America

[sheshe2]

It should be beautiful...It can be beautiful. We can do this. We can. I know we have it in our hearts and our souls. We can do it we just need to try a little harder. We need to talk and listen and really want this. Change is never easy, is it? You have to want it and we damn well have to fight together to get it.

"http://vimeo.com/18429639

















America the Beautiful
Words by Katharine Lee Bates,
Melody by Samuel Ward

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

O beautiful for pilgrim feet
Whose stern impassioned stress
A thoroughfare of freedom beat
Across the wilderness!
America! America!
God mend thine every flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law!

O beautiful for heroes proved
In liberating strife.
Who more than self their country loved
And mercy more than life!
America! America!
May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness
And every gain divine!

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!

http://www.scoutsongs.com/lyrics/americathebeautiful.html

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Certainly, the TPP will help the ever-growing population

of homeless children.

Yay!

Those little imps are learning a valuable lesson about staying competitive. And about quid pro quo.

[MannyGoldstein]

4. Your post was about Black Americans?

You didn't state that, and I guess I'm color-blind on the pictures.

Certainly, we can do better with regard to black Americans.

Do you think that another massive free trade deal will help them? Or cutting - not slashing - Social Security?

[sheshe2]

5. What don't you get about my damn Op!

Wow. I had to state what my Op was about? Are you serious!!!!! Did you see the pics? Did you watch the vid?

TPP is your damn answer to everything! Answer the OP if you can figure it out. It really is not all that difficult. There are pictures and everything. Not hard to follow.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. So you want Americans to see black Americans as

Just ordinary Americans, but when I actually do that I'm a bad person?

That's a little confusing to me.

[bravenak]

8. Bull.

I love your games.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. That's mean and uncalled for. nt

[bravenak]

13. What? I think you ignoring the subject of the op was intentional.

You only want to discuss the TPP. I feel like I could drop dead and on the RIP Bravenak thread, Manny will say, "See? I told you the TPP was dangerous!"

[JustAnotherGen]

36. Totally not surprised

By some of this thot behavior.

[bravenak]

60. Same old same old.

Things never change. I love how they play ignorant, though. It's funny in a 'good grief!' sort of way.

[sheshe2]

140. It's a game to some.

Just a effing game bravenak.

[bravenak]

142. I know it is.

Don't let it get to you.

[sheshe2]

143. I am trying.

Ya, it hurts when I am feeling low. I always come around.

I won't stop fighting.

[Fred Sanders]

86. I slipped and fell in the snow today, I blame the TPP.

[bravenak]

88. LOL!nt

[LanternWaste]

54. Accuracy is often considered mean.

Accuracy is often considered mean.

[sheshe2]

9. What exactly does TPP have to do with my OP!

Last edited Mon Jan 12, 2015, 03:40 AM - Edit history (1)

[MannyGoldstein]

12. I saw your OP as a general post about the need

for America to do better. The economic devastation brought on by decades of free trade agreements purchased from politicians for a few silver coins is a good place to start.

[sheshe2]

16. Clue~

My Op has to do with white privileged racist police officers murdering black men. Why was that so hard for you to understand? You do know about all the recent murders do you not?

Why are you so suddenly interested in my Op? Why?

[sheshe2]

23. So Manny.

Now that you know that my Op had nothing to do with TPP. So sorry you misunderstood that. I will be far more clear next time I post so that you will be able to understand.

Care to comment on racism and black men in America being murdered by cop? Which clearly the Op was about, yet you wanted to derail it. So now that you are focused I would love to hear your comments. You have been silent about this topic. Strangely silent. Very silent on DU. Yet when I post, you derail. Why?

[MannyGoldstein]

32. I have certainly written OPs on that topic

Try using DU's search function. Your accusation is unwarranted and grotesque.

[1StrongBlackMan]

45. LOL ...

Perhaps you/we should post at the top of each OP:

Author's Note: This OP has nothing to do with the TPP, Jailing the Banksters, Torture, Drones, or Snowden, GG, the NSA or Putin, or any of the other issues DU 'Progressive' find more important."

[JustAnotherGen]

47. That's an awesome idea - New Disclaimer!

[sheshe2]

57. I think that is an excellent idea.

Since many Ops appear to be very unclear in there meaning. Seems they are being left wide open to interpretation.

[sheshe2]

26. Oh stop the bull!

You never post Ops about the deaths of our black youth. Ssssh~ you are so silent. So very silent. You are saying you had no clue that I was talking about black lives? Yet now you found your voice Manny. You are here derailing my voice with TPP bullshit.

[Veilex]

14. Results of your Jury Service

I understand Sheshe's frustration, and Manny's desire to keep TPP at the forefront... this is a no-win discussion for me.

Sorry Sheshe, but I had to vote to leave it.

On Sun Jan 11, 2015, 09:50 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Your post was about Black Americans?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6074318

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

disrupting a thread for his own agenda, and falsely claiming he didn't know the post was about African Americans. All you have to do is look at the photos, but this poster is intent on making it all about himself and what he wants.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Jan 11, 2015, 09:58 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with the alerter. The agenda is obvious to almost everyone here.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: why was this alerted on? He is asking for clarification with honesty.
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Behind the Aegis]

19. I was #2

[sheshe2]

22. Thank you!

[MannyGoldstein]

35. You were partially correct

71% of that jury did understand the "agenda".

[Bobbie Jo]

39. Was just thinking

as I was reading the results, I agree with juror #2, then here you are.

[1StrongBlackMan]

34. Don't stress or be distracted ...

the above is a perfect example of our "progressives of DU" allies ... willing to ignore issues/thoughts in favor of their singular pursuit of the American status quo that was promised to them, and denied.

[JustAnotherGen]

37. +100

And when I see some of the nonsense I see at DU -

They should be lucky I'm a social liberal - because it makes me want to be FOR certain things just to stick it to them. . . that benefit me financially.

I can only see 'wins' for my annual bonus - in keeping the Koch brothers and Pentagon happy. I'm willing to take a hit on my money for these people - and they are such massive ingrates that they can't just be respectful when it's something that actually matters to me.

[1StrongBlackMan]

43. I know, huh ...

I'm glad you said it ... I support an economic platform that would actually be contrary to the economic interests of my family and me (and have said so, numerous times). But I support a redistributionist platform, not for myself, but for those far lower on the economic ladder; whereas, I continue to see the DU progressive, as not caring about that cohort, but rather, their own purse. This can be seen in all the calls of "Let's go over the debt limit cliff" ... "Let's let government shut down", in order to get higher taxation of the wealthy!

Yes, that higher taxation eventually will trickle down to the homeless, the long-term unemployed, the SNAP recipient; but only if the gambit is successful and only after the effects of the defunded programs hit the poor.

[JustAnotherGen]

46. ITA

Which I'll say again - it makes me wonder how many here 'cry poor' versus those who are truly struggling?

It's real easy to say 'let snap' shut down when you are the 'smug comfy' who isn't going to have a hungry child go to bed that night.

[1StrongBlackMan]

55. I know ...

It's real easy to say 'let snap' shut down when you are the 'smug comfy' who isn't going to have a hungry child go to bed that night.

But ... It'll be better for them in the long run; once, their purse is secure ... just like, racism will go away, once their purse is secure.

it makes me wonder how many here 'cry poor' versus those who are truly struggling?

Well, we know (can guess at) the status of one such poster.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024013403

Clearly, his concern is more about the status quo's betrayal of him, personally, than a concern about whether a SNAP recipient eats, today.

{Note to Jury ... The truth hurts.}

[JustAnotherGen]

58. All kinds of truthy like butt hurt in that thread

frazzled? Wow!

[BainsBane]

69. I don't think most are poor

Certainly that poll of income done a while back would suggest otherwise. Also if you look at what they talk about, most of it is about which politician is or should be in power and what they think of political appointments. It seems a lot more about contests among political elites than class issues. I think class is merely a way to divert from discussions of race, not their fundamental concern. For poor people, it makes a good bit of difference if a Republican or Democrat is in office, but some here insist there is no such difference. One even celebrated the defeat of a Democratic Senator in an OP, in a state with one of the highest poverty rates in the nation. I think the sense of self-entitlement some express would not be possible if they had grown up poor in America.

[JustAnotherGen]

70. This BB

I think the sense of self-entitlement some express would not be possible if they had grown up poor in America.

That's it. That's why I don't believe some of their poor me stuff. I think it's more - I don't have EVERYTHING I was supposed to get based on xyz factors and I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.

It's petulant.

That's how it feels . . . petulant.

[TheKentuckian]

71. What is lucky? Folks like you have gotten exactly what they want a party that advances their class

interests while allowing them to play culture warrior.

Like the Kochs or the MIC are not doing better than ever! O' how the tide was turned by your strength against this foul folk!

Ingrates! What swollen pride is that?!? That that false nobility and shove it, run off to the regressives if they serve your needs because fuck no your fake ass sacrifices will never be appreciated because they are vapor.

Your "sacrifice" is to toss a few crumbs to poorest of the poor while savagely yanking up the ladders to prosperity behind you.

Poor, poor "we built that" Democrats, what would come of us without your noble sacrifices.

You aren't really an advocate for minorities if you would close off our horizons, leave us destitute, and do nothing or even cheer as we are driven toward poverty and ambitions for us and our children crushed.

There is no picking here. If you don't care about my prosperity and opportunities then you don't give a shit about my rights except as a means to maintain or grow your own.

AND

If you claim to care about my prosperity and opportunities but aren't interested in my rights then you are using me to support and increase your own.

In America though being broke or even struggling is a set of self perpetuating problems that is brutal and the Venn diagram of the poor, near poor, and working at a living wage but closer to poor than most can admit and of minorities is some serious correlation.
The percentage of minority people outside the convergence is significantly less than it is for whites.

The intersection of class and race concerns is substantial, far too substantial to pretend any serious interest in the needs of race while blowing off the same's economic interests. It is delusion at best and a willful lie to protect those class interests at worse.

[JustAnotherGen]

77. I gotta disagree

Some of the handed down wealth came from my black paternal Grandfather - an almost lifelong Republican. He saw opportunities and just took them I suppose. Granted he was born at turn of the last century and he had to work Around America and J.C. To get ahead - but I'm proud of every single law he broke.

My derision comes from people who want me to kiss Snowden and Greenwald's asses and scream about the TPP and tell me my nephews have to "wait" until all the white men are ALL happy to ensure the get equal protection and due process before the law.

Fuck that.

They can be mad - see if I care.

It pisses me off when 1Strong gets profiled as he did in September. Those public servants need to get in their place and show some respect.

No one likes that I wrote that? They can be mad.

It is 2015. I'm not waiting anymore.

I played by white America's rules - beat some at the game and now folks want to be mad about that? And the same people who will get mad will call me a nigger when I turn my back? They can go fuck themselves.

From before the Boston Tea Party white men have been angry in what is now America. There is always going to be greed, envy, and anger there. I not have any time for that. Go be angry elsewhere, stop denying that racial prejudice exists, stop denying that sexism exists, and stop pretending like gay people are hurting anything.


Now they can either get with the program and acknowledge that Slavery By Any other Name has been a concerted effort to keep black folks disenfranchised and in poverty or get out of my way while I bypass them to help another black person get up.


It's their choice - but they can't have that snotty attitude "well we did this for you."

No they didn't. My parents did. And the single biggest contributor to my wealth today has to do with a black man who couldn't get a job on Wall street with his 4 year degree, went back home to 'Bama and said fuck you USA! Liquor, wine, booze, organized crime and he always paid his taxes because his father handed den to him several farms he could launder the money through.

They lynched his brother - got away with it - so America had it coming.

[bravenak]

87. That's what I'm talking about!nt

[TheKentuckian]

107. Nobody is helping me and mine up we are on our own, we have to get out here and work it is our

survival in the present and all we have to build on in the future don't tell me I have to wait, don't tell my niece and nephew they have to wait, don't tell my unborn child they have to wait because there is no waiting, you stop swimming you drown in this world and nobody is fixing to drown while some few relatively powerless people demand a fucking conversation instead of policies to increase self determination, independence, and prosperity.

Then the "consequences" of not having the "conversation" (whatever that is and whatever it can do) is more poverty, less independence, and more poverty supposedly to punish whites but when you look at demographics and trends that the weight falls heaviest on those you are supposed to be passionate about lifting up.

FUCK THAT!

If you oppose my class interests then you are opposing my race interests as well and if you magically can you are still opposing the needs and interests of myself, my family, and my friends and I won't be playing along, instead if it's a fight tooth and nail because you are trying to fuck me and mine over in favor of the interests of the central oppressors and architects and chief profiteers of racist power structures while hiding behind some crusade all but devoid of actionable items.

It seems deeply at odds with any decent aim that the lion's share of "the plan" to achieve them is just more of the same, increasing the dragon's hoard of the same oppressors, and strip mining the Bill of Rights into nonexistence.

Seems awfully convenient to me and much likely using black people as human shields to protect your class interests to me. More poverty and less opportunity is not the fix for people of color in this country, tired of waiting? Well for most of us all is happening is the line is getting longer.

Don't give me this shit, you sink the boat and you KNOW who gets the lifeboats and it ain't us.

You want to punish Pharaoh? Making him richer, more powerful, and separated from the people while forgetting the instructions on having the Angel of Death pass our houses is not going to do it at all. Particularly when the plan isn't designed for the pharaoh anyway but to punish his lowest subjects until they free God's people is questionable at best anyway.

Seems the only heart that has been hardened is your own to the cries of your own people.

[JustAnotherGen]

108. Seriously?

I'm proud of you.

Everyone for themselves!

Because all I got out of that was you are out for yourself.

Which is how the world works.

[bravenak]

112. Sounds like Ben Carson.

[JustAnotherGen]

113. I don't know about that

Sounds like someone trying to hoodwink me into believing that a poor white guy in a square state clinging to his gun, god, and a flag wouldn't take a pot shot at a young african american kid . . . if it meant he could hit the big time with book tours, gun show appearances, fox news appearances, etc. etc.

The easiest way to become an 'star' in America seems to be to inflict pain and sadism on black people.

[bravenak]

115. That's what Ben does.

When people lose that connection to others they get very angry in a 'nobody done shit for me and mine!', kinda way. They forget how we need to stick together or else. Always been that way and will be for some time. Never forget what Malcolm said about liberals. I always remember that if i start forgetting where I come from and get all high and mighty. People died so I can be able t say the things I say to, heaven forbid, white people. Ain't nan one of us made it alone.

[JustAnotherGen]

116. Well said brave

Ain't nan one of us made it alone.

And so many of us fall for the b.s. line that 'America [white] Gave up something so we could have something' when we bring it down to the personal history and family history -

It's because someone had the guts to be a shoe shine boy.
Some one got off of the share crop system.
Someone (in my case) ran to Mexico in 1859 to escape slavery.
Someone taught their daughter to look at the man - not the color of his skin.
Someone worked two jobs to get their kid through university . . .

Someone paid high way robbery interests rates for a piece of shit house in a white flight section of town.

[bravenak]

117. Damn straight!

Everything you just said and more. My grandmama scrubbed the floors at the beer garden in Pittsburg. Her pay was nearly nothing, but, she managed to pick up all if the loose change while she was scrubbing away, to buy her 10 kids shoes for school. The Jewish Charity helped her, NOT AMERICA. When her house burned down they let her move her kids into a huge house that they stayed in until my uncle robbed a bank. Oops. He just wanted to help, though. Life was rough.

My generation got to finish High School, spend a bit of time in college. No endless suffering. Thanks to one woman, who was 4'9" and 85 pounds. She scrubbed the entire neighborhood and the went to her second job at the laundry. I have it sooo easy. I don't even work unless I want extra money just for me. Maybe next year I'll work. Nobody in my family ever got a choice like me.

[JustAnotherGen]

118. This . . .

I don't even work unless I want extra money just for me. Maybe next year I'll work. Nobody in my family ever got a choice like me.

[TheKentuckian]

122. How would it "sound like that" to you when I said nary a word about what any white anybody, anywhere

would do should their ship come in.

Trying to hoodwink you into a premise I never mentioned much less advanced? Absurd. Dishonest. Despicable.

The only hoodwinking is this bizarre insistence that most black and brown folks aren't working class, that somehow we are all either less than destitute or between upwardly mobile and comfortably well off so silly shit like wages, public schools, availability of jobs, access to affordable higher education, rents, property costs, Social Security, labor rights, trade agreements, and it goes on for days doesn't matter except to whites who supposedly are being punished (right!) or some such delusional nonsense.

Every response just shows you are about your class interests and are using minorities as a disgusting human shield while you add your heel to the oppressors to do it.

There is no nobility in Operation: Expand and Deepen Black Poverty no matter how you frame it. If you crush working people you crush black and brown people the hardest, that isn't any kind of advocacy I'm interested in and no I am not thankful nor is anyone I know.

If that is your help then please focus on yourself, be selfish as you can be because your help would put me and mine in a hole.

[TheKentuckian]

120. And you sound like you will say anything and misrepresent anyone to "win" an argument on the interne

if you think I have shit in common with Ben Carson.

Now, if you believe that what Ben Carson is talking about is the need for opportunity rather than embracing some economic dystopia for working class people (which happens to contain virtually all people of color) supposedly to bring about some "national dialog on race" which then will lead to something magical or another happening and then we can then all move forward together and in short order will restore prosperity to the many.

Meanwhile though we will further strengthen oppressive systems while empowering and enriching the people behind the racist institutions that have been greedily prospering from oppression. BULLSHIT! It is pure nonsense and puts you in concert with the people with the heel of their boots on our faces.

Few piecing together 3 or 4 crappy jobs, navigating crappy bus lines, and raising a family are going to know what is happening much less be able to be active in political efforts or have influence in but the rare off chance.

If Ben Carson preaches that the needy and the destitute have no power and no voice (at this point virtually by law considering recent Supreme Court rulings) in America then I'll won't be ashamed to agree and will defy you to argue how it isn't all but an incontrovertible fact in this country at this time.

Don't want to care about economics? Whatever though I say it is an absurd proposition if you want to talk politics nor are such concerns magically isolated to whites, in fact they press on us harder in my opinion but to say Carson and I have similar policy positions is crazy talk.

I got a lot of posts on here, my positions are consistent and I'm pretty comfortable the universe that is made of Carson and my common beliefs is a tiny motherfucker largely consisting of the water is wet variety stuff.

[bravenak]

121. It's the way he pushes his own agenda, regardless of the subject or where he is.

Arrogance. If we are discussing race relations, and people angrily poo poo that in favor of their agenda of TPP all fucking day, then yeah. That's whats up.
If you think that income equality will magically make racism dissappear, I'm sorry for you. Blinders. Even when we helped bulid this nation for free, there was no equality.
Much of the poverty is based on RACE. Policies put in place to help a particular group MOST of all and redline the rest of us. Being pissed at me for saying take the fucking TPP talk to the fucking TPP threads is ignorant.
Talk economics on threads that are about economics. I won't insert myself to discuss race the way y'all push your agenda here. I never do. It's rude. Like Ben Carson.

[JustAnotherGen]

124. Oh snap!

[TheKentuckian]

137. Of course I don't believe anything of the sort. What I do believe is more poverty and fewer

opportunities make bad far, far worse and magnified.

I came into the thread to support it and sure as hell have not been on any nowhere to be found list in this arena but I don't hold with the premise of the argument and in fact find it destructive and bordering on insane so being capable of more than one thought at a time, I'm going to argue it because I believe it is wrong and no context is going to make it right.

I've been homeless, I grew up ashamed in the store as the cashier announced that I had food stamps, I lived in the shitty neighborhoods, know the family wide desperation to avoid the garbage schools, I saw how my mother looked when she had to tell me we couldn't squeeze out a nothing violin rental, I know what it is like to put out resumes by the hundreds hoping against hope that something hits before you get put out, I've not known where the next meal is coming from, I've had to think about how to maximize plasma donation days in a month, I know what it is like to literally be praying for the grant money to come through so books could be bought before I fell to far behind, I know about having to drop out to work because I couldn't keep myself fed and have not forgotten to helpless resignation in my mother's voice as I announced the decision, knowing she could offer nothing to change the course.

Hey though, no pity party here. I had it good compared to some, at least as a little kid I had grandparents that could ease some pressure.
Everybody has a story and hard times but yeah I might have some blinders because I'm not hearing for a second that economic issues don't matter.
From my shoes it is beyond crazy talk, there won't be any PRACTICAL AND PRACTICABLE racial equality if we are all destitute serfs with a horizon so close you can taste it if you stick your tongue out and no it doesn't matter if whites are drug down too and no I don't think that will do a damn thing to even dent racism much less end it in this country.

There is little empowerment in being necessitous and I won't apologize for believing that and contesting it when I see it. You gonna hold your tongue on some crazy bullshit that Jim Crow was okay, blacks just need more money because it is an "economic" thread? Fuck no and I'm not going to either it is a delusional expectation.

Now, I'm about to bring my own child into this world and to me it is more critical than ever that there be opportunities and wages so I can support them and so in time they can prosper not less so.

Rent, food, heat, lights, opportunity for enlightenment, insurance all require the fierce urgency of now none accept post national discussion on race vouchers, not a one.

My family and friends are talking about making it and/or getting off the scuffle. Talking jobs and wages. Talking about costs in the store. Where the good schools are. How much property costs and where it is. How the fuck can we retire.
Completely critical.

[bravenak]

139. Ok. Here is my point.

The economic injustices are tied to race in the case of the black american. There has been no time in history that being black was not a burden.
What I see in my generation is this- we have a generation growing up without fathers, angry, and hopeless. And it was by design. If 1/4 of our men spend time in prison based off of the racist ass drug war, we will be left behind regardless as a people. This is by design.
Once you have been to prison, you are not employable and your wages do not rise with everyone else. You cannot vote. Your children are grown and doing what you did to get in prison. It is by design. There will be no economic equality for US until we fix the racial element. Period. Nobody cares if felons get jobs or have good pay, and look who the felons are. Black men. Another generation wasted in the drug war designed to keep us poor, just as share cropping was designed to keep us poor.
Our poverty is tied to the fact that we are treated differently. We will never receive our fair share that we deserve unless we demand our fair share. And we will never get that until this racist system is destroyed and rebuilt properly.
As far as the TPP is concerned... The TPP has done nothing to oppress me. It doesn't even exist yet. I do not borrow trouble. There is enough here.
I watch the people who scream TPP and yell that racism will be solved by economic equality. Bullcrap. They never show up in support of black people or even say they care about the fear we have for our sons. They just pretend that them being poor mean white privilege is not real. Because its really is all about them. Should I trust those folks who don't give a crap now, to be fair in the end after they get what they want? Hell no. America has NEVER kept a promise to the black man or the red man fully. We get the left overs and excuses. Our black men won't get shit. They'll get what they been getting. Prison.
So. They can TPP away from me. This is just like Chained CPI to me. Gnashing of teeth and wailing about their own pocketbooks.

[TheKentuckian]

144. That's fine, bravenak. I don't substantially disagree but it is to my perception besides the point

It just doesn't change not even a tiny bit of what real people's real needs are.

For most of us there is no working when extra is wanted, ha ha...maybe next year. All I hear is "let them eat cake" almost as some revenge fantasy to make shifty whitey get his come upins.

Sorry that is not putting shit on my table, paying one bill, knocking out rent, saving a dime, or anything I have to do to survive and hopefully thrive. Certainly for my child to thrive.

I'm not one bit mad at anyone "Gnashing of teeth and wailing about their own pocketbooks.", what the hell else is ANYONE supposed to do? How is anyone in present day America sanely not doing so unless they are in the rare position of not having to?

I don't get it here. This stuff seems way, way to basic to have to explain to anyone but to small children and the trust fund set. Shelter, food, heat, water, medicine, education, experiences, recreation all require money and in this country if you are not capital then it comes from work, welfare, or charity and for most of us only the 1st item really applies.

Now, if you shrink the pool of jobs and gut wages in general then it gets very dicey and wants get chopped and needs are struggled toward. Now the racial element then blows up hard because guess who gets to the front of the line and who then doesn't even get leftovers...US.

All I'm hearing is how my less than ideal situation can become a world of shit supposedly for my benefit at some undefined time through some undefined process unless I missed something along the way.

[bravenak]

145. What you say you hear from me is what i hear from them.

We'll solve it later. Eventually.
The TPP has done absolutely nothing yet. The drug war and racism on the other hand, has been crushing us for centuries. And the anti TPP ain't paying my way at all. No TPP just means status quo.
But, since I deal with people who are living in the sgadows of the drug war, I see how later mean their kids grow up angry and broke and lonely right now, whether TPP comes or no.
My only problem is some oeople like to try to distract fromthe subject of racism and the unequal society by saying we should just join their cause and focus on what they want and help them. I see no offer of reciprocation. Just distraction and nasty comments about how black people should behave to end racism. So, I think it's best for me to do the race threads and the TPP party to TPP on their own.

[TheKentuckian]

146. And if folks call to end the drug war then somebody will just add it to the "white people wanting

something for themselves" list. I'm pretty sure I've seen similar in this very thread.

"Them" seems to be too much of a focus to me, seems you are pretty comfortable with fucking "us" that are already good and fucked as some weird way to get back at or punish "them" and hence we are having this conversation, stone refusal to accept most of us not in jail have to work and bring home a paycheck to survive, care for our families, and hopefully get out from under the best we can.

I also have to say that trying to prevent bad policy is not "borrowing trouble", it is stopping the advance of trouble coming down the pipe before it comes to roost right on your head. Are we supposed to wait for it to curb us and then add it to the shitpile we already have? That is crazy, we've seen this movie before, I'll pass on the 2nd reel if I can.

When Bush was trying to privatize Social Security nobody with any sense at all was saying pay that no mind, it is borrowing trouble and if they did I'd light into their silly ass without mercy. Nothing different here.

[bravenak]

147. I'm fucking us by being commited to my interests instead of focusing on the nonexistant TPP?

Lord, you need help. Really though.
Comfortable fucking 'us' that are good and fucked? Tell that to your buddy who voted for Reagan before I was born and helped get this drug war started. Please do. Cause that is who fucked you. Trickle down economics. Mr. Third Way M. Dude, please. I was born under the policies and politicians that the thread jacker helped put into place, so forgive me if I don't trust him. I am a product of the drug war. I have cousins serving time for fucking weed goddammit. Fuck this bullshit. That's shit is keeping my little cousins fatherless, making the rest of us have to pay to support children that have fathers. My mother raised 2 of my cousins because of imprisoning addicts for the crime of being addicts. Yeah, buddy, this affects me personally. Not to mention other people close to me going through the legal system that is weighed against them. You probably don't have the wherewithal to understand it's people over money that I believe in. Gotta be free before you can reap a bit of benefit. And too many of us ain't free.
Don't try to do a fucking tirade against me, y'all ol asses blaming me for shit I wasn't even around for. I'm supposed to feel guilty for caring about civil rights over other shit you find more important? Please. Some slaves missed the plantation because they were fed better there.

[TheKentuckian]

138. Of course I don't believe anything of the sort. What I do believe is more poverty and fewer

opportunities make bad far, far worse and magnified.

I came into the thread to support it and sure as hell have not been on any nowhere to be found list in this arena but I don't hold with the premise of the argument and in fact find it destructive and bordering on insane so being capable of more than one thought at a time, I'm going to argue it because I believe it is wrong and no context is going to make it right.

I've been homeless, I grew up ashamed in the store as the cashier announced that I had food stamps, I lived in the shitty neighborhoods, know the family wide desperation to avoid the garbage schools, I saw how my mother looked when she had to tell me we couldn't squeeze out a nothing violin rental, I know what it is like to put out resumes by the hundreds hoping against hope that something hits before you get put out, I've not known where the next meal is coming from, I've had to think about how to maximize plasma donation days in a month, I know what it is like to literally be praying for the grant money to come through so books could be bought before I fell to far behind, I know about having to drop out to work because I couldn't keep myself fed and have not forgotten to helpless resignation in my mother's voice as I announced the decision, knowing she could offer nothing to change the course.

Hey though, no pity party here. I had it good compared to some, at least as a little kid I had grandparents that could ease some pressure.
Everybody has a story and hard times but yeah I might have some blinders because I'm not hearing for a second that economic issues don't matter.
From my shoes it is beyond crazy talk, there won't be any PRACTICAL AND PRACTICABLE racial equality if we are all destitute serfs with a horizon so close you can taste it if you stick your tongue out and no it doesn't matter if whites are drug down too and no I don't think that will do a damn thing to even dent racism much less end it in this country.

There is little empowerment in being necessitous and I won't apologize for believing that and contesting it when I see it. You gonna hold your tongue on some crazy bullshit that Jim Crow was okay, blacks just need more money because it is an "economic" thread? Fuck no and I'm not going to either it is a delusional expectation.

Now, I'm about to bring my own child into this world and to me it is more critical than ever that there be opportunities and wages so I can support them and so in time they can prosper not less so.

Rent, food, heat, lights, opportunity for enlightenment, insurance all require the fierce urgency of now none accept post national discussion on race vouchers, not a one.

My family and friends are talking about making it and/or getting off the scuffle. Talking jobs and wages. Talking about costs in the store. Where the good schools are. How much property costs and where it is. How the fuck can we retire.

[TheKentuckian]

119. You have the nerve to call me out for calling for everyone on their own? That is your economic

prescription hiding behind supposed to social liberalism but talking about doing nothing but getting more bread for yourself while pulling the ladders up behind you?

Incredible gall, continue to squeeze and break virtually everyone, particularly people on the bottom of the pile that you know good and we'll are disproportionately those of us you are supposed to champion and call us that need opportunity, wages, and a safety net the selfish ones well you are full of it because there are way more of us than there are comfortably, upwardly mobile types. Your looking out for your well off self, the TeaPubliKlans just aren't viable because you know they will slice your throat in the end and before that you know you'll just be one of their rare tokens that will never drive the agenda so by hook or crook Democrats have to be the vehicle and they can't do that and really oppose your class interests despite empty protests to the opposite.

No, ma'am I am on my own because of a corrupt system run by a greedy relatively few destroying opportunity, crushing wages, scuttling the public schools, milking and selling off the commons, pouring the wealth and future wealth of the country into worthless sand piles, poisoning the water, corrupting the air, depleting the soil, turning the oceans into garbage piles of sludge, advancing corporate capture of government, eroding the sovereignty of the government which in turn undoes democracy and self determination of the people and vesting that sovereignty to the very shitballs that are strip mining us and profiting on a multi generational fashion on our oppresion right now.

Holy Fucking Projection, Batman!

You seriously want to cast almost all of us on a melting ice drift into a cold, shark infested sea and when someone complains about THEY are the one calling for everyone for themselves.

The same person just chuckling about kicking us in steerage in the teeth to add a couple of bits to the portfolio and have the Marie Antoinette level audacity to complain about lack of gratitude for your sacrifices for "the team"?

Oh please. Your class interests have not been sacrificed an iota.

[JustAnotherGen]

123. You're right!

Bravenak - you had a smoke.

I'm having some vino!

[bravenak]

125. I kept rereading it like....

Wha? R U serious? Hell no. Hahahaha!!! Stillfunny!

[JustAnotherGen]

126. G totally wishes I didn't care

He's laughing at me laughing. I'm doing a little community kitchen project and last night was an hour hollering about we need to go back to Uneeda (appliance) and why I'm blasting emails to effing Italy for old Tupperware. He so wishes that was all true.

[bravenak]

127. You feed the homeless and other folks can diss you to whine TPP all day.

We eat babies and shit anyway.
Laughter is the best medicine. If it were actually true, it would gave probably hit a sore spot and sent you off on a rant about how 'ain't nobody did nun for you'. Then you would have tried to tear everyone else apart for perceived sins and wrong doings in an arrogant fashion. But you didn't so... The shoe must not have fit.

[JustAnotherGen]

129. I'm still laughing

I was thinking . . . Do you prefer Chianti or Riesling when you eat them? I think table white lends a bit of a piquant after taste. I've also found a bit of lemon butter dill sauce adds a full bodied taste the legs.

[bravenak]

130. Riesling!! It goes with everything.

Try it with scampi butter or au jus. It hits the palette in all the right spots.
Ahhh, yes, the legs... Such delicacies.

[JustAnotherGen]

131. We ain't right!

[bravenak]

132. I know.

I used to tell my daughter how delicious she looked and promise to bake her for christmas. She thought it was funny. I was serious!

[JustAnotherGen]

133. My husband

Has been known to cover his cheeks around me.

[bravenak]

134. Do you bite?

I do!
Tell him to just go with it. It starts felling good after a while.

[JustAnotherGen]

135. I little nibble here and there

He's got a badonkadonk! I can't resist. I tell if you don't like it then stop running. Easy peasy problem solved.

[bravenak]

136. Lol!!

Stop resisting!!! I'm using that one.

[BainsBane]

128. If the problem is a corrupt system and the 1 percent

Why do you devote so much of your energy to battle with ordinary Americans like those on this board? You act like JAG and 1Strong are your enemies because they dare to care about the murders of thousands of African Americans and don't post about TPP, evidently the only issue you and your friends consider legitimate, besides the all important contests among political elites in DC, of course. Both JAG and ISBM said they support progressive economic policies, but you still let into them. It seems like you see people like them and me as your enemies (since you've adopted the same tone with me in the past when I refused to focus on the all-important hatred against Hillary Clinton, when I had said nothing about Clinton). You aren't even faced with a disagreement here. Rather people are posting about something when you think they should post what you want them to.

[TheKentuckian]

148. The following is not a statement of support, to my eyes

"They should be lucky I'm a social liberal - because it makes me want to be FOR certain things just to stick it to them. . . that benefit me financially. 

I can only see 'wins' for my annual bonus - in keeping the Koch brothers and Pentagon happy. I'm willing to take a hit on my money for these people - and they are such massive ingrates that they can't just be respectful when it's something that actually matters to me."

Sounds like somebody very comfortable or even rich telling us slobs in steerage not only "let them eat cake" but that we are ingrates for the angelic sacrifice of "hits on my money" that don't even exist.

The poster like the Kochs and the MIC haven't sacrificed a red cent on mine or anyone else's behalf.

If that is "support" then I say caucus with and support the TeaPubliKlans if that is what you have to offer. Better a clear enemy than a backstabbing friend in your camp.

As far as Clinton goes this is a piece of the same pie, same mentality.

Also, bullshit on "Rather people are posting about something when you think they should post what you want them to.", it just flat out isn't true.

I've been far from absent from threads on the blue gang or the racist institutions, I have strongly been in solidarity with the victims and these communities, shit I've got the exact same target on my back and have been there. I don't have to justify a damn thing. I know what it is like to be pulled over for driving (and walking too for that matter) while black. I've sat in the cuffs for no reason. I've been searched (shook down) multiple times for nothing, how about you?

What I'm pushing back on is the it doesn't matter/let them eat shit sentiment expressed because it is stupid, counter productive, and false.

Can't preach at me like I don't live it, racially and economically. I'm a subject matter expert by life experience.

[sheshe2]

141. I may be stressed,

however I will not be distracted. And I damn well will not shut up.

The attempt to derail this thread makes me want to come out with a dozen more and I will, just to piss them off and see their true colors.

[bravenak]

3. .

Of course everything is about the TPP. Of course. Everything. All day everyday. No matter the topic, the TPP is much more important. Racism discussed? Focus on the TPP. Talking about the Prison State? Discuss the TPP. Somebody died? More TPP. Unarmed kid shot in the park? Blame the TPP. Always. Only important thing in the world. Nothing else matters really. Only the TPP.

[sheshe2]

7. I am ready to explode right now, bravenak.

Telling myself to breathe. Whoosh. I am having a hard time, k~ breathing and trying to understand what TPP has to do with my Op. Oh right, abso-fuckinglutely nothing!!!!!!!!!!!

[bravenak]

11. He is playing a classic American game.

Feigning ignorance. It's weird, I know, but it's totally transparent. Come to a thread discussing race and America, shit on the TPP, a topic NOT under discussion. I bet he just laughs and laughs.
I always wonder why he never shows up in these type of threads. Now I know. The TPP. It stops him from participating because it is stressing him out so bad, he cannot even think of the topic under discussion.

[1StrongBlackMan]

48. Well ...

always wonder why he never shows up in these type of threads. Now I know. The TPP. It stops him from participating because it is stressing him out so bad, he cannot even think of the topic under discussion.

He speculates that the TPP might negatively affect his purse; whereas, he is relatively certain, racism will never negatively affect him.

[bravenak]

61. Well, the world as we know it will end at TPP oclock.

They make me say, let's push for the TPP.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. You know I understand!

I can't tell you how many threads I have posted which have been derailed with deception or "whataboutery". There are those who see right through deceptive and disingenuous posts.

[sheshe2]

21. I thank you Behind the Aegis!

I love you. I really do. You get it, you got it, you have been there.

[betsuni]

31. I will use "whataboutery" from now on.

Great new word!

[1StrongBlackMan]

49. I love that term! ...

It will save me a bunch of typing to completely convey my response to fully 1/3 of the comments on any thread discussing racism, sexism, or the various forms of misogyny.

Thanks.

[JustAnotherGen]

38. Don't explode sheshe

They are driving me right to supporting the TPP - just to piss them off. I don't get mad - I get vindictive.

I play 'opposite' day.

[NaturalHigh]

91. Unfortunately, I don't see anyone doing much...

to derail the TPP. Even our President seems to favor it.

Too many of these conversations about what ails America leave out the continuing factors that contribute to poverty, and the TPP will certainly be another of those factors.

[bravenak]

93. Take your TPP somewhere else, please.

This is not about the TPP. This is about race relations in America and it is very rude to try to force a subject change. You may need to start a TPP thread instead of ignoring the subject of the op. Although, I am used to seeing people ignore racism in preference of their desired subject. We are nothing to you, we know. You don't have to keep telling us in so many ways. We know. We can tell by the lack of support we receive. But we are just going to have to keep,it up forever I guess. You don't even have to participate or derail ops. Waste of time.

[NaturalHigh]

95. Poverty will always affect race relations.

The TPP will increase poverty and desperation for all races in America and will negatively affect all classes except the elite investor class.

There is a connection, and ignoring it won't make it go away.

[bravenak]

98. Ignoring the voices of those oppressed by racism fixes not a damn thing.

Forcing your pov into this subject is rude. It says to black people 'We can't fix racism until there are no poor white people." It's a nasty sentiment that oozes out.
Telling us that that is more important is nasty. Because even rich Blacks are victims of racism. Even Obama. I can't even post on internet boards without getting called many nasty creative names. I never retaliate. I refuse to jump on the bandwagon and ignore the plight of my people in order to focus on a TPP. My kids do not deserve what they will be getting from America. They do not deserve to be suspects just because they are black. They do not deserve to be called names and be ignored in favor of making white folks more comfy. If we have to still be uncomfortable in our skin in 2015, all of you are going to hear about it until I am dead. And I'm only 33. Either we end the institutional racism or we're fucked. We are just going to get louder. Fuck the bullshit. I should be just as comfortable as you in my skin, and I'm not. Until that ends. This is what's up.

[NaturalHigh]

102. "My kids do not deserve what they will be getting from America."

Neither do mine. That's the point of what I've been saying.

[bravenak]

103. But your kids won't be getting stop and frisked.

They won't be considered criminals by police just because they look a certain way or like rap music.
They won't get the 'talk'.
They won't receive harsher punishment because they are colored.
They won't get ignored.
They won't have politicians speaking nastily about them because they belong to a certain race.
They won't get call thug, just a troubled teen.
They won't get called welfare queen even though they work their asses off.
They won't be asked why they speak so well, for their kind.
They won't live black in a nation that hates them for the crime of being descended from slaves.
Just stop trying to minimize the plight of african americans through derailment. It's not always about you or your kids. Ours are the ones suffering disproportionately. Allow us to focus on that without your derailment, please. Throwing yourself in to things in this way smacks of an innate sense of privilege. Your kids are not suffering from racism. At all. Why you put them in this, I do not know, unless it's to tell me yours are more important.

[NaturalHigh]

104. I bring them into this because you mentioned kids.

To say that you can talk about the needs of your kids but I'm not allowed to talk about mine is frankly hypocritical. You love your kids and want what's best for them. I would think that you could understand that I feel the same about mine. Nobody is telling you what you must focus on, but you don't seem to allow that same consideration for others. As for privilege, all I can say is that you know nothing of me or my family. Until you've walked in my shoes, you're not qualified to judge me.

I can see that there is nothing I can say that will do anything but offend and anger you, so I will bow out of this conversation now. I hope you have a pleasant evening.

[bravenak]

105. Not angry.

Just letting you know how it looks when the derailment happens. I do not presume to know yr family. I do think that if your sons were black you would understand my fear and point of view.
We are tired of being lesser thans. Unless you know how it is to be from this group, or have full empathy, nothing I can say will make you understand how it looks.
Have a nice evening as well.
I was never telling you WHAT to focus on. Just not to do it here. Just like I never come and take a crap on TPP threads and force racism and killer cops into it. I am asking for mutual respect instead of me respecting boundaries, while you ignore them.

[JustAnotherGen]

109. His kids aren't black - so you double down!

And right here on this thread we have an African American member bamboozled into believing these TPP anti Third Way types really have his best interests at heart.

That's such bullshit.

I really don't believe those people have one fuck to give about us -

Why should we care about them?

[bravenak]

114. I saw that!!

But I already knew about that one. You know the type... So eager to prove they ain't like us. Much more respectable and willing to fight his own to improve the lives of, well, we don't quite know, do we? I'm ready to get a TPP bumper sticker now.

[elias49]

15. I think maybe I get it...?

The OP comes across to me as a bit 60s. Woodstock is long over and, indeed, having dreams and tears in your eyes just might be at the expense of missing what's going on TODAY.
Wrenching pictures, I'll give you that, but none of what's wrong with this country in 2015 is likely to be improved by 'smiling on your brother'.

[sheshe2]

17. Where did I post smiling on your brother?

The OP comes across to me as a bit 60s. Woodstock is long over and, indeed, having dreams and tears in your eyes just might be at the expense of missing what's going on TODAY.
Wrenching pictures, I'll give you that, but none of what's wrong with this country in 2015 is likely to be improved by 'smiling on your brother'.

What? So racism is not happening today according to you? This is a Woodstock moment? Really? Black men are being killed in the street. A choke hold for selling a cigarette. Dead. Black men, unarmed are being targeted with excessive force and murdered in the street. Dead.

And you call this a fricking Woodstock moment. Dear Gawd.

The OP comes across to me as a bit 60s. Woodstock is long over and, indeed, having dreams and tears in your eyes just might be at the expense of missing what's going on TODAY.

Obviously you don't get it!

[ND-Dem]

27. At the risk of butting into something I don't understand, being new...

I think it's this part that may have come off a bit woodstocky:

It should be beautiful...It can be beautiful. We can do this. We can. I know we have it in our hearts and our souls. We can do it we just need to try a little harder. We need to talk and listen and really want this.


And my own opinion is that the trade deals do have something to do with poverty, unemployment, hopelessness and the use of police for social control over the poor and/or angry.

[SMC22307]

74. They're not seeing the big picture.

Why, is anybody's guess. I agree with this:

And my own opinion is that the trade deals do have something to do with poverty, unemployment, hopelessness and the use of police for social control over the poor and/or angry.

Traditional manufacturing has taken a massive hit over the decades (see NC/decimation of textile and furniture industries/poverty amongst blacks), blacks have lost the most wealth during the housing meltdown and "Great Recession," and they're lagging in the economic recovery. Our fearless leaders have a hard-on for the USPS, which provides many African-Americans with solid middle-class jobs. Local and state government budgets have been slashed. Cuts to Social Security will hurt blacks the most.

Why the OP and others in this thread refuse to acknowledge cause and effect is a bit perplexing. I guess it's easier to post manipulative, highly-charged pics and trash all cops. All WHITE cops, that is. And attack Manny, of course.

Welcome to DU.

[Bobbie Jo]

106. What an utterly tone deaf post. nt

[elias49]

28. Sure I do.

You don't. Sorry.

[1StrongBlackMan]

50. WOW ...

SheShe does not understand her own OP's meaning ... because you think it "woodstocky"?

Wow!

[elias49]

52. Try a little harder.

She doesn't understand ME and MY POST. You good now?

[1StrongBlackMan]

65. But you told HER you understand HER ...

and she told you that you don't.

[elias49]

66. I understand completely what she "said".

But scouring Google, collecting a bunch of compelling pictures, adding a little mood music and then ending it with "America the Beautiful" doesn't get you a C- in freshman composition. And then if someone dares to point out that there are other critical issues that need addressing in this country, he/she gets lambasted for not being sensitive enough.
Thin skins are everywhere here.
Sorry if I ruined the mood. I'm done with this misbegotten thread.

[bravenak]

68. Here, a gift. A song of reality.

We call ourselves the free,
but we cannot free ourselves.
Open secrets,
hidden in plain sight,
dusty tomes on our shelves.
Our society is ill,
sick,
in disarray.
America,
America,
who are you today?


Police state holds the mighty men,
safe in their keeps.
Looking down upon us;
lowly peasants and sheep….
Power to the people!
The words – so strong,
are but air from our lips.
Words are merely wind;
but wind powers ships.


Old men molded the world,
and shaped the past!
They wrote the history,
they won at last!
But what man has made,
was not made to stay…
The old days are dead,
Yet they haunt us this day.


Don’t tell me what you were,
or what you’ve done.
How much you’ve taken,
how much you’ve won.
Your money,
your might,
you own the day!
America,
America,
we are on our way.


Old wounds not healed,
have blistered
and burst!
Our souls cry out
in desolation
and thirst.
A lustful hope,
(a needful want,)
that on a summer day….
America,
America,
will change the way….


We, use and abuse.
Rig the game to lose.
Separate the browns from the reds,
the pinks from the blues -
the lights from the darks,
with the blacks put away.
Oh, America,
America,
the games you play.


Time for us all
to reunify the race
there is but one –
the human
same face.
Together we are one;
but separate,
just dust.
America,
America,
America or bust.

[sheshe2]

80. Kicking your poem, bravenak!

[bravenak]

85. Thank you.

[sheshe2]

79. Who's critical issues?

Yours? What is important to you may not be important to all. And it would be nice for a change to have someone actually respond to the Op itself. This one is about racism and equality in America.

Why is that so hard for you to discuss?

TPP. GG. LEGALIZED POT. TORTURE. SNOWDEN. PUTIN. DRONES is that away>>>>>>>>

PS~ Thanks for grading my paper.

[bravenak]

89. Legal weed!

They are so funny. Only care about us in order to get something for themselves. And I wouldn't put too much stock in his grading ability.
They come here and get mad when they can't change the subject.

[SMC22307]

18. Does that second to last pic say "Kill Cops"? (n/t)

[840high]

24. Yes it does. Good way

to work together and unite America.

[sheshe2]

25. Good way to unite America

Black Lives don't matter. Shoot them kill them unarmed in the street. Leave their bodies to rot in the heat for four hours. It's a sign. Back to the days of lynchings. Let there bodys rot as a sign as a warning. Cops are out of control. They are murdering black men.

[NaturalHigh]

90. I notice you still have nothing to say...

about the "Kill Cops" sign. Does that bother you or not?

[bravenak]

92. It's graffiti.

That person in the photo probably had absolutely nothing to do with it. As you can see, the sign he was holding was new and at the forefront.
Why should she focus on the graffiti? It was not the point of the shot.
I notice how some people focus on graffiti, clothing of black people, black on black crime, but never seem concerned that black people are over-policed and harassed in their own neighborhoods by law enforcement. Those same people never question stop and frisk even though it's racist and the policy was used to target black and brown men. They have no problem with that. But the graffiti is what bothers them.
Sad to see that if we say, 'stop killing our men!" They say, black on black crime. We say, "we are being followed and stopped just for our color!" They say, look at that graffiti!
Transparent relics.

[NaturalHigh]

94. The graffiti expresses an ugly sentiment.

The man in the photo looks sorrow-stricken, a very sad sight. It's possible to empathize with him and still condemn the graffiti "artist" who expressed his/her wish to see police officers die.

[bravenak]

96. Why focus on the grafitti?

They are not killing cops. Cops are killing them. What sentiment does it express that the police were wearing those bracelets supporting a man who killed one of their neighbors, wearing them while patrolling the same neighborhood that the boy was killed in by the man whose bracelet they wore? It says, "You're next!" Why no complaints about that? No wonder somebody spray painted that after they wore those bracelets.

[NaturalHigh]

100. "Why focus on the grafitti?"

Why ignore it? An ugly sentiment like that stands out.

"They are not killing cops."

Tell that to the families of the two officers who were assassinated in New York. I'm sure that will comfort them. What did those men do to deserve murder?

[bravenak]

101. Why do you ignore the young black men murdered by police?

[SMC22307]

72. No kidding. I may be in the minority...

but I'm not jumping on the DU "kill cops" bandwagon. Actually, I think the majority aren't on that wagon, since these highly-charged, manipulative OPs tend to be rejected.

[840high]

73. Agree.

[NaturalHigh]

97. I don't think you're in the minority.

A lot of us agree.

[bravenak]

99. Go agree with each other in yr own threads instead of whining that we are not TPPing.

[BainsBane]

29. I am astounded by the number of negative comments to this OP

Has the cable-news time limit on police shootings of African Americans expired? Why should liberals/Democrats object to the statement that black lives matter? How is it not enough to discuss that issue? Sure, the OP doesn't talk about the political elites whose quest for power is the sole focus of some. Instead, it talks about the lies of ordinary Americans of color who face violence or the threat of violence far, far too often. Their lives expose the myth that frames the political consciousness that centers around power and privilege in Washington.

[betsuni]

30. I'm astounded too.

Do not care for the mindless negativity -- why.

[gollygee]

41. +1

What the heck is up with the responses to the thread? And I'm not through the whole thing yet.

[JustAnotherGen]

51. I'm starting to see - that a lot of DUers

Are just out for themselves.

It's like working in a large company - everyone is just out for themselves. We see it, acknowledge the existence of that as a credo - and then move on.


I'm not surprised because as I responded to 1strong upthread - it's just the way of things.

[sheshe2]

81. I would guess we are being seen to much. Time limits and all.

The topic is being repeated over and over at least it has been on DU as of late. Some have had it would be my guess, they want the topic switched back again. I would say we are being told to sit down and shut up. Not happening Bains.

[BainsBane]

84. Nothing is stopping them from posting their own threads

or trashing those they don't want to read. Yet somehow that isn't enough.

[JustAnotherGen]

110. Thanks for that 'heads up' last night

You are very spot on with something.

And on this - I agree. I guess I don't understand why people don't literally type - SPINOFF: Thread Title They Want to Butt Into

And post their bullshit there?

[Katashi_itto]

33. Vote Hillary! The TPP architect! Only she can make us the impoverished nation we are meant to be!

That way, the 99%, white or black can be all poor together!

Serving our white oligarch overlords properly.

[Bobbie Jo]

40. Whoooosh!

[gollygee]

42. "We can't talk about racism until there are no more poor white people."

Yeah, we've head that before. People see discussion of racism as a distraction from the "real issues facing America."

[TheKentuckian]

64. What about poor and working class blacks, Hispanics, natives, and women? You know most of us too?

When the hell did economics in arguably the most capital oriented country on Earth become the interest only of some segment of white people when the weight of the shitpile falls disproportionately and heaviest on the people some espoused to be championing but not only have a deaf ear when the day to day impacts of trying to make it and trying to live and thrive rather than an existence on the rat wheel scuffle or worse falling completely off but actually attack and mock efforts at justice while hamfistedly working to tie said efforts to racism.

[gollygee]

67. When you hijack a thread about racism to talk about money issues

it isn't because you are concerned about people of color; it's because you're saying the discussion of racism is a distraction. We hear this a lot. No one who cares about poor and working class people of color would treat a thread about racism this way.

[TheKentuckian]

75. I didn't disrupt the thread, I came to as it is with the same bullshit refrain from the same quarter

that my interests don't matter supposedly in favor of my interests despite having nary a piece of legislation or policy to address said interests apparently to be handled by get this "a national conversation" while the ones with real policies and laws being passed and executed.

What is done is directly in or counter to my interests as well as that of my brother in law, my sisters, my family, and my friends a "dialog" is far more dubious in its impact and meaning. It is also outside the political process when action items are of little focus and racist institutions and practices are defended with a seeming desire to leave them as is yet somehow just suck that bigotry out somehow.

A strange belief, maybe even a hope that systems and structures built upon racism can be some exorcism can be performed that takes out the fundamental rot away while leaving what they have succeeded from or are preserved by in place.
This hope or belief then is manifested in the strange notion that the necessitous and desperate have practicable and practical rights, access to justice, and reasonable tools and environments to advance self determination and increase what can be returned to the community as payment forward.

Maybe the poster was saying between the lines that race relations and racism are a distraction and if so fuck them but the counter argument is at least equally garbage from my perspective, more so honestly because on one deeply impacting hand I'm seeing talk of talk and what appears to me to be a willful tap dance around any actual policy changes on the structural level to mitigate harm and on the other every moment of every day touching hand I hear at least the talk of doing and stopping actual things in the policy arena...ACTION ITEMS of fundamental importance most significantly affecting the very same people in the first hand.

Being in both hands myself, I'm befuddled how hand #1 feels it can actually accomplish anything of broad consequence without hand #2 being strong in this country to the point that some of the most vocal advocates of hand #1 seem to really be about demanding their class privilege be fully recognized to my reckoning and perhaps to sleep a little better knowing that injustices are dispensed somewhat more in line with demographics at least to the point that the remaining substantial difference can be written off as economic and ignored.

[bravenak]

62. Of course everything is about the TPP.

Everything. Unarmed black boy shot by cops in the park? Only the TPP mattters.

[spanone]

44. k&r...

[Veilex]

56. In an effort to bring the discussion back on topic...

Thank you Sheshe2 for posting this. The video is inspiring... and heartbreaking at the same time.

I'd love to see the "civil" back in "civil servant".

[JanMichael]

59. I prefer "This Land" by Woodie Guthrie

This Land Is Your Land
Words and Music by Woody Guthrie

This land is your land This land is my land
From California to the New York island;
From the red wood forest to the Gulf Stream waters
This land was made for you and Me.

As I was walking that ribbon of highway,
I saw above me that endless skyway:
I saw below me that golden valley:
This land was made for you and me.

I've roamed and rambled and I followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts;
And all around me a voice was sounding:
This land was made for you and me.

When the sun came shining, and I was strolling,
And the wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling,
As the fog was lifting a voice was chanting:
This land was made for you and me.

As I went walking I saw a sign there
And on the sign it said "No Trespassing."
But on the other side it didn't say nothing,
That side was made for you and me.

In the shadow of the steeple I saw my people,
By the relief office I seen my people;
As they stood there hungry, I stood there asking
Is this land made for you and me?

Nobody living can ever stop me,
As I go walking that freedom highway;
Nobody living can ever make me turn back
This land was made for you and me.

[Bobbie Jo]

63. K&R

[RKP5637]

76. K&R!!! n/t

[ChazII]

78. Beautiful video and a beautiful voice.

You're right we can make it happen. The third and fourth verses have always been my favorites.

Thank you, sheshe2.

[DesertDawg]

82. The unfortunate events are what you get when you mix

Alcohol, Steroids and training featuring videos and mugshots of predominately A.A. Males. The issue as i've seen it from experience is you've got these Cops all jacked up with a 13 year old boys Testosterone level out on the streets ready to attack. Toss in some horrible training where all they see is examples of Black Males committing the crimes(standard Police training footage in several places i've seen) and it's a bad recipe. They're hopped up and ready for a war and unfortunately the first A.A. Male with the misfortune of coming across them at the wrong time gets attacked.

Not only do these Cops need punished but we need them trained differently. Their indoctrination is similar to the Militaries where a repetitive bad guy is drilled into their skulls.

[DesertDawg]

83. Just to clarify

I am not trying to downplay anything and hopefully haven't upset anyone, I am just going off experiences I have seen in a major Metro police department and experienced as well as from talking to some Officers that agree the examples above are creating an epidemic of violent Cops out LOOKING for enemies they concocted in their minds and are ready to war against.

My heart goes out to every single victim of this crap as do my Prayers and it needs to stop. For anyone shrugging it off keep in mind: It started with these Methed/Roided out Cops shooting household pets across the U.S. the last 7 years. It has escalated to African Americans being targeted and it must stop.

[JustAnotherGen]

111. Serious truth here - and in your 'clarification' below

I think it's a component that cannot be ignored.

[Rowdyboy]

149. Somehow I was able to read your thread and understand exactly what your point was....

And it had nothing to do with TPP.

Maybe it has something to do with living all my life in the south, growing up poor, and working most of my career with young, unemployed minority youth who needed help finding work. I worked daily with those who desperately tried to work within the system to get ahead and instead had doors slammed in their faces regularly. It made their grievances very real and very legitimate. And now, apparently, many police departments have decided its "open season" on those same young people in a way no one, whatever the race, should ever have to experience.

You made your point well. If some choose to deliberately misconstrue your thread its their loss.