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MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 10:24 AM Jan 2015

Report: NFL found 11 Patriots footballs were under-inflated by 2 pounds

I think some fines may be coming:

Report: NFL found 11 Patriots footballs were under-inflated by 2 pounds

The NFL sent an investigative team to New England to continue checking into the allegations of deflated footballs from the AFC Championship Game.

The NFL found 11 of the Patriots' 12 footballs were under-inflated by 2 pounds of air (PSI), according to ESPN. An NFL spokesman told the Herald the league is still not commenting on the matter.

Here is the section of the rulebook that details the size and weight regulations of the footballs:

"The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell. The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12½ to 13½ pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11¼ inches; long circumference, 28 to 28½ inches; short circumference, 21 to 21¼ inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces.

...


Boston Herald Link
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Report: NFL found 11 Patriots footballs were under-inflated by 2 pounds (Original Post) MohRokTah Jan 2015 OP
Patriots Tree-Hugger Jan 2015 #1
They were caught red-handed before MannyGoldstein Jan 2015 #4
Eagles Superbowl Tree-Hugger Jan 2015 #59
And under their current coach, Seattle leads the league in player suspensions for performance drugs mythology Jan 2015 #11
Good point. Is it just me, or does liberalhistorian Jan 2015 #45
I didn't know that. Tree-Hugger Jan 2015 #58
Well now I know I'm not watching AwakeAtLast Jan 2015 #92
Not any more. Washington seems to hold that crown. Angleae Jan 2015 #94
the win should be taken away from them dsc Jan 2015 #2
Totally agree gopiscrap Jan 2015 #6
My mother's a retired teacher and a huge liberalhistorian Jan 2015 #47
They beat the Ravens by only a few points -- and reports say pnwmom Jan 2015 #109
in point of fact dsc Jan 2015 #118
And with their history of cheating you have to wonder pnwmom Jan 2015 #119
Rematch! Jacoby365 Jan 2015 #3
That's BeliCHEAT for ya. liberalhistorian Jan 2015 #46
Forfeit tabasco Jan 2015 #85
Fines??? They need to lose their place in the Superbowl. They are known cheaters. Pisces Jan 2015 #5
Absolutely gopiscrap Jan 2015 #7
I agree they got caught once. Initech Jan 2015 #15
Baloney. And it's Belichick. BillZBubb Jan 2015 #20
At the very least, they get caught cheating more than other teams mythology Jan 2015 #50
Absolutely. City Lights Jan 2015 #21
Should Pete Carroll be banned for providing drugs to players? former9thward Jan 2015 #43
Yes, if proven true AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #62
Yeah, he is real innocent. former9thward Jan 2015 #66
Post the proof AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #67
Sorry, I am not going anywhere. former9thward Jan 2015 #69
Carroll is not accused of cheating AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #72
Since when is pot a PED? opiate69 Jan 2015 #68
Ask that question of the NFL, not me. former9thward Jan 2015 #70
Well, since we're re-litigating the past now... opiate69 Jan 2015 #73
I don't call for anyone to be suspended former9thward Jan 2015 #77
errrrrrrr.... uhhhhhhhhhh frylock Jan 2015 #78
The players who took the drugs were punished LittleBlue Jan 2015 #89
Ha ha ha! Like there are ANY NFL teams who don't use drugs. Frank Cannon Jan 2015 #97
No innocence in the NFL. former9thward Jan 2015 #98
They certainly deflated the Colts balls. TheCowsCameHome Jan 2015 #8
lol DrDan Jan 2015 #48
Colts go to super bowl DiverDave Jan 2015 #9
Nothing will happen -- even if they did cheat. earthside Jan 2015 #10
The official fine for deflating a ball is $25K MohRokTah Jan 2015 #52
Sounds like a made-up scandal to me matt819 Jan 2015 #12
Pressure/Temp Saucepan of Kerbango Jan 2015 #18
2 pounds under inflated would be 10.5 PSI eom MohRokTah Jan 2015 #38
220...221 Saucepan of Kerbango Jan 2015 #42
Playing time temperature was 51 degrees AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #63
And if it WERE a factor, it would have affected Colts balls, too. n/t pnwmom Jan 2015 #111
Not solid at all. Each set of balls are taken care of by their own team, pnwmom Jan 2015 #110
Sitting out in the cold & depending on when they were inflated... Historic NY Jan 2015 #13
I've read that you lost 1 PSI for every 10 degrees F loss. alarimer Jan 2015 #32
Exactly... Historic NY Jan 2015 #35
30 something below zero temps flattened all four of my truck tires. beam me up scottie Jan 2015 #61
weird that the balls on the Colt's side of the field were unaffected by the temperature.. frylock Jan 2015 #54
Yeah, I read they were all at 13 lbs at halftime AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #65
The Colts balls also sat out in the 50 degree "cold" weather, pnwmom Jan 2015 #116
I strongly doubt this was cheating. We need to wait for all the facts to come out. BillZBubb Jan 2015 #14
Ah, so it's only cheating if someone finds out you cheated. trotsky Jan 2015 #16
That's not what I said and you know it. BillZBubb Jan 2015 #19
Yeah it is. trotsky Jan 2015 #23
Wrong again. BillZBubb Jan 2015 #25
That's why I said "IF." trotsky Jan 2015 #27
if that were the case, then one would think that ALL the balls would've been effected.. frylock Jan 2015 #55
The footballs are controlled by the home team Yavin4 Jan 2015 #33
They are supplied by the home team AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #75
No one is controlling the balls' access except the teams. And I'm sure the officials pnwmom Jan 2015 #112
Why do the teams supply the balls? Why doesn't the league? hopeforchange2008 Jan 2015 #17
+1 Jamaal510 Jan 2015 #22
that will likely change for next season frylock Jan 2015 #56
Someone better than me at Photoshopping IDemo Jan 2015 #24
So, you think deflated balls are the reason the Colts got trounced? BillZBubb Jan 2015 #26
No IDemo Jan 2015 #29
then Saucepan of Kerbango Jan 2015 #41
oh, well that changes everything then frylock Jan 2015 #57
Brad Johnson cheated AgingAmerican Jan 2015 #79
One bad pass, one interception, one failure to convert tabasco Jan 2015 #86
I think they need to check into what effect the cold has Marrah_G Jan 2015 #28
Big difference its science. Historic NY Jan 2015 #30
And how about pipi_k Jan 2015 #34
They did. The Colts balls all tested within regulation limits, pnwmom Jan 2015 #114
I think they said the temperature at the start of the game was 51°F. bullwinkle428 Jan 2015 #39
All the balls were tested inside -- but magically, the Colts balls weren't pnwmom Jan 2015 #113
So a player who pipi_k Jan 2015 #31
The refs retested all the balls at halftime hack89 Jan 2015 #64
What I'm saying is pipi_k Jan 2015 #99
All the local TV stations are giving people footballs with different pressures hack89 Jan 2015 #103
They were suspicious enough to test all the balls at half-time. pnwmom Jan 2015 #115
Cheating is cheating. What about the Ravens game? Did they under-inflate the balls in that game Yavin4 Jan 2015 #36
It's a shame really because I don't think the Pats needed the deflated balls to win. dilby Jan 2015 #37
That's what's so puzzling to me, liberalhistorian Jan 2015 #44
Well to be honest, they made the decision to cheat before the game started. dilby Jan 2015 #49
Indeed. They should liberalhistorian Jan 2015 #51
Why is it too late to suspend them from the Super Bowl??? I don't get that. nt adigal Jan 2015 #104
Because the Superbowl is a little more than a week away. dilby Jan 2015 #106
Maybe they needed them to beat the Ravens, which they only did by a few points. pnwmom Jan 2015 #117
Well, there's a reason why he's liberalhistorian Jan 2015 #40
Maybe cold shrinkage? Ask George Costanza. n/t benz380 Jan 2015 #53
If the NFL really cared One_Life_To_Give Jan 2015 #60
if nothing else, they should take responsibility for balls away from the teams spanone Jan 2015 #71
Was everyone using the same balls? we can do it Jan 2015 #74
The home team provides the visiting team with 12 balls and themselves with 12 balls. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #76
So wouldn't they be hurting themselves, then? we can do it Jan 2015 #82
No, under inflated balls are easier to throw and catch, especially in wet weather. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #83
except it didn't work out that way. onenote Jan 2015 #84
But the cheat was still in place MohRokTah Jan 2015 #87
No disagreement. onenote Jan 2015 #88
It's really pipi_k Jan 2015 #100
Bill Belicheat is a known liar. MohRokTah Jan 2015 #101
The Patriots had fumbling problems LittleBlue Jan 2015 #91
And yet... pipi_k Jan 2015 #102
I realize that all is fair in love and war... TeeYiYi Jan 2015 #80
I blame Die Fledermaus BeyondGeography Jan 2015 #81
NE played better with properly inflated balls Go Vols Jan 2015 #90
Brady: 11/21, 80 yards first half. 12/14 139 yards second half onenote Jan 2015 #96
If this were pipi_k Jan 2015 #105
The only deterrent would be to take away Superbowl. What kind of message are we sending to Pisces Jan 2015 #93
except the league already has specified the penalty onenote Jan 2015 #95
Chris Hayes: Bill Belichick is the Richard Nixon of football coaches. Paladin Jan 2015 #107
lalz... Blue_Tires Jan 2015 #108

Tree-Hugger

(3,370 posts)
59. Eagles Superbowl
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:43 PM
Jan 2015

They beat the Eagles in the Superbowl years ago and I remember hearing a lot about cheating back then, though I never followed up to see if they were penalized.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
11. And under their current coach, Seattle leads the league in player suspensions for performance drugs
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 11:03 AM
Jan 2015

Both teams are cheaters who can't win on their own.

dsc

(52,162 posts)
2. the win should be taken away from them
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 10:39 AM
Jan 2015

yes I know they would have won anyway but that is beside the point. As a teacher I don't say well the kid would have gotten an A without copying so just let him go. I give his but a zero.

liberalhistorian

(20,818 posts)
47. My mother's a retired teacher and a huge
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 12:35 PM
Jan 2015

football fan, and she says the very same thing. Of course, being from Cleveland (where she still lives, I'm in a western state with no NFL team), we hate Belicheat for what he did to the Browns and how gleeful he was about leaving with them for Baltimore. He made no secret of his disdain for Cleveland from the moment of his arrival, despite the fact that Clevelanders were the ones paying his fat salary and perks.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
109. They beat the Ravens by only a few points -- and reports say
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 03:10 PM
Jan 2015

the Ravens told the officials about the balls at the time.

The balls could have made a difference in that close game, so maybe the Patriots shouldn't have been playing the Colts at all.

dsc

(52,162 posts)
118. in point of fact
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 04:16 PM
Jan 2015

New England is a bad road team especially in the playoffs. If this cheating has been systematic then it is possible they shouldn't be having these home playoff games that they had.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
119. And with their history of cheating you have to wonder
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 05:05 PM
Jan 2015

why they're such a bad road team -- maybe it's harder to cheat outside of their home turf.

liberalhistorian

(20,818 posts)
46. That's BeliCHEAT for ya.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 12:32 PM
Jan 2015

He wasn't stopped before, so why should he care if he cheats now? And apparently, he won't suffer too many consequences here, either. Still being permitted to play in the Superbowl is not a deterring consequence.

Pisces

(5,599 posts)
5. Fines??? They need to lose their place in the Superbowl. They are known cheaters.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 10:49 AM
Jan 2015

The ABC's of Patriot's football " Always Be Cheating". Bellicheck needs to be banned from the game.

Initech

(100,076 posts)
15. I agree they got caught once.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 11:21 AM
Jan 2015

They don't deserve it, and I definitely agree that Bilicheck should be dismissed without pay.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
20. Baloney. And it's Belichick.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 11:34 AM
Jan 2015

The Patriots have never cheated any more than most other teams. They certainly have fewer players banned for illegal substance use than a lot of others--like for instance, the Seahawks.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
50. At the very least, they get caught cheating more than other teams
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 12:37 PM
Jan 2015

And while yes the Seahawks have had more players suspended under Pete Carroll than any other team, it's still scummy that the best defense you have is that other teams cheat.

If we have to hear all the time how great a coach Bill Belichick is for paying attention to all the details, you don't get to then say it doesn't matter when he cheats. After all, he was a below average coach in Cleveland.

former9thward

(32,009 posts)
66. Yeah, he is real innocent.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:20 PM
Jan 2015
Seahawks' lead in PED bans under Carroll

The Seattle Seahawks lead the NFL in suspensions for performance-enhancing drugs since Pete Carroll became coach in 2010, research by ESPN Stats & Information shows.

Defensive end Bruce Irvin's four-game suspension, announced Friday, was the fifth during that span, according to research ESPN's Steve Martinez conducted using STATS PASS.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/100145/seahawks-lead-in-ped-bans-under-carroll

Pete Carroll, USC and Scandal

http://www.bruinsnation.com/2006/6/26/113925/426
 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
67. Post the proof
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:25 PM
Jan 2015

That Pete Carroll supplies performance enhancing drugs to his players, or go home.

The Seahawks are not at issue, and are under no investigations for cheating.

The Patriots on the other hand are.

former9thward

(32,009 posts)
69. Sorry, I am not going anywhere.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:32 PM
Jan 2015

Trouble follows Carroll everywhere. I wonder if you would be so understanding if it was a political opponent?

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
72. Carroll is not accused of cheating
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:35 PM
Jan 2015


Belichick is, and he has been fined/lost draft picks in the past for doing it.

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
68. Since when is pot a PED?
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:31 PM
Jan 2015

Because that's what Browner (currently wearing the Cheatriots colors) was suspended for. So, if one removes him from the list, they tie with 2 other teams for PED suspensions... Of course, none of that really matters at this point anyway, since Bruce Irvin is the only current Seahawk who had been suspended in that whole mess, and not a single player from the 'Hawks have been disciplined at all this year for substance policy issues.

 

opiate69

(10,129 posts)
73. Well, since we're re-litigating the past now...
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:38 PM
Jan 2015

(in a laughable attempt to try to deflect from the most classless organization in football having been caught - yet again - cheating), I'm sure you'll be calling for the Patsies to declare Browner ineligible for next Sunday's game, amirite?

former9thward

(32,009 posts)
77. I don't call for anyone to be suspended
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:44 PM
Jan 2015

because there is no innocence in the NFL.

I have no dog in the fight because I am a Cards fan but no one has been caught at anything at this point. Balls were found to be under-inflated. How they got that way is unknown at this point. The balls are given to the officials before the game who are supposed to determine they are proper. They are then given to the respective ball boys of the teams. I find it hard to believe ball boys would deflate balls when they are under view of dozens of cameras under NFL control before and during the game.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
89. The players who took the drugs were punished
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 08:17 PM
Jan 2015

If Pete Carroll were found dealing, the NFL would be the least of his worries. That would bring federal charges.

Nice try, though. Belicheat is scummy cheat

Frank Cannon

(7,570 posts)
97. Ha ha ha! Like there are ANY NFL teams who don't use drugs.
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 09:28 AM
Jan 2015

I'm sure the Patriots also got where they are today by eating their Wheaties every morning, taking multivitamins, and getting lots of refreshing sleep.

former9thward

(32,009 posts)
98. No innocence in the NFL.
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 11:52 AM
Jan 2015

That is why the name calling by the Seattle fans is so hypocritical -- especially given their coach.

earthside

(6,960 posts)
10. Nothing will happen -- even if they did cheat.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 10:57 AM
Jan 2015

Are you kidding?

This hasn't been a stellar season for the NFL on the public relations front ...

Do you think they would let a major cheating scandal sully their reputation further?

So, even if the Patriots did cheat, it will be covered up or explained away and by Superbowl time, no one will care.

But the NFL better look out, it seems to me. The game has gotten very heavy on penalties, such that their impact is taking over the game; it often seems that good play is relegated to secondary consideration to 'rule infractions'.

I like the entertainment of professional football, but there is something trending wrong in the game.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
52. The official fine for deflating a ball is $25K
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 01:26 PM
Jan 2015

Other sanctions are possible.

They will still go to the Superbowl regardless and will still be heavily favored to win.

matt819

(10,749 posts)
12. Sounds like a made-up scandal to me
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 11:04 AM
Jan 2015

I've read about how the balls are controlled, and, call me naive, but it seems pretty solid.

That said, one way to avoid this in the future is to use the cake-cutting approach that parents use for their kids. One kid gets to cut the cake "in half," and the other kid gets to choose the "larger" half.

 
18. Pressure/Temp
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 11:29 AM
Jan 2015

P = Pressure, T= Temperature (in Degrees Kelvin or Celsius) and k = Boltzmann’s Constant



or





T2 = Patriots Playing Time Temperature of 39 Degrees Fahrenheit = 3.9 Celsius (276.9 Kelvin)

T1 = 75 Degrees Fahrenheit room temperature when balls were checked = 22.2 Celcius (295.2 Kelvin)



P1 = 12.5 PSI (Pounds Per Square Inch)



276.9/295.2 * 12.5 = 11.7 PSI (Playing Time Pressure)
 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
63. Playing time temperature was 51 degrees
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:11 PM
Jan 2015

Not 39

Because it was so warm at game time, the league has already stated that temperature is a non factor.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
110. Not solid at all. Each set of balls are taken care of by their own team,
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 03:11 PM
Jan 2015

and all the Colts balls were tested and met specs.

Historic NY

(37,449 posts)
13. Sitting out in the cold & depending on when they were inflated...
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 11:18 AM
Jan 2015

how the y were stored can also make a difference. My trucks tires sensors have indicated variations of 1-3 lbs for the last few weeks when we have been having the latest cold snap.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
32. I've read that you lost 1 PSI for every 10 degrees F loss.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 12:09 PM
Jan 2015

When the temps dropped very low a couple of weeks ago, my tire pressure warning sensor started going off. The pressure dropped enough to set it off.

When you have balls that are only 12.5 to 13.5 psi, it would be easy for them to go below the standard just by going outside and sitting for a while.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
61. 30 something below zero temps flattened all four of my truck tires.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 05:55 PM
Jan 2015

I miss Vermont and I even miss the snow, but I don't miss those sub zero nights.


pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
116. The Colts balls also sat out in the 50 degree "cold" weather,
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 03:19 PM
Jan 2015

and yet they all tested in normal limits.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
14. I strongly doubt this was cheating. We need to wait for all the facts to come out.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 11:19 AM
Jan 2015

Access to all the footballs is strictly controlled and the officials are required to check all balls for correct pressure before the game. It would be very difficult to alter the pressure of balls during a game without that being seen.

It is possible balls were given to the officials before the game that were underinflated. That isn't cheating. The officials should have caught that and pressurized the balls to the correct range. If they didn't do so, it wasn't cheating, it was the officials failing at their job.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
19. That's not what I said and you know it.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 11:30 AM
Jan 2015

The responsibility for the balls being the correct pressure rests with the officials. That is one of their jobs. Teams give the balls to the officials know that they will be checked. There was no intent to cheat because it shouldn't have been possible to get underinflated balls into the game.

There are lots of possible, innocent explanations for the balls given to the officials were slightly under pressure. There is no explanation of how, if the officials checked them, that the pressure later was under the allowed range.

We need to find out if the officials even checked the balls in the first place.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
23. Yeah it is.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 11:46 AM
Jan 2015

Because if the Patriots purposely deflated balls below the minimum required pressure, they cheated - whether or not the refs caught it.

PS - The final check by the refs is done 2 hours before game time, and then the teams get the balls back. Still plenty of time to tamper.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
25. Wrong again.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 11:51 AM
Jan 2015

You have no way to know whether they "purposely" did anything. They could have been inflated in a warm room to within the proper range, but on the low end. Then when outside in the cold air, the pressure would have below the proper range.

PS - The ballboys ON THE FIELD in view of thousands get the balls in bags. Any tampering by them would be visible and caught. The balls are never in a place that would be hidden from view.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
27. That's why I said "IF."
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 11:57 AM
Jan 2015

And I would guess it's a lot easier to mess with the balls than you seem to think.

frylock

(34,825 posts)
55. if that were the case, then one would think that ALL the balls would've been effected..
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 02:48 PM
Jan 2015

evidently, the balls used by the Colts were not underinflated.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
75. They are supplied by the home team
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:40 PM
Jan 2015

But they are officially inspected by the officials before the game to assure they are at proper PSI. Apparently all the balls were fine pre-game, but only the Patriots balls were deflated at half time.

Looks mighty suspicious...

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
112. No one is controlling the balls' access except the teams. And I'm sure the officials
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 03:14 PM
Jan 2015

did check the pressures before the game, since they'd already had a tip-off from the Ravens that there was a question about under-inflated balls.

 

hopeforchange2008

(610 posts)
17. Why do the teams supply the balls? Why doesn't the league?
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 11:25 AM
Jan 2015

Total novice question I realize, but I really don't know.

IDemo

(16,926 posts)
24. Someone better than me at Photoshopping
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 11:49 AM
Jan 2015

needs to come up with a deflated SuperBowl trophy image in the event the Patriots win (they won't)

IDemo

(16,926 posts)
29. No
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 12:02 PM
Jan 2015

The Pats likely could have won using balls over-inflated to 25lbs.

I just think that a very obvious and cheap attempt at cheating shouldn't be given a complete pass. That's all.

 
41. then
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 12:27 PM
Jan 2015

you need to see what Rogers and Eli Manning do to their balls. Not to mention what Brad Johnson did before the Super Bowl. He paid $7500 dollars for a guy to doctor the footballs before his Super Bowl.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/brad-johnson-paid-a-bribe-to-tamper-with-footballs-at-the-super-bowl/

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
79. Brad Johnson cheated
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:48 PM
Jan 2015

Two wrongs don't make a right.

No, they don't need to run around trying to catch everyone else. Everyone else is not at issue.

"Everyone else is probably doing it too" is not a very good defense. Also, it is irrelevant to say they would have won anyway, it's a matter of integrity.

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
86. One bad pass, one interception, one failure to convert
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 08:00 PM
Jan 2015

often changes the entire course of a game.

But you knew that if you know anything about football.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
34. And how about
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 12:13 PM
Jan 2015

testing the Colts' balls as well?

Not necessary since they lost, but it would probably squash the whole shitstorm of idiocy if it was found that their footballs were not properly inflated too.


pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
114. They did. The Colts balls all tested within regulation limits,
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 03:17 PM
Jan 2015

despite being subject to the same "weather" the Pats' balls was exposed to.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
113. All the balls were tested inside -- but magically, the Colts balls weren't
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 03:15 PM
Jan 2015

affected by the weather, just the Patriots'.

50 degrees outside isn't exactly frigid, either.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
31. So a player who
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 12:09 PM
Jan 2015

intercepted a ball notices it feels funny. How many interceptions on NE were there during that game? One.

How many times did the footballs get handled by an official after each NE play? A receiver or runner either hands it back to an official or leaves it on the field for an official to pick up. That happened a few dozen times, and yet no official noticed that the balls felt a little strange?

Really?

Also, I find it extremely hard to believe that a Belichick/Brady-led team would think it's necessary to purposely try and tilt things in their favor in their own stadium. Against the Colts, no less.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
64. The refs retested all the balls at halftime
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:12 PM
Jan 2015

so either they are lying about the low pressure or the Patriots did in fact cheat. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
99. What I'm saying is
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 12:15 PM
Jan 2015

that one guy on the Colts team who caught one Patriots ball notices it feels strange, but a whole shitload of officials in the game who are handling the ball(s) multiple times can't tell.

Some of those officials handle the footballs even more than some of the players do.

Yet they couldn't tell on their own?


hack89

(39,171 posts)
103. All the local TV stations are giving people footballs with different pressures
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 12:28 PM
Jan 2015

and asking them on air if they can tell which one is the proper pressure and which one is under inflated. From what I can see it is not as easy as one would think. I am sure a pro quarterback who has spent decades handling and throwing footballs could tell the difference but perhaps it is a lot harder for a non-football player, even a referee to do so.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
115. They were suspicious enough to test all the balls at half-time.
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 03:19 PM
Jan 2015

When do you think would have been a better opportunity?

Yavin4

(35,440 posts)
36. Cheating is cheating. What about the Ravens game? Did they under-inflate the balls in that game
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 12:17 PM
Jan 2015

as well?

dilby

(2,273 posts)
37. It's a shame really because I don't think the Pats needed the deflated balls to win.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 12:19 PM
Jan 2015

But because they were cheating I think they should be severely punished, loss of draft picks, fines and everything else. It's too late to suspend them from the Superbowl and if they do win their win should definitely have a question mark next to it for history to see.

liberalhistorian

(20,818 posts)
44. That's what's so puzzling to me,
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 12:29 PM
Jan 2015

the fact that they likely didn't need to do that in order to win; they would have been good enough otherwise. So why did they feel the need to cheat yet AGAIN, despite being smacked with a half a million dollars fine and other sanctions the last time? It kind of reminds me of Nixon in '72. He didn't need Watergate in order to win; hell, Jesus Christ himself could have run against Nixon in '72 and Nixon still would have won. Paranoia, greed and arrogance are a bad combination all the way around.

dilby

(2,273 posts)
49. Well to be honest, they made the decision to cheat before the game started.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 12:35 PM
Jan 2015

If they would have been down or a close game the under inflated balls would be a bigger deal. But they were ahead from the beginning but even that lead was generated with under inflated balls. I was impressed when I saw how well the Patriots were throwing and catching in that torrential rain storm but now we know why that was.

liberalhistorian

(20,818 posts)
51. Indeed. They should
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 12:37 PM
Jan 2015

have this "win" forfeited and not be permitted to be in the Super Bowl, and BeliCHEAT should be fired immediately. But we both know that that is not going to happen.

dilby

(2,273 posts)
106. Because the Superbowl is a little more than a week away.
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 02:30 PM
Jan 2015

It can't be rescheduled due to everything already booked and in place. It's also too short notice to just give the win to the Colts afterall the patriots probably cheated against the Ravens too so the whole game was completely moot.

pnwmom

(108,978 posts)
117. Maybe they needed them to beat the Ravens, which they only did by a few points.
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 03:22 PM
Jan 2015

And the Ravens were the ones who first got suspicious about under-inflated balls, and reported them to the league, according to reports.

liberalhistorian

(20,818 posts)
40. Well, there's a reason why he's
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 12:26 PM
Jan 2015

nicknamed "Belicheat" in some areas. Belicheat cheating again, no surprise here. It cost him and his team half a million bucks in fines last time, when it should have cost him his job and a permanent blacklist from coaching anywhere in the NFL. Somehow, I don't think they're going to care about any potential fines from this, either, since it didn't stop them last time. I hope Seattle kicks their cheating, arrogant asses good.

One_Life_To_Give

(6,036 posts)
60. If the NFL really cared
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:52 PM
Jan 2015

Each game would start with 30 brand new balls in boxes delivered to the ref's. Instead of only the Kicking balls being new and delivered to the ref's.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
76. The home team provides the visiting team with 12 balls and themselves with 12 balls.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:42 PM
Jan 2015

11 out of 12 of the balls for the Patriots were under inflated. The same was not true of the balls provided to the Colts.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
83. No, under inflated balls are easier to throw and catch, especially in wet weather.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:59 PM
Jan 2015

Cool, wet weather in Gillette stadium meant that the Colts were passing and catching hard balls that were difficult to hang onto in wet conditions while the Patriots were throwing and catching balls with a little give, making them easier to hang onto in the wet conditions.

onenote

(42,703 posts)
84. except it didn't work out that way.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 07:44 PM
Jan 2015

Last edited Wed Jan 21, 2015, 08:16 PM - Edit history (1)

I believe that Brady during the first half was 11/21 passing for 80 yards with an interception.
In the second half he was 12/14 with no interceptions and 139 yards.

From what has been reported, the underinflation was discovered at halftime and the balls were re-inflated.

onenote

(42,703 posts)
88. No disagreement.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 08:15 PM
Jan 2015

Just pointing out that the use of deflated balls doesn't appear to have given the Patriots an actual advantage. That doesn't make it okay if, in fact, it was intentionally done by or on behalf of someone in the Patriots organization.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
100. It's really
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 12:23 PM
Jan 2015

all a matter of preference for each QB.

Aaron Rodgers has said he prefers his footballs a bit over inflated.



Also, Bill Belichick, in a news conference earlier this AM, said that he makes the team practice with the most miserable feeling footballs he can. Wet, freezing cold, sticky, whatever. He said if the players complain he makes them worse. I absolutely believe him.

If he makes them practice under the most miserable conditions, then there's no need to try and get an advantage by making the balls easier to grip during the game. They would already have experience playing with footballs that the Devil himself would be afraid of.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
101. Bill Belicheat is a known liar.
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 12:26 PM
Jan 2015

It is also known that 11 out of 12 Patriot balls were at 10.5 PSI and that all 12 of the Colts balls registered at 13 PSI.

There was a definite cheat. A $275K fine is in order under NFL rules.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
102. And yet...
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 12:26 PM
Jan 2015

After halftime, when the balls were reinflated to proper specs (and supposedly harder to handle), the Pats destroyed the Colts.

Weird, right?

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
80. I realize that all is fair in love and war...
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:50 PM
Jan 2015

...but I think it's kinda' shitty since the Patriots already had home field advantage.

The cold, rainy weather worked against the Colts. Deflated balls are easier to hold onto, throw and catch. Patriots didn't need to cheat to win but they did.

If both teams had had the advantage of playing with deflated footballs on a cold, rainy day, I wouldn't care... but they didn't. Colts were throwing rocks in cold weather. Patriots were throwing nice cushy rockets. Nothing fair about that scenario.

Patriots are a good team. No, they're a GREAT team...but they still cheat like they've got the mob in their back pocket. It detracts from their legacy.

Who would possibly want the 'cheaters' to win the Super Bowl now?... Hmmm…let me think... Maybe this was a calculated setup, made by bad guys in Vegas to try to control the Super Bowl outcome. I imagine Deflategate has already affected the odds…

I don't doubt that the Patriots cheated... I'm just surprised that they got caught. Most anyone WOULD cheat if they knew how and thought they could get away with it. That's just the nature of business in the real world of corporate America. It's a dog eat dog world… Just don't get caught.

Patriots have been finding ways to give themselves an advantage since the jump. Colts should've had their own cheat plan if they wanted to have any hope of winning the championship game against the number one, 'whatever it takes' Patriots.

I'm not surprised that the Patriots deflated their footballs on a cold and rainy day. I'm more surprised that the Colts didn't follow suit...

My 2 cents.

TYY

(Cross posted from Will Pitt's Deflategate post in the Sports Group.)

onenote

(42,703 posts)
96. Brady: 11/21, 80 yards first half. 12/14 139 yards second half
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 08:10 AM
Jan 2015

If it's shown that anyone in or connected to the Patriots organization tampered with the balls, there should be fines meted out. But the penalty should be commensurate with the harm caused by the violation, which is why those claiming that the Pats should be booted from the Super Bowl are wrong.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
105. If this were
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 12:35 PM
Jan 2015

the Oakland Raiders being accused of "cheating", we'd never hear much about it.


Even if they were caught red-handed, nobody cares if a loser cheats.

That's pretty much being borne out by the seeming non-reaction to revelations that other QBs/teams also messed around with the air in their footballs.


But let even a sniff of a rumor come out about a winning team, with no proof as to how it happened, and the sharks circle around the drop of blood in the water.

In any case, it'll be interesting to see what happens after the Superbowl is over.

If NE wins, some will say they cheated. If NE loses, some will say they deserved it for "cheating".

Pisces

(5,599 posts)
93. The only deterrent would be to take away Superbowl. What kind of message are we sending to
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 10:00 PM
Jan 2015

kids, the rest of the NFL. People get fired from jobs, kicked out of school, kicked out of their marriages for cheating.
There is a bigger message than using some deflated balls. If the NFL had any balls at all they would give Superbowl to
the Colts, end of story.

onenote

(42,703 posts)
95. except the league already has specified the penalty
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 08:06 AM
Jan 2015

The league's rules provide for a $25K fine, which is a pretty good indication that they don't regard it as a serious violation (after all, each winning player in the Super Bowl stands to earn over $90K for the win alone, and the value to the team and to the players in future contracts and endorsements is huge).

I suppose going forward the league might change its rule, but its more like to change it to put the officials in charge of the balls.

Would barring a team that tampers with the game balls from the Super Bowl be a deterrent? Sure, but I can think of an endless list of harsh penalties that could be applied to those who violate the law in every day life that would be a deterrent but that no one would support.

Paladin

(28,262 posts)
107. Chris Hayes: Bill Belichick is the Richard Nixon of football coaches.
Thu Jan 22, 2015, 02:50 PM
Jan 2015

Nixon didn't need those clumsy burglars to bust into the Watergate offices---there was never any doubt that Nixon was going to mop up the floor with McGovern in 1972. Similarly, the Pats would have prevailed in that game last Sunday without any hanky-panky being performed on the footballs. Thanks for the oh-so-apt analogy, Chris.

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