How long have the illustrious Patriots been playing with deflated balls?

[pnwmom]

This revelation diminishes some of their luster.

We know it didn't affect the outcome of the last game. But that's all we know.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/22/win-lose-patriots-have-sacrificed-their-legacy/XIYx6wws1NpEn1h82kMtwO/story.html

Like Spygate, it’s not a one-game anecdote.

Did deflating footballs ever give the Patriots an illegal advantage in any of their close games? Did it help them win the division 11 times in 12 years? We know they don’t like to play on the road. In the playoffs. Ever. This great Patriot dynasty has not won a road playoff game in seven years.

Forget about the Colts game. Did a deflated ball make the playing field uneven in any games this year? Did it result in a home-field advantage that they would not have otherwise owned? How does the legion of Patriot toadies defend this?

Belichick has already said he did not know anything about the deflated balls until he was told about them Monday. Could this possibly be true?

[Octafish]

1. And the Seahawks, are they still leading in steroid supplements?

They led the NFL in player suspensions for using Human Grown Hormone in 2010-2013.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/100145/seahawks-lead-in-ped-bans-under-carroll

[pnwmom]

5. Those players were suspended. Will Tom Brady be suspended if it turns out

he arranged for the balls to be tampered with? Not likely.

[hack89]

16. The only drug specifically mentioned at your link is Adderall

why did you bring HGH into the conversation?

[Octafish]

18. My mistake. Link made clear the Seahawks cheat with chemistry.

Here's a bit on Seahawks and HGH:

Former Seahawk describes pressure to use human growth hormone

[mythology]

42. But since the NFL doesn't announce what drug the player tested positive for

all we have is the word of the player (already a known cheater) that they took Adderall and not steroids. They have every incentive to lie about what they got busted for because something like steroids is seen as malicious while something like Adderall or the ever common fertility treatment drugs aren't.

Also no NFL player has tested positive for HGH as they didn't finalize a testing regime for it until this year and the policy has enough gaping holes that only a moron would fail it.

[hack89]

19. 5 players in 4 years, only 2 of which were starters

not much of a competitive advantage considering how many players are on the team.

[GummyBearz]

2. Don't limit it to deflated balls

The patriots have about a decade long string of obtaining an "illegal advantage", which they have been fined for and punished by losing draft picks. Obviously their team culture doesn't care about ethics or cheating, whether that be by deflating balls or any other means. Its sad that they did this when they didn't even need the deflated balls to win... IMO it makes it even worse when an elite team cheats vs. an inferior opponent.

By the way, sea hawks cheat their asses off as well. Look at how many current sea hawks and former players under pete carroll have failed drug tests and been punished for using performance enhancing drugs. The pattern is clear and dates back a long long way.

This super bowl is bill bellicheat vs. cheat carroll for the title. May the best cheater win.

[pnwmom]

6. I agree -- players and coaches who cheat need to be suspended.

Like the Seahawks when they've failed drug tests.

And if there was ball tampering, whoever arranged it should be suspended, too.

[Takket]

59. "The patriots have about a decade long string of obtaining an "illegal advantage"

No they don't.... They had ONE event they were punished for. "Spygate". One. Not "a decade long string". That was 8 years ago.

[Pathwalker]

3. Aaron Rodgers admitted they OVERinflate the footballs for him,

said they usually get away with it. Perhaps he, and the Packers should be punished too. And, that so-called advantage? The Patriots scored 28 points with "properly inflated" balls - 7 points with the "under inflated" balls. Also, why didn't the officials, who handle every ball before and after every play EVER notice? Hmmm....

[pnwmom]

7. The Patriots beat the Ravens by only 4 points. How do you know they didn't win that game

because of an edge due to their deflated balls?

[Pathwalker]

12. How do you know they did?

Do you know how many teams over/under inflate the footballs? Aaron Rodgers admitted his team does - are you as outraged about that? How is that not cheating, too?

[pnwmom]

14. I don't. But the ball deflating practice puts a cloud over every close win they've had this season.

I don't know why Rodgers likes his balls on the high side, but all the balls are inspected with gauges by the refs pre-game, so even Rodgers' balls have been passing the tests. And having a ball that's inflated higher makes them harder to catch, not easier.

[pipi_k]

23. If higher

psi balls are harder to catch, and if Aaron Rodgers prefers his football psi on the high side, then we really need an explanation as to how he's one of the Elite QBs.

[pnwmom]

24. His balls have been meeting regulation limits, unlike Brady's.

[pipi_k]

31. I'm responding to

this statement you made:

And having a ball that's inflated higher makes them harder to catch, not easier.

By your reasoning, Aaron Rodgers, who prefers his footballs at a higher psi, should not have been able to throw all the great passes he did, nor should his receivers have been able to catch them.

A higher psi football does not always equate to being harder to throw or catch.

[pnwmom]

33. One quarterback's personal preference proves nothing.

The reason there are pressure limits is that it affects the difficulty of throwing and catching the ball. And the Patriots were the only ones who were using balls that weren't within the limits.

[Sissyk]

37. For 1/2 of the game.

The second half was regulation balls.

[pnwmom]

40. For only half the game -- because they were caught! n/t

[Sissyk]

47. And, if it's proven they did it.....

they will be fined (and probablly lose a draft pick) as the NFL rules state.

[pnwmom]

50. The rule allows the league to set a greater punishment.

I'd like to know why the league thinks Tom Brady cheating with the balls would deserve a lesser fine than what they gave Marshawn Lynch for not being an extrovert in front of the TV cameras.

I have trouble believing racism has nothing to do with it.

[Arkana]

46. No, it doesn't.

Innocent until proven guilty.

[jmowreader]

28. Overinflation isn't as bad as underinflation

Underinflated footballs are easier to throw and catch, so the inverse - overinflated ones being harder to throw and catch - must also be true. Apparently the refs don't give a shit about a violation that gives no real advantage.

I'd originally thought Aaron Rodgers played with overinflated footballs because he has big hands. Nope:

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/47036/311/exploring-qb-hand-size

Aaron Rodgers' hands, at 9.38", are smaller than the NFL average of 9.6". (Russell Wilson's are really big at 10.25".) He just likes the feel of a really hard football.

Your question about the refs is valid; I wonder what the refs would have done with a too-soft Colts ball.

[pnwmom]

34. The refs tested all the Colts balls and they were all within the limits. n/t

[jmowreader]

38. Yes they were, and that's not the point

Let's flip the sides: what would have happened to the Colts if the Patriots picked-off Andrew Luck and the ball was too soft?

[pnwmom]

39. Who knows? I don't see anything "happening" to the Patriots, do you? n/t

[jmowreader]

53. Not yet, anyway

They aren't going to get kicked out of the Super Bowl over this. They aren't going to have players suspended from that game over this either. I have faith the NFL will spank Bill Belichick's pee-pee over this and tell him in a firm voice not to do it again, then claim justice has been served. So...if pee-pees are to be spanked they will do it between the Combine in mid-February and the opening day of the Draft, which is April 30. This'll give the fans something to talk about.

This will be the second spanking Belicheat is going to receive in early 2015; the first one is going to come courtesy of Marshawn Lynch and Kam Chancellor in eight days' time.

[mythology]

44. What Aaron Rodgers has said the Packers do is submit overinflated footballs to the refs

It's the refs job to make sure the footballs are inflated to the correct level.

In the case of the Patriots, they submitted footballs that were at the allowed inflation level and then either through intentional manipulation of the temperature of the air they put into the ball or by releasing air from the footballs after they left the hands of the officials. So if the referee does his job, Rodgers gets no benefit. The ref did his job in the case of the Patriots and yet somehow the Patriots managed to have the footballs deflate (magically if you listen to Brady and Belichick do their best impressions of Sgt Schultz).

[hughee99]

4. That's a great stat! "The Patriot dynasty has not won a road playoff game in SEVEN YEARS".

Yep, they're 0-1. The lost the ONE playoff road game they played in the last 7 years, last year, to the Denver Broncos. The only one they played in that time. The fact that anyone would phrase this is such a way exposes their argument for the sham that it is.

[elias49]

9. Funny what some do with statistics.

Especially sports statistics....'...lost 3 of their last 7 games played at night while on the road in the last 5 years not counting leap years...'

[GummyBearz]

11. The super bowl is part of the playoffs...

And it is a road game for both teams. Some how I remember the patriots getting their butts whooped by an NFC team with an extremely subpar QB named Eli, in Feburary 2008... making it 0-2 for them while playing on the road in the playoffs in the last 7 years.

[hughee99]

13. Ah, so they're 0-3, all in close games in the last 7 years on the road.

The fact that you're pushing this doesn't really make your argument look stronger. The fact you remember them getting their "butts whipped" makes it look even more like you don't really know what you're talking about.

Which one was the butt-whipping? The 4 point loss or the 3 point loss? Or was it both?

[GummyBearz]

15. The fact that you want to bury your head in the sand when the patriots are disgracing the game

makes your argument look ..... hahah, fill in the blank.

And losing to Eli manning is a butt kicking no matter what the score is. I wouldn't take Eli on my flag football team.

[hughee99]

17. I haven't buried my head anywhere.

I did point out that several people have made arguments designed to obscure the facts (no road wins in 7 years), or have decided to repaint history in a way that makes their argument look less week (the 3 and 4 point butt whippings).

I didn't even touche the idea that the pats won 11 of their last 12 conference championships because of a rule that's only been around for 6 or 7 years.

As far as your flag football team goes, I think that's about where you "max out" on your football understanding.

Enjoy the game next weekend

[GummyBearz]

20. Yea

When you're coming up on 35 years old and not making millions of dollars to play tackle, you take it down a notch and go back to flag football. One day you might understand why.

As for the superbowl... I will try to enjoy it. Bill Bellicheat vs. Cheat Carroll... wonder which one will cheat the most to win?

[Arkana]

48. Right--they haven't NEEDED to play road playoff games.

You know, because they've been consistent 1 and 2 seeds in the AFC for many, MANY years.

[Coventina]

8. Depends on how much steroids they're taking....

Sorry, couldn't resist....

[pipi_k]

10. Most likely

Every game they lost.

Because they were only ahead by two TDs in the Colts game during the first half.


After the balls were properly inflated during halftime, they whipped the shit out of the Colts

So...yeah.


When the balls were properly inflated, they won.

When improperly inflated, they lost.


Also, why would Belichick know about how the balls were inflated? For one thing, he's a defensive coach. You know...he mainly coaches the defense. The offensive coach is Matt Patricia.

And...I'm pretty sure no coach of any team actually lays hands on the game balls, either before, or after, the games.

[pipi_k]

21. Oh, and here is

an article on exactly what happens with the game balls...the chain of custody, who handles them, etc.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/patriots/2015/01/21/new-england-patriots-deflating-footballs-may-not-as-easy-as-it-sounds/22113343/


Of course, Patriots haters don't want to see that sort of thing.

Totally spoils their rather gleeful gravedancing on the team before it's actually known who did, or didn't, pull a fast one.

[pnwmom]

35. Thanks. So this proves what exactly?

That it wasn't easy for the Patriots to deflate the balls . . . . but not impossible.

[pkdu]

22. Someones already done the research...its pretty damning...

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/blog/?p=2932

[salin]

25. I agree - that data is pretty condemning.

thank for the link.

[pnwmom]

27. Yes, I"ve seen that -- it certainly is damning! And yet I've heard people seriously argue

that the reason for their fumbling rate is that the coach will fire them if they fumble.

[SoCalDem]

26. Sports-people are always looking for their "edge"

It may only be psychologically beneficial, but I think most sports players try every little thing they can, and only stop when they get caught.

What I found interesting about the ball inflation thing is this.. 11 of 12 balls were identically altered..

Why not all 12?

It's obvious to me, that the 12th ball was for punting...the only time the other team was supposed to touch a patriots' ball..

That interception allowed an illegal one into the other team's hands

Shame on the officials who touch EVERY ball on every play...for not noticing

What has to happen from now on is for the balls to all be brand new, inflated by officials and HELD by officials..

These QBs are professionals ........they can deal with it.

[jmowreader]

29. What I found interesting is they did better after it was corrected

Could this have actually worked against them?

[mythology]

45. There are separate footballs for the kicking game.

My guess is somebody screwed up and missed one of the footballs.

[Initech]

30. Belicheck is lying if he says he doesn't know anything.

[Major Nikon]

32. Is anyone else amused by the name "Ball-gate"?

[bigwillq]

36. In a division with the Jets, Bills and Dolphins, don't think it was the balls

That made NE win.

[PeteSelman]

41. How long has Aaron Rodgers been playing with overinflated balls?

The "rules are the rules" right? So, whatever punishment Brady gets, which should be none, Rodgers should get the same. So should the Manning brothers, Drew Brees, Russell Wilson and every other QB that sets the ball up they way they like.

ALL OF THEM in other words.

This might be the dumbest "scandal" in the history of sports.

[dogknob]

43. Are we really still talking about football like it is a real thing that matters?

The last time they got caught cheating, it was a loud-and-clear lesson to Everyman: in life you win by any and every means you can afford.

[Dreamer Tatum]

49. How long have the Seahawks been roided up?

The Raiders put helium in the ball in the 70s. Have they stopped?

The Cowboys propped up entire coca plantations when they were winning Super Bowls. Should they be taken away?

The Ravens' defensive captain was a known accessory to murder. Shouldn't he have been punished?

Should I go on?

[pnwmom]

52. The ones that did got suspended. Will a Patriot be suspended for cheating with the balls?

Or is the League too busy fining introverted black players for not being friendly with the press?

[Dreamer Tatum]

54. read his contract. Media relations is part of the job. Tough shit if he doesn't like it. nt

[pnwmom]

55. So is following the other rules, including the ball rules.

Which Tom Brady successfully petitioned to change in 2006 -- to allow the away team to bring their own balls. Interesting.

[Dreamer Tatum]

56. I am weary of repeating that I think he should be fined.

Not suspended, since no one can produce evidence that the underinflation affected the outcome of a game.

"How do you know it didn't" is schoolyard prosecution.

[pnwmom]

58. What difference does it make whether it affected the outcome of the game?

That isn't the standard used when they suspend players for using steroids.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

51. Deflated sounds so technical. How about 'saggy' instead? nt

[Fearless]

57. Why don't you ask all football players the same question