Nearly 20 years after Columbine, Americans still think Eric Harris was an unpopular outcast

[Recursion]

Last edited Mon Jan 12, 2015, 02:00 PM - Edit history (1)

(In fact, he was very popular, had a pretty girlfriend a year older than him, and was frequently asked to parties).

I bring this up, because it's absolutely crazy to think you can "understand" a mass murder (when is that ever understandable?) that happened across an ocean and in a vastly different culture, when America still won't face some basic facts about the mass murders that happen on our own shores.

EDIT: Gah! Even I, in making this point, screwed it up. Klebold was the really popular one, not Harris. Sorry.

[Archae]

1. Myths are always more popular than reality.

People still believe FDR knew about Pearl Harbor.

People still believe a flying saucer crashed at Roswell.

People still consider Joseph McCarthy a "hero" for all the "communists he found."

It's been 50 years since Oswald killed Kennedy, and all the evidence from science says he did it, but the Oliver Stone "JFK" crowd still fervently believes their mythology.

[Recursion]

2. Ain't it the truth? (nt)

[kairos12]

5. Also,...

Everybody on welfare is a cheat

If you work hard enough you too can join the one percent.

[Dreamer Tatum]

9. Boy are you about to get some blue ink.

Octafish...paging Octafish...

[treestar]

3. It is tough to know exactly who it is who will end up being a killer

We stick to generalizations. And when it comes to Muslims, there's a lack of appreciation that it's still one in a zillion.

All the younger brother's contacts with terrorism, trips to Syria, trip to Yemen, even being in jail for it, makes me wonder. There must be large numbers even of such people and no way to know which ones might blow.

[Recursion]

4. Call me a pragmatic surrender monkey, but...

that sounds like an incredibly powerful reason to engage rather than alienate that community.

I know... that's crazy talk.

[pamela]

6. "Very popular" is a bit of a stretch.

I've read a lot about Columbine and that's one of the problems: there are a lot of contradictory things to read out there. When it first happened, the narrative came out that they were bullied and thus targeted their bullies. Then, a book came out disputing that and the narrative became "oh, all that 'bully' stuff was a myth."

I use to read a message board that had some members (verified) who were at Columbine that day, a few were even in the library. They pretty much agree that none of the books or stories get it right. They describe Eric as both a bully himself and also as someone who was bullied. He wasn't one of the popular kids (those were the athletes or "white hats) but he also wasn't a complete nonentity.

The only reason I'm even saying all this is that the "oh, they weren't bullied" myth is as dangerous as the opposite myth that gives bullying as the reason. They WERE bullied and Columbine at the time had a horrible atmosphere of bullying that was often overlooked by the administration. I've heard countless stories of students being physically and even sexually assaulted right in front of teachers and administrators with no consequences to the perpetrators who were almost always athletes. Dylan and Eric were not the main targets but they got their share of abuse-mostly shoving, taunting, etc.

I tend to think Eric was a psychopath and Dylan was a depressed follower but I really don't know. There are no easy answers and a wealth of conflicting information. Weirdly, one of the best things I ever read about Columbine was a Brooks Brown "ask me anything" on Reddit of all places. It's worth a read.

[Hissyspit]

10. +1

[Surya Gayatri]

7. <<<This>>>!

[MattSh]

8. Never heard that version.

And considering that there were 100's of stories that claimed quite the opposite, I'd be leery about thinking differently even if you could supply links.

On Edit: 2015 - 1999 = 16 years. Not exactly nearly 20.

[pamela]

13. That's the Dave Cullen version

He wrote a book "Columbine" which many consider the definitive work on Columbine. It's well-reviewed on Amazon but the one and two star reviews are very telling and a lot of Columbine survivors have pointed out the many inaccuracies in the book. For instance, he paints Eric as a bit of a ladies' man when Eric's own journals make it clear that that is patently false.

[m-lekktor]

19. interesting! I read that book. nt

[dilby]

11. Who was his girlfriend?

I heard he dated an older girl but once she learned he was under 18 she ended the relationship which was right before his prom.

[Recursion]

12. Robyn Anderson; she bought about 1/4 of the guns they used

Though honestly I think the best take on Columbine was from Michael Moore.

[pamela]

14. The girl that went to the prom with Dylan?

That Robyn Anderson?

[dilby]

18. That was not his girlfriend.

She was friends with Klebold and even went to prom with him but they never had a romantic relationship.

[malaise]

15. There are no Muslim outcasts Recursion

even if they grow up in worse situations than we do - they are just terrorists.
What about that do you not understand?

[Recursion]

16. Thank you, malaise, I don't know what I was thinking!

That cleared it right up!!!

[malaise]

17. LOL

[HappyMe]

20. We're alway quick with the excuses

for things like Columbine here in the US. We're also sometimes too quick to yammer on about things that we know little about overseas.