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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis is just crazy. Couple arrested for moving into their own home
Atlanta:The Newton County Sheriffs Office is investigating why a couple was confronted at gunpoint by neighbors and then arrested and forced to spend the night in jail when they tried to move into the home they had just purchased, Channel 2 Action News reported.
Jean Kalonji, an immigrant from the Congo, said that being confronted by armed neighbors brought back painful memories.
Channel 2 Action News Jean Kalonji, an immigrant from the Congo, said that being confronted by armed neighbors brought back painful memories.
The Kalonji family had just closed on a foreclosed home and were told by their real estate agent they should go over to the house and change the locks.
But when Jean Kalonji and his wife, Angelica, started working at the home, an armed man and another person who appeared to be the mans son allegedly confronted them.
He say to put the hands up and get out from the house, otherwise he would shoot us, the husband told Channel 2.
The neighbors didnt believe the couple when they told them they had bought the home and called the Newton County Sheriffs Office. The Kalonjis didnt have the closing papers with them, so deputies arrested them, charged them with loitering and prowling and took them to jail.
Yvette Harris, the couples real estate agent, said they never should have been arrested.
They rightfully own this house, Harris said.
Kalonji, who grew up in the Congo, said the experience brought back painful memories.
There, they put me down with the gun to my head, and come here, the same, he said.
Mark Mitchell, spokesman for the Newton Sheriffs Office, said authorities are looking into it, exactly what occurred, why it occurred.
A person at the neighbors house said no one wanted to talk to Channel 2 about the incident.
http://www.ajc.com/news/couple-held-at-gunpoint-1423138.html
htuttle
(23,738 posts)ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)dkf
(37,305 posts)eomer
(3,845 posts)If they had waited even a few minutes the squatters might have been gone because that's what they do - move in for a few minutes and then flee before anyone can catch them. That's why there's no time to check whether they are in fact the new owners as they claimed. Or better yet, just shoot them and let God sort it out.
obamanut2012
(26,137 posts)Good answer to a reply.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)Did you forget the thingy though?
eomer
(3,845 posts)And I agree that it could have ended even worse, with people dead. There are consequences to this growing mania for solving more and more problems with guns, both by the police and by civilians.
socialist_n_TN
(11,481 posts)It probably wasn't necessary. Looks like everybody got it without it. But don't you just love it?
And IMO, what this proliferation of SYG laws do is allow the general public the "freedom" to enforce their biases with deadly force. The same freedom the police have had forever. Now EVERY nutso can have legal protection for killing black people. Or Latinos. Or communists. Or union workers. Just give it time and it will filter down to ALL of us except the fascists.
eomer
(3,845 posts)me b zola
(19,053 posts)Very well said.
good points
fasttense
(17,301 posts)yardwork
(61,703 posts)Occulus
(20,599 posts)there's no room for anything else on the front page...
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)plus threatening with a deadly weapon and/or terroristic threatening.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Cirque du So-What
(25,973 posts)although this 'excuse' falls flat.
liberalhistorian
(20,819 posts)to see you defending this bullshit? Next thing you'll be saying that race had nothing to do with it and we need to wait for all of the facts 'cause we just don't know, and that the neighbors had a right to confront with their guns.
Igel
(35,356 posts)But every time a house in my neighborhood is emptied by its inhabitants I watch it when I can.
Every time a car or truck pulls up I check out any signage on the vehicle. Inspector? From a bank? Landscaping folk keeping the weeds down?
Or somebody ripping out appliances, wiring, stealing fixtures? Just vandalizing the house for the fun of it?
When I was househunting there were a lot of houses with holes in the wall where the vandals (apologies to the real Vandals) found plastic pipe. Housing without stoves or fridges that had them when the occupants moved out.
The house we finally got hadn't been broken into. (I assume some of the damage I fixed was due to the bitterness of the previous occupants, who managed to have cable and satellite TV, 3 landlines plus several cell phones, etc., but couldn't afford $1100/month in mortgage/escrow.) However I did spend a day fixing the fence that neighborhood kids knocked down for the heck of it and cleaning up glass on the back porch from where kids had decided to trash stuff the former owners left behind and add broken soda/beer bottles to the mix.
Igel
Don't feel bad using the name Vandal - as the Vandals was a nasty tribe, who really made the late antiquities a hell for the romans....
Diclotican
eShirl
(18,503 posts)and making hell for their enemies. That's just how the ancient peoples rolled.
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)eShirl
Oh yes they did... When they was building their little empire they did horrible thing to their enemies, and could be rather nasty to others - but when the empire was stabilized, and the "best" emperors was put into charge, after the republic was dead that is, it was universal stated that the roman Empire was at peace, and inside the empire peace prospered for more than 250 year... Under the aegis of roman governors.. Some bad, some good, some just did their job as best as they could...
Diclotican
AnotherDreamWeaver
(2,852 posts)When his brother showed up to clean the place out and get it ready to sell, he found someone had come and taken the water heater.
Rex
(65,616 posts).
trumad
(41,692 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)Aerows
(39,961 posts)well, mostly. I expect I'll get a ding and a hide, and don't particularly care.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)neighborhood.
I think that's pretty obvious. I wonder how many White people, moving into a new home they've held at gun-point assuming they must be squatters?
dkf
(37,305 posts)This behavior.
Rex
(65,616 posts)me b zola
(19,053 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Iggo
(47,565 posts)Death to trespassers and thieves.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)are so late-20th Century.
(in case it's needed)
pasto76
(1,589 posts)the shitheads have zero ground to monitor, patrol or conduct any other business on property that is not theirs. Do you carry proof that you own your house? Shouldnt you carry your mortgage papers then? I expect in your head you think that's a stupid point, but if you want to offer something other than "they were black/foreigners" (which is what you reply really says), then you have to accept that. It's OK for them to get arrested, it's OK for you to get arrested.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)those they think are squatters with a gun? why did they just not call the sheriff's in the first place, unless of course calling the sheriff consisted of looking over their shoulder and yelling "hey Roy looky at what we got us here"
it's one thing to be suspicious it's another to go point a gun in someones face
BTW I live in a city neighborhood where we have had problems with squatters including ones that attempted to open a meth lab in an abandon house, no one in their right mind does what these people did
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)FFS
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)It takes a lot of doing to get them outta there. Legal process and all. In the meantime, they don't care for the property properly, become part of the community, etc.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But
Let me take a guess...new owners are black and heroic paranoid eighbors are white...
Just a guess. I mean them %#^* don't belong.
Oh and I doubt it has much to do with squatters who usually don't change locks.
paulk
(11,586 posts)one of the "new owners", the wife - is white.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)It's a deep fear in the US.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)guess not.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)they did falsely arrest and imprison people.
are you saying they can just go, "oops, my bad"?
tblue37
(65,487 posts)pnwmom
(108,994 posts)jpak
(41,759 posts)racial profile fail
yup
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)Either party could have shot the other. Question is which individuals would have actually been arrested for it?
You come up with this?
You are consistent, at least. How you have managed to have friends (or not) speaks to your abilities.
Good grief. Get a dog or a cat or something and learn some compassion.
On the other hand, just learn some compassion and leave innocents out of it. For crying out loud.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)UnrepentantLiberal
(11,700 posts)Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I guess, so the neighbors wanted to prevent squatting. Once someone squats, it takes a while and a legal court proceeding to get them out.
There may have been a language problem, too, since it sounds like they don't speak English very well.
The better course of action would've been to call whoever owned the house (the mortgage company or tax authority) to see if they'd sold the house & notify them of someone changing the locks.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)is for the police to arrest the the neighbors with guns and charge them with assault and menacing or whatever else would be appropriate.
If this couple had a CCW, then how would this have ended?
Kaleva
(36,342 posts)They had no legal right to go onto property they didn't own and threaten to shoot the people they found there.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)If Georgia has the really crappy SYG laws (being Georgia I suspect they do); then you only have to think someone is breaking into a house to shoot them.
How does one define "reasonable suspicion"? This is America and being black is reasonable suspicion.
Kaleva
(36,342 posts)then I don't see how they had the right to go there armed and threaten to shoot the couple unless they left.
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)have the SYG laws and from the crappy way the laws were written, it is defensible that you can shoot someone for "breaking" into someone else house or even a car on the street.
They are horribly written.
obamanut2012
(26,137 posts)That's not even a Castle Doctrine-type law. Those type laws would have protected the owners in this case, not their Dirty Harry neighbors.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)blueamy66
(6,795 posts)Who has the time and effort to watch a house, with their gun cocked, ready to take the law into their own hands?
get a life
MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)MattBaggins
(7,904 posts)the neighbors had the right to do this.
"Reasonable suspicion" is all they have to claim to trespass on a neighbors property and shoot some one they think is there to burgle. They saw black people in a white neighborhood and that's good enough. If the black couple had been armed as well and shot people approaching them with weapons drawn and pointed at them; I am certain they would have been in jail if they had fired on the white people.
robinlynne
(15,481 posts)that....
newspeak
(4,847 posts)was call their RE agent or the RE office. Instead, they humiliated them by handcuffing them and taking them to jail.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)I am glad I didn't read about two new home owners that were shot dead by neighbors and noone knew why. I doubt that SYG, would be appropriate here. No one forces a neighbor to confront a possibly dangerous person, with or without a gun. The burden of proof I would think would be on the shooter if they shot even a burglar if that burglar was unarmed. Where is the threat to life and limb. In any case they sheriff it seems should have access to home sales records so this is kind of weird.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)Also, the way these SYG laws are written, it seems the shooter only needs to claim they felt threatened - whether there was a threat or not.
It makes anyone with a gun judge, jury and unfortunately, executioner.
Welcome to the 1870's, NRA-style.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)'Unfortunately, deadly force had to applied to prevent the two trespassers in the neighborhood attempting to change the locks on the house. The shooting began when alert neighbors confronted the pair, who claimed to be the homeowners and tried to escape. Shots were fired and the bodies of the unknown perpertrators atttempting to loot the residence have been sent to the county morgue awaiting news of missing persons reports to identify the remains.'
'Dead men tell no tales,' and Trayvon Martin can't tell his side of the story. This could have ended the same way, if the neighbors had been a little more vigilant, or rather vigilante. Thanks ALEC, for promoting laws and paying for media to encourage this kind of behavior.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)Last edited Sun Apr 22, 2012, 04:40 AM - Edit history (1)
It happened in the fall of 1976. Two white male friends of mine got arrested and briefly detained while they were moving boxes of belongs INTO a house they had just rented in La Jolla, CA. Both were undergraduates at UC San Diego.
A neighbor (or maybe more than one) called police because the two looked out of place. Most of the people in the neighborhood were elderly, many had lived in their homes near Windansea Beach since the 1940s or 50s.
The incident will become a treasured memory to be discussed every Thanksgiving.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)So should this couple.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)As long as they can claim they were "acting in good faith," you can't sue them unless you have very deep pockets.
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)There would have been no danger to letting this couple go till the police could have the property records checked, or even call the couple's real estate agent.
This was grossly negligent, IMHO.
slackmaster
(60,567 posts)flvegan
(64,414 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)LaurenG
(24,841 posts)Solomon
(12,319 posts)the house and carried it to God knows where.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)varelse
(4,062 posts)I thought new neighbors were typically welcomed with casseroles and invitations to dinner?
Phentex
(16,334 posts)it's how my neighbor gets the scoop on anyone new on the street.
much better than guns
Ian David
(69,059 posts)"Can I borrow your lawnmower?"
"Well, I don't know--"
"Remember that time you held my wife and I at gunpoint and had us arrested?"
"Okay, you can borrow it."
"Make sure there's gasoline in it."
"Of course."
"My septic tank is backed-up."
"I'll give you the number for my septic tank guy."
"I was thinking you'd just fix it for me yourself."
"I can't do that."
"Remember that time you held my wife and I at gunpoint and had us arrested?"
"I'll need to rent a back hoe."
"That's fine with me, since I'm not paying for it."
"Good point."
barbtries
(28,811 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,087 posts)Last edited Sat Apr 21, 2012, 02:34 PM - Edit history (1)
Demanding sex with the wife, or offering the wife up for sex, in payment of debt is not cool.
ETA: It is particularly inappropriate in this case, given the history of rape and dehumanization of women in the Congo, where the man requesting the sexual services of the neighbor's wife is from.
Ian David
(69,059 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,087 posts)varelse
(4,062 posts)still priceless though
MjolnirTime
(1,800 posts)tclambert
(11,087 posts)This is America. It's in the Constitution or something. Besides, these people talked funny. Ya know, like immigrants. That's another subtraction from their rights. In fact, with all that working against them, I don't think they have the right to legally own property, let alone file a lawsuit. See the Supreme Court decision Cherokee Nation v. Georgia, 1831. That basically established the right of white people with guns to force darker skinned people out of their homes.
coalition_unwilling
(14,180 posts)simply defending the neighborhood from miscegenation.
God, how I sometimes wish Sherman had gone a step further and salted the earth of Georgia and South Carolina.
Baitball Blogger
(46,757 posts)appleannie1
(5,068 posts)weapon or something? This idea of grabbing a gun and going after people is insane. Thank God they did not shoot the new owners of the house.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)Phentex
(16,334 posts)I suspect they will be charged with something. But stranger things have happened!
progressoid
(49,999 posts)"Kalonji, who grew up in the Congo, said the experience brought back painful memories. "
Shame on America.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)America - come for the superpower, stay for that third world feeling!
BlueIris
(29,135 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)The Wizard
(12,547 posts)thinking of buying property in any of the Confederate states should think twice before making a major investment. Wasn't Georgia a penal colony?
obamanut2012
(26,137 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)At least that's what they think.
Initech
(100,102 posts)sendero
(28,552 posts).. to the neighborhood.
paulk
(11,586 posts)I'd be interested to know if it was a white neighborhood and/or if the people with the guns were white (or not black).
anyone know?
Kaleva
(36,342 posts)paulk
(11,586 posts)that seems like a fairly... racist assumption to make.
Kaleva
(36,342 posts)Kablooie
(18,641 posts)If they suspected someone of breaking in they should call 911 and let the police check it out. I think people should go to jail if they use a gun as a vigilante.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)U4ikLefty
(4,012 posts)Serve The Servants
(328 posts)Make the United States so fucking unbearable and dangerous that no one in their right mind would ever want to move here.
Maynar
(769 posts)...
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)because if you're born black or in another part of the world, you cannot be innocent. Ever in your life. In your cradle, you were guilty of something.
If you're not up to something, you have been up to something or you will be up to something, so there is no way you can be considered innocent of anything.
sendero
(28,552 posts).... aiming a gun at someone is ASSAULT.
But of course, the racist cops only enforce the law when it suits them.
obamanut2012
(26,137 posts)They also brandished (felony), held the neighbors there until the deputies arrived (felony), and trespassed (probably misdeamor), and did they actually go INTO the home? If so, then whatever charges over trespassing a home invasion is there.
They also need to have their sidearms seized and, if they have CCWs, have them pulled.
They need to be arrested.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)why do i have feeling if the races were reversed this would have ended differently?
obxhead
(8,434 posts)Eventually their foreclosed home will probably be pimped out and paid off thanks to the welcoming of the neighbors and police.
HipChick
(25,485 posts)Homer Wells
(1,576 posts)Now that's one helluva Welcome Wagon".
Whatever happened to the big basket of fruit???
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Kaleva
(36,342 posts)I was hoping she'd have something posted on her wall giving more info as to what happened that day and since then but she doesn't.
Stories such as this one and about the lady who ran her SUV into a go-cart I find interesting but they are also frustrating as they soon disappear and one is left not knowing the outcome.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Haven't we learned anything from the Zimmerman case?