Abusive Cop Picked to Head Obama's Police Reform Commission

[99th_Monkey]

Abusive Cop Picked to Head Police Reform Commission
Chief Ramsey has been a national leader in militarized policing.
Alternet * December 2, 2014 * By Steven Rosenfeld

Philadelphia Police Chief Charles Ramsey, one of two co-chairs apppointed by President Obama to head a commission on ways to demilitarize local police, is known for leading repeated bloody and abusive crackdowns on protesters when he was Washington, D.C.’s chief a decade ago, according to a civil rights attorney who won millions in damages for 100s of citizens attacked by D.C. police.

“If the president’s idea of reforming policing practices includes mass false arrests, brutality, and the eviscerating of civil rights, then Ramsey’s his man. That’s Charles Ramsey’s legacy in D.C.,” said Mara Verheyden-Hilliard, Executive Director of the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund (PCJF), speaking of the ex-D.C. chief and current Philadelphia Police Commissioner. “Obama should immediately rescind his appointment of Commissioner Ramsey, who is a mass violator of civil rights and civil liberties.”

On Monday, Obama appointed Ramsey and Laurie Robinson, a George Mason University professor of criminology, law and society, to head a commission that the president said will suggest steps that the executive branch can take to unwind the most visible aspects of America’s militarized police—its domestic use of military gear.

“They are going to co-chair a task force that is not only going to reach out and listen to law enforcement, and community activists and other stakeholders, but is going to report to me specifically in 90 days with concrete recommendations, including best practices for communities where law enforcement and neighborhoods are working well together,” Obama said Monday, continuing, “How do they create accountability; how do they create transparency; how do they create trust; and how can we at the federal level work with the state and local communities to make sure that some of those best practices get institutionalized?”

http://www.alternet.org/activism/abusive-cop-picked-head-police-reform-commission

[Socal31]

1. Reminds me of here in OC, where the sheriff is also the coroner.

Fox.....hen-house.....

[Recursion]

2. Huh. I remember him as pretty decent in DC (nt)

[Scuba]

18. Surprising absolutely no one.

[Recursion]

53. Especially since he wasn't "abusive" (nt)

[Scuba]

59. Then why did DC have to pay millions in damages from when he was the top cop?

Do you not consider "leading repeated bloody and abusive crackdowns on protesters" as abusive?

Actually, that wouldn't surprise me. You make some good posts and have provided DU with some unique perspectives on a variety of issues, but I wonder how you reconcile what often appear to be conflicting views.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/02/1348894/-Open-thread-for-night-owls-Is-co-chair-of-police-reform-panel-part-of-the-problem-or-the-solution

Philadelphia Police Chief Charles Ramsey, one of two co-chairs apppointed by President Obama on Monday to head a commission on ways to demilitarize police departments, is known for leading repeated bloody and abusive crackdowns on protesters when he was Washington, D.C.’s chief a decade ago, according to a civil rights attorney who won millions of dollars in damages for hundreds of citizens attacked by the police.

...

More than a decade ago, when Ramsey was the D.C. police chief, he lead numerous crackdowns and mass arrests of protesters—starting in 2000. His most high-profile assault was in September 2002 at Pershing Park, where demonstrators protested World Bank and International Monetary Fund meetings. The police locked down the park and arrested everyone there—400 people—including journalists, legal observers and bystanders.

The Partnership for Civil Justice sued and the District of Columbia Court of Appeals ruled the arrests violated the protesters' Fourth Amendment rights and held that Ramsey could be personally liable. In August 2007, City officials agreed to pay $1 million to more than 120 of the protesters, as part of settlements that cost the city $22 million. A detective at the scene testified Ramsey gave the arrest order, saying, “We’re going to lock them up and teach them a lesson.” Later Ramsey denied ever saying that.

[Recursion]

62. Well, having been beaten by a cop at Pershing square, I actually have some insight into this

And the suit was a fiasco. That wasn't DCPD, that was Park Police and Capitol Police.

[Scuba]

63. Are you saying the article is factually wrong about DCPD and the damages?

[Recursion]

65. I'm saying the piece takes one lawyer's interested word about what happened (nt)

[FSogol]

67. Probably because ""leading repeated bloody and abusive crackdowns on protesters" is hyperbole of the

grandest kind. Ramsey's two mistakes while in office were: massive arrests of protesters without giving a dispersal announcement. The city had to pay $1 million (not "millions of dollars in damages for hundreds of citizens attacked by the police&quot in a settlement.

His other mistake was stopping and collecting info from drivers in high crime areas of the city whether they had committed a crime or not. This (believe it or not) outraged the Police Union which sued to stop it.

Ramsey has been a decent police chief in DC and Philly. There is an effort today to bash Obama by making Ramsey into something he isn't.

[Scuba]

69. So he arrests peaceful protesters but is going to lead a critical police vs civil rights commission?

[Recursion]

71. People protest in DC in order to get arrested

That's the whole point. There are set aside areas where you go to get arrested and that you avoid if you don't want to be arrested. DC actually does protests pretty well.

The problem at World Bank and WTO was that the park police, Federal marshals, and capitol police got into an immense pissing contest and never coordinated, and Ramsay didn't tell them to get stuffed.

[Scuba]

72. So, in your mind, the reason people protest is to get arrested? WTF?

Peaceful protesters should not be arrested. Full stop.

[Recursion]

85. Many do

Like I said DCPD sets up specific areas you can stand to be arrested and avoid to not be arrested.

[grasswire]

3. who advises Obama on appointments?

Another ringer, apparently.

[Union Scribe]

5. I guess if we apply the usual explanation

he 'had to appoint someone with experience in the field,' including experience in the corruption.

[truedelphi]

8. Maybe Eric Holder, former death squad lawyer? n/t

[helpmetohelpyou]

4. Obama's track record

nothing new here , just move along folks

[ellennelle]

6. honestly folks

i'm perpetually perplexed by the presumption expressed here that our progressive inclinations are the only ones in the country the prez should ever pay any attention to.

like you, i wish he could ride in on a white steed in his silver armor and just kick some ass, but that's pretty, y'know, dicktatorial.

like tbogg said so well, grow the fuck up.

i have to say that to myself quite frequently.

here's the thing. the president is the president of ALL the peeps, not just his'n. that kind of mywayorthehiway attitude, last i checked, is what we generally see from the tealiban folk.

in order to reform an agency, you have to actually get some inside poop, no? hence geitner. etc.

better to have the opposition on the inside pissing out instead of on the outside pissing in. and all that.

in this case, for this commission, there are two "stakeholders" (as he referred to those attending the meeting monday), the citizenry and the police.

he chose a scholastic lawyer and this police officer. imho, he should have chosen that former policeman from - was it philly? - who has totally turned around, and was marching in ferguson.

however, that would have made the commission pretty lopsided.

but yeah, if he were king, he could just command it all the way we want, right?

but then, we would no longer be a democracy, right?

seriously, kids, taking this kind of attitude veers dangerously into the lazy thinking tealiban category, which only exacerbates the divisive situation we're already in.

this is just a commission; it will be interesting to see if any common ground can be established.

meanwhile, what purpose does it serve to trash obama? i thought the GOP was doing overtime on that already; they need an assist? you guys volunteering? ok then, but so who needs enemies?

[jazzimov]

9. + 1000

[sendero]

10. It's ok if Obama's not really a progressive...

... but then he should STOP THE CONTINUAL LIES CLAIMING TO BE PROGRESSIVE.

[kelliekat44]

13. I never heard him say this. nt

[jberryhill]

31. "continual"

He apparently goes about saying this all day long and nobody else hears it either .

[Karmadillo]

11. Why would anyone presume the president should only pay attention

to progressives? From the suppression of single-payer to the looking forwards not backwards when it comes to prosecuting war criminals and banksters to the continuation of the Forever War, he's pretty much made it clear he has other interests. Progressives don't need to "grow the fuck up" as much as they need to learn voting for moderates and conservatives who have temporarily draped themselves in progressive clothing does not lead to progressive change.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

77. +infinity. nt

[woo me with science]

14. When did the Third Way decide that respecting the fundamental civil liberties of protesters

should be dismissed as only a "progressive" issue?

When did selecting someone who does not have a history of brutally suppressing protest become something to be snidely dismissed as though it were some pony rather than a constitutionally protected right of all Americans?

Do you even pay attention to how twisted those Third Way talking points you are repeating have actually become?

[Nay]

45. Thank you! Exactly how is not beating up protesters only a "progressive"

issue?? How the hell can people actually be thinking this way?? Well, folks, this is why this country is falling deeper and deeper into the pit of fascism; we can't even get people on DU to understand why we should not have a former abusive cop as the head of a commission on how to stop the abuse. It. does. not. compute.

And to blandly state that Obama is doing the right thing by "representing ALL the people" by appointing this guy is, without a doubt, the most asinine thing I've read this week. NO. We do not 'represent' even the right-wingers by appointing an abuser to the commission -- we support ALL THE PEOPLE by appointing members who all support the non-abuse of protesters. We select these members by looking at the members' past records in the area. We DO NOT select members who by their actions have shown that they think force is the first option and protesters are scum.

[woo me with science]

74. Well said.

Especially this:

And to blandly state that Obama is doing the right thing by "representing ALL the people" by appointing this guy is, without a doubt, the most asinine thing I've read this week. NO. We do not 'represent' even the right-wingers by appointing an abuser to the commission -- we support ALL THE PEOPLE by appointing members who all support the non-abuse of protesters.

[99th_Monkey]

82. Thank you woo me. A voice of reason always. nt

[TheKentuckian]

16. Timmah is the example you want to use? Don't see how that would inspire confidence

These folks aren't "pissing out" but rather passing and shitting all over the place and making folks sick so now we are puking up the place too and it is vile.

No better they be outside where the tent blocks some of their waste products versus flooding the place with mess.

Your list of clichés and appeasement talk is worse than worthless, folks with your mentality are so focused on being magnanimous and compromises that you forget what the goal is before negotiations begin and start figuring out a way to surrender.

If you want to place the opposition in equal stead as me, don't ask for my vote, time, or money. In fact, go fuck yourself. I'm looking for representation not a wringer for the other side.

The board is their to reform not kiss ass, it damn well should he lopsided on the reform side.

[Scuba]

19. Ever? How about "occasionally"?

[City Lights]

26. +1!

[morningfog]

24. Sad sad sad apologia.

Utterly pitiful sycophancy.

[Hotler]

30. "grow the fuck up." ???????

I take that as an insult. This president has had the chance to do the right thing many times and choose to do what would make the PTB (his handlers) happy. Welcome to DU.

[FSogol]

50. Well said. n/t

[ReRe]

7. Commissions...

... y'all remember how the last one turned out.

Commissions are where they talk the issue to death, and by the time they come up with a report, nothing is done. Either that or it is a white-wash committee.

Dash cams and lapel cams. On every one of them. Period.

Oh, and if they want to know where to get the money for all those cameras? From the military budget.

Yes, I noticed Ramsey sitting to the right of PO in the photo-op.

[hobbit709]

12. "A committee is the only known lifeform with 3 or more bellies and no brain"

[ReRe]

15. .

[woo me with science]

17. K&R And the trashing of our fundamental Constitutional rights continues.

Right to protest? Only on that goddamned piece of paper.

There is nothing more important right now than stopping Hillary or any other Third Way corporatist in a Democrat suit from being shoved down our throats as the Democratic nominee in 2016. If corporatists succeed in doing that, they will have ensured the continuation of this predatory, fascistic garbage no matter which side is elected.

Corporate Republicans and the corporate Third Way are not just another flavor of politician within an essentially functioning representative government.

They are building perpetual war, a police and surveillance state, and using our own laws and intelligence agencies to empower corporations over the will of the American people to dismantle democracy itself.

[Scuba]

20. Sorry, he's the only candidate Jamie and Lloyd would approve.

[geek tragedy]

21. You think Jamie Dimon gives a fuck about police militarization stuff? nt

[Scuba]

22. You bet. He's counting on the cops for when the proles show up with pitchforks.

[geek tragedy]

28. NYC is not a hotbed of armed revolution nt

[Volaris]

23. If this President (that I voted for twice) wants a concrete recommendation, I have one for him...

ban the on-person carrying of firearms by local law enforcement.
The Riot Shotgun with the rubber bullets and pepper rounds can stay in the patrol car, as well as the loaded city-issued officers' handgun.
WITHOUT them, they have enough personnel suppression gear on them to pass for Batman, and there's no reason they shouldn't be well trained enough that they CAN'T put that equipment to the proper, effective, and NON-LETHAL use.

Go ahead, light me up. I'm ready for it this morning =)

[cwydro]

25. Way to go, Obama.

I don't even have the energy to feel disappointed anymore.

[FSogol]

27. Example of bloody crackdown on protesters in DC?

[G_j]

39. from the link:

(and I might add, I was in DC for these protests and over 600 people were rounded up and pre-emptively arrested the day before the main demonstration.)

• April 2000 protests IMF/World Bank. “(It is noteworthy that Ramsey deployed the National Guard against the protesters during these protests). A group of peaceful protestors sat in a circle in an intersection [20th and K Street], notably one that was already closed to traffic by the police cordon blocking vehicular traffic in areas of downtown for the IMF/WB meetings. They sat there peacefully with their arms immobilized in that PVC piping. A bus pulls up. A platoon of MPD officers get off. They have their badges obscured either by removal, taping over or punching out numbers (all common practices under Ramsey). The leader of the platoon shouts something to the effect of “let's do this” and they charge the protesters who are immobilized and cannot flee, with their batons out and begin beating them. The officers smash in their faces with their batons, breaking noses and teeth. Blood is pouring out. For years the MPD, under Ramsey denied this happened, and it was pre-cell phone videos. We eventually obtained a video, which it turned out, had been turned over to the MPD’s General Counsel’s office directly after the incident. They had lied and withheld evidence for years. There was no investigation or discipline of any one involved. In addition, we established that Chief Ramsey was on notice to the practice of officers hiding their identity as they engaged in misconduct and allowed it.”

[FSogol]

40. Do you really believe that the Police chief has the authority to call out the DC National Guard?

There are plenty of youtube videos of the protest. The show US Marshals arresting protesters. Maybe you think Ramsey was in charge of Federal officers too?

[G_j]

41. This wasn't the National Guard nt

[FSogol]

42. YOUR excerpt reads: "It is noteworthy that Ramsey deployed the National Guard against the protesters

Here's another for the idea that Ramsey invented LEOs hiding their identity.

[G_j]

43. you are barking up the wrong tree

I was there. The abuses I sited were not carried out by the NG. The excerpt does not say it was the NG who attacked the protesters at the intersection. I know very little about the NGs part in this. And yes, the cops had tape on their badges.

[FSogol]

44. You excerpt is seriously incorrect yet you posted it. There were many arrests during that protest,

but it was not a "bloody crackdown" by Chief Ramsey.

[G_j]

46. it says the assault on the protesters at the intersection was carried out by Metropolitan Police

officers. I did not not witness this particular event. Did you?

[msanthrope]

48. Obama picks a Black Muslim police chief....and the rightwing should explode over this. Yeah.....

the rightwing should.

[99Forever]

29. Could someone please remind me...

... why I voted for Obama? I'm having a very difficult time coming up with an explanation, as I gave up doing hallucinogens decades ago.

[Paulie]

34. Any republican was worse

Oh, and hope.

[NCTraveler]

32. "ways to demilitarize local police"

They can't write this stuff with a straight face. The feds, who support the militarization of local police forces, are claiming they are appointing someone to demilitarize the police forces? It is in direct contradiction to reality.

[fredamae]

33. PBO may be a master

12 dimensional chess player but his ability to pick "the Best candidate" to head up agencies and commissions etc? SUCKS.

How many times do we have to endure these piss poor choices?

[Paulie]

35. Lots

Till 2017.

[fredamae]

37. That is Not the Answer

I wanted to hear--this early

[G_j]

36. Ramsey????

you must be fucking kidding! Looks like the so called "reform" is over before it begins. This is a very cruel joke.

[jchima]

38. Nothing new

what did you expect

[msanthrope]

47. If you head over to Free Republic, they are bashing Ramsey for being a Muslim, and for his

handling of the DC Snipers. There are interesting threads in the archives there.

I must admit a bias....having been a Philly lawyer, I've met Charles Ramsey, personally. I think he will serve the country well.

[FSogol]

49. I don't have a problem with Ramsey on the board either.

For the anti-cop crowd, is there a single LEO in the country, you would pick for the board? All of the anti-Ramsey furor is nothing more than Obama bashing, imo.

[msanthrope]

51. No matter who the President picked, the FDL wing of the party would have had a sad. The fact that

Charles Ramsey was picked, however, indicates that the President is giving the middle finger to the rightwing---who targeted Ramsey over the DC Snipers.

Ramsey has great connections with the FBI. He also did a good job managing Philly Occupy. He took on a pretty corrupt police force in Philly and made definite improvements. He's got a lot of respect in Philly, and that's well-earned.

[FSogol]

54. It takes a real moron to blame Ramsey for the DC snipers. Only one of the 13

shootings occurred in DC.

[msanthrope]

55. Well...Free Republic abounds with morons. My troll account there has racked up

over 90k posts of moronitude.

[FSogol]

57. Free Republic and morons is redundant.

[msanthrope]

60. Morans, really....nt

[Recursion]

70. I miss Chief Moose

He was great during that time.

Apparently he's a beat cop in Honolulu now, or was a few years ago...

[G_j]

52. how intellectually dishonest,

I was fucking there when 600 peaceful protesters where surrounded and arrested, many of them hog-tied for hours on end. It has nothing to do with bashing Obama.

Are we going to defend the Ferguson Police Chief also?

[FSogol]

56. Surrounded and arrested is not a "bloody crackdown." Yes, many were wrongfully arrested

and detained. The city paid out $1 million in a settlement.

Which LEO would you have put on the board instead of Ramsey? Any reform of Police in the US must involve the Police. Who would you pick?

[G_j]

66. I have no idea

I simply am conveying my own observations concerning Ramsey and protest. I am sure there would be a better candidate out there.

Of course there was a lot paid out in settlements. An ACLU lawyer told me money was already put aside for this, as they knew they would be violating the law and the rights of citizens.

[vi5]

58. Is there a henhouse that Obama can't find a fox to guard?

Let me gues....12 dimensional chess.......fixing it from the inside....who better than someone who knows the system....etc.

[olddots]

61. Dudly Smith was the right man for the job

But he is a fictional character that so many of the cops seem to idolize .

[Sheepshank]

64. Good God!!!

if Obama picked Nelson Mandella, there'd be those here that would find fault in whatMandella did prior to being imprisoned and use that against him today.

So many of the predictable crowd crow constantly that Obama picks the very worst persons, with the very worst of all credibility for these cabinet, and commission positions.

[FSogol]

68. +1 n/t

[obnoxiousdrunk]

73. +100 ... n/t

[Andy823]

81. Exactly

Everyday it's the same Obama bashers going ballistic about something, even if that something isn't even true, they ignore any facts that are used to prove they are wrong, and continue to bash, bash, bash. This is the second thread I haver read in the last 20 minutes that is filled with the same old bashers, refusing to listen to any poster who disagrees with them and who actually show facts to prove just who wrong the bashers really are. It's getting pretty pathetic around here with the constant bashing going on day after day.

[G_j]

76. "Boss Hogtie"

Last edited Wed Dec 3, 2014, 05:59 PM - Edit history (2)

guess these little bits of history don't matter as long as RWingers are upset over his appointment. For we all know the purpose of this commission is to upset Freepers... (what about justice and reform? and we expect a pony too?)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_H._Ramsey

Pershing Park arrests[edit]

On September 27, 2002, the MPD made a mass arrest of a large group of demonstrators who had assembled in DC's Pershing Park to protest the World Bank and International Monetary Fund meetings. The police enclosed over 400 people in the park and arrested them without ordering them to disperse or allowing them to leave the park. Many of the arrested were not actually demonstrators, but were journalists, legal observers, and pedestrians.

On January 13, 2006, the District of Columbia Court of Appeals ruled that the arrests violated the Fourth Amendment and that Chief Ramsey could be held personally liable for the violations. On August 2, 2007, City officials in Washington agreed to pay $1 million to more than 120 of the protesters, on top of other settlements by the D.C. government, including one for $640,000.[2] Ramsey was represented by Mark Tuohey who generated at least $1.53 million in fees for his law firm Vinson & Elkins.[3][4]

According to testimony given by Detective Paul Hustler, Ramsey himself gave the arrest order, although he has repeatedly denied this. Hustler claims he overheard Ramsey say "We're going to lock them up and teach them a lesson." [5]

[Sheepshank]

83. hyperbolic heading from someone who has an agenda

That is exactly how this post feels.

[sabrina 1]

78. I remember Ramsey well. The question is, why are any police chiefs needed for this? This is a

civilian issue, the brutality of the supposedly civilian police whose salaries are paid by the people?

I would like to see an all Civilian group made up of Community Leaders from across the country put in charge of this.

Nothing this guy says is going to have much credibility.

They just keep recycling the same old 'insiders' who are part of the problem in an effort to make it seem like they plan to do something when the people become angry enough that they have to do something.

[MisterP]

79. most! anti! police! brutality! President! EVER! nt

[hifiguy]

80. Everyone who is surprised by this stand on your head...

Panel of foxes clears themselves in chicken disappearances.

[liberal_at_heart]

84. What is up with Obama's appointments. He has had maybe one appointment that I can

agree with. All the others just plain suck. I suppose it is his desire to hear all points of view and be bipartisan. I am so sick of him being bipartisan. The American people need a champion, not someone who waves the banner of bipartisan all the time.