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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsReport: NFL found 11 Patriots footballs were under-inflated by 2 pounds
I think some fines may be coming:
The NFL sent an investigative team to New England to continue checking into the allegations of deflated footballs from the AFC Championship Game.
The NFL found 11 of the Patriots' 12 footballs were under-inflated by 2 pounds of air (PSI), according to ESPN. An NFL spokesman told the Herald the league is still not commenting on the matter.
Here is the section of the rulebook that details the size and weight regulations of the footballs:
"The Ball must be a Wilson, hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell. The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12½ to 13½ pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11¼ inches; long circumference, 28 to 28½ inches; short circumference, 21 to 21¼ inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces.
...
Boston Herald Link
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)The Patriots have been accused of cheating before, haven't they?
P.S. Go Hawks!!
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)And penalized.
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)They beat the Eagles in the Superbowl years ago and I remember hearing a lot about cheating back then, though I never followed up to see if they were penalized.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Both teams are cheaters who can't win on their own.
liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)cheating seem to be rampant in the NFL?
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)Gross.
I will watch the Puppy Bowl instead.
AwakeAtLast
(14,126 posts)Angleae
(4,482 posts)And to top it off, Seattle didn't have a single suspension this year (for anything).
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/fines-suspensions/suspensions/
dsc
(52,162 posts)yes I know they would have won anyway but that is beside the point. As a teacher I don't say well the kid would have gotten an A without copying so just let him go. I give his but a zero.
gopiscrap
(23,761 posts)liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)football fan, and she says the very same thing. Of course, being from Cleveland (where she still lives, I'm in a western state with no NFL team), we hate Belicheat for what he did to the Browns and how gleeful he was about leaving with them for Baltimore. He made no secret of his disdain for Cleveland from the moment of his arrival, despite the fact that Clevelanders were the ones paying his fat salary and perks.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)the Ravens told the officials about the balls at the time.
The balls could have made a difference in that close game, so maybe the Patriots shouldn't have been playing the Colts at all.
dsc
(52,162 posts)New England is a bad road team especially in the playoffs. If this cheating has been systematic then it is possible they shouldn't be having these home playoff games that they had.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)why they're such a bad road team -- maybe it's harder to cheat outside of their home turf.
Jacoby365
(451 posts)11 balls under-inflated by 2 lbs? That is some serious cheating right there.
liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)He wasn't stopped before, so why should he care if he cheats now? And apparently, he won't suffer too many consequences here, either. Still being permitted to play in the Superbowl is not a deterring consequence.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)if I was the judge.
Pisces
(5,599 posts)The ABC's of Patriot's football " Always Be Cheating". Bellicheck needs to be banned from the game.
gopiscrap
(23,761 posts)Initech
(100,076 posts)They don't deserve it, and I definitely agree that Bilicheck should be dismissed without pay.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The Patriots have never cheated any more than most other teams. They certainly have fewer players banned for illegal substance use than a lot of others--like for instance, the Seahawks.
mythology
(9,527 posts)And while yes the Seahawks have had more players suspended under Pete Carroll than any other team, it's still scummy that the best defense you have is that other teams cheat.
If we have to hear all the time how great a coach Bill Belichick is for paying attention to all the details, you don't get to then say it doesn't matter when he cheats. After all, he was a below average coach in Cleveland.
City Lights
(25,171 posts)former9thward
(32,009 posts)Talk about cheating.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)I'm sure you are on the case! Keep us abreast of your findings!
former9thward
(32,009 posts)The Seattle Seahawks lead the NFL in suspensions for performance-enhancing drugs since Pete Carroll became coach in 2010, research by ESPN Stats & Information shows.
Defensive end Bruce Irvin's four-game suspension, announced Friday, was the fifth during that span, according to research ESPN's Steve Martinez conducted using STATS PASS.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/100145/seahawks-lead-in-ped-bans-under-carroll
Pete Carroll, USC and Scandal
http://www.bruinsnation.com/2006/6/26/113925/426
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)That Pete Carroll supplies performance enhancing drugs to his players, or go home.
The Seahawks are not at issue, and are under no investigations for cheating.
The Patriots on the other hand are.
former9thward
(32,009 posts)Trouble follows Carroll everywhere. I wonder if you would be so understanding if it was a political opponent?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Belichick is, and he has been fined/lost draft picks in the past for doing it.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)Because that's what Browner (currently wearing the Cheatriots colors) was suspended for. So, if one removes him from the list, they tie with 2 other teams for PED suspensions... Of course, none of that really matters at this point anyway, since Bruce Irvin is the only current Seahawk who had been suspended in that whole mess, and not a single player from the 'Hawks have been disciplined at all this year for substance policy issues.
former9thward
(32,009 posts)They make the rules.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)(in a laughable attempt to try to deflect from the most classless organization in football having been caught - yet again - cheating), I'm sure you'll be calling for the Patsies to declare Browner ineligible for next Sunday's game, amirite?
former9thward
(32,009 posts)because there is no innocence in the NFL.
I have no dog in the fight because I am a Cards fan but no one has been caught at anything at this point. Balls were found to be under-inflated. How they got that way is unknown at this point. The balls are given to the officials before the game who are supposed to determine they are proper. They are then given to the respective ball boys of the teams. I find it hard to believe ball boys would deflate balls when they are under view of dozens of cameras under NFL control before and during the game.
frylock
(34,825 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)If Pete Carroll were found dealing, the NFL would be the least of his worries. That would bring federal charges.
Nice try, though. Belicheat is scummy cheat
Frank Cannon
(7,570 posts)I'm sure the Patriots also got where they are today by eating their Wheaties every morning, taking multivitamins, and getting lots of refreshing sleep.
former9thward
(32,009 posts)That is why the name calling by the Seattle fans is so hypocritical -- especially given their coach.
TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)handed to you on a platter
DiverDave
(4,886 posts)NE Cheated. DQ them
earthside
(6,960 posts)Are you kidding?
This hasn't been a stellar season for the NFL on the public relations front ...
Do you think they would let a major cheating scandal sully their reputation further?
So, even if the Patriots did cheat, it will be covered up or explained away and by Superbowl time, no one will care.
But the NFL better look out, it seems to me. The game has gotten very heavy on penalties, such that their impact is taking over the game; it often seems that good play is relegated to secondary consideration to 'rule infractions'.
I like the entertainment of professional football, but there is something trending wrong in the game.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Other sanctions are possible.
They will still go to the Superbowl regardless and will still be heavily favored to win.
matt819
(10,749 posts)I've read about how the balls are controlled, and, call me naive, but it seems pretty solid.
That said, one way to avoid this in the future is to use the cake-cutting approach that parents use for their kids. One kid gets to cut the cake "in half," and the other kid gets to choose the "larger" half.
Saucepan of Kerbango
(48 posts)P = Pressure, T= Temperature (in Degrees Kelvin or Celsius) and k = Boltzmanns Constant
or
T2 = Patriots Playing Time Temperature of 39 Degrees Fahrenheit = 3.9 Celsius (276.9 Kelvin)
T1 = 75 Degrees Fahrenheit room temperature when balls were checked = 22.2 Celcius (295.2 Kelvin)
P1 = 12.5 PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch)
276.9/295.2 * 12.5 = 11.7 PSI (Playing Time Pressure)
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Saucepan of Kerbango
(48 posts)Whatever it takes....
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Not 39
Because it was so warm at game time, the league has already stated that temperature is a non factor.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)pnwmom
(108,978 posts)and all the Colts balls were tested and met specs.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)how the y were stored can also make a difference. My trucks tires sensors have indicated variations of 1-3 lbs for the last few weeks when we have been having the latest cold snap.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)When the temps dropped very low a couple of weeks ago, my tire pressure warning sensor started going off. The pressure dropped enough to set it off.
When you have balls that are only 12.5 to 13.5 psi, it would be easy for them to go below the standard just by going outside and sitting for a while.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)I've done nothing and the pressure changed as the temp up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_inflation_pressure
http://www.goodyear.com/cfmx/web/corporate/media/news/story.cfm?a_id=371
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I miss Vermont and I even miss the snow, but I don't miss those sub zero nights.
frylock
(34,825 posts)weird.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Definitely weird.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)and yet they all tested in normal limits.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Access to all the footballs is strictly controlled and the officials are required to check all balls for correct pressure before the game. It would be very difficult to alter the pressure of balls during a game without that being seen.
It is possible balls were given to the officials before the game that were underinflated. That isn't cheating. The officials should have caught that and pressurized the balls to the correct range. If they didn't do so, it wasn't cheating, it was the officials failing at their job.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Got it.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The responsibility for the balls being the correct pressure rests with the officials. That is one of their jobs. Teams give the balls to the officials know that they will be checked. There was no intent to cheat because it shouldn't have been possible to get underinflated balls into the game.
There are lots of possible, innocent explanations for the balls given to the officials were slightly under pressure. There is no explanation of how, if the officials checked them, that the pressure later was under the allowed range.
We need to find out if the officials even checked the balls in the first place.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Because if the Patriots purposely deflated balls below the minimum required pressure, they cheated - whether or not the refs caught it.
PS - The final check by the refs is done 2 hours before game time, and then the teams get the balls back. Still plenty of time to tamper.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)You have no way to know whether they "purposely" did anything. They could have been inflated in a warm room to within the proper range, but on the low end. Then when outside in the cold air, the pressure would have below the proper range.
PS - The ballboys ON THE FIELD in view of thousands get the balls in bags. Any tampering by them would be visible and caught. The balls are never in a place that would be hidden from view.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)And I would guess it's a lot easier to mess with the balls than you seem to think.
frylock
(34,825 posts)evidently, the balls used by the Colts were not underinflated.
Yavin4
(35,440 posts)not the officials.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)But they are officially inspected by the officials before the game to assure they are at proper PSI. Apparently all the balls were fine pre-game, but only the Patriots balls were deflated at half time.
Looks mighty suspicious...
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)did check the pressures before the game, since they'd already had a tip-off from the Ravens that there was a question about under-inflated balls.
hopeforchange2008
(610 posts)Total novice question I realize, but I really don't know.
Jamaal510
(10,893 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)IDemo
(16,926 posts)needs to come up with a deflated SuperBowl trophy image in the event the Patriots win (they won't)
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Unbelievable.
The Pats likely could have won using balls over-inflated to 25lbs.
I just think that a very obvious and cheap attempt at cheating shouldn't be given a complete pass. That's all.
Saucepan of Kerbango
(48 posts)you need to see what Rogers and Eli Manning do to their balls. Not to mention what Brad Johnson did before the Super Bowl. He paid $7500 dollars for a guy to doctor the footballs before his Super Bowl.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/brad-johnson-paid-a-bribe-to-tamper-with-footballs-at-the-super-bowl/
frylock
(34,825 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Two wrongs don't make a right.
No, they don't need to run around trying to catch everyone else. Everyone else is not at issue.
"Everyone else is probably doing it too" is not a very good defense. Also, it is irrelevant to say they would have won anyway, it's a matter of integrity.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)often changes the entire course of a game.
But you knew that if you know anything about football.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)The balls were tested originally inside.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)pipi_k
(21,020 posts)testing the Colts' balls as well?
Not necessary since they lost, but it would probably squash the whole shitstorm of idiocy if it was found that their footballs were not properly inflated too.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)despite being subject to the same "weather" the Pats' balls was exposed to.
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)pnwmom
(108,978 posts)affected by the weather, just the Patriots'.
50 degrees outside isn't exactly frigid, either.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)intercepted a ball notices it feels funny. How many interceptions on NE were there during that game? One.
How many times did the footballs get handled by an official after each NE play? A receiver or runner either hands it back to an official or leaves it on the field for an official to pick up. That happened a few dozen times, and yet no official noticed that the balls felt a little strange?
Really?
Also, I find it extremely hard to believe that a Belichick/Brady-led team would think it's necessary to purposely try and tilt things in their favor in their own stadium. Against the Colts, no less.
hack89
(39,171 posts)so either they are lying about the low pressure or the Patriots did in fact cheat. Seems pretty clear cut to me.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)that one guy on the Colts team who caught one Patriots ball notices it feels strange, but a whole shitload of officials in the game who are handling the ball(s) multiple times can't tell.
Some of those officials handle the footballs even more than some of the players do.
Yet they couldn't tell on their own?
hack89
(39,171 posts)and asking them on air if they can tell which one is the proper pressure and which one is under inflated. From what I can see it is not as easy as one would think. I am sure a pro quarterback who has spent decades handling and throwing footballs could tell the difference but perhaps it is a lot harder for a non-football player, even a referee to do so.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)When do you think would have been a better opportunity?
Yavin4
(35,440 posts)as well?
dilby
(2,273 posts)But because they were cheating I think they should be severely punished, loss of draft picks, fines and everything else. It's too late to suspend them from the Superbowl and if they do win their win should definitely have a question mark next to it for history to see.
liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)the fact that they likely didn't need to do that in order to win; they would have been good enough otherwise. So why did they feel the need to cheat yet AGAIN, despite being smacked with a half a million dollars fine and other sanctions the last time? It kind of reminds me of Nixon in '72. He didn't need Watergate in order to win; hell, Jesus Christ himself could have run against Nixon in '72 and Nixon still would have won. Paranoia, greed and arrogance are a bad combination all the way around.
dilby
(2,273 posts)If they would have been down or a close game the under inflated balls would be a bigger deal. But they were ahead from the beginning but even that lead was generated with under inflated balls. I was impressed when I saw how well the Patriots were throwing and catching in that torrential rain storm but now we know why that was.
liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)have this "win" forfeited and not be permitted to be in the Super Bowl, and BeliCHEAT should be fired immediately. But we both know that that is not going to happen.
adigal
(7,581 posts)dilby
(2,273 posts)It can't be rescheduled due to everything already booked and in place. It's also too short notice to just give the win to the Colts afterall the patriots probably cheated against the Ravens too so the whole game was completely moot.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)And the Ravens were the ones who first got suspicious about under-inflated balls, and reported them to the league, according to reports.
liberalhistorian
(20,818 posts)nicknamed "Belicheat" in some areas. Belicheat cheating again, no surprise here. It cost him and his team half a million bucks in fines last time, when it should have cost him his job and a permanent blacklist from coaching anywhere in the NFL. Somehow, I don't think they're going to care about any potential fines from this, either, since it didn't stop them last time. I hope Seattle kicks their cheating, arrogant asses good.
benz380
(534 posts)One_Life_To_Give
(6,036 posts)Each game would start with 30 brand new balls in boxes delivered to the ref's. Instead of only the Kicking balls being new and delivered to the ref's.
spanone
(135,838 posts)we can do it
(12,185 posts)Because if they were, what's the big deal?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)11 out of 12 of the balls for the Patriots were under inflated. The same was not true of the balls provided to the Colts.
we can do it
(12,185 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Cool, wet weather in Gillette stadium meant that the Colts were passing and catching hard balls that were difficult to hang onto in wet conditions while the Patriots were throwing and catching balls with a little give, making them easier to hang onto in the wet conditions.
onenote
(42,703 posts)Last edited Wed Jan 21, 2015, 08:16 PM - Edit history (1)
I believe that Brady during the first half was 11/21 passing for 80 yards with an interception.
In the second half he was 12/14 with no interceptions and 139 yards.
From what has been reported, the underinflation was discovered at halftime and the balls were re-inflated.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Ergo, they must at least be fined
onenote
(42,703 posts)Just pointing out that the use of deflated balls doesn't appear to have given the Patriots an actual advantage. That doesn't make it okay if, in fact, it was intentionally done by or on behalf of someone in the Patriots organization.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)all a matter of preference for each QB.
Aaron Rodgers has said he prefers his footballs a bit over inflated.
Also, Bill Belichick, in a news conference earlier this AM, said that he makes the team practice with the most miserable feeling footballs he can. Wet, freezing cold, sticky, whatever. He said if the players complain he makes them worse. I absolutely believe him.
If he makes them practice under the most miserable conditions, then there's no need to try and get an advantage by making the balls easier to grip during the game. They would already have experience playing with footballs that the Devil himself would be afraid of.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)It is also known that 11 out of 12 Patriot balls were at 10.5 PSI and that all 12 of the Colts balls registered at 13 PSI.
There was a definite cheat. A $275K fine is in order under NFL rules.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Easiest way to stop fumbling is to make the footballs softer.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)After halftime, when the balls were reinflated to proper specs (and supposedly harder to handle), the Pats destroyed the Colts.
Weird, right?
TeeYiYi
(8,028 posts)...but I think it's kinda' shitty since the Patriots already had home field advantage.
The cold, rainy weather worked against the Colts. Deflated balls are easier to hold onto, throw and catch. Patriots didn't need to cheat to win but they did.
If both teams had had the advantage of playing with deflated footballs on a cold, rainy day, I wouldn't care... but they didn't. Colts were throwing rocks in cold weather. Patriots were throwing nice cushy rockets. Nothing fair about that scenario.
Patriots are a good team. No, they're a GREAT team...but they still cheat like they've got the mob in their back pocket. It detracts from their legacy.
Who would possibly want the 'cheaters' to win the Super Bowl now?... Hmmm
let me think... Maybe this was a calculated setup, made by bad guys in Vegas to try to control the Super Bowl outcome. I imagine Deflategate has already affected the odds
I don't doubt that the Patriots cheated... I'm just surprised that they got caught. Most anyone WOULD cheat if they knew how and thought they could get away with it. That's just the nature of business in the real world of corporate America. It's a dog eat dog world
Just don't get caught.
Patriots have been finding ways to give themselves an advantage since the jump. Colts should've had their own cheat plan if they wanted to have any hope of winning the championship game against the number one, 'whatever it takes' Patriots.
I'm not surprised that the Patriots deflated their footballs on a cold and rainy day. I'm more surprised that the Colts didn't follow suit...
My 2 cents.
TYY
(Cross posted from Will Pitt's Deflategate post in the Sports Group.)
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)Go Vols
(5,902 posts)http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/20/nfl-says-patriots-used-under-inflated-footballs/7UlPZI3eotRTBadM89saeO/story.html
onenote
(42,703 posts)If it's shown that anyone in or connected to the Patriots organization tampered with the balls, there should be fines meted out. But the penalty should be commensurate with the harm caused by the violation, which is why those claiming that the Pats should be booted from the Super Bowl are wrong.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)the Oakland Raiders being accused of "cheating", we'd never hear much about it.
Even if they were caught red-handed, nobody cares if a loser cheats.
That's pretty much being borne out by the seeming non-reaction to revelations that other QBs/teams also messed around with the air in their footballs.
But let even a sniff of a rumor come out about a winning team, with no proof as to how it happened, and the sharks circle around the drop of blood in the water.
In any case, it'll be interesting to see what happens after the Superbowl is over.
If NE wins, some will say they cheated. If NE loses, some will say they deserved it for "cheating".
Pisces
(5,599 posts)kids, the rest of the NFL. People get fired from jobs, kicked out of school, kicked out of their marriages for cheating.
There is a bigger message than using some deflated balls. If the NFL had any balls at all they would give Superbowl to
the Colts, end of story.
onenote
(42,703 posts)The league's rules provide for a $25K fine, which is a pretty good indication that they don't regard it as a serious violation (after all, each winning player in the Super Bowl stands to earn over $90K for the win alone, and the value to the team and to the players in future contracts and endorsements is huge).
I suppose going forward the league might change its rule, but its more like to change it to put the officials in charge of the balls.
Would barring a team that tampers with the game balls from the Super Bowl be a deterrent? Sure, but I can think of an endless list of harsh penalties that could be applied to those who violate the law in every day life that would be a deterrent but that no one would support.
Paladin
(28,262 posts)Nixon didn't need those clumsy burglars to bust into the Watergate offices---there was never any doubt that Nixon was going to mop up the floor with McGovern in 1972. Similarly, the Pats would have prevailed in that game last Sunday without any hanky-panky being performed on the footballs. Thanks for the oh-so-apt analogy, Chris.