Despite my best intent. My wife read and watch info about the torture memo that came out today...

[diabeticman]

Those of you may have seen where I wanted to take a break more for my wife's sanity...but right now I could use some help.


My wife's words... paraphrased for the most part:

Basically after everything she heard today she sees now why all these police are basically using such tactics and just doing what they are doing. Basically the federal government/CIA whatever however you want to view it a blueprint for state and local governments.

AND WHY?! WHY was this done? For info? for the "war on terror"? Or let's face it this all was because some freaking Frat boy who never really won either one of the elections that he ran it manage to gain control of the executive branch of this government and needed to basically take out the asshole who who made Bush the first look like an idiot. Or basically Junior needed to one up DAD!

AND yes, a lot of people are going to scream troll when I write this next part but my wife did make this point and it true fact. When Obama took office and liberals expected him to hold the previous administration for the torture we knew about (REPEAT WE KNEW ABOUT) Obama said that "He preferred to look forward and not back wards. NOW he wants to be appalled by this information?

We can't hid from this! THIS was done in the name of EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN!!!

Now we are having protest about police who are doing basically --minor torture compare to what our federal government did--treating our own citizens the way we treated the rest of the world.

Part of me feels like it is Karma kicking us in the ass and well deserved.

People have screamed we can't fire all the police and start over.

We have a government that spends 680 BILLION on "Defense" for this country and we are paying the price for a "well, kept military... it is spilling over into our state and local governments. And before anyone screams look at the military vehicles and and weapons these local and state governments are getting there hands on.

We have basically taught anyone who is Dark skin or from a certain religion or certain region is the enemy... why are we now surprise when that teaching and training of 10 years is being used against our fellow selves.


Again everything is WAY TOO LITTLE being done WAY TOO LATE!!!

Again all this has to do with either an indirect or direct profit monetary and emotionally to certain peoples. Corporations, Uber rich and just in general those who can't even begin to see the gaps that is being caused worldly and domestically.

The two party system is a joke. Too many democrats act like republicans. Money speaks more to politicians on all three levels than humanity, and citizenship does.

Look at this past election and Koch brothers and koch like groups and people giving to local candidates in hopes that can ( and basically did) get foot holds into small local as well as state and federal.

We are extremely shit up a creek.

My wife basically said she doesn't believe or trust anything anymore.

She asked me to apologize to any non-Americans on this board for America's actions on the torture front.

She also says we as Americans must take responsibility for what has been done in our name as a country.

[merrily]

1. I fell for your thread a couple of weeks ago. Fool me once, shame on you.

[diabeticman]

2. HUH?

[newfie11]

9. Ignore the trolls

Their out in force.
I agree with your wife.

[Grey]

3. I'm on board with your wife.

She is right about everything she said.

[vlyons]

4. Oh, did your wife have an epiphany?

suddenly realize our country is run by war-mongers? Better late than never, I guess.

[diabeticman]

10. She figured it was worse than what we had known. but all this info developed into this rant from

yesterday.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

5. A population who believes in nothing is suseptible to someone who will tell you anything....

Thus was born the Tea Party.

Let us know if she starts buying Lipton.

[merrily]

7. According to Mayer of the New Yorker, the Koch's planned the Tea Party in the 1980s.

(Same time they donated to the DLC.)

[Spitfire of ATJ]

18. A lot of these people will give a pittance to claim neutrality....

It's like Exxon giving millions to Republicans and then ten grand to a single dem.

[merrily]

23. I am not sure. They gave as the DLC was getting started. What need did they

have to appear neutral to it then? IMO, they liked the idea of Democrats going rightward and wanted to help it get going.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

24. After the loss of Dukakis the Beltway began the "This is a Center/Right Country" myth....

Democrats were told to cast off their Liberal Base and embrace the fresh crop of Yuppies which were presented as management types. They actually convinced themselves that the old days of FDR and gaining support from the working class were over. They courted Wall Street and management types and thought the winning message is that those places would make more money than under Republicans.

And that is STILL the message Dems use today.

Which is why they FREAK over Warren.

[merrily]

25. My take:

Republican Lincoln helped make Democrats of a lot of proponents of slavery and a lot of conservatives in other respects. (And also helped make African Americans Lincoln Republicans, like MLK, Sr and Senator Brooke of Massachusetts).

Ergo, the Democratic Party had a strong conservative streak from at least Lincoln forward, if not earlier. (Recall, Jefferson, a slave owner, is considered the father of the Party.)

Wallace and Thurmond are 20th Century examples of "Lincoln Democrats." (My little twist on Reagan Democrats.) And a lot of them began turning Republican after integration measures by FDR and Truman. The Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act, of course, began a more massive exodus.

Meanwhile, the strong conservative streak of the Democratic Party had always been struggling for more control of the Party. Wallace and Thurmond are examples of some old timers who were "Lincoln Democrats." (My little twist on Reagan Democrats.) And a lot of them began turning on the Democratic Party after integration measures by FDR and Truman. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 began a more massive exodus. It tried to move after McGovern lost, to institute super delegates and, in general, make the party less democratic. However, all it succeed in doing then officially was undoing the Democratic Party reforms that McGovern instituted. Still, it kept trying.

With Lee Atwater's help, Reagan used a lot of dog whistles as his Southern strategy. After "Reagan Democrats" and Mondale's loss, they did succeed in instituting Super Delegates, thereby making the Party less democratic. (A fair number of years later, the Republicans followed suit, but Democrats were by far the first to try to put mechanisms in place to overrule the outcomes of their own primaries, as I said, all the way back to McGovern.) (I think Lee Atwater's South

And that is about the time the DLC officially formed. If you look at the wiki of the DLC, you see the founding members were mostly white Southern males with Presidential aspirations, like Bubba, Gore and Warner, the most notable exceptions being Lieberman and Hillary.

The founding members didn't all end up running for President, but, at that time, all were considered to have that potential. And they wanted the Southern vote when they ran, especially their own states (which Gore could not carry, even with the New Democrat business). Or, maybe being raised in the South among conservatives, some of them did have a genuine fiscally conservative streak, too, quite apart from their personal ambitions. Either way, as I see it, that is how we got to the DLC and "pragmatic" Democrats, aka New Democrats.

I strongly agree with you about the yuppies. That crowd and their followers are the ones trying to tell us it's all about winning elections and only about winning elections. But I don't believe them. I think they share a lot of fiscal goals with the Republicans, but not the social goals. That simple.

Geez, maybe I should make this an OP somewhere

[Spitfire of ATJ]

26. "Geez, maybe I should make this an OP somewhere "

If you do, include this video.

Kinda fits in a weird way.

[merrily]

27. No promises, either as to posting an OP or as to the video if I do, except:

If I do decide to do an OP, I will watch what looks as though it may be a disturbing video before writing the OP. That's as far as I am willing to go at this hour!

As always, thanks for the convo.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

29. Trust me, that video is classic DLC.

[merrily]

30. It looked like animal cruelty and I don't have a strong stomach. But I do trust you.

I will watch it, even if I don't make an OP of my earlier post (which I added to my journal). Not tonight, though. Have a good rest.

[diabeticman]

11. If you are the same person who had been on the Mike Malloy board then UNN I

would expect better than that type of remark.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

16. Hell, that's the kind of thing Mike would say,....in jest.

[diabeticman]

17. sorry wasn't fully awake when I read it

[Spitfire of ATJ]

19. I'm on my first cup of coffee too....

Nuthin' like getting hit with jury service first thing.

[Curtis]

6. It's all in the plan

Repubs won congress this year so a spectacle of politics could be made of the whole thing. Democrats, we'll a lot of them, will be calling for prosecution while Republicans will be saying we can't prosecute patriots. MSNBC and Fox played their roles well today starting it down that road.

Hint. The CIA had this planned as the perfect getaway

[merrily]

8. They plan well, don't they?

Reagan raises taxes. Dems don't much care and Republicans sit on it because he is one of theirs. Bubba ends "welfare as we know it." Republicans are thrilled and Democrats sit on it because he is one of theirs. And so on. And so on.

[Curtis]

20. Yes they do

My father was in the Air Force for 20 years and did some CIA stuff during Vietnam. The secrets he kept ate him up. He never trusted the government because of what he knew.

Yes, our government and CIA manipulate the hell out of us.

[merrily]

28. And, he probably knew only a fraction.

I have to laugh at posters who act as though they expect us to take every word politicians and government officials say publicly as gospel. And, those who don't take every self serving word at face value, the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth get labeled loony conspiracy theorists.

Hello, the head of the CIA lying to Congress under oath and on national TV is not exactly a conspiracy, but it sure as hell is evidence that government lies to us. Those who yell "conspiracy theorist" at every turn plan well, too.

Thanks for the info Curtis, and I am so sorry about your Dad's grief. I guess that was his "reward" for 20 years of military service.

[99Forever]

12. Your wife is correct.

There is no representation for anyone that doesn't belong to "The Big Club." (thank you Mr Carlin)

The cops have become nothing than well armed common gangsters with badges, protecting the vested interests of the chosen few. Torturing murderers can not only do as they please without repercussions, but are actually left to ply their evil on the public airways and amass huge fortunes doing so. Yet those who PROMISED to do the bidding of We the People, turn a dear ear to us once again.

Absolute power has corrupted absolutely.

The shitstorm cometh.

[Sunlei]

14. Theres not going to be a 'shitstorm'. The USA is a segregated, divided country.

Any 'public' protests are to small and quickly result in arrests, injuries and fines.

Our general public can't even organize the required sigs on the white house petition website these days.

[99Forever]

21. You keep right on telling yourself that.

[Sunlei]

13. must have been much worse then even what was 'officially reported'.

No wonder many of our police/prison guards are so violent and desensitized to the suffering of people under their 'care'. Many of them are Vets, How many of those Vets shoved a naked man in a box for a few weeks & heard him, watched him starve/dehydrate because they were 'just doing their job.'

We should rip that trillion in profits right out of 'for profit' contractors banks! Shut down the majority of the CIA.

[Bluenorthwest]

15. Good for her, she is right to connect the out of control police with the permissions they have been

given by the torture culture. If the top law enforcement agencies can lie under oath to Congress and no one cares, then you should expect cops to do the same, if the top agents can kidnap, torture and kill then you should expect the cops to do the same and frankly I don't understand how people did not figure this out already.

[Javaman]

22. we are living in the era of corporate colonization.

fascism for the minorities

corporate serfdom for the whites

and...

freedom for the 1%