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CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 03:26 PM Jan 2015

I don't know what to do…So I'm asking, "What would you do?"

What would you do if you had memories of being molested by your father, his police-officer friend and a well-known man in the community who owned a bar/motel that was notorious for being involved in organized crime and operated as a strip bar and house of prostitution for years?

What would you do if you reported these crimes--and other possible crimes--to your hometown police department (where the police officer was employed) and nothing was done?

Then, what would you do, if you months later you discovered a victim (much like yourself) who was also molested by a different police officer from the same department. At the time of the molestation, this victim was a juvenile "in the system" and was alone and vulnerable. When she was told to pick up the keys to her new apartment, she was told by social services to get them from a bar--owned by the man who was widely known to be involved in organized crime. And sitting by his side, was the police officer who walked her to her apartment and molested her. He would do this many times, often hoisting himself up to her second-floor balcony, climbing in and molesting her.

What would you do if she told you the name of this police officer who did this--and you recognized his name. He was the Chief of Police in the police department--when you had reported that your father and his friend--one of their officers, had molested you. And you remembered that nothing was done.

What would you do if you confronted your father and he admitted to knowing and dealing with this organized-crime man--and also taking you to the motel and bar repeatedly? Your memories match up with being molested--by multiple people in an organized ring, including police officers.

What would you do if you consulted a friend who worked in your state's attorney general's office about all of this--because you're wondering what in the hell you should do? She tells you that something has been "off" in this town for years, but the people in her office can't seem to figure it out.

What would you do if this friend also tells you that one of the attorney generals reveals to her that a former Chief of Police from this town currently runs a non-profit that helps juveniles who are "in the system". This organization keeps track of kids, helps them find jobs and works with their schools to organize their schedules. Basically, they've got control over many aspects of these kids' lives.

And what would you do if your friend in the AG's office told you that the former Chief of Police who runs this non-profit employed a second-in-command (an executive director) who was found with child porn on his computer--and nothing was ever done. It was never reported. This Executive Director--this second in command is also a state senator. This is a state judicial office running this non-profit to help CHILDREN. And the second in command is found with child porn, and never held accountable?

It appears that there has been systemic exploration of kids happening for years. I'm only one person. I can't take holding onto all of this any longer. Who do you turn to when you don't know who to trust? Who do you turn to when you don't know who the good guys or the bad guys are?

What would you do?

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I don't know what to do…So I'm asking, "What would you do?" (Original Post) CoffeeCat Jan 2015 OP
Man oh man...what to say...an investigative reporter maybe? I dunno. ret5hd Jan 2015 #1
Thanks for your response... CoffeeCat Jan 2015 #3
That is the way to go! bobGandolf Jan 2015 #17
You went to the State now go to the FEDs. Keep careful records and have them on hand when you Vincardog Jan 2015 #20
What an awful situation! I don't know what I'd do, The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2015 #2
Thank you for the suggestion... CoffeeCat Jan 2015 #4
Unfortunately, what you describe is a situation in which your chances for success are pretty slim. Bad Granny Jan 2015 #5
I wouldn't give up just yet, or assume that no recourse is possible. The Velveteen Ocelot Jan 2015 #6
At this point, I would just settle for the truth... CoffeeCat Jan 2015 #12
People who care about you are not "burdened" by you - only by what happened and continues to happen Bad Granny Jan 2015 #18
Hire as PI and DOCUMENT that this is still going on. Get a sleaze ball who is used to getting divor Vincardog Jan 2015 #21
I would out every last rotten egg in the carton!!!!! mstinamotorcity2 Jan 2015 #7
Thank you for your…. CoffeeCat Jan 2015 #16
This is very subtle for me. mstinamotorcity2 Jan 2015 #22
((((((coffeecat))))) I have no answers, but keeping this kicked for visibility and hoping others niyad Jan 2015 #8
call the FBI G_j Jan 2015 #9
Go to the press or the feds. jeff47 Jan 2015 #10
K&R, and the Greatest Page for you. n/t CaliforniaPeggy Jan 2015 #11
Go to the media. dilby Jan 2015 #13
What an awful memory to have. MineralMan Jan 2015 #14
A couple of things. NCTraveler Jan 2015 #15
The details that I outlined in my post... CoffeeCat Jan 2015 #23
I'd wonder what you were doing in Grand Marais, Minnesota. Brickbat Jan 2015 #19
I'm not in Minnesota, and didn't grow up there... CoffeeCat Jan 2015 #25
Yeah, I know you're not here. I just was struck by the similarities. Brickbat Jan 2015 #28
I would google to find similar cases starroute Jan 2015 #24
Crack it open via the media -- Hell Hath No Fury Jan 2015 #26
Go to the FBI, they have an entire division for cases like these. stevenleser Jan 2015 #27
Many have suggested that I go to the FBI--This is why I haven't... CoffeeCat Jan 2015 #29
He is likely in a different department within the FBI and doesnt know about cases like this. stevenleser Jan 2015 #30
I'd call the National Child Abuse Hotline and see if they can direct you. herding cats Jan 2015 #31
There WILL be hard evidence on their personal computers. bvar22 Jan 2015 #32

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
3. Thanks for your response...
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 03:40 PM
Jan 2015

I have steered away from that, as I have no proof, other than what I experienced in childhood--and what the other survivor has told me. She has no proof either. She refuses to come forward to anyone. She is terrified of these people and she fears for her life and the life of her family members.

I don't remember clearly most of these men. I was so young. She does though and was terrified that I wanted to put an ad in the local paper, asking for more victims to come forward. I decided to honor her wishes and not do so.

I appreciate your response. This has been a nightmare.

bobGandolf

(871 posts)
17. That is the way to go!
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:18 PM
Jan 2015

An an investigative reporter has the ability to get these beasts exposed. You are too vulnerable.

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
20. You went to the State now go to the FEDs. Keep careful records and have them on hand when you
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:29 PM
Jan 2015

Go to the investigative reporter and write your BOOK/SCREENPLAY.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,718 posts)
2. What an awful situation! I don't know what I'd do,
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 03:37 PM
Jan 2015

except maybe if I could afford it I'd hire a good private investigator and a very tough attorney and go after these people in civil court. Considering that everybody in the local criminal justice system seems to be either aware of what has been going on or is actually involved in it, you probably can't get any help there. But a good lawyer might be able to suggest something. One lawyer, a guy named Jeff Anderson, is largely responsible for revealing the child molestation scandal in the Catholic Church and getting help for his clients. You need somebody like that.

Good luck.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
4. Thank you for the suggestion...
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 03:45 PM
Jan 2015

I wondered about an attorney.

I think if the legal route was taken, it would take a united front from myself, the other victim and my friend who works in the AG's office. I don't' think I could do this alone.

My coming forward before has done nothing. If there is systemic and widespread corruption--one person is not going to change anything, especially when I am dealing with childhood memories from long ago, some of them fragmented. I don't know the whole story. That is how this all started--me wanted to understand what happened to me as a child.

I found a lot more than I wanted. It's a burden carrying all of this around.

I am doing very well though. Two great kids, a supportive husband, an amazing therapist and friends who support me. Most everyone around me is mystified about what to do about this.

I wish I could just move on. However, I feel that I know things that should not be kept secret. What if other kids are being hurt?

Thanks again.

 

Bad Granny

(28 posts)
5. Unfortunately, what you describe is a situation in which your chances for success are pretty slim.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 03:52 PM
Jan 2015

Youy are going up against powerful men with powerful resources at their command.

Even if you had proof/video/confessions - it is likely that nothing would be done.

What you are facing is nothing that women have not been dealing with for EVER.

You will have no success following legal means - lawsuit, charges, etc.

My suggestion would be to go "off-record" and deal with the situation privately, using means and methods not in the realm of "official" responses.

Justice, by any means necessary.

And protect yourself.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,718 posts)
6. I wouldn't give up just yet, or assume that no recourse is possible.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 03:58 PM
Jan 2015

In my previous post I referenced the successful lawsuits against the Catholic Church, a very powerful and wealthy organization. It will be difficult, yes; and success is not guaranteed, but I think it's important for people who have been damaged by these kinds of crimes to try to get some justice. In some states the statute of limitation may have run but in others there are exceptions for crimes involving child abuse. I don't think the OP should give up without at least consulting an attorney.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
12. At this point, I would just settle for the truth...
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:11 PM
Jan 2015

I completely understand that no one is going to be convicted. I gave up that fantasy long ago. And I do not want to sue in civil court. I have no proof. It is my word against theirs.

What I do want is to heal. What began as an attempt to heal from my own childhood trauma, has turned into a complex saga. I never could have imagined what I have learned. I thought I was the only victim. It turns out that the open prostitution was being run with girls who were in the juvenile-justice system. I never imagined that this ugliness existed.

I don't want this. But I have it.

And it helps to hear that other women have been facing this "for EVER" as you said. Of course, I am not happy that other women suffer or are the victims of sex crimes. It's shameful and unacceptable. However, I have felt very alone on this journey. I first found the other victim seven years ago. It's been a long haul. I continued investigating and found so much data about my hometown, the corruption in the PD and other women who were victims.

I want to put this behind me. I want to be able to move on. However, I feel as if I am carrying a whole state's worth of baggage. I want to set it down. It's really not mine to carry.

For my own peace, of mind--I would just like to know what the truth is.

I'm sorry that I'm rambling. I really don't speak about this much. I'm tired of burdening my friends, husband and others. It's very hard when you--honestly and seriously--don't know where to turn.

Again, thank you for your insight. It helped.

 

Bad Granny

(28 posts)
18. People who care about you are not "burdened" by you - only by what happened and continues to happen
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:20 PM
Jan 2015

to you.
The "truth" is what you say it is. Do not let anyone convince you otherwise.

As for my advice - I am just too damn old and fed up to put up with shit like this.
Lawsuits and charges (which you say are not your goals) will almost assuredly fail anyway.

I do not have a lot of time left, so I have less incentive to go "careful" and more willingness to seek some old-fashioned revenge. How you do that is up to you. Be sure to carefully calculate your plan of action, and then execute it with dispatch, directness, and absolutely no guilt.

Do not let it (revenge) take over your life, but a little "stress release" (however that is accomplished) will do wonders.

But again, protect yourself.

Vincardog

(20,234 posts)
21. Hire as PI and DOCUMENT that this is still going on. Get a sleaze ball who is used to getting divor
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:33 PM
Jan 2015

Divorce evidence. Also get some child porn off their PCs.
This type of FILTH does not quit until jailed.

mstinamotorcity2

(1,451 posts)
7. I would out every last rotten egg in the carton!!!!!
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 03:59 PM
Jan 2015

I would find an attorney who specializes in Women's rights and get a reputable reporter and let them have it. because even if they don't face charges, their Reputations will forever be tainted. And you can believe some Mothers will pull their children out of those programs and start questioning their children. Pedophiles and child predators don't stop until they are caught or dead. Its usually the later. They have taken their power and Control and inflicted on the vulnerable. Time to no longer be Vulnerable. They have already taken part of your life with the abuse, shame, stress, anger, hurt, and sense of security. Maybe they should feel what its like to be in that position. Maybe they don't serve a day. Maybe their is a child who needs to know that other people know what they are doing. Maybe they are being molested right now. For Real, what's the chances they have stopped if nobody has come forward. Somebody might have a case. Others may gain the strength to come forward. And even if they don't, good news travels fast but bad news travels faster!!! Light they ASS up with the truth!!!! It will stand solid!!! Get into a good Sexual Assault counseling program so you can have the support of people like you!! Don't give into fear anymore, its what allows them to live in secrecy!!!

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
16. Thank you for your….
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:18 PM
Jan 2015

…outrage. I have the same outrage and I try to balance it all, just to stay sane.

I agree with everything you said.

Secrets only help the perpetrators. At the end of the day, all we can do is our best and try to do the right thing. That's easier when others understand, like you.

Thank you so much.

mstinamotorcity2

(1,451 posts)
22. This is very subtle for me.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:33 PM
Jan 2015

Now if you want some outrage, Let's kick they ass. I am good with that too. I got a couple dollars for bail I just think that they need to understand the depth of what they do to the young developing mind. It makes you distrust everyone including yourself. It leaves you with a stench you can smell in your sleep. It causes tears on a beautiful sunny day. No, today you no longer have to carry this and feel as though no one's listening. Some of us hear you loud and clear. And if truth be told, most girls by the time they are 12 years old have been approached by an adult with other intentions. They may not know it at the time but as they got older they figured it out. Or they felt weird when ever a certain person was around and looked at them or touched them in a funny way. Or just made them feel plain creepy.

niyad

(113,318 posts)
8. ((((((coffeecat))))) I have no answers, but keeping this kicked for visibility and hoping others
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:05 PM
Jan 2015

can come up with more ideas to help.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
10. Go to the press or the feds.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:09 PM
Jan 2015

Keeping the secret:
1) Hurts you.
2) Opens you to danger - making sure you never reveal it via violence is possible.

Dump everything you have on someone who will hopefully do something about it. Federal authorities, politicians from the opposing party, or a news organization or reporter who is looking to "make a mark".

And if your first "dump" doesn't work, keep doing it. Eventually, you'll find someone who makes a big deal out of it.

dilby

(2,273 posts)
13. Go to the media.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:14 PM
Jan 2015

Your local paper and news stations, even the local zine. Someone will pickup the story and do the investigation and maybe find more victims. We had a similar case here in Oregon where the statute of limitations expired but it was still run in the paper. In your circumstance it might bring more victims forward and maybe you can get one that is still within the statute of limitations.

http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2011/01/neil_goldschmidt_sex_abuse_vic.html

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
14. What an awful memory to have.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:15 PM
Jan 2015

I wish I had a good suggestion for you. The only thing I can suggest is that you share this with someone involved in working with victims of this kind of thing. That person will have a better handle on what can and can't be done with the information. It's difficult and potentially dangerous information, so take all precautions you can.

I'm so sorry this happened to you and hope you can find a way to get it out in the open. Others need protection from these people.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
15. A couple of things.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:16 PM
Jan 2015

First I will say my heart goes out to you and all victims involved. Second, how willing are you to put your real name out there? I ask this because of the trend we have seen over the last few years when it comes to things "similar" to this. Write everything down now. Everything you can remember. Names. Locations. Actions. Everything. Find a media outlet willing to put it out there. It does not have to be a perfect outlet. Some of what you say would have to be verifiable. Not all. But some. If it is what you say, you only know a small part of it. It will get legs and others will come forward. Once one comes forward, two more will then come forward. It has been a very effective tactic over the last two decades. The internet has a way of getting things in front of the right eyes.

I have no right to ask this but I will. Please do something.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
23. The details that I outlined in my post...
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:39 PM
Jan 2015

…are the things that I think ARE verifiable. I have a witness to this other cop (the one who rose to become Chief) molested this vulnerable minor in the system. The other witness in the AG's office was certainly told very significant information.

That is verifiable.

The question is--will these people come forward. I would be willing to do so along with them.

My account of molestation and the things that happened to me--are not verifiable. Any child who has been molested, and decides to come forward as an adult--has no proof. Unless they have a signed confession or some kind of photographic evidence. I have no problem not having proof of the abuse I sustained. I know that I was molested. However, I do feel vulnerable because my memory is in fragments. I have tried to piece together a "narrative" of what happened to me, based on the memories that I do have. It has been confusing. I do not have a linear story.

However, what I have dug up along the way--is concrete. The accounts of others verify that cops were crooked and molesting kids. The police officer who molested me was a vice cop later promoted to detective. He was responsible for busting prostitutes. I interviewed a former employee of my father's and she detailed to me that this cop would brag about busting prostitutes. He was involved in that world.

The man who was organized crime in our town (who I mentioned before) ran his motel/strip bar as an open house of prostitution with no accountability--throughout the late 1970's and 1980's. That bar is often chuckled about on a local FB page. Everyone talks about the prostitution that went on there. Everyone knew about it. But somehow he operated it, out in the open.

This bar owner was sent to Federal prison in the very early 1970's for performing an illegal abortion on a young woman. She died. They dumped her body in a grocery-store parking lot. Although this man was convicted of participating in the illegal abortion, no one was ever charged with this woman's murder. She was never spoken of. I think there were some "good" cops in the early days, who did go after this man. However, it is my belief that the bad took over and rose in the ranks. Corruption became the way things were done.

Without proof of my abuse, I am vulnerable. I could be painted in a negative light, of course. However, I believe that I have stumbled upon the foundational corruption and sick environment that made my abuse possible.

My dad was best friends with this vice cop who molested me. He was also tied to this organized-crime perp. I confronted my father two years ago, and I taped it. He admits taking me to this strip bar.

I don't have concrete proof though! Law enforcement needs proof. I get that. I never expected my father or the cop to do time--based on my initial reporting to the police. So much time has passed. But the initial reaction of the police (total indifference), seemed odd to me.

Also of note is that three girls, tied to this hotel/motel were murdered. Their murders are still unsolved. One of these girls worked at a mall where my father worked. Another girl worked at a different mall where my father has a store. My father was obsessed with teenaged girls--a very warped obsessed to the point of self-delusion. I interviewed one of his former employees who was a teenager when she worked for him. Based on our conversations, he was not only obsessed with teenaged girls, he was delusional about them having "a relationship" when none existed. What I gleaned from my father's former teenage employee--with whom he was obsessed, was really upsetting.

Again, I have no concrete proof of this, but these are suspicions that are grounded in plenty of facts, interviews and circumstantial information that could mean something.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
19. I'd wonder what you were doing in Grand Marais, Minnesota.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:22 PM
Jan 2015
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2012/02/27/grand-marais-older-men-pursuing-teen-girls

Beth Kennedy first heard the stories 34 years ago. Not long after she moved to Grand Marais with her husband and 11-year-old daughter, people in the community told her that older men were pursuing and having sex with high school girls.

"We started hearing about these 20-, 25-, 30-year-old men who were constantly at football games, around the teenage girls, and who somehow believed that it was a great thing to be sleeping with virgins," she said. "And I was aghast."

Kennedy couldn't help but think of those warnings after the December 2011 courthouse shooting in Grand Marais shocked the small town, and spurred a statewide debate about courthouse security. Shortly after a jury convicted Daniel Schlienz of third-degree criminal sexual conduct, he opened fire, wounding three people.

The jury had found Schlienz, 42, guilty of having sex with a 15-year-old girl several years earlier, when he was in his mid-30s. After falling sick at the St. Louis County Jail, he died Dec. 27 of a bacterial infection. The consequences of the shooting continue to unfold in Grand Marais, the scenic town on the North Shore, where Schlienz's conviction and death exposed a rift in the community over a long history of older men sexually pursuing teenage girls.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
25. I'm not in Minnesota, and didn't grow up there...
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:48 PM
Jan 2015

…and that story is shocking, with many parallels.

Mainly, that victims are afraid to come forward and sometimes entire communities can look the other way when it comes to sex crimes against minors. I guess some people think that kind of behavior and exploitation is ok.

The girls involved in prostitution in my town (a town of 100,000) was nearly all in the system. They lived in half-way houses, or like the victim that I found--they were in "reform school" and sent to my town when they were older (close to being 18).

These were vulnerable girls without parental supervision.

I've spoken with many women who came of age during the 1970's in my hometown. Many were approached by this man who owned the hotel/strip bar. He was a very well-known public fixture. One woman I spoke with told me that he promised her that she would "live like a princess." None of them ever did of course. They were exploited at every turn.

I am sure that sexual abuse that was detailed in the article you posted, is not uncommon. It's very sad.

And like others have been saying with my situation. Sometimes it takes just one person coming forward.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
28. Yeah, I know you're not here. I just was struck by the similarities.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:52 PM
Jan 2015

It happens all over. And it's so hard to fight it. Good luck to you.

starroute

(12,977 posts)
24. I would google to find similar cases
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:42 PM
Jan 2015

Find out how they were exposed. What broke them wide open. Whether any particular reporters or people in the legal system were involved.

Also try to find out whether there are any crusading reporters/bloggers in your area who have previously exposed cases of local corruption, not even necessarily of a sexual nature.

It also occurs to me that Anonymous has gotten involved in situations like the Steubenville rape case -- but I'm not sure that's a path to follow. Even if you knew how to get their attention, they tend to be heavy-handed about these things and not entirely productive. Still, it's something to keep in mind as a possible long shot.

 

Hell Hath No Fury

(16,327 posts)
26. Crack it open via the media --
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 04:50 PM
Jan 2015

Find a serious investigative reporter you would trust with such a story -- a level of fearlessness would be required by them to go after the type of people you are talking about. Insist on that reporter respecting and maintaining your anonymity. Give them all the info that you have to date. It then becomes up to them to develop the story further, connect dots, and make the case via reporting. You can always agree to an interview for the reporter in which your identity is completely kept private (voice distortion and silhouetted with your back to the camera). If the info starts percolating in the community there is a very good chance others WILL step forward.

Predators count on people being too afraid to say anything so they can continue their evil.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
29. Many have suggested that I go to the FBI--This is why I haven't...
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 05:02 PM
Jan 2015

My friend in the AG's office told me that she has a neighbor who is an FBI agent. When I told her my story, she said she would speak to him to see if he could give me guidance or even talk to me.

My friend told me that she briefly told this FBI agent what she wanted to speak to him about (child molestation and a possible pedophile ring involving a police department in a nearby city). She told me that after she told him that, he avoided her like the plague. The way she described it--he was obviously ducking her.

I was mortified when I heard this. Completely shattered. My friend suggested that we find someone better to talk with. I was terrified, because I wondered, at that point, if all law enforcement in our state was corrupt. I felt that I had absolutely no where to turn.

I told my friend that I understand---if this FBI agent was too busy or if he felt that a case like this was just too old. I know that many victims of sexual abuse run up against this challenge. The crimes happened so long ago and proof does not exist. It's tough for law enforcement to build a case. Totally understandable.

So, why didn't this FBI agent say that to her? Why didn't he say, "I would love to help your friend, but the crimes against her happened so long ago." Instead, he plays some strange game of extreme ducking.

That was another red flag for me. It made me feel as if there was no hope.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
30. He is likely in a different department within the FBI and doesnt know about cases like this.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 05:34 PM
Jan 2015

Take a look at the FBI main page at http://www.fbi.gov/ and in the lower left corner you see the section "What we investigate". I am not going to claim I am an expert on the bureau at all, but I think like most large organizations, folks in one department probably don't understand much about the work in another department.

On this page: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/corruption on the right side of the screen are the phone numbers to report public corruption crimes. I really think you should call.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
31. I'd call the National Child Abuse Hotline and see if they can direct you.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 05:48 PM
Jan 2015

Explain everything to them and tell them what you've already tried. The odds are they're going to know who to put you in touch with who can help you.

USA National Child Abuse Hotline, 1-800-422-4453.

I wish you the very best of luck with this. Know that you're trying to do the right thing and you could save other children the horrors of abuse.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
32. There WILL be hard evidence on their personal computers.
Wed Jan 21, 2015, 06:50 PM
Jan 2015

Part of this pedophilia sickness is the inability to NOT save these files so they can "enjoy" them over and over. They can't get enough.

Getting to their "stash" might be tricky. A good PI with the right computer skills
or a good hacker might be able to do the job.

I wish there were something I could do to help.

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