
French (8,915)
Japanese (7,330)
Korean (5,330)
Mandarin (5,135)
Italian (5,070)
German (4,885)
Arabic (3,230)
Portuguese (1,795)
Burmese (1,555)
Samoan (1,500)
Thai (1,485)
Persian (1,255)
Formosan (1,215)
Indonesian (1,145)
Greek (1,085)
Hebrew (1,070)
Hindi (1,060)
Armenian (915)
Urdu (895)
Swedish (780)
Mon-Khmer, Cambodian (775)
Amharic (665)
Gujarathi (615)
Ilocano (610)
Polish (600)
Irish Gaelic (560)
Panjabi (505)
Dutch (500)
Laotian (480)
Danish (455)
Kru, Ibo, Yoruba (400)
Serbocroatian (375)
Hungarian (375)
Pampangan (365)
Norwegian (340)
Turkish (330)
Bisayan (330)
Croatian (325)
Czech (320)
Ukrainian (275)
Wu (275)
Sebuano (225)
Mande (225)
Yiddish (195)
Pakistan, n.e.c. (180)
India, n.e.c. (165)
Fijian (150)
Syriac (145)
Albanian (135)
Hakka (130)
Malay (125)
Tamil (115)
Finnish (100)
Serbian (100)
Hawaiian (100)
Navaho (100)
Tongan (95)
Mayan Languages (90)
Slovene (90)
Telugu (90)
Bengali (85)
Pangasinan (85)
Romanian (85)
French Creole (75)
Slovak (75)
Tibetan (75)
Marathi (75)
Malayalam (75)
Basque (70)
Bulgarian (70)
Sinhalese (65)
Lithuanian (60)
Icelandic (60)
Nepali (55)
Swahili (55)
Miao, Hmong (50)
Catalonian (50)
Patois (45)
Estonian (45)
Afrikaans (40)
Chamorro (40)
Cherokee (40)
African, not further spec. (35)
Lettish (35)
Dakota (30)
Mohawk (25)
Macedonian (25)

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/snaps/data/06/06075_lang.htm

[snooper2]

100. I was in San Francisco about 20 years ago, was in San Diego last year

My sister used to live outside the city of Orange in Silverado Canyon a long time back-

I've been all over these states

[geardaddy]

154. I'm surprised there are only 50 Hmong speakers. n/t

[yuiyoshida]

156. My friend tells me most of the Hmong he knows

are in San Jose.

[geardaddy]

157. Ahh

Well that makes sense then.

[Marr]

133. Chinese checkers.

Hehe.

[AgingAmerican]

46. What a pant load

Seriously"? You judge a whole race based solely upon a snap judgement of a store checker? Seriously?

I don't believe your story, sorry.

[MineralMan]

47. No, you know, I don't.

I offered one example of something I've observed over time.

You don't believe my story? OK.

[jwirr]

51. When did this start. I would like to say it started in the 80s but I would be wrong. I think that

many of us who were alive during the 60s forgot that it was this fear and hate that we were working to end in the civil rights movement.

Anyone who has ever read the history of Nat Turner knows that the fear was there then. The white owners had always feared rebellion. And Nat brought it to them. The white power plays (like the civil war and jim crow) have always been about fear and how to control the people they fear.

We can also add in a few more emotions and then we see the mess we are in: white arrogance, hate and false pride.

[MineralMan]

52. I don't think it really started anytime.

I think it is just an extended thing that has been part of human civilization forever. Humans are afraid of whatever is different from what they're used to, pretty much. Not all humans and not everything, but it's a common things.

[Chico Man]

53. I lock my door because I've been broken into

Plenty of crack heads preying on suburban America.

[hunter]

54. Yep. This Thanksgiving weekend in segregated white world left me driving back home angry.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025897812#post113

The smog of racism is strong in some communities.

[wellst0nev0ter]

55. That Sort Of Reminded Me Of When I Went To My Sister's High School Graduation

about a decade and a half ago in Burnsville when it wasn't as diverse as it is now, and they held it in the football stadium there. The one thing I remember is all the empty seats that were around me and my family. Now why would a veritable isolation sphere form around us? Could it be because we were black? Nah, it can't be.

[hedgehog]

58. As noted many times above, there are places where this doesn't apply BUT

I think Mineral Man is correct is describing a certain kind of middle class (or above) white person. Why else are gated communities so popular? I presume gated communities are integrated, that the only thing that matters is that your money is green. On the other hand, the community is gated to keep out the scary stranger. (Treyvon Martin, for example.)

[gordianot]

60. Case in point I know white people terrified by Ebola.

As told to me two weeks ago in person as I looked that person in the eye direct word for word quote "It comes from Africa" (It being Ebola and I assume knowing this white person a double meaning). I was so taken back I stumbled over my stock answer to all racist bigoted comments "We all come from Africa that is where Homo Sapiens evolved".

[MineralMan]

62. Thanks. I wrote what I observed.

My conclusions are based on a lifetime of observation. I find this thread interesting in many ways.

[MrScorpio]

65. A lot of people simply aren't accustomed to dealing with isolated northern whites

I know them quite well.

They're quite different from East Coast or Southern whites, who are used to living in close proximity to black people.

Frankly, to me, isolated Northern whites are the scarier variety.

[stone space]

102. From Juror #4:

Automated Message

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message



On Tue Dec 2, 2014, 02:00 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I, for one, believe you, MM
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5899785

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Wow. Broad brush much? If we changed the word from white to black, this would be obvious racism. Please don't broad brush an entire race or ethnicity please.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Dec 2, 2014, 02:24 PM, and the Jury voted 4-3 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Leave it with one thought. The brush is not broad enough. Better wording might be.
Frankly, when PEOPLE are scared, they'd pretty much do stupid shit at a drop of a hat.
Fear Ebola, Fear ISIS, Vote Republican!

Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alerters claiming reverse racism will generally trigger my trolldar. And it'll be a cold day in hell before I hide a non-personal attack from MrScorpio. Alerter would do well to rein in his/her alert finger and listen to members of DU's African-American community. They likely know a bit more about racism than most non-AA DUers.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Number23]

124. The wisdom of people like Juror #7 will continue to be ignored here

[Heidi]

150. Story of my life.

Joke. I make no claim to wisdom, but I stand by my vote, whether anyone's listening or not, just like you.

Signed,

Heidi (Juror #7)

[treestar]

153. I was doubting it or surprised it would happen too

But then reading what #7 said makes me re-think it. It is easy for white people to think this kind of think is of the past.

[bettyellen]

167. Easy? Lazy and selfish is more like it.

[Matrosov]

84. I'm surprised

..at how many people here accuse you of overgeneralizing. What you said isn't any different from what many of us say in other threads related to race, only you were able to cite an example you witnessed firsthand.

I live in a very white, very conservative area in the South. Therefore it's not at all difficult for me to imagine that there are whites who'd avoid a checkout line just because of an African-American cashier.

[ieoeja]

98. Wholly fuck! All the posts calling you a liar are left standing. One agreeing with you gets hide?!

And how did maced666's post not get an automatic ban? It was at least hidden. But it was blatant out-and-out, not even trying to hint it, racism.

[Number23]

126. Maced is also full of bull caca

His "stats" about the number of murders committed by blacks and whites are as wrong as they are irrelevant to this conversation

2011 arrests - http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43
2012 arrests - http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

[noiretextatique]

86. make that two

i've had several incidents in grocery stores, usually with older white people. always minor, but i notice.

[ieoeja]

99. Make me four.

My grandmother said she was taught to cross the street if she saw a Black person coming up the sidewalk. My family worried about that a bit til she finally pointed out that she always thought it was stupid. She was just telling them what kind of idiocy her family believed

She had been estranged from her family for a long time. Long story. Her dad raped her, so her mother sent her away.

Okkay, I guess it wasn't that long of a story.

[Nye Bevan]

64. White Minnesotans in a hurry would *much* prefer to wait in line an extra 15 minutes,

and possibly have their ice cream melt, than have a black person check them out.

Sure. Yes. Entirely believable.

And congratulations on being the first DUer in 13+ years to notice this phenomenon. It was obviously going on under the noses of the rest of us and we never even realized it.

[SummerSnow]

66. It started in November 2008

[Throd]

67. The made up stories of white people. I call bullshit.

[TRoN33]

129. I hate to say it but author of this article is right.

I used to live in Stillwater. I kid you not, Stillwater is considered most liberal city in northeastern suburbs of Twin Cities. Outside of Stillwater's limits are reliable red all the way toward blue St. Paul. This author mentioned Maplewood which is not surprising to me because despite its suburbity, Maplewood is heavily white, even some of their truck donned confederate flags on their back window.

[Throd]

134. Still don't buy it.

I live in a community of very uptight wealthy white Republicans. They're all going to the shortest line regardless of the race of the clerk.

[Thor_MN]

164. Do you live in MN? If not, then you have no basis of comparison.

Feel free to note what happens or not in your community, but open up your mind a tiny little bit to realize that your little corner of the world is not representative of every other corner of the world...

[Throd]

175. Still not buying it.

I have lived in a lot of different places, with wildly different demographics and affluence.

The scenario as described in the OP would not have happened in any of them.

[Thor_MN]

178. Anyone who thinks that only the things that they personally have witnessed can possiby happen

is a short sighted idiot.

[heaven05]

68. there is a serious

problem among certain segments of this society, a large segment I might add, that is in fear of it's own shadow. Racial hate will bring on a situation in this country that will finally show the world what they already know. That amerikkkans have only been fooling themselves when denying their stupidity and ignorance in hating another race based on what the RW press and radio/television feeds them every day about the merit of one skin color versus another. This hypocrisy is not a hidden secret of our so called democracy any longer. Cannot hide the executions by murderous, racist cops and others, zimpig comes to mind, the violence and racist hate. In fact the dirty underwear is finally out in the open for everyone who is willing to see, to be seen. I hope that young woman will be able to not take their stupidity and ignorance personally. That's what I tell young people. It is their problem, just don't make it yours if you can help it. That it continues and is getting worse makes me sad yeah, but it also let's me know where I stand and I am ready for the heat from the good merikkkan idiots.

[TRoN33]

69. Is that in Stillwater or Woodbury?

I did heard the same stories about whites would typically avoid cashiers who happens to be black people. We white people are #1 assholes.

[MineralMan]

108. North Maplewood.

It's the Cub on White Bear Avenue, north of County Road B. I shop there because it's close and other businesses I go to are in the same area.

[TRoN33]

130. I know that store. I'm not surprised because some of...

Maplewood idiots have guts bigger than bull balls don the confederate flag painting on their back window of their trucks.

[Catherine Vincent]

70. Really?

Are you sure the others didn't notice it was open? I can't believe that would be the reason but if it is, that's very sad.

[MineralMan]

109. There were checkout lanes on both sides of that one. Each had

three or four people in line. I doubt that they didn't notice.

[DinahMoeHum]

71. ". . .home of the brave. . ." Ha ha, I'm laughing. NOT.

[Maedhros]

73. Another odd phenomenon: people who respond with outrage

at the idea that white people might be scared of or intimidated by black people.

We've had an entire history of examples.

[msanthrope]

76. It's a rollcall on this thread, yeah? nt

[ieoeja]

103. I could never serve on MIRT. Would ban a good dozen posters for their comments on this thread alone.

And they do it everytime something racial comes along. Every. Damn. Time. But they still get away with it over and over again.

I think it's the whole "must be friendly to guns" thing. Most of these are gungeoneers. If they get banned, they'll tell everyone that is why they got banned, rather than their non-wavering support for every racist in the news. It's like they are blackmailing DU into letting them stay.

[Nye Bevan]

122. Wow. You would ban people for posts that weren't even hidden by juries?

You are correct, it is good that you are not on MIRT.

Did you alert on the dozen posts that offended you? What were the jury results?

[DustyJoe]

80. example

The motorist last weekend beat to death with hammers was not scared or intimidated enough not to get out of his car when they were damaging it with the hammers. In hindsight he would have been better off to be scared or intimidated enough to floor it to get away. Now he's history sadly enough.

[alcibiades_mystery]

96. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Maedhros]

101. I'm not seeing your point. [n/t]

[MineralMan]

110. Not that odd, really, all things considered.

[azurnoir]

74. Interesting story which suburb? I shop in both West St Paul and Maplewood never observed anything

quite like that, ditto even Inver Grove Heights

[MineralMan]

111. North Maplewood. There's another Cub in South Maplewood.

I've never seen anything like that in that one.

[azurnoir]

119. okay I go to the Cub on County Rd B in Maplewood was it there?

cause really I've never seen anything like that

[MineralMan]

136. Is that the one at Rice and Co. Rd. B?

I've never been in that one. Mine's on White Bear Ave. Technically it's in North St Paul.

[azurnoir]

141. yep that one

I've never been to the White Bear Ave one but I think that one is partially owned by the Kowalski's of Kowalski's markets, at least that's where some of their employee meetings are held-2 of my daughters have worked for them

[lark]

79. No one would get groceries in my area if they excluded going to any lanes with black cashiers.

I live in No. East FL. where the population is 50% AFrican American and that proportion is probably true of grocery store cashiers as well. That doesn't happen in this working class, generally redneck area. People don't want to wait that long to buy their groceries. We do have a lot of racists who probably wouldn't go to a black physician, but they don't hesitate to go to a lane with a black cashier.

Why the unreasoning fear? I think it really ramped up with the Willie Horton advertisements from Reagan or was it Bush the 1st? The 1% exploits this fear in their advertisements, amping it up to an unreasoning level.

I also think that a lot of cases of claimed fear is just a bullshit excuse as it is with Darren Wilson. White police officers know they can kill a black person and go free 99.9% of the time, so they don't see a downside. They get rid of anger and there's no reprisal. When action starts happening against them, bet this will decrease a lot. It's really just an extreme form of bullying. I think bullying, which is how I bet these killers start, has increased because parents don't take action to stop it. I let my very tall son know when he was young that I would never tolerate him bullying another, that he was not to use his size to intimidate and there would be severe consequences should he ever do that. It was never an issue, he's a gentle giant. Too many parents will side with their children, even when they are causing deadly harm. For shame!

[bravenak]

82. This would never happen in my city.

But there are certain little towns where I could see this happening in so I believe you. I have experienced strange things like this, not to ths extent , mind you, but it's happened. I usually just laughed an got the attention of someone in line and told them I'll take them over there. Eventually somebody would wake up and come on over. I don't even think it's intentional most of the time. I never really thought most of the people were racist in any way. Honestly. American's can be weird. It's our culture.

[haele]

155. Really? So pointing out bigotry is bigotry?

There is a significant fear that a large number - probably over half, in my experience - of white people have when dealing with anyone that isn't white. They actively try not to deal with "those people" and they'll make all sorts of excuses why they don't pick a certain cash register or bank teller (the OP's thread) - or mechanic, plumber, or doctor; why they don't live in certain more affordable neighborhoods, or why they leave their long established churches and neighborhoods when "those people" start attending move in. The same excuses they use to explain why they won't go out of their way to introduce themselves to that new Black, Hispanic, or Asian family (usually because of the loud children) that just moved in next door, but "that young blond man with the girlfriend who looks rather like a plump Angelina Jolie with bad skin who moved in across the street - well, they might just need some neighborly help for them to settle in".

Mind you, they'll always tell you they aren't racist, they're just "uncomfortable" because there's a certain element "those people" bring with them. And they'd much prefer it if "those people" hadn't decided to take jobs or move into their neighborhood.

For 55 years, since I can remember - I've seen this attitude over and over again shown by a significant percentage of white people across the United States, pretty near everywhere I've lived or worked. It's a soft, neighborly bigotry based on the desire not to be challenged by unfamiliar cultures or experiences. These white Americans Mineral Man talks about feel very comfortable having the primary voice in a very small world that they choose to live in. Anything that is different than what they believe, how they live and conduct their lives, is an attack. And their reaction pretty much always comes down to fight or flight.

And that's not "hatred of White People". That's pretty much a call out on the way the metaphorical "Big Fish in Little Ponds" (i.e., people who think they matter in small communities) act. And for the most part in this big country, these Big Fish consider themselves "White".

I've got no problems calling out generic White People - they've got the majority of social power in this country. And yeah - I'm Scandihoovian/British Isles/French/Germanic White, myself. I'm just not afraid, nor am I easily insulted by broad brushes.

After all these years, I learned that when there's a large population of any group that causes a problem, a broad brush needs to be used to address the problem- to paint the boundaries, otherwise, nothing is going to get done as the group that needs fixing picks away at any attempt to find a solution because "they're not part of the problem". The solution needs not be broad brushed, but addressing the problem does because it gets everyone in that group involved.
So yes - "Hey White People. Hey Black People. Hey, you people who call yourselves Christian, or Muslim, or Jewish, or Buddhist. Y'all have a problem with a large group of people that do crappy things to other people in Your name. You may not be part of the problem, but you need to be part of the solution"

Haele

[Rex]

97. You sure she was not working the 10 items or less lane?

Maybe you don't even have that, but here we have 3 or 4 lanes dedicated to 10 - 15 item shoppers. Most shoppers will abide by the rule and not go to that lane if they have a lot of items.

OTOH, I know exactly what you are talking about, I've seen white people cross the street to avoid walking into/toward a crowd of black people. I've never paid attention to see if the reverse was true. I will have to do some more people watching next time I am downtown.

[MineralMan]

113. Nope. I avoid those lines unless I actually only have a few items.

Usually, I use the self-check lanes.

[WinkyDink]

107. Why "fear" rather than a more obvious "dislike"?

[MineralMan]

115. How do you dislike a complete stranger?

I only dislike people I know who have given me reason to dislike them. I'd never seen that checker before, and I'm in that store three or four times a week to pick up a few things. So, nobody would be likely to know her well enough to dislike her. Now, there is a checker in that store with a really, really sour personality. I do not go through her lane.

[rbrnmw]

112. I have reasonable fears OF white people

[MineralMan]

116. Good point.

I can understand it, in a way, even though I'm an old white guy myself.

[mcar]

121. I live in rural FL

And had a near-identical experience just today MM. Busy big box store, lines 4 deep but for one staffed by a young AA woman. I thought it was because she was farther away from the grocery side of the store but now you have me wondering.

[madinmaryland]

123. For the thirty years I lived in both Connecticut and Maryland, I never saw such a

situation. There were many minorities who were cashiers and no one thought a thing of it.

Since moving to a "lily-white" community, I have re-learned the unsaid bias of that community. So I can see it happening in your "lily-white" community also. I am in SW Ohio in a suburb. Come to think, I do not remember any minorities working at the local Kroger, except for retrieving carts from the cart corral.



As an aside, the local news is talking about a new drive thru package store (beer/wine) that just opened. As my wife would say...

"It's fucking Ohio"!!

[ladjf]

127. The Unreasonable Fears of ignorant people. nt

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

128. Locked doors?

Mine began after the second time I had a burglar enter the house. I do still use my front door, and I have no problems going to any check out person, as long as I haven't had them before and found them to be incredibly slow.

[LostInAnomie]

131. I do not believe you.

[Marr]

132. I think you may be reading it inaccurately.

I can't imagine people passing up a short line because the cashier is black. I live in Los Angeles and not Minnesota, of course, but still. I go checkouts all the time with cashiers of every variety, and the only preference anyone shows is which line will get them out faster.

Maybe she just opened her register. Maybe she just happened to have checked out ten people with one item each and all the other cashiers just happened to get the full carts.

[steve2470]

145. I know sometimes, I am too lazy to ...

Last edited Fri Dec 5, 2014, 01:51 AM - Edit history (1)

change lanes. I am from the South of course, and have never seen this. If so, that is horrible.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

146. That's just bizarre

In any town in the south, there are black checkers everywhere, and I can tell you that I've never seen anyone avoid a checker solely because of race.

Poor blacks did menial jobs and white people were accustomed to having blacks work for them. That's the way it was, so who would avoid a black checker at Wall-mart? That doesn't even fit with a racist mentality, unless maybe one is a far right white militia/KKK type.

[gollygee]

147. The upper midwest is a bit different than other parts of the country

I keep telling people to read Sundown Towns, and here I am referencing it again. The history of racism in the upper midwest wasn't to make people of color only work menial jobs, it was to use violence to completely drive them out of city after city after city, and in large cities where that was unlikely to be successful, to drive them out of neighborhood after neighborhood after neighborhood. There are cities where no African American could ever expect to find any job or anyplace to live, and there were a great number of them up until around 1990. There are lots of cities in the upper midwest where no African Americans would have been able to enter without police involvement even up until fairly recent decades. Those cities might very well still have enough dysfunction to create a scenario as in the OP.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

149. Thanks for that info

That's just bizarre to me.

I can truly say that the people who make me feel weird are the women in full niqab in the full heat of a Houston summer, but thankfully, most women of Muslim faith around here only wear the hijab. It's too freaking humid and hot for anything else.

[Thor_MN]

172. It doesn't take any organization to create the scenario in the OP.

Just distrust. Same thing happened on my grocery run tonight, about 15 miles to the west.

This neighborhood's history has been mostly blue color, mostly European. It is changing here as the wealthiest move to McMansions on postage stamp lots in new developments further out and to the west and south. Or as the the long term home owners age and downsize or move to retirement housing. As the housing stock in the second ring northern suburbs of Minneapolis ages, it becomes relatively more affordable. The people moving in are much more diverse than the people moving out.

Minnesota Nice sometimes means that while one would likely never do or say anything overtly, making a comment with your feet is not out of the question.

[Scootaloo]

151. Question for all the posters saying "I've never seen anything like that!"

...Have you all ever bothered to look?

[AgingAmerican]

158. yes

nt

[dilby]

152. I know where it started, it started with money.

See fear is big business and it sells like hot cakes, so the media sells fear, Hollywood sells fear and the Government sells fear. If you want to get a buck out of a person just convince them the world is dangerous and they are about to be killed by nature, fellow man, space aliens or whatever the fuck you want and the sheep will wait patiently in line to give you money and wont even complain about the price of admission.

[Skittles]

166. while I agree there are a lot of unreasonable fears

I've never heard of people avoiding the shortest supermarket line because of the color of the cashier

[Thor_MN]

169. Must be a Minnesota thing then.

It does happen.

[Skittles]

173. my dad was from Minnesota

I do remember racism there, but have found that often people will put aside their bullshit if it benefits them in some way (like getting them out of a store faster)

[Thor_MN]

174. I have never been able to figure out the "conservative" mindset

Probably because they have to twist themselves into knots to cram everything into a binary situation. 100% right or 100% wrong requires lots of hypocrisy and dismissal of facts.

5 miles to the north is Michele Bachmann's district... Just saying.

[hughee99]

170. White people are unbelievable!

It makes me sad as well.

[Chico Man]

179. Seriously

Did you just cast a blanket judgement against an entire race of people?

There is a word for that, you know..

[hughee99]

180. Sorry, "blanket judgements" seemed to be the theme of the OP. n/t