How big a problem is "cultural appropriation" in the United States?

[Nye Bevan]

Lots of complaints here in the last few days about hair, clothing and music styles being stolen from one culture by another (Katy Perry's cornrows being a case in point).

So how big a problem do you think "cultural appropriation" is in the United States?

32 votes, 1 pass | Time left: Unlimited
	A huge problem
	0 (0%)
	A big problem
	2 (6%)
	Not a big problem, but definitely a problem
	0 (0%)
	I see "cultural appropriation" going on, but don't think it's a problem
	3 (9%)
	This whole debate is ridiculous
	27 (84%)
	1 DU member did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[notadmblnd]

1. It only seems to be a problem here

IMO, nothing but a bunch of white people bitching at other white people about what they think is stealing from another culture- to show that they are less of a bigot than the ones who adopt styles from those whose cultures are believed to be different.

[1StrongBlackMan]

34. Doesn't the fact that you have completely ignored/dismissed ...

the voice of the non-white contributors to this discussion bother you?

And, shouldn't it give anyone saying cultural appropriation is a non-issue pause to reflect.

[notadmblnd]

48. I don't really understand your question

Do you mean this particular thread, or the entire subject that seems to have become an issue here at DU recently? Perhaps you meant to ask if it is an issue with the people I come into contact with in reality on a daily basis.

As I said to begin with, only here at DU does it seem- that some want it to be an issue.

[1StrongBlackMan]

57. No ...

I meant this thread ... where you said:

It only seems to be a problem here. IMO, nothing but a bunch of white people bitching at other white people about what they think is stealing from another culture- to show that they are less of a bigot than the ones who adopt styles from those whose cultures are believed to be different.

Dismissing the voices of the many non-white contributors to this thread, and the other cultural appropriation thread, that have stated it IS a problem for them.

[notadmblnd]

70. When I posted, there was no one else who had posted in the thread

that had identified themselves as non-white. While I have read some of the other threads (which I have not posted in), for the most part- are exactly what I said.

The word Appropriation means the action of taking something for one's own use, typically without the owner's permission or basically to steal. I don't see how a "culture" can be stolen from? One can adopt styles from a culture, however the culture loses nothing, therefore nothing has been stolen.

I'm getting to be a pretty old bird and I think I can say that back in the 70's I never once heard an African American complain about the white hippies stealing their style by wearing the Afro hairstyle or a dashiki. I also never heard a white person complain when my African American husband oiled up and laid out in the sun at the beach. I could go on with examples of different cultures being borrowed from and other whites and non-whites not complaining.

However, the only people who are talking about it being a problem are people here at DU, and yes, most of them are white.

There was a thread here yesterday where there were some very good posts, it was about Elvis and how he appropriated from the African American in his music. I don't know if you participated or not, but someone had posted a video of African Americans paying tribute to him and expressing their feelings in regards to his appropriation. As I recall, it was not a hindrance to them. They were already hindered in their endeavors. In fact, their feelings were pretty much just the opposite

[SMC22307]

124. Speaking of Elvis... the Nudie Suit.

Created by an Ukrainian Jew -- Nudie Cohn -- who, as a child, was sent to the United States to escape the pogroms of Tsarist Russia. He *appropriates* from country/western culture and becomes a huge success. Is it appropriation? Who *owns* country/western culture in order to grant him permission for use?



(Been watching Flying Burrito Brothers videos and it jumped out at me...)

[randys1]

2. Dismissing concerns of the minority is a strong form of white privilege in America.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

6. "Dismissing concerns of the minority..."

"the minority" is not a monolithic bloc.

I'll wager that far more minorities are buying albums from Katy Perry and Iggy Azalea than are complaining about their fashion and musical styling choices.

[Evergreen Emerald]

7. Please define the concern

Within the context of America as a melting pot. I was under the impression that cultural growth is a good thing.

[randys1]

8. Dont ask me, I am not a Black person...ask a Black person, or read some of the threads here

I simply stated that to dismiss the concerns of a group of people is an example of white privilege.

It is MY opinion that many many white people in America do that on a daily basis about any number of issues, including art form.

[Evergreen Emerald]

11. I see

Sorry. You made a statement of concerns that are being dismissed--as if you were aware. Dialogues are hard to start on this forum.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

13. "ask a Black person"

[randys1]

20. Dismissing me with cute pictures is OK, but very few would find this amusing I think

Personally I would NEVER speak for any minority group, but that is just me.

The extent to which I am willing to do so usually is limited to responding to people who express white privilege, and then only to observe said white privilege.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

23. I wasn't talking about whether or not it's appropriate to speak for others.

But I suspect you already knew that.

[1StrongBlackMan]

40. Curious that ...

you would choose THIS thread, to self-identify; given the many, many opportunities that have been presented, the nature of your posts in this thread, and your (complete) absence in other "race" threads.

Color me, curious; if not, skeptical.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

42. Is there a point you wish to make?

[1StrongBlackMan]

45. Just making an observation that ...

I find your choosing this thread to self-identify Black; given the many, many opportunities to do so, to be curious.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

47. I'm not African American

[1StrongBlackMan]

51. I apologize.n/t

[randys1]

74. Oh, so that is the reason for the facepalm, so you are as surprised as I am...

TO give someone a facepalm for something they could NOT POSSIBLY have known, is a curious thing too

Oh, now I see the rest of the posts, yeah, no clue what the arrogant facepalm was for but given who gave it to me, i dont much care

[1StrongBlackMan]

85. No, I think I misread/misinterpreted the facepalm pic ...

to be related to his/her self-identifying as Black. Apparently, he/she was mocking your statement "ask a Black person" ... because it is unthinkable for one to acknowledge that Black folks might have a better grasp on the specifics of this matter than a white person, even if that white person was discussing the topic ... and took it as far as they could.

I suspect he/she just, coincidently, used (probably) the most recognizable Black man in America to do so.

[randys1]

107. Wow, really? Are they that clueless that they would laugh at the idea? wow

I am sincerely blown away that their feelings are that removed from reality ...

[Chemisse]

110. My impression is that it is ludicrous to expect a single black person to represent the opinions

of all black people - as though all blacks think and feel exactly the same things.

I would facepalm over that myself.

[arely staircase]

19. my brother in law nt

[randys1]

22. Now that is a cute "gotcha" comment

[Nye Bevan]

25. Clarence Thomas? (nt)

[bravenak]

27. You can always ask me.

Nobody speaks for everybody, but I'm fairly mainstream.

[arcane1]

101. You tried to speak for all white people. Time to ditch the act.

[bravenak]

44. Black people were left out of the 'melting pot'.

It was called segregation. No other group was segregated (left out of the melting pot) like we were, and certainly not for multiple generations. They began calling the melting pot a salad bowl in the Seventies.
The 'Melting Pot' was White Only. Just like many things. Understand that, and you understand why these issues matter so much to us. Being left out all the time leads you to make your own culture. And when you add the fact that we were always left out, cheated, stolen from, babies sold, beaten up, segregated, lynched, raped, harassed, threatened, had white producers steal our music for white bands to 'Cover' while they got all the credit, then you can possibly understand the fact the Black people have trust issues with the Majority. When you have had to fight for every scrap, fight to vote, fight to OWN YOURSELF, you probably don't really feel like giving one more thing to the majority.

[riderinthestorm]

65. Actually the Native Americans would probably quibble with you on this point...

Not trying to diminish your post but the NA community has been as badly treated. They get to claim real attempts at genocide on top of their other woes.

[bravenak]

66. You are right.

That was a serious, neglectful, oversight on my part. Thank you for bringing that up so I don't forget again.

[SMC22307]

138. "Being left out all the time leads you to make your own culture."

Specifically, what "culture" have you and others created? Would hip-hop/ghetto rap be part of that creation? Is this "culture" helping or hurting blacks, black males in particular? For example, if two young men show up for an interview, one dressed professionally and the other dressed with his pants hanging below his ass crack, who will get hired?

I've worked in DC and surrounding areas for decades and see successful blacks every day. PG County, Maryland is nearly 65% black, and according to Wikipedia, "the 70th most affluent county in the United States by median income for families and the most affluent county in the United States with an African-American majority." What are they doing right?

I work in the IT industry -- lots of Indians (Hindu, Muslim and Sikh on my team) -- and have to say they seem to have assimilated beautifully, without losing their "culture." What are they doing right?

A vocal minority (no pun intended) on DU likes to chalk up black woes to racist whities, but at what point are *some* blacks culpable for their failures?

[bravenak]

139. It's you again.

[SMC22307]

141. Ooh booy, have I made The List?!

Way to dodge my questions.

[bravenak]

143. Those were not real questions.

I only answer questions like that for my blog. I will not discuss your post of loaded questions with you.

[SMC22307]

146. And I won't be frequenting your blog...

so I guess we'll never know. Pity.

[bravenak]

149. So?

It's not for u.

[SMC22307]

150. Yeah, that approach won't work.

[bravenak]

151. For whom?

Works just fine for me.

[F4lconF16]

152. Didn't know you had a blog.

Link, if you want to share?

[bravenak]

153. I literally started it this week.

I put the link at the bottom of my posts.
I thought it might be fun, you know?

[F4lconF16]

160. Found it!

Didn't see it because I'm on the mobile version well you've got at least one reader!

[bravenak]

166. Awesome!!!

Yesterday was crazy.

[XemaSab]

3. Hip hop has been a global culture for the last 30+ years

Saying that it "belongs" to one group of people but not others is questionable.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

10. "Saying that it "belongs" to one group of people but not others is questionable."

Perhaps those who are most upset could provide a spreadsheet showing what each group is allowed to like and not allowed to like.

And then we need a bureau to keep track of it all; people who can be in charge of licensing in case a member of one group wants to employ a style or device from another group normally prohibited to them. I'm not sure who the fees will be paid to or how they shall be disbursed or what the penalty may be for non-payment but many feel SOMETHING must be done.

[1StrongBlackMan]

41. That's not what "cultural appropriation" is about. n/t

[Sheldon Cooper]

15. Wow, you've been here for 12 hours, and you think the issue can be put to rest?

How you must have suffered...

[Bobbie Jo]

29. lol

[uppityperson]

38. heh

[gollygee]

80. A bunch of white people who think cultural appropriation is a joke voted and agreed

What does that prove except that DU is incredibly tone deaf as far as issues surrounding racism go?

[gollygee]

83. Because they're tone deaf

Most people at DU have done nothing at all to educate themselves about racism, and their white privilege gives them a false sense of what it is and how bad it is.

[gollygee]

90. Which equals tone deaf.

If almost every person of color on DU tells you that cultural appropriation is real, you shouldn't dismiss it as "dubious." There is nothing dubious about it.

[gollygee]

94. It isn't a well understood concept

which you show with your very words.

[4139]

5. Only Native Americans should be allowed to drink coffee; eat chocolate, tomatoes pepper, corn, etc..

And tattoos are out unless you are Samoan

[Nuclear Unicorn]

14. Hmmmm -- that makes me wonder

Is the term cornrows an example of appropriation?

[bravenak]

28. Nope.

Last edited Mon Dec 29, 2014, 03:40 PM - Edit history (1)

We worked tending the cornfields and were illiterate so we used words of things we saw everyday to name the style. Remember, we lived on rations of cornmeal, salt pork and molasses, so we didn't have much energy after 14 hours in the field to name things. We weren't allowed to use any African languages on threat of bloody beatings, so we had to use english. It's called... Assimilation. It's not funny. We struggle to assimilate and never fit in and you all sit around here laughing it up about us. It's hurtful. To me personally.

[rbrnmw]

49. what are you talking about?

why are you so insensitive?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

59. "insensitive"?

Trying being called a racist and a thief for not agreeing with every minute expression of outrage ever expressed in every corner of the internet.

Honestly, I can't keep up with all the demands and expectations -- half-explained, unexplained, ill-explained and contradictory as they are. Ask someone to join: it's assimilating. Don't ask someone to join: it's segregating. Join them instead: it's appropriating.

The only constant in this ever-changing sea of accusations is that I'm a bad person no matter how much I would hope/try to be otherwise; and judged so by people who never bother to climb out from behind their computer monitors. I feel like I'm the collateral casualty in the drone war against racism.

Somebody send me a flowchart. I'm over trying to figure out what to do next.

[bravenak]

63. I FOUND one!!!!

I have found the flowchart you requested from somebody. Being somebody, I decided to provide. Yay!!

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf1thh4nyg1qbkfrn.pdf

[randys1]

76. Good one...

I do love it when men lecture Women or white folk lecture Black folk...

It is never in short supply, either. Neither are.

The poll results are a perfect example of white privilege, if it aint a problem for us white folk, then it aint a problem

My comment above this sentence should be the end of the conversation, every person who alleges to be a liberal would go,

"huh, no shit, now I get it"

but watch how many dont

and I am a white guy so you dont have to feel lectured to by a Black person

[whathehell]

104. Thank you..

I know the feeling.

[SMC22307]

147. Assimilating v. segregating v. appropriating.

Ask someone to join: it's assimilating. Don't ask someone to join: it's segregating. Join them instead: it's appropriating.

EXACTLY.

[4139]

64. Corn, as in 'corned beef'... Every look up the etymology?

Corn is a generic word for grain, granular. Wheat is a corn, so is rye. When the Brits arrived the native Americans grew this stuff the Brits had never seen before so the referred to it as 'Indian corn' as it was the grain the Indians grew.

[Skidmore]

93. Wrong.

The "corned" in corned beef refers ti the large piecrs of rock salt used to make the brine the meat was soaked in. Has nothing to do with grain. Not a good example.

[4139]

97. Grain/granular is corn. Corned in corned beef is from the grains of rocksalt

I did not mean to imply there was 'maze' in corned beef

[NutmegYankee]

161. Coffee originated in Africa. (Ethiopia).

The Arabs have been drinking it for centuries. They had robust trade for it.

[2naSalit]

9. It's just another argument

among the daily barrage of stupid, nit-picky little tiffs meant to morph into major "things" in order to continue the steady march of divide and conquer pogrom.

[arely staircase]

12. I can't think of anything I give less of a shit about than Katy Perry's hairstyle nt

[stevenleser]

16. I don't understand that statement in terms of how you voted. Can you explain?

Thanks

[arely staircase]

18. I voted sarcastically, Steve nt

[stevenleser]

21. Fair enough. nt

[VScott]

24. Katy Perry "appropriated" an ethinc hairstyle?

HOW DARE SHE!!!

[FrodosPet]

26. Does anyone else remember when it was RW bigots who were the ones complaining about...

...white people not acting "white" and listening to non-white music?

[bravenak]

30. This whole thing where you guys sit around laughing about appropriation is hurtful and mean.

We have struggled to assimilate in this culture for centuries. Each new batch of immigrants eventually being brought into the fold, while we are left out for being too different. Then when we talk about aporopriation, you all call OUR assimilation appropriation and laugh at us for being upset. We still don't fit in. We still aren't accepted. And SOME white people still think it's funny to sit around and laugh it up about any feeling we may have resulting from the four hundred year abusive relationship America has with us.


Many of you have hurt me most deeply. I have no idea why I expected a bit of empathy from you all. Maybe because you are Democrats? I am an idiot for that.

I feel bruised by this whole thing and the lack of understanding and empathy SOME of you show.

[Nye Bevan]

31. This discussion originated (AFAIK) from a thread posted by Gollygee on Christmas Day

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026002912

Katy Perry's cornrows were the first example that she cited of "cultural appropriation". And while the subsequent discussions have seen some unpleasant behavior, I think the majority of the discourse has been fairly civil.

[bravenak]

35. I do not care where it originated.

I am hurt by th cavalierness of the op and the posts therein. Just because somebody posted an op, doesn't mean it's not mean and hurtful for a group of duers to laugh behind our backs and make fun of our concerns at how difficult it still is for us to fit in this nation. We are people with feelings and can be hurt and harmed. It is harmful and damaging to me to know just how little SOME duers care, and how easy it is for them to set up a laugh factory at our expense.

[rbrnmw]

54. I guess you could care less about anything that makes you a wee bit uncomfortable

Maybe the Democratic Party isn't the right fit for African Americans anymore. If you lose the African American vote, The United States will become Tea Party Heaven but that should be fine with y'all you will fit in well.

[Quantess]

114. Sounds like a slippery slope:

White democrats not giving a rip about Katy Perry's cornrows will cause Blacks to flee the Democratic party.

[gollygee]

79. I posted that in respose to a thread about Iggy Azelea

where people obviously didn't even begin to understand the concept of cultural appropriation. And still don't.

[JustAnotherGen]

33. +1

It's all fun and games until the demographics change . . . really change.

[bravenak]

37. Yep.

Not so 'special' then.

[JustAnotherGen]

46. This is awesome -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026016894

What's wrong with a brown skinned natural hair wearing little girl playing Annie? Absolutely nothing! I love randy!

[bravenak]

56. Randy always makes me smile.

He turns that shit right around.

[randys1]

78. so do I...

[Nuclear Unicorn]

81. " What's wrong with a brown skinned natural hair wearing little girl playing Annie?

Absolutely nothing!

Correct. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it and anyone who would complain about that beautiful child playing Annie would be a too racially-blinded to merit serious consideration.

[Throd]

36. I think people who adopt the mannerisms of hip-hop are sincere in their appreciation of the artform.

Well, the vast majority anyway. To equate Katy Perry's hairdo with a bunch of white guys from the 1930's singing in blackface doesn't seem like a very valid comparison. When a bunch of white sorority jerk-offs have a "Ghetto Party" it is insensitive and racist. When white people want to be good at hip-hop it isn't.

I'm sorry that some of the attitudes you find expressed here are hurtful to you.

[bravenak]

39. I missed the whole blackface thing.

It is distressing to see how easy it is for some people to consistenly offend black people while never bothering to realize that it's them who are being offensive.
I'll leave them to the "LOL!! Black People, LOL!!" Party.

[lumberjack_jeff]

50. Frankly and fundamentally, my hairstyle isn't your business.

I don't feel my empathy necessarily requires obeisance to your withheld approval of that hairstyle.

Further, I'm unclear how the similarity of my dress, music preferences or diet to yours creates a barrier to your cultural assimilation.

So long as the emulation is genuine and not a caricature, I don't see the problem.

I respect your right to choose your own lifestyle. I don't acknowledge anyone's collective ownership of it.

Go Seahawks.

Appropriated logo or not, they're not just for native americans.

[bravenak]

53. I have no idea what you are talking about Jeff.

My commentary was directed at SOME people. And you most certainly are NOT one of the people who have ever offended me. I am offended at the mockery by some people. As long as you are not mocking, jeering, or being hurtful, I hope you enjoy your hairsytle and mode of dress.
My only comment on the cornrow thread was that I could have done a much better job on her plaits.

[1StrongBlackMan]

32. I'm still uncertain ...

I have far too much research to do before forming an opinion. And I'm still trying to figure out whether the term "cultural APPROPRIATION" is the proper framing of the issue ... with my limited knowledge on this particular issue, but with an extensive knowledge base vis-à-vis, white privilege, I suspect a better framing of the issue would be "cultural MISappropriation."

On the one hand, appropriation can be seen as an effort to accept and integrate another's cultural elements, into a larger cultural frame; but, that smacks of white privilege in that it leads to the extermination, rather than, celebration of non-white/European cultural features.

[lumberjack_jeff]

61. I get the issue of context.

At risk of trivializing an issue that people feel strongly about, as my name implies, I grew up in timber country. The hipster lumberjack style is an adaptation of a workwear style that came from functional needs of loggers. I joke that this is a form of cultural appropriation, but really it's just silly. It's a style divorced from the cultural and functional context in which it developed.

The same is true of much of what passes for coture, music and food, like the Arizona "locavore" who subsists on Quinoa.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

43. It depends on who you are.

If you're a member of the culture being appropriated, it's a problem. If you're a member of the culture doing the appropriating, apparently not so much.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

75. I don't know from Katy Perry.

But if you want to know who cultural appropriation hurts, there are plenty of folks out there who have written about how it reinforces stereotypes that are harmful to the cultures from whom things have been appropriated. A better example in my mind than Perry is the appropriation of Native American images and dress as used by 'sports fans'. There's certainly plenty of articles out there explaining the harm in treating other humans as 'mascots'.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

88. The focus should be on

whatever the people being harmed think the focus should be on.

Not on whatever the people who aren't being harmed decide the focus should be on.

It's not up to us as white people to tell blacks or Native American what their 'focus' should be on. There is no 'white man's burden'; it is not incumbent upon us to make decisions for them.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

95. Who gets to judge the legitimacy of the grievances?

The person committing the harm? People who don't even 'see' any harm?

Certainly none of those people will consider such grievances 'legitimate'.

[Blue_In_AK]

52. I'm not African-American so maybe I shouldn't say anything at all on this subject

according to some, but it seems to me like if too much is made of "cultural appropriation," it magnifies the problem of cultural segregation. I think the more we share each other's cultures the better. And of course that goes both (or all) ways.

But I'm just a hippie peace freak, so my opinion is probably marginal.

[SomethingFishy]

55. Um.. This is America... Our "culture" was to take all the other "cultures"

and toss them in the blender. Just because the Republicans lost their damn minds and have divided us up into little "cultures" does not mean that we need to agree with them and argue about it. Like everything else, if the Republicans are saying it, it's probably as wrong as it gets. Our culture is American. Yes we stole things like food and music, and we "Americanized" them. Faster and Louder. That is what we do in America.

What was it Bill Murray said in Stripes? "We're Americans dammit, we've been kicked out of every decent country on the planet!"

It seems to me that if someone is bothered by Black Annie or Katy Perry with cornrows, then the problem lies with them..

[gollygee]

87. The fact that we've been doing it for a long time doesn't make it OK

We have also historically committed genocide and slavery. Having done it in the past doesn't excuse it.

[Raine1967]

58. You know what? If fellow members if DU have a problem with it, I pay attention.

I pay attention and I try to learn.

And I suspect many others here on DU do as well. I find this poll rather dismissive to some of our many members who are trying to communicate something that actually exists.

Saying it is a problem dismisses the reality that people want to talk about an issue.

This post is really bad.

[rbrnmw]

60. If you had taken the time to educate yourself you wouldn't be making jokes about it.

It's not funny and by now I have no choice but to believe you are intentionally trying to hurt black posters on DU. I don't know why this type of indefensible racism is allowed to stand here.

[JustAnotherGen]

62. I've never gotten the impression that

nye cares enough to even do that - if that makes sense to you? Way too detached.

[rbrnmw]

77. yes makes sense

[Nye Bevan]

67. If you think a post is indefensibly racist, you should alert on it.

And if the majority of the jury agrees with you, it will be hidden.

In this case, the post was not a joke so much as an attempt to determine the feelings of a majority of DUers on this issue. Sometimes a very small number of DUers are extremely vocal about an issue and this gives the impression that the issue is more significant than most DUers think it is. And the results of the poll bear this out in this case.

[randys1]

106. The poll was done to mock the issue and concerns of certain people, clearly

[Nye Bevan]

108. Not sure how a poll asking DUers how they feel about an issue is "mocking it"

but you certainly seem to have convinced yourself that this is the case.

[randys1]

109. Yeah, just me, I am the only one...

[etherealtruth]

134. That was my interpretation!

I am sorry that I waded into this mess!

[Kurska]

68. I love this poll EOM

[kwassa]

69. White people vote on a minority concern. White people win.

Nye Bevan is repeatedly submitting polls on this topic to the white majority that populates DU. They call it ridiculous.

and what does this result prove?

[bravenak]

72. I call it ridiculous too.

But not for the same reasons as he. It was ridiculous to even post the poll.
Of course his pov will win in numbers. Barely have any black folks left here, so it's just a bunch of white democrats discussing black people and patting themselves on the back because they are such reasonable folks. Much more reasonable than those BLACK folks who always complain that America treats them unfairly.

[kwassa]

105. I agree. I think the OP is condescending in the extreme.

In my personal opinion.

[janlyn]

122. Patting themselves on the back.

Thats it in a nutshell. For a lot of people who call themselves liberal its whatever is trendy at the time. Bhuddism is in? Their Bhuddist.
Yoga is in? They do yoga. LGBT acceptance is in? They have LGBT friends. Protesting the brutality of the police toward blacks is in? They protest. I had someone write to our local paper about the fact that when they went to the local protest after the grand jury decision that the largest number of people were white. They said that racism in our community took their black or brown friends to the local coffee shop to discuss their latest mission trip to (fill in any african country) and they still don't get it.
However it is easy to spot these individuals because they always start their sentences with " my gay friend so and so" or my black friend so and so" and they still don't get it.
You don't hear people in the LGBT community saying my heterosexual friend so and so, and they still don't get it.

Just my 2 cents.

[bravenak]

123. +1

All of that!!

[Nye Bevan]

127. I must say, I still don't quite get the complaints about white people protesting police brutality.

It seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing.

[janlyn]

133. It wasn't so much about whites attending protests,

but about a certain set who have to show off how open minded they are, the same set who live in all white neighborhoods and would be the first to call the police if a person of color was spotted on their street.

[Number23]

116. What else could you expect from DU? There was a post a few days ago from someone trying to tell

me that the "vast majority" of white people supported MLK during the Civil Rights Movement. I mean, with cluelessness and revisionism like that, it's no surprise that the OPs REPEATED posts on this topic go the way that they go.

The history of this country is littered with the majority dictating to the minority what is and is not important. Littered with white people telling people of color that our (social, economic, cultural) concerns are not important. Why the hell would this be any different?

[Nye Bevan]

130. To be fair, my OP was asking the community a question,

which is kind of the opposite of "telling people what is important".

[kwassa]

136. No, it was you in your inimitable way suggesting it was unimportant.

I could give my true opinion of you and your participation on DU, but it would be immediately be hidden.

Quite an agenda you are pushing.

[Nye Bevan]

140. It's great to see the jury system working to encourage civility (nt)

[kwassa]

142. Such as it is. Civility does not, however, imply respect.

I could not respect you less.

[JustAnotherGen]

163. Ditto you

And the jury system says I have to play nice - but that's all.

[Number23]

155. Not only would I TRULY like to echo kwassa's sentiment expressed in post #142

I'd like to also note that if you gave a damn about what the people most affected by cultural appropriation thought on the topic, you'd post this poll is the AA, Asian and Hispanic forums so that the two dozen (at most) non-whites that have not been run off by posters such as yourself may be able to better expand on their positions.

[aikoaiko]

71. I get that it doesn't feel great to see a member of a historically dominant culture take on aspects

of the minority culture. Especially if that person is making millions of dollars while doing it.

Overall it appears to be a good thing for the minority culture when majority culture welcomes culture.

I don't include ridicule in that. Black face, goofy mascots, etc.

[kwassa]

112. I actually think of it every time I read your username.

I don't know the source of your name, but it reminds me of "Iko Iko" a famous African-American street song from New Orleans, from the tradition of the Mardi Gras Indians. Speaking of appropriation. This song has two other titles and many different lyrics, and been recorded by many, many people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iko_Iko

and here is the lyrics from the Dr. John version:

My grandma and your grandma were
Sit-tin' by the fire. - My grandma told
Your grandma "I'm gonna set your flag on fire."

Talk-in' 'bout, Hey now ! Hey now ! I-KO, I-KO, un-day
Jack-a-mo fee-no ai na-na. - Jock-a-mo fee na-na

Look at my king all dressed in red
I-KO, I-KO, un-day. I betcha five dollars he'll kill youdead
Jack-a-mo fee na-na

Talk-in' 'bout, Hey now ! Hey now ! I-KO, I-KO, un-day
Jack-a-mo fee-no ai na-n?. - Jock-a-mo fee na-n?

My flag boy and your flag boy were
Sit-tin' by the fire. - My flag boy told
Your flag boy "I'm gonna set your flag on fire."

Talk-in' 'bout, Hey now ! Hey now ! I-KO, I-KO, un-day
Jack-a-mo fee-no ai na-n?. - Jock-a-mo fee na-n?

See that guy all dressed in green ?
I-KO, I-KO, un-day. He's not a man
He's a lov-in' machine
Jack-a mo fee na-n?

Talk-in' 'bout, Hey now ! Hey now ! I-KO, I-KO, un-day
Jack-a-mo fee-no ai na-n?. - Jock-a-mo fee na-n?

[aikoaiko]

132. aiko is an alternative, less common spelling for iko, so I've been told

I learned it as aiko when I was making tapes of dead shows in north jersey and it just stuck with me.

aiko aiko all day

[NutmegYankee]

86. When people eat Weiners, Frankfurters, Hamburgers, or go to a Delicatessen, or kindergarden

Do they ever think of the Germans who brought those traditions as part of their culture? Hell, the Freaking Christmas Tree was a German culture item appropriated by nearly the entire world in the last century!

It's everywhere. The USA is a giant melting pot of culture. All cultures.

[4139]

100. Better example: John Lennon and the Beatles were evil because...

...they wore Nehru jackets.

Hmm, I remember the 'British Invasion' and half the world started singing with badly faked British accents.

Pop-culture is not culture. And pop-culture is very fluid

[Number23]

98. My, you are just super INVESTED in this, aren't ya???? Putting up poll after poll about this

and when the results from DU's largely white and substantially older population chime in with the "it's not affecting me, so who cares?" this will mean exactly WHAT to you or to anybody else?

[Blue_In_AK]

102. What is your solution

for how white people of good will should deal with this issue -- and I'm asking this sincerely. If we appreciate African-American culture and attempt to emulate parts of it, we're appropriating. If we remove ourselves from it entirely, we're discriminating or segregating.

I think the problem here for many of us in the dominant culture is that we don't know exactly how you want us to behave. I've even seen criticism of "white guilt" liberals participating in the protests.

[Number23]

115. Appreciating and appropriating are not the same thing

Seeing white models parading up and down a Paris runway in hoop earrings, gelled down "baby hair" and other things are appropriation. Primarily because the white fashion industry is still about 147 years behind the rest of the world in terms of diversity and black, Asian, Latina, Arab and other women have been notoriously barred from being decision makers or even the face of the fashion industry.

White people still run the Western media and call all of the shots. That's pretty much indisputable. When more POC are brought in as designers, models, fashion editors etc. and are involved in the process from start to finish there would be less instances of people talking about "appropriation" because people of color would be involved in the process from the get go. And as a result, there would likely be less instances of a woman of color okay this type of foolishness of white women in blackface or running around chucking spears and would help the fashion industry save face as well as be more representative in the first place. See how that works? And that's one example.

It is damn near 2015 and when I want to show my daughters music made by strong, gorgeous black women, I have to go back to the freaking 1990s. It is damn near 2015 and I am showing my daughter Jody Whatley, En Vogue, the Good Girls etc. because there is practically no strong black female presence in music right now. It is worse now than it was 20 years ago, and the movie, fashion and other media industries are no better. Things are going backwards. So when there is more genuine representation of the people who actually CREATED the music/fashion/style/etc. then there will probably be fewer cries about appropriation when white people with 1/3 of the style and talent start making more money and getting more press than the people steeped in the culture.

[Blue_In_AK]

135. I understand what you're saying with regard to the music and fashion industries,

but what can we "ordinary" white people do to alleviate the hurt feelings other than not buying the fashions or the music? Most of us aren't industry moguls and want to do the right thing as far as black-white relations, so what can we do? I get that you're pissed off at the power structure, with good reason - as are a lot of us, no matter what our ethnicity - but what do we do about it?

[Number23]

156. For one thing, stop telling people of color that this issue (and others that we want to address) are

"insignificant," a "distraction" and other such demeaning and dismissive terms. I'm not saying that you did this (I have no idea if you have or not) but the 100 or so people that voted that way in this person's poll sure as hell have.

And I give props to Randy1, steve, rbrnmw, sheshe, Cha, Tobin and a bunch of other white posters here who have not only gone out of their way to NOT dismiss our feelings but to try to educate other white posters that have done this on how hurtful and dismissive they are being. That's something every single white person can do, mogul or not.

[Blue_In_AK]

157. I didn't vote in this poll

and have generally stayed out of the discussion. People who voted that the debate is "ridiculous" obviously did so from different perspectives, since I see that Bravenak is among that group, and I know how passionate she is about this.

I was taught not to discriminate from a very young age (Quaker heritage, abolitionist ancestors) and never really experienced institutional racism until I moved to Pasadena, Texas, in 1962. My high school was lily white, but I went to the Unversity of Houston the same years that UH got its first black athletes, Elvin Hayes among others, and we were friends. I always found in those days that the black people were much more accepting of these relationships than my white "friends" were. It was a pretty tense time in 1966, interracial relationships, even friendships, were certainly not accepted in Houston, Texas, then. I got called a lot of names, and there were some fearful times as police riots were going on at Texas Southern, a few blocks away.

I hate that now, almost 50 years later, we seem no closer to closing this racial gap. People are people, we're all the same under the skin, and all the hate and prejudice just makes me sick.

[Nye Bevan]

103. I posted two polls, including this one, but the first was specifically on Katy Perry's cornrows.

So I guess yes, that technically is indeed "poll after poll".

As people are still voting I am going to hold back at this point from commenting on the results.

[Number23]

117. We all wait with baited breath on your groundbreaking and no doubt culturally astute pronouncement

[Nye Bevan]

119. It's actually "bated breath" (no "i") (nt)

[Number23]

120. No, when dealing with flame bait, it's exactly as I posted.

[LittleBlue]

99. Many in this thread are confusing education with disagreement

Assumption: If only people would educate themselves, they'd come around to my viewpoint.

Reality: People are aware of your arguments, they just disagree.

The disconnect between the two is one of the most common logical fallacies in existence. One could be educated on the concept of creationism, but that doesn't mean the natural course is to agree with that position.

[abelenkpe]

111. Er, wait, what?

I put my kids hair in cornrows before swim meets to get their hair as close to their head as possible, so they go faster. Is this wrong? They have curly red hair...

[kwassa]

129. Shave their heads, if you are really interested in speed.

and educate yourself on the topic from someone who knows something about it.

[abelenkpe]

137. Yeah I know eventually

If he keeps up with swim team he'll probably shave his head. He wins most his events right now in his current age group but that will change when he moves up to the next one. Thing is the girls love his hair. It's long and super curly. They always want to play with it. His girl friend (he's only ten though) was the first to do his hair for a meet. She's Ghanaian. But if it's going to offend others maybe we'll just French braid that stuff and tuck it in.

[Spider Jerusalem]

113. How generally clueless and ignorant are you, exactly?

I would have to say the answer seems to be "extremely". Few things: One, the "cultural appropriation" discussion, so far as I have been aware, has nothing whatever to do with Katy Perry's hairstyle (that was an example mooted by another clueless white person that you're seizing on for some bizarre reason). The "cultural appropriation" issue came up because of Iggy Azalea (who is, by the way, Australian) putting on a fake "black girl from the ATL" accent for her music. Which some have criticised as being the musical equivalent of blackface. I can't really say I disagree; it's a contrived and manufactured persona (as noted, she's Australian, and her speaking voice is 100% different); this isn't Eminem who grew up rough on the wrong side of Detroit and isn't "appropriating" anything.

[Number23]

118. "I would have to say the answer seems to be "extremely"."

Once again, we're on the same page.

[Nye Bevan]

125. Here's the original thread citing Katy Perry's cornrows:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026002912

I have to say, I don't think you're being entirely fair by referring to this poster as a "clueless white person".

[Spider Jerusalem]

126. That isn't the original thread about "cultural appropriation".

So you can stop being disingenuous.

[Nye Bevan]

128. It was the first one I saw.

Sorry if I missed any earlier ones. I was probably wrapping presents or something.

[gollygee]

131. The article uses that as an example

It isn't just about one person and one hairstyle.

[LittleBlue]

144. This poll is actually informative

It shows that support for the theory of cultural appropriation is very small, even on place that would naturally be more receptive to it like DU.

[Spider Jerusalem]

145. "Naturally be more receptive"?

I'm not sure why you think that. My experience of DU is that it's fairly reactionary on some issues in ways that reflect the overall demographic of most active posters (white, middle-class, and middle-aged).

[LittleBlue]

148. Yeah, but we're still 95% Democrats

Mix in the 70% or so of the country that self-identifies as Republican/indy and that number gets smaller.

[U4ikLefty]

159. Iggy Azalea apparently spent half her teen years in the south.

Not that I'm defending her, but she probably picked up her "style" as a result of developing her "skills" in the south.

That being said, this is a d-bag poll and I can see why people are getting pissed.

Now if I want to see a white woman rapping badly, I will watch something that is sooooo bad that it's good:

[Yo_Mama]

154. Cultural appropriation is what humans do.

It's sort of like "information wants to be free".

[WinkyDink]

158. We have a culture?

[ileus]

162. I'm one of the proud 3%

[JustAnotherGen]

164. How interesting the respondents to this

107 thus far. . .


What a quiet bunch! Just so quiet and pleasant. . . civil.

[alarimer]

165. Ask the Rolling Stones or the Beatles.

They did it long before.

Many rock artists simply stole songs (especially blues) and used them for their own means without attribution and royalties. Now, maybe copyrights for some of those old, old songs existed in some gray areas, but there was no doubt they lifted them wholesale.

I think this is generally a difficult topic because culture is so global these days.