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RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:14 AM Dec 2014

Harry Reid(D) blocked the critical amend to strip Citigroup rider from Cromnibus

Elizabeth Warren, David Vitter Make Last-Minute Press Against Reid On 'Wall Street Giveaway'
12/15/14

The amendment forces Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) to choose between holding a vote to strip out controversial changes to Dodd-Frank in the House-passed omnibus, or anger the progressive wing of his caucus. Reid had already signed off on the funding bill in its current form, and the White House has also backed the measure and urged its passage.

..."Wall Street has been working behind the scenes to open another loophole so they could gamble with taxpayer money and get bailed out when their risky bets threaten to blow up our financial system," said Warren. "This giveaway that was drafted by Citigroup lobbyists has no place in a critical government funding bill."

"Before Congress starts handing out Christmas presents to the megabanks and Wall Street, we should vote on this bipartisan amendment," Vitter said. "We need to remove these risky derivatives that aren't even necessary for normal banking purposes and would only make future taxpayer funded bailouts more likely."

Reid is unlikely to allow a vote on the amendment during a crowded Senate schedule. The spending bill, including the Wall Street subsidy, is expected to pass by a wide margin.

UPDATE: 6:20 p.m. -- Reid filed cloture on the omnibus and "filled the tree," a procedural maneuver that bars everyone from offering amendments. In other words, Warren and Vitter's amendment has no chance of being added to the spending bill.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/12/elizabeth-warren-david-vitter-wall-street_n_6317098.html
177 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Harry Reid(D) blocked the critical amend to strip Citigroup rider from Cromnibus (Original Post) RiverLover Dec 2014 OP
Better believe it!!...nt SidDithers Dec 2014 #1
Encore performance. nt Bobbie Jo Dec 2014 #12
Here ya go, Sid.. Cha Dec 2014 #28
Wow. Facing reality and wanting to change things for the better for RiverLover Dec 2014 #32
I didn't say you did alert on Sid.. someone did.. and the majority on the jury thought it was shite. Cha Dec 2014 #33
I wanted people to know I didn't alert, b/c I didn't know Sid's post was a call to MIRT RiverLover Dec 2014 #34
You better believe it. Zorra Dec 2014 #95
+1 Marr Dec 2014 #134
Don't feel bad, he looks like one to me too. beerandjesus Dec 2014 #37
Yes. That must be it. RiverLover Dec 2014 #84
Not that I've ever seen. Marr Dec 2014 #137
Reality, like Republicans in office? treestar Dec 2014 #68
Makes me so proud! Not! djean111 Dec 2014 #2
I was sure the amendment died in the senate due to rethugs...but no. RiverLover Dec 2014 #3
Oh, but, we need to vote in more and more of them, and they will magically change into real djean111 Dec 2014 #4
LOL RiverLover Dec 2014 #5
Are you advocating that voters not vote for Democrats?... SidDithers Dec 2014 #7
Didn't sound like it to me. Sounded like we should be voting for FDR Dems, not Turd Way. Scuba Dec 2014 #14
+1 Enthusiast Dec 2014 #39
Quit blaming these Dems treestar Dec 2014 #92
Dems need to act like FDR Dems instead of Republican-lite if they want to win. Scuba Dec 2014 #101
Elizabeth Warren's successes and popularity should be an example to them. Cleita Dec 2014 #155
Right. appalachiablue Dec 2014 #154
Do you vote for Democrats, Sid? n/t QC Dec 2014 #26
Not in Canada he doesn't hobbit709 Dec 2014 #31
Are politics really that boring in Puglover Dec 2014 #38
How has party over principles been pocoloco Dec 2014 #30
It's keeping Canada ahead of the US in health, education, and welfare for the middleclass and poor. adirondacker Dec 2014 #44
Canada must have some principled politicians and parties. Unlike the politicians and the party here. Autumn Dec 2014 #70
Right? I don't recall Canadians being forced out of their homes due to crippling medical debt, adirondacker Dec 2014 #79
that's ok DonCoquixote Dec 2014 #132
! We'll have to remind Sid how great private health insurance is. adirondacker Dec 2014 #139
It's not like the left there can unite to vote him out, JoeyT Dec 2014 #167
Are you advocating we 840high Dec 2014 #129
You can tell where I stand. Sissyk Dec 2014 #130
Thanks, Sissy... SidDithers Dec 2014 #136
LOL Bobbie Jo Dec 2014 #161
since when are xenophobic dumbfucks considered to be liberals ? JI7 Dec 2014 #165
I am in LOVE with Juror #2 Number23 Dec 2014 #166
Did you read Ted Cruz's comment on that from the right's prospective? 7962 Dec 2014 #153
Yeah! Democrats should have allowed the amendment ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #6
Oh, please - honestly, I know that what Obama and Jamie Dimon want, Obama and Jamie Dimon get. djean111 Dec 2014 #10
Come on. Dodd-Frank was outdated legislation think Dec 2014 #35
And the Fairness Doctrine. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #40
And the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. beerandjesus Dec 2014 #87
+1! Enthusiast Dec 2014 #152
And where do the DU heros ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #47
No, the amendment would not have delayed the bill passing or shut the govt down RiverLover Dec 2014 #13
Yes it would have ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #48
I'm not so sure it would have kept the Democratic votes... adirondacker Dec 2014 #116
You can't know that pscot Dec 2014 #168
Amending the bill requires it to go back to the House. jeff47 Dec 2014 #169
You seem to forget that the Republican's masters don't want a shutdown. Scuba Dec 2014 #15
No, I haven't forgotten that ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #49
At least then, when things turned to shit, we could blame the Republicans. Now Dems get the blame. Scuba Dec 2014 #50
"Blaming the republicans" ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #62
It's not an either-or. We got the bad bill and the blame, remember? Scuba Dec 2014 #63
The blame is coming from myopic folks on the left ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #71
The blaming hasn't started yet. Wait 'til the next banking disaster. Shouldn't take long. Scuba Dec 2014 #75
The next (spending bill related) banking disaster ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #77
Didn't Harry Reid just kill that opportunity? Scuba Dec 2014 #85
No, he didn't ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #88
You're referring to a bill that might be considered in the future. I'm talking about the .... Scuba Dec 2014 #100
I, rather, like the fact that government ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #103
Not surprised that you're OK with deregulating derivatives and more anonymous money in elections. Scuba Dec 2014 #106
+100. The new Democrats. NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #108
Where did I see any of that? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #175
That bill also does these things ... wavesofeuphoria Dec 2014 #43
Yes, it does ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #51
Seriously?? So the way this works is ... wavesofeuphoria Dec 2014 #60
Yes, seriously ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #64
What? " they voted for a must pass spending bill that had these things buried in it." rhett o rick Dec 2014 #171
Not that they ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #174
"None of which can't be reversed through individual legislation, right?" OnyxCollie Dec 2014 #125
We can't? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #126
Who's "we?" OnyxCollie Dec 2014 #131
Cowardly capitulators, like ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #135
None of those add up to a majority. OnyxCollie Dec 2014 #138
It only takes one ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #143
x10000000000! Also gotta add the increased indiv Campaign donation$ the wealthy can use to RiverLover Dec 2014 #82
Yep ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #151
God, look how much of that is done for the cost of FOUR fighter aircraft we don't even need. Marr Dec 2014 #140
I completely agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #150
So we are the powerless party then. zeemike Dec 2014 #45
No ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #58
We have been acting strategically now for decades zeemike Dec 2014 #72
What have we "lost" ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #76
Oh come on now...we lost the election. zeemike Dec 2014 #81
Yeah, okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #86
And yet the GOP appears strong and gets what they want. zeemike Dec 2014 #102
Is that all DU is concerned with ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #105
Why?...because it is yet another excuse. zeemike Dec 2014 #111
Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #113
I have addressed it before. zeemike Dec 2014 #115
Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #118
Nice Straw Man you got there, lol Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #109
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #112
So what is it when you say... Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #114
No ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #117
You are absolutely correct. yallerdawg Dec 2014 #121
Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #122
Took me awhile... Colorado Liberal Dec 2014 #158
Nope, not at all ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #159
Interesting facts. The Progressive Caucus is the largest caucus within the Democratic Caucus in the Bluenorthwest Dec 2014 #170
I didn't know Warren isn'tamember of the P/C. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #173
What is this "strategy" Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #141
What is protected? ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #145
+10000000 nt MsLeopard Dec 2014 #65
Bang on JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #146
+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #156
Thanks for nothing, Reid deutsey Dec 2014 #8
Really? blackspade Dec 2014 #9
Now tell me again the difference between Wing D and Wing R of the Corporate Party? hobbit709 Dec 2014 #11
Wing D is OK with gay marriage. Scuba Dec 2014 #16
The hook. nt RiverLover Dec 2014 #21
Wing D has been infiltrated - TBF Dec 2014 #24
figures heaven05 Dec 2014 #17
Thank goodness he's keeping his powder dry. Orrex Dec 2014 #18
Reid barely got re-elected last time around Omaha Steve Dec 2014 #19
For some dark comedy, here's Jon Stewart's take on the Cromnibus~ RiverLover Dec 2014 #20
The Public can't have sparkle farting ponies... Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #22
Great point Cosmic Kitten. I think I will bring that up the next time someone tries that line on me. liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #46
If Reid had allowed Warren's and Vitter's amendment... Archae Dec 2014 #23
They vote on amendments. Reid knew the amendment to take out the Citi rider would pass. nt RiverLover Dec 2014 #25
Got to love backstabbers. 99Forever Dec 2014 #27
with friends like Reid and Obama, who needs republicans? Doctor_J Dec 2014 #29
Things have reached the point sulphurdunn Dec 2014 #36
That's why I'd rather have the guys with the knives in front of me. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Dec 2014 #69
With the Billionaires Thespian2 Dec 2014 #41
Congress can't get anything because they are always on their knees servicing Wall Street... whereisjustice Dec 2014 #42
See the paid-off local bottom feeders Maedhros Dec 2014 #119
Please explain to me again how voting helps librechik Dec 2014 #52
This is all the fault of the liberals who didn't vote!!1!11! Doctor_J Dec 2014 #53
exactly. librechik Dec 2014 #56
They wonder turbinetree Dec 2014 #54
Reid has one role. dirtydickcheney Dec 2014 #55
I wonder when/how this risk will be bailed out. Anyone want to start the clock? midnight Dec 2014 #57
Reid is a POS excuse for a human being. GoneFishin Dec 2014 #59
I've never been one of those doomsdayers who invested in gold, but this bill guarantees liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #61
Merry Fucking Christmas everyone! Oilwellian Dec 2014 #66
Elections have consequences treestar Dec 2014 #67
LOL Oilwellian Dec 2014 #73
Republicans have to sign on or they will shut the government down treestar Dec 2014 #89
Does anyone believe this crap anymore? NewDeal_Dem Dec 2014 #110
Only temporarily ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #74
Yes, and Pelosi is out of luck, being outnumbered by Republicans treestar Dec 2014 #90
I disagree ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #98
And Republican committee chairs are going to let this bill move? Comrade Grumpy Dec 2014 #123
That depends on how loudly Democrats ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #124
I think people are confusing what happened in the senate with what happened in the house. RiverLover Dec 2014 #80
The Republicans would have just filibustered treestar Dec 2014 #91
And next term ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #160
Not exactly ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #94
Guess we'll see won't we? nt RiverLover Dec 2014 #96
Maybe ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #99
You just seem to be for Wall Street dems here, so when you ask if I'll join you on this, RiverLover Dec 2014 #104
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2014 #107
He's probably not running in 2016 and needs a job when he leaves the Senate..nt joeybee12 Dec 2014 #78
He can't just add one amendment. Calista241 Dec 2014 #83
Then why have a senate if they are there to just pass everything sent to them by the house RiverLover Dec 2014 #93
Who exactly is this "WE"? Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #97
I, for one, happen to like the ACA and the EPA. Calista241 Dec 2014 #149
Think of it this way... Calista241 Dec 2014 #157
Citigroup's power...graph madfloridian Dec 2014 #120
Thanks madfloridian! RiverLover Dec 2014 #127
Why don't they just Aerows Dec 2014 #128
This message was self-deleted by its author pa28 Dec 2014 #133
We already know who's side he's on. CrispyQ Dec 2014 #142
Any doubt left as to where. ... 99Forever Dec 2014 #144
One corporate party, two faces. polichick Dec 2014 #147
DC is a racket blkmusclmachine Dec 2014 #148
And rackets are run by CRIMINALS. DeSwiss Dec 2014 #163
This is a bullshit criticism. Amending the bill meant a government shutdown. tritsofme Dec 2014 #162
GOTV! frylock Dec 2014 #164
why cant Elizabeth Warren santroy79 Dec 2014 #172
Imo we should have shined a bright light on the issue of the inclusion of that giveaway Babel_17 Dec 2014 #176
The attempt to blame liberals for this bill and then the attempt to blame liberals if the djean111 Dec 2014 #177

Cha

(297,323 posts)
28. Here ya go, Sid..
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 09:23 AM
Dec 2014

Accusing a fellow DUer of being a banned disruptor is a personal attack. Following a fellow DUer from one end of this place to the other and accusing him or her of being a banned disruptor is stalking. These things make DU suck.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Dec 18, 2014, 07:17 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Get a grip, alerter.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I agree with two things. That Sid is likely following the poster for mirt and that the poster may be a returning member. Since the admins will see this they can look into the op and settle the question. Also the op has a bad habbit of using right wing sources to attack Hillary so that makes he or she suspicious to me. Having worked with Sid on mirt I can tell you that he is usually right about these things.

Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It's getting old and tiresome to see this comment.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Sid's not accusing anyone of anything. Plus, when sid doesn't accuse someone of something - like he's not doing here- he's usually right about it.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Yeah, a lot of things are getting "old and tiresome" on DU.. don't see me Alerting on them.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
32. Wow. Facing reality and wanting to change things for the better for
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 09:28 AM
Dec 2014

our party & our country is really frowned upon here.

Who would've thunk it? I'm truly surprised & gobsmacked.



Btw, I didn't alert on Sid's post. I didn't even know what it meant. But I always thought he was a troll. Ha! Go figure.

Cha

(297,323 posts)
33. I didn't say you did alert on Sid.. someone did.. and the majority on the jury thought it was shite.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 09:36 AM
Dec 2014

Don't be a victim.. no one I know is against changing things for the better.

And, you calling Sid a "troll" just shows you don't know what you're talking about.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
34. I wanted people to know I didn't alert, b/c I didn't know Sid's post was a call to MIRT
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 09:44 AM
Dec 2014

to have me kicked off of DU. I'm shocked.

But thanks very much to whoever did realize that & alerted. You tried.

See ya!

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
95. You better believe it.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:13 PM
Dec 2014

It's just what they do.

Third Way, Elizabeth Warren, And The Real Battle In Our Party

However, this isn't really mainly a battle between progressives and "centrists" for the soul of the Democratic party, although there is certainly an element of that, and it is certainly understandable for reporters to talk about it in those traditional political battle terms. But what this is more fundamentally about is a battle between the biggest special interest corporations in the world, who tend to have overwhelming sway over everything in Washington, and those of us who want to confront and rein in their power.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025928334


The swarm that immediately greeted your OP could not be more obvious in their intentions. It's almost like they expected it, and were waiting for it.

Your OP is factual, and counter to the Third Way agenda, so they attacked you personally. For the Third Way, facts and truth don't matter. All that matters to the Third Way is pushing the fascist corporate agenda by any means necessary.



beerandjesus

(1,301 posts)
37. Don't feel bad, he looks like one to me too.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 09:58 AM
Dec 2014

Sid must have done some great stuff here in the past, cuz the quality of posts that I see on here certainly wouldn't elicit the respect he seems to get from the old-timers. I think I've seen one where he actually contributed to a discussion; usually he's just trolling liberals. I figure it's a piece of DU history I'm just not hip to, which is fine.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
137. Not that I've ever seen.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:48 PM
Dec 2014

I've been posting here since 2000 or 2001, though my name was different then (lost my login at some point). I think you've pretty much seen the sum total of his contribution, if my own experience has captured it.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
3. I was sure the amendment died in the senate due to rethugs...but no.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:28 AM
Dec 2014

It was our lovely wall street dems again.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
4. Oh, but, we need to vote in more and more of them, and they will magically change into real
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:36 AM
Dec 2014

Democrats! And be better than the GOP! Now, THAT is the real clapping for Tinkerbell.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
7. Are you advocating that voters not vote for Democrats?...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:44 AM
Dec 2014

'Cause it sure sounds like that's what you're suggesting.

Sid

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
155. Elizabeth Warren's successes and popularity should be an example to them.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:32 PM
Dec 2014

However, then they wouldn't be insiders with whatever perks that implies. Frankly, it's not worthy selling one's soul to Wall Street Satan IMHO.

adirondacker

(2,921 posts)
44. It's keeping Canada ahead of the US in health, education, and welfare for the middleclass and poor.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 10:40 AM
Dec 2014

Last edited Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:54 AM - Edit history (1)

Autumn

(45,109 posts)
70. Canada must have some principled politicians and parties. Unlike the politicians and the party here.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:35 AM
Dec 2014

You better believe that. If our Canadian brothers and Sisters had to put up with the shit our politicians like good old Harry are so fond of pulling and then offering those brazen silly excuses and expecting that we vote for them since they don't suck quite as bad as the other side does they might not be as happy with our politicians as they are. Well at least one of them.

adirondacker

(2,921 posts)
79. Right? I don't recall Canadians being forced out of their homes due to crippling medical debt,
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:47 AM
Dec 2014

underwater mortgages and homeless families with starving children on the streets.

It MUST be their support of the banking industry!

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
132. that's ok
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:31 PM
Dec 2014

a few more years of harper and his Keystone pipeline, and Canada will be Northern Texas . Not like the left there can unite to vote him out, because le Bloc Quebecois would rather join the EU than Canada

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
167. It's not like the left there can unite to vote him out,
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 07:42 PM
Dec 2014

because all the Canadian liberals are too busy hanging out on the internet making sure people are sufficiently reverential toward a certain American politician.

Sissyk

(12,665 posts)
130. You can tell where I stand.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:28 PM
Dec 2014

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:18 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Are you advocating that voters not vote for Democrats?...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5976084

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This poster is constantly harassing liberal democrats on this board but is not even a Democratic citizen of the United States. Why is he allowed to criticize and harass American Democrats? This post is disruptive and inappropriate given this poster should not even be allowed to interfere in American politics.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:24 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Why is he allowed to engage in free speech and call "liberal democrats" who prefer republicans on their shit? I wish you all would fuck off to Free Republic where you belong. There is NOTHING liberal about any of you people who work to put the GOP in office.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Hardly alert worthy.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Huh?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It is alerts like this that are giving the jury system a bad name. Very very bogus alerts like this one make members leave some post that shiould be hidden. This is what makes DU suck. -Sissyk
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Bobbie Jo

(14,341 posts)
161. LOL
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 05:04 PM
Dec 2014

Last edited Fri Dec 19, 2014, 10:25 AM - Edit history (1)

"....this poster should not even be allowed to interfere in American politics."


Well that certainly narrows down the alerter pool, doesn't it? Good grief, people.



Number23

(24,544 posts)
166. I am in LOVE with Juror #2
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 07:14 PM
Dec 2014

Though you rock as well.

I am always so mystified by those who pile onto Sid and always, ALWAYS bring up that he's from Canada. Some of the most unhinged anti Obama posters here have LOUDLY proclaimed that they live in other countries, and some of the loudest, dumbest members of that crew seem to forget that they are too are non-Americans or Americans living in other parts of the world. If their opinions are welcome here, why not Sid's or anyone else's?

So this whole "Sid's CANDADIAN!1!one" thing is not only incredibly stupid it's also dishonest and hypocritical too. That jury did the right thing. Serious props.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
153. Did you read Ted Cruz's comment on that from the right's prospective?
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:31 PM
Dec 2014

He said, to paraphrase, "If we run to the middle again and nominate a McCain or Romney and millions of conservative voters stay home again, we'll end up with President Hillary Clinton. And that would be a disaster". Reverse the R & D and the end result is the same.
He's admitting that the far right of the party would rather STAY HOME than vote for someone they consider a "moderate". Which in turn, helped elect Obama twice. So are they happier than if Romney would've won? Are they that stupid? I guess so.
So the reverse of that would be the question here; would one stay home and NOT vote for someone viewed as "not progressive enough" and help elect Bush #3?
The stupidity if that is pretty high, to me.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
6. Yeah! Democrats should have allowed the amendment ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:43 AM
Dec 2014

that would have guaranteed that the bill would have failed. That way government would have shut down, cutting off funds to the government programs that feeds, shelter and clothes folks ... even if the program interruption is for only the "one or two weeks (of) inconvenience" (as one DUer put it), before congress passes a stop-gap that expires in late January/early February, when the republicans have control of both houses of Congress ... when they could/would write a spending bill that has everything we hate and much, much more.

Yeah, that's what should have happened because .... MUST ... SHOW ... STRENGTH!

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
10. Oh, please - honestly, I know that what Obama and Jamie Dimon want, Obama and Jamie Dimon get.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:49 AM
Dec 2014

I would accept your little homily, if I didn't know that Dimon was actually personally whipping votes.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
47. And where do the DU heros ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 10:59 AM
Dec 2014

Warren and Sanders come in? Regardless of who was whipping the votes, which Democrats would vote against legislation that re-establish the push back rule (and/or other single pieces of legislation that removes the other stuff) we don't like?

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
13. No, the amendment would not have delayed the bill passing or shut the govt down
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:52 AM
Dec 2014

It just would have removed the Citigroup rider which Citi wrote for itself & the other banks & it lets them play hockey with derivatives again, insured by taxpayer $$$,

This was an amendment in the senate. It wouldn't have shut the govt down.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
48. Yes it would have ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:01 AM
Dec 2014

the spending bill would not have passed without a coalition of republican AND Democratic votes. The amendment would have kept the Democratic votes, but lost republican votes.

pscot

(21,024 posts)
168. You can't know that
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:25 PM
Dec 2014

Preemptive capitulation has fed Republican ambitions right from the gittgo. Obama reminds me of Hubert Humphrey. Humphrey was a better Liberal than Obama, but LBJ said if Hubert had been born a woman he'd have been pregnant all the time because he just couldn't say no.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
169. Amending the bill requires it to go back to the House.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:52 PM
Dec 2014

Taking out the Citigroup rider would require the bill to go back to the House for another vote.

Even if you could get the bill through the full Senate, you'd have a hard time getting it through the House. Assuming Captain Orange allowed a vote.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
49. No, I haven't forgotten that ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:06 AM
Dec 2014

if the spending bill had failed, there would have been a stop-gap bill ... that would have expired in late January/early February, right?

Then what?

Do you think that, with control of both houses of Congress, the republicans would not have included all the stuff we hate about the spending bill, on top of defunding the ACA and immigration reform?

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
50. At least then, when things turned to shit, we could blame the Republicans. Now Dems get the blame.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:08 AM
Dec 2014

Oh, and does the President still have veto power, or was does that only apply when Republicans hold the White House?

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
62. "Blaming the republicans" ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:23 AM
Dec 2014

is that more important to you than acting to secure funding for the ACA through September 2015, and putting Democrats in the top seat when it comes to immigration reform (i.e., no immigration reform, no funding for DHS)?

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
71. The blame is coming from myopic folks on the left ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:36 AM
Dec 2014

I have noticed that everyone "debating/arguing" with me on this are studiously avoiding answering this:

as the next move:

Democrats take advantage of the swell of republican/conservative/teaparty opposition to the derivative push-out roll-back and write individual legislation re-establishing the rule (and removing all the other horrible stuff the spending bill contains; but could only pass as part of the must pass spending bill. All (most) Democrats (and a significant number of republicans) will support the individual legislation, as who, without the cover/lack of transparency of the spending bill, will come out against it?


Other than to rehash the travesty that is the spending bill ... or simply state it won't happen.

The former is resting in yesterday ... The latter indicates people have no faith that Warren, Sanders, Pelosi and the rest of the Progressive Caucus can/would write the individual pieces of legislation.
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
77. The next (spending bill related) banking disaster ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:44 AM
Dec 2014

can be avoid, if/when Warren, Sanders, Pelosi and/or the Progressive Caucus writes the individual legislation to reverse the stuff we don't like. Right?

Who would vote against the individual pieces of legislation?

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
88. No, he didn't ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:06 PM
Dec 2014

Why don't you address this:

(Posted earlier and tired of typing and re-typing it) (A)s the next move:

Democrats take advantage of the swell of republican/conservative/teaparty opposition to the derivative push-out roll-back and write individual legislation re-establishing the rule (and removing all the other horrible stuff the spending bill contains; but could only pass as part of the must pass spending bill. All (most) Democrats (and a significant number of republicans) will support the individual legislation, as who, without the cover/lack of transparency of the spending bill, will come out against it?


I assume you have already read it; but, are just choosing to ignore it.
 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
100. You're referring to a bill that might be considered in the future. I'm talking about the ....
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:33 PM
Dec 2014

... horrible bill that was already passed and the President says he will sign into law, and about the correction that Harry Reid already killed.

Yes, there are in infinite number of opportunities to do better in the future, but for now we have further deregulated banking and allowed even more anonymous money in our elections. Democrats had a chance to say "No" but allowed the Republicans to use their idle threat of shutdown to act as cover.

Perhaps you'll get back to me when a bill correcting these abuses has passed.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
103. I, rather, like the fact that government ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:40 PM
Dec 2014

is funded through September of 2015 and the top position the spending bill puts Democrats with respect to immigration.

Now, perhaps you'll join me in contacting Warren, Sanders, Pelosi and/or the rest of the Progressive Caucus to implore them to do their jobs!

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
106. Not surprised that you're OK with deregulating derivatives and more anonymous money in elections.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:46 PM
Dec 2014

wavesofeuphoria

(525 posts)
43. That bill also does these things ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 10:21 AM
Dec 2014

One measure allows private companies to cut pension payments, affecting potentially millions of workers.

The bill slices $300 million from Pell Grants, which help cover college tuition for some of America’s poorest students, including two-thirds of all black and half of Latino undergraduates.

The Pentagon will get four fighter jets it didn’t ask for, to the tune of $479 million.

The bill dismantles labor protections for truck drivers (and endangers public safety) by repealing part of a 2011 Department of Transportation rule requiring adequate rest for drivers.

The nutrition program for Women, Infants and Children will lose $93 million.

Cuts to the Environmental Protection Agency’s budget will force the agency to shrink its staff to its lowest level in twenty-five years.

The bill also slashes funding for energy efficiency and renewable energy by 16 percent, while allocating a full 20 percent more money for fossil-fuel development than the White House requested.

http://www.thenation.com/blog/192785/spending-bills-wall-street-giveaway-bad-thats-not-all#

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
51. Yes, it does ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:10 AM
Dec 2014

None of which can't be reversed through individual legislation, right?

Name one Democrat that would go on the record voting AGAINST individual bills that reverse the above ... well, except, maybe, the slashing of funding for energy efficiency and renewable energy?

wavesofeuphoria

(525 posts)
60. Seriously?? So the way this works is ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:21 AM
Dec 2014

you let all this crap go through and expect that the democrats are going to introduce legislation to reverse these?

Introduce and fight for legislation .. right?

But not fight now, before this bill is passed/voted on?

That's insanity.

Besides ... who cares if they would go on record voting against bills that reverse the above ... they've already voted on record FOR them here!!!


 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
64. Yes, seriously ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:27 AM
Dec 2014

That's where Warren, Sanders, Pelosi, and the rest of the Progressive Caucus comes in.

Besides ... who cares if they would go on record voting against bills that reverse the above ... they've already voted on record FOR them here!!!


No ... they voted for a must pass spending bill that had these things buried in it. Again, who would go on record voting against bills that reverse these things?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
171. What? " they voted for a must pass spending bill that had these things buried in it."
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:55 PM
Dec 2014

I don't think "they" (Warren and Sanders, not sure about Pelosi) voted for this bill as you state. I go with Sen Sanders and Sen Warren.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
174. Not that they ...
Fri Dec 19, 2014, 08:22 AM
Dec 2014

the they we were talking about are them (i.e., Democrats that voted for the Spending bill).

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
125. "None of which can't be reversed through individual legislation, right?"
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:16 PM
Dec 2014

We'll fix it later! LOL!



Oh, that one never gets old...

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
131. Who's "we?"
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:29 PM
Dec 2014

The cowardly capitulators in Congress?

Man, you're on a roll!

Still waiting on Dems to fix the 2008 FISA Amendments (which would have sunset and returned to pre-Bush status, and all Harry Reid had to do was NOTHING, but no, he brought the bill up for a vote and here we are. Thanks, Harry!)

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
143. It only takes one ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:03 PM
Dec 2014

to write the legislation. Name one Democrat that would vote against a bill to re-establish the push out rule, or the pension raiding provisions, or the defunding of the PELL program, or WIC, or any of the other provisions in the Speeding Bill, without the must pass cover of the Spending Bill.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
82. x10000000000! Also gotta add the increased indiv Campaign donation$ the wealthy can use to
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:52 AM
Dec 2014

further purchase our "reps" votes & actions.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
45. So we are the powerless party then.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 10:44 AM
Dec 2014

Even when we have control we don't have control and dare not object or speak up or "show strength"
It amazes me how truly weak we are both spiritually and actualy...and we are told it is fate, and there is nothing we dare do about it because the GOP is a scary bunch...while on the right they act and we through up our hands and say "what can we do, we have no power".

What we are witnessing here is the destruction of the Democratic party principles not the party...it will live on as long as the cash flows and the moss grows on the motionless stone.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
58. No ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:19 AM
Dec 2014

We are the party that will soon find ourselves in the minority position. Our power is in acting strategically; rather than, symbolically.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
72. We have been acting strategically now for decades
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:38 AM
Dec 2014

And losing...so that would suggest the strategy is wrong...and it is.
Our strategy is formed out of weakness not strength and they are actors on a stage in the mind of the public, and there is a negative response to weakness...they tune it out and don't vote.

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
81. Oh come on now...we lost the election.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:48 AM
Dec 2014

And may lose the next one if we keep to that strategy of weakness...compromise principles in order to get along with the right who flaunt their power.

And I can point to a bunch we have lost...some of them like our freedom and our privacy and moral standards of humane treatment that blows out of the water anything we have gained.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
86. Yeah, okay ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:02 PM
Dec 2014

Which "freedoms" have we lost under this Administration?

DU is sounding more and more like some right wing site, by the day.

I will grant you that we lost the election ... I will grant, further, that an, arguable, reason for that loss is the American public's penchant for preferring form over substance. But I would far rather suffer being seen as weak and getting some of the things I want done; than, appearing strong, and getting none of the stuff I want done ... or worse, watch the most vulnerable among us hurt (as would happen in the case of a government shut down).

zeemike

(18,998 posts)
102. And yet the GOP appears strong and gets what they want.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:36 PM
Dec 2014

Even with a Senate and the White house in control by the Dems.
And they just passed the spending bill that cuts pensions for retired workers to keep the parks open for them to sleep in I guess...But what they give with one hand does not match up what they take with the other.

But sure, we lost our freedom with the Patriot act...passed by congress with Democratic support...and only a few objected to it...and in 09 we had the white house and congress but did nothing to end the abuses of power or even try to modify it...we stayed silent because we thought we would see change and the caving was just 11 dimensional chess moves...it never happened...Gitmo is still open for business and that travesty has been going on for 6 years under a democratic president...and the list of outrages keeps growing.

But glad you got the things you wanted done...

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
105. Is that all DU is concerned with ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:45 PM
Dec 2014

"appearing strong"?

Why are you avoiding this:

(Posted earlier and tired of typing and re-typing it) (A)s the next move:

Democrats take advantage of the swell of republican/conservative/teaparty opposition to the derivative push-out roll-back and write individual legislation re-establishing the rule (and removing all the other horrible stuff the spending bill contains; but could only pass as part of the must pass spending bill. All (most) Democrats (and a significant number of republicans) will support the individual legislation, as who, without the cover/lack of transparency of the spending bill, will come out against it?


It explains WHY I am glad for what the spending bill did. Now, how about you join me in contacting Warren, Sanders, Pelosi and/or the rest of the Progressive Caucus to implore them to do their jobs!


zeemike

(18,998 posts)
115. I have addressed it before.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 01:13 PM
Dec 2014

The next step is a revolution in the Democratic party to kick out the weak corrupt Dinos...should we dare to take it.
But we will never take it if we just go along to get along with the crazy people in the GOP...being ruled by fear is a weakness in itself.
And the last election shows what people think of it.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
118. Okay ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 01:23 PM
Dec 2014

still haven't address what I have offered as the next step.

But I understand ... it's far more gratifying to fantasize of a "revolution", than risk pressing Warren, Sanders, Pelosi and/or the Progressive Caucus to write the legislation.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
109. Nice Straw Man you got there, lol
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 01:01 PM
Dec 2014
But I would far rather suffer being seen as weak and getting some of the things I want done; than, appearing strong, and getting none of the stuff I want done ...

Because yeah, America LOVES a weak LOSER.

Who wants to vote for the milquetoast 98lb weakling...
who gets to keep his lunch money from the bully... for one day!
lol
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
112. LOL ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 01:04 PM
Dec 2014
Who wants to vote for the milquetoast 98lb weakling...
who gets to keep his lunch money from the bully... for one day!


Are you forgetting ... the milquetoast 98lb weakling gets to eat lunch?

BTW, my post was/is not a straw man argument.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
114. So what is it when you say...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 01:09 PM
Dec 2014
But I would far rather suffer being seen as weak and getting some of the things I want done; than, appearing strong, and getting none of the stuff I want done ...

Those are not the choices, it's a false premise.

Act from weakness, compromise, and pretend
you MIGHT get something better tomorrow.
What do you call that type of logic...
other than "wishful thinking" or subservience?
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
117. No ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 01:19 PM
Dec 2014

strategically protecting what you have (in this case, until September of 2015), is not acting from "weakness". Nor, is stating what one has the ability to do (in this case writing legislation that re-establishes the push out rule that NO Democrat (and more than a few, republicans) will vote against), pretending that one MIGHT get something better tomorrow, or wishful thinking, or subservience.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
121. You are absolutely correct.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 01:46 PM
Dec 2014

After all the Republican psychotic behavior of the last few years, having a 2015 budget under our belts after Republican landsides is a win!

I know people whose lives have been uprooted because of shutdowns and sequestration, people who had 401 K and investments obliterated.

This shit isn't just existential exercises in political philosophy.

We have to see the forest for the trees, stay out of the tiny little weeds. This spending bill is not going to trigger worldwide financial collapse. This spending bill is not going to end pension payments for all. This spending bill isn't going to set off a global warming/ ice age. This spending bill isn't going to take away our democracy and freedoms and make us servants to the oligarchs.

This spending bill is going to get us to the next battle! Our elected representatives can work on the bad stuff just as you say.

This is a Democratic victory!

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
122. Well ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 01:58 PM
Dec 2014

the spending bill could be, and likely will, trigger a global banking collapse (unless there is another bail-out), and end pensions, and a bunch of other horrible things, if Warren, Sanders, Pelosi, and/or the Progressive Caucus doesn't get off Facebook, and get to the drafting table to develop the individual legislation to reverse out this stuff.

BTW, prepare to be called all kinds of names ... shortly.

Colorado Liberal

(145 posts)
158. Took me awhile...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:42 PM
Dec 2014

"... if Warren, Sanders, Pelosi, and/or the Progressive Caucus doesn't get off Facebook..."

Now I get it. You think the Progressive Caucus is a waste of time. It's actually a brilliant strategy - vote for a bunch of stuff you claim you don't want in the name of getting a spending bill, and then blame the legislators you don't respect anyway when they don't "fix" it. Whatever keeps your hands clean, I guess...

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
159. Nope, not at all ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:51 PM
Dec 2014

I have great respect for Warren, Sanders and the Progressive Caucus. They are fighting part of the good fight.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
170. Interesting facts. The Progressive Caucus is the largest caucus within the Democratic Caucus in the
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:37 PM
Dec 2014

US Congress. There are currently 69 members, about 20 of whom are also members of the Black Caucus. The Black Caucus itself has 43 current members, so nearly half are members of the Progressive Caucus.
Also, Warren is not a member of the Progressive Caucus. Sanders is the only Senate member, in part because he helped found the caucus when he was in the House, back in 1987 along with my Rep Peter DeFazio, and Maxine Waters (who was my Rep) and three other members who are no longer in Congress. At that time, Warren was a Republican.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
141. What is this "strategy"
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:55 PM
Dec 2014
strategically protecting what you have

What is being protected?

AND in September 2015, with republican domination,
what will THEY capitulate?

The losses are HUGE.
What was protected and what WILL be gained
with a republican dominated Congress?

When Wall St gets it's next bailout, what will your "strategy" have defended???
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
145. What is protected? ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:13 PM
Dec 2014

the funding for the ACA, and all of the other social safety net programs, not to mention Federal employees, that would suffer under a government shut-down.

September 2015, will be in the thick of (the beginning of) the 2016 races, where republicans have far more seats (in both houses of congress) to defend, than Democrats had in 2014.

The losses are HUGE.
What was protected and what WILL be gained
with a republican dominated Congress?


The POTENTIAL losses are, in fact, huge. All of which can be prevented should Warren, Sanders, Pelosi and the Progressive Caucus act to write the legislation.

When Wall St gets it's next bailout, what will your "strategy" have defended???


Why do you keep referring (presumably, mockingly) to my strategy; while leaving out half of it? ... You know, the part about legislation being written to re-establish the rules.

JustAnotherGen

(31,828 posts)
146. Bang on
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 03:54 PM
Dec 2014

Zero pragmatism gets shown at DU sometimes. Sometimes I think people at DU just 'cry' middle class and poor - because I'm not either one of those -

But I'll take this as it is because I don't want people eating cat food and missing out on our social safety net.

Do I agree with this? Not at all. Spent a few too many nights with a Hedgie from Ireland (went back and forth between NYC and Dublin and London) in 2006/2008. . . It's all a game to them. A literal game. They have no fucks to give about anyone but themselves. Telling a man who grew up dirt poor one of ten kids in a small town in Ireland that he has to monitor himself - that isn't going to work.

Easy peasy - re-implement glass steagall and be done with it.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
156. +1 ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:39 PM
Dec 2014

Telling anyone playing the game to monitor themselves - just isn't going to work.

Easy peasy - re-implement glass steagall and be done with it.


Yep.

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
8. Thanks for nothing, Reid
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 08:45 AM
Dec 2014

Literally, thank you for the big nothing so many of us have in store for us when everything crashes again.

TBF

(32,068 posts)
24. Wing D has been infiltrated -
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 09:15 AM
Dec 2014

by the billionaires of Wing R. Wing D still has old-school labor supporting dems. Wing R still has church ladies/gents. But the people who have the power are the billionaires buying off whomever they need to in both parties (and they are not really run of the mill R's themselves - they are libertarians).

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
17. figures
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 09:04 AM
Dec 2014

no surprise from that one. He and Pelosi have been ducking and dodging and bending to corporate dems/repulsicans will from day one.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
22. The Public can't have sparkle farting ponies...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 09:14 AM
Dec 2014

but the banksters can?
Got it.

Democrats can's do get anything done in congress
because of mean ole republicans... unless it's for Wall St?
Got it.

Archae

(46,337 posts)
23. If Reid had allowed Warren's and Vitter's amendment...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 09:14 AM
Dec 2014

He would have had to let the GOP add any other amendment they wanted.

Can you imagine the amendments Ted Cruz was drooling over?

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
36. Things have reached the point
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 09:54 AM
Dec 2014

where you get mugged by the guy who says he's got your back, and then get told it would have been worse if the guy he's protecting you from had done it instead, and you're supposed to be grateful.

Thespian2

(2,741 posts)
41. With the Billionaires
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 10:09 AM
Dec 2014

having bought the millionaire members of Congress, how could anyone with a working brain cell expect a different outcome? So, a great big hug for Harry and Nancy, two of the POS Dino's who look out for their own well-being without the slightest concern for average American wage-earners.

Oh, you mean Obama and Dimon lobbied hard for the screwing of America? Of course they did.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
42. Congress can't get anything because they are always on their knees servicing Wall Street...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 10:16 AM
Dec 2014

it's the worlds oldest profession.

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
119. See the paid-off local bottom feeders
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 01:31 PM
Dec 2014

Passing themselves off as "leaders"
Kiss the ladies, shake hands with the fellows
then it's "open for business" like a cheap bordello

And they call it Democracy.

librechik

(30,674 posts)
52. Please explain to me again how voting helps
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:10 AM
Dec 2014

We lose all our power in the complexities which force Reid to just let this monster pass. "The monster we're preventing by letting this other CRonster in is so much worse!"

Or maybe they're all in it together.

I don't know anymore. I only know they don't respond to voter will, no matter what the results of the elections.


turbinetree

(24,703 posts)
54. They wonder
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:15 AM
Dec 2014

And the democrats wonder why they keep losing races, its right there in front of there noses, its called having a spine, principles, protect those that put you in office, that is your job.
Warren, Sanders, Brown and others know this, didn't the leadership get the memo, apparently not, or they just don't care, this is outrageous.

 

dirtydickcheney

(242 posts)
55. Reid has one role.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:16 AM
Dec 2014

Make sure that any meaningful legislation that might challenge corporate power isn't passed.
He might talk a good game, but when push-comes-to-shove he'll listen to big money's interests.

EVERY TIME.

That's it.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
61. I've never been one of those doomsdayers who invested in gold, but this bill guarantees
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:23 AM
Dec 2014

another crash. Gold is looking pretty good to me right now.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
67. Elections have consequences
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:31 AM
Dec 2014

If we don't want a government shut down, we are stuck giving Republicans things.

Oilwellian

(12,647 posts)
73. LOL
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:39 AM
Dec 2014

Who knew Obama and his good buddy Jamie Dimon would whip Democrats into helping the Republicans? You just can't make this shit up.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
89. Republicans have to sign on or they will shut the government down
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:06 PM
Dec 2014

There's nothing funny about that. Elections have consequences.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
74. Only temporarily ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:39 AM
Dec 2014

I have noticed that everyone "debating/arguing" with me on this are studiously avoiding answering this:

(Posted earlier and tired of typing and re-typing it) (A)s the next move:

Democrats take advantage of the swell of republican/conservative/teaparty opposition to the derivative push-out roll-back and write individual legislation re-establishing the rule (and removing all the other horrible stuff the spending bill contains; but could only pass as part of the must pass spending bill. All (most) Democrats (and a significant number of republicans) will support the individual legislation, as who, without the cover/lack of transparency of the spending bill, will come out against it?



Other than to rehash the travesty that is the spending bill ... or simply state it won't happen.

The former is resting in yesterday ... The latter indicates people have no faith that Warren, Sanders, Pelosi and the rest of the Progressive Caucus can/would write the individual pieces of legislation.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
90. Yes, and Pelosi is out of luck, being outnumbered by Republicans
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:08 PM
Dec 2014

And Warren and Sanders next term will be able to do nothing, thanks to being outnumbered by Republicans.

Not unless we want the government shut down.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
98. I disagree ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:20 PM
Dec 2014

Should all/any of the three, take advantage of the conservative objections to the push-out roll back, and write the legislation ... it would likely pass, as NO Democrat (and few republicans) would go on record voting against naked legislation that re-establishes the push out rule.

Nor, would ANY Democrat (a more than a few, republicans) vote against naked legislation killing the pension raiding, or much of the other stuff that is in spending bill.

As it stands, assuming that President Obama signs the spending bill, the earliest we would be facing a government shut down would be when Congress takes up the expiring funding of DHS (when Democrats tie the funding to immigration reform ... no reform/no DHS funding).

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
80. I think people are confusing what happened in the senate with what happened in the house.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:48 AM
Dec 2014

Having them redo the bill in the house would have caused a govt shutdown.

The amendment in the senate that couldn't get voted on b/c it was blocked by Reid would have just taken out the citigroup rider and they could've passed the bill without it.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
160. And next term ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:55 PM
Dec 2014

runs into 2016 election season ... Giving Democrats ample opportunity to demonstrate by the proof of the vote (on the reversing legislation), who enabled the re-opening of the casinos and the raids on pensions.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
94. Not exactly ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:11 PM
Dec 2014

If the Warren-Vitter Amendment had been included AND if the spending bill had passed (the second one being a big "if&quot ... the bill would have gone back to the House for a vote. Do you really think the amended bill would have passed the House?

BTW, please address this:

(Posted earlier and tired of typing and re-typing it) (A)s the next move:

Democrats take advantage of the swell of republican/conservative/teaparty opposition to the derivative push-out roll-back and write individual legislation re-establishing the rule (and removing all the other horrible stuff the spending bill contains; but could only pass as part of the must pass spending bill. All (most) Democrats (and a significant number of republicans) will support the individual legislation, as who, without the cover/lack of transparency of the spending bill, will come out against it?


I can only assume you have read; but, are choosing to ignore it. If so, do so directly.
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
99. Maybe ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:22 PM
Dec 2014

the ball is in Warren's, Sanders', Pelosi's, and/or the Progressive Caucus' court.

I recommend folks contact them to do their job. Will you join me?

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
104. You just seem to be for Wall Street dems here, so when you ask if I'll join you on this,
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:42 PM
Dec 2014

forgive me for not taking you seriously.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
107. LOL ...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:50 PM
Dec 2014

asking you to join me in contacting Warren, Sanders, Pelosi and/or the rest of the Progressive Caucus to have them write the (naked) legislation to re-establish the push out rule (and take out each of the pieces we don't like) is "be(ing) for wall street"?

Okay!

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
83. He can't just add one amendment.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 11:55 AM
Dec 2014

The bill is either open to amendments, or it's not. There is no "special exception" because some senator wants one.

We'd still be holding votes on all the amendments proposed if this had been allowed. Keystone pipeline? I'm sure an amendment would have been added for that. Cancel Obamacare? I'm sure someone would have proposed that.

Fuck the Palestinians? Yep, that got proposed. Eliminate the IRS? Check. Defund the EPA? Check.

Basically, Reid saw we had more to lose than we could gain by allowing amendments. And he was probably right.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
93. Then why have a senate if they are there to just pass everything sent to them by the house
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:10 PM
Dec 2014

without changing/improving anything?

Seems to me there's no need for a senate if they can't make amendments.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
97. Who exactly is this "WE"?
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 12:15 PM
Dec 2014
Basically, Reid saw we had more to lose than we could gain by allowing amendments. And he was probably right.

Complete speculation and rationalization.
No basis in reality given the facts at hand.

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
149. I, for one, happen to like the ACA and the EPA.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:04 PM
Dec 2014

Our environment is being flushed down the drain. If keeping the EPA and the Presidents regulations on things like coal depends on not allowing amendments, then I'm for it.

If the bankers want to make more money, and the price for that is the enablement of a bunch of the critical stuff we've fought for, then it's worth it.

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
157. Think of it this way...
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 04:41 PM
Dec 2014

The Repubs helped out maybe a dozen companies and bought a couple thousand votes with this nonsense.

The ACA and all the other programs that were enshrined and funded in this budget will affect millions of people. Millions.

This whole thing is a big win for Dema IMO.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
127. Thanks madfloridian!
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 02:23 PM
Dec 2014

(Also see it http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025967492 )

They've taken over our treasury dept.

They pay huge bonuses to employees who land high ranking jobs with the federal govt when they leave, as well. So their investment in that and $$$ to the people supposed to be looking out for our best interests is paying off big.

Response to RiverLover (Original post)

tritsofme

(17,380 posts)
162. This is a bullshit criticism. Amending the bill meant a government shutdown.
Thu Dec 18, 2014, 05:06 PM
Dec 2014

The House had already left town, that's where the blame lies.

Babel_17

(5,400 posts)
176. Imo we should have shined a bright light on the issue of the inclusion of that giveaway
Fri Dec 19, 2014, 08:38 AM
Dec 2014

Imo we should have shined a bright light on the issue of the inclusion of that giveaway. We should have compelled the Republicans to acknowledge it, and to own it. We should have publicly asked if it was a deal breaker if we stripped it away in the Senate.

:shakes head: Instead, they got what they wanted and we can't point out their blatant servitude to the very forces that wreaked havoc on our nation. We can't point it out, at least not as a unified party, because we all too complacently went along with it.

Too much of a rush to just go home. We had right on our side and we passed up a golden opportunity to frame the political environment to our advantage.

A few Democrats were sharp enough to see this. I salute them. :salute:

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
177. The attempt to blame liberals for this bill and then the attempt to blame liberals if the
Fri Dec 19, 2014, 09:14 AM
Dec 2014

bad parts of this bill are not rolled back are laughable and pitiful at the same fucking time.

Reid - a damned DEMOCRAT - will not let Warren or anyone else's bills to correct the bad legislation come up for a vote.
To say that it is now on the shoulders of Warren and other liberals to change the minds of the asshole Blue Dogs that outnumber them, plus the GOP, is beyond cynical and is just flat out ridiculous. And this from those who excuse the PRESIDENT of being powerless before all the GOP and DINOs in Congress. The President sure was powerful enough - or Jamie Dimon was powerful enough, what does that say about who is really in charge - to whip the vote his way. Anyone think Dimon was afraid of what the GOP would come up with if the bill failed is really really stupid or perhaps, thinks everyone else is stupid. Dimon wanted the giveaways to Wall Street and the banks. Cutting food stamps and things like that - frosting on the cake.

The spin and the assumption of a lack of logical thought are sadly familiar, though. Blame liberals no matter what.

Reid will file cloture and "fill the tree" and stall bills because those are his wishes and his orders. Baby, that's a fact.

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